Can we finally admit attrition was a terrible addition to battlefield?

Comments

  • TEXls1
    225 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I’m going to guess 90% of the whines are coming from the console crowd. I have no problem getting resupplied, I see plenty of people moving around the map and get healed and revived by randoms on PC.
  • spartanx169x
    694 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    TEXls1 wrote: »
    I’m going to guess 90% of the whines are coming from the console crowd. I have no problem getting resupplied, I see plenty of people moving around the map and get healed and revived by randoms on PC.

    Its been often said by me and many others that the PC version and console version should be handled separately because they are two different distinct demographics. Aside from that. not sure if you read my post it was a little long. But the main point was the attrition system slows down gameplay to the point its not fun. Getting resupplied for meds and ammo are not the issue. The issue is that it hurts the overall experience because everybody is afraid to get shot and so forth. Again, PC players may enjoy that slow Rainbow Six style of play. But console players generally don't. Want evidence? Look at Rainbow Six player base while good does not come close to the millions that play COD.
  • llPhantom_Limbll
    5311 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Yes, attrition is a bad game design. And I'm saying that since alpha test. But I guess we will "enjoy" it until active support of bfv is over.

    Attrition isn't bad game design by itself. It's attrition in the way it's implemented that makes it bad. Vehicles especially. So many contradictions make it nearly impossible to make sense of anything.
    .
    Lots of other games have attrition-like systems and were executed much better. BFV just seems confused in it's own implementation.

    Attrition would be good if bfv was a hardcore simulator. But for arcade fps game, it's just dumb and pointless addition honestly.
  • aRrAyStArTaT0
    786 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Yes, attrition is a bad game design. And I'm saying that since alpha test. But I guess we will "enjoy" it until active support of bfv is over.

    Attrition isn't bad game design by itself. It's attrition in the way it's implemented that makes it bad. Vehicles especially. So many contradictions make it nearly impossible to make sense of anything.
    .
    Lots of other games have attrition-like systems and were executed much better. BFV just seems confused in it's own implementation.

    Attrition would be good if bfv was a hardcore simulator. But for arcade fps game, it's just dumb and pointless addition honestly.

    That's where you're wrong. BF has never been an arcade shooter. They've always been somewhere in the middle. To classify it as arcade or as realistic are both objectively incorrect.
    .
    It makes sense to add it. But I do wish they would have actually thought about the addition and implementation of this attrition system. With elements of old suppression still being active (you can't regenerate any HP while suppressed), it's hard to justify attrition in it's current state in it's entirety. It makes sense, but I feel like they did it wrong.
  • suffice_ls
    491 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited February 18
    Attrition alone is pretty bent. BUT, add removal of spotting AND 1-frame-TTD on top of Attrition...
    Nope, hurry up and die completely please, BFV.
  • oXGeminiXo
    355 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I don't even notice attrion 99% of the time due to endless supply stations, a slew of mg toting support players who spam it and the fact that every dead person drops it. Health is more obscure but still don't see it having more then the psychological effect if that. If someone camps because they are scared of station then they would just camp because they are scared to get killed. Stat shaming has more to do with ppl camping then attrion. Tanks will be the biggest impacted due to supply depots are more spread out and tank mobility can be kinda slow and assault class will rocket you in nanoseconds so for that I think it makes people play more cautious but you still have to be mindful of ammo. I think attrion is not really that and more of lets make a added layer of skill needed to go on huge killstreaks.
  • TEXls1
    225 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    TEXls1 wrote: »
    I’m going to guess 90% of the whines are coming from the console crowd. I have no problem getting resupplied, I see plenty of people moving around the map and get healed and revived by randoms on PC.

    Its been often said by me and many others that the PC version and console version should be handled separately because they are two different distinct demographics. Aside from that. not sure if you read my post it was a little long. But the main point was the attrition system slows down gameplay to the point its not fun. Getting resupplied for meds and ammo are not the issue. The issue is that it hurts the overall experience because everybody is afraid to get shot and so forth. Again, PC players may enjoy that slow Rainbow Six style of play. But console players generally don't. Want evidence? Look at Rainbow Six player base while good does not come close to the millions that play COD.

    I have Rainbow Six, the pace of play I see on PC BFV is no where near that and no different than previous games.
  • MarxistDictator
    4843 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    The player attrition is basically non factor but it teaches you right away that this is not a game of movement, which is why I find it boring to play.

    But there is no defense of the vehicle attrition for tanks, it is just garbage and forces them to play in a terrible way to accomplish anything.
  • spartanx169x
    694 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    TEXls1 wrote: »
    TEXls1 wrote: »
    I’m going to guess 90% of the whines are coming from the console crowd. I have no problem getting resupplied, I see plenty of people moving around the map and get healed and revived by randoms on PC.

    Its been often said by me and many others that the PC version and console version should be handled separately because they are two different distinct demographics. Aside from that. not sure if you read my post it was a little long. But the main point was the attrition system slows down gameplay to the point its not fun. Getting resupplied for meds and ammo are not the issue. The issue is that it hurts the overall experience because everybody is afraid to get shot and so forth. Again, PC players may enjoy that slow Rainbow Six style of play. But console players generally don't. Want evidence? Look at Rainbow Six player base while good does not come close to the millions that play COD.

    I have Rainbow Six, the pace of play I see on PC BFV is no where near that and no different than previous games.

    BFV is incredibly slow compared to previous titles at least on console. People are perfectly content to stay outside objectives and just kill people. I’m not talking the casual campers. This is on a completely new level. I see often 3, 4, 5 players jockeying for the best angle because none of them wants to move. I clearly laid out in this thread why it’s slow. It’s slow because you constantly have to top off ammo and health which means running back and forth. Take a random shot from somebody? Gotta now back track for health or go ahead hoping for health die and then start the process again. It might not be for you but for a lot of people this is how the game plays. Every time you have to scavenge for health or ammo is time away from fighting. It’s not challenging or fun. It’s annoying like a fly that will not go away.
  • Astr0damus
    2901 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Can someone explain to me what attrition means in this context? I'm familiar with the term, but not in the context how it is being used with respect to Battlefield classes/tanks, etc..
    ===
    n.
    A rubbing away or wearing down by friction.
    n.
    A gradual diminution in number or strength because of constant stress.
    n.
    A gradual, natural reduction in membership or personnel, as through retirement, resignation, or death.
    ===
    OP, are you irritated with the way we gradually regain health by hiding in a house for 1 or 2 minutes? I want to understand your point.
  • Noodlesocks
    2647 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I think it is one of the better things this game has done.
     
    Just need more service stations for tanks.
  • MidriffUrchin0
    113 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    edited February 18
    What attrition???

    Good job you weren't old enough to play battlefield 2, that really was attrition......and nobody cried about it.
  • spartanx169x
    694 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Astr0damus wrote: »
    Can someone explain to me what attrition means in this context? I'm familiar with the term, but not in the context how it is being used with respect to Battlefield classes/tanks, etc..
    ===
    n.
    A rubbing away or wearing down by friction.
    n.
    A gradual diminution in number or strength because of constant stress.
    n.
    A gradual, natural reduction in membership or personnel, as through retirement, resignation, or death.
    ===
    OP, are you irritated with the way we gradually regain health by hiding in a house for 1 or 2 minutes? I want to understand your point.

    The attrition system is the game mechanics for health and ammo in the game for BFV. Partial regen health forcing the player to run to med stations or seek out medics for med packs. Its also spawning with limited ammo instead of a full magazine(this alone has got to be one of the dumbest things ever in a BF title.). not only limited ammo, but smaller magazines for most guns again forcing the player to constantly scavenge for ammo. And not just players but vehicles have to do the same thing. They have limited ammo and must be resupplied. The attrition system is the actual name DICE gave for these mechanics.
  • LeesSummit09
    350 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Only time I see an issue is with vehicles, some have to go so out of the way. But with infantry, when you pull out the hammer, medic and ammo boxes pop up everywhere. What surprises me is the number of times other players aren't building and taking advantage of them.
  • spartanx169x
    694 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Only time I see an issue is with vehicles, some have to go so out of the way. But with infantry, when you pull out the hammer, medic and ammo boxes pop up everywhere. What surprises me is the number of times other players aren't building and taking advantage of them.

    People play BF to shoot people, not build things. Most don't want to waste time building that crap, because its spending time away from the fighting.
  • parkingbrake
    3202 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Pelliy wrote: »
    It made more players passive, the game is not fun. You heal up and a random explosion or a random spray bullet tagged you, taking away your heal.

    This would make sense in a 5v5 game. Attrition in a chaotic game is absurd. I really hope it does not return in the series.

    Same with ammo attrition. I was convinced that this was okay. It's not. It's bad too. You can keep the grenade timers the same but also needs to get rid of that Attrition also.

    I'm glad some of the EZ Mode crutches from previous games were removed, and full auto-heal is one of them. BF is supposed to be a game about teamwork, so play in a squad with a Medic, stick together, work together--problem solved.
  • ZombieGent
    41 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    Pelliy wrote: »
    XxmOss72xX wrote: »
    I disagree. It's a challenge to be sure, but I think it adds another level to the game. Don't get me wrong, I see and understand your perspective completely, I just think attrition makes battlefield more like a battlefield which is why I like the game.

    I disagree. It makes battlefield, fear field. No one really moves. It's also really frustrating when you get BS deaths door to low ticks of hp left.

    It's not making people work as a team. Instead it's doing the opposite. People hiding not doing anything.

    Never seen a team hiding doing nothing
  • Trokey66
    8168 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Pelliy wrote: »
    It made more players passive, the game is not fun. You heal up and a random explosion or a random spray bullet tagged you, taking away your heal.

    This would make sense in a 5v5 game. Attrition in a chaotic game is absurd. I really hope it does not return in the series.

    Same with ammo attrition. I was convinced that this was okay. It's not. It's bad too. You can keep the grenade timers the same but also needs to get rid of that Attrition also.

    I'm glad some of the EZ Mode crutches from previous games were removed, and full auto-heal is one of them. BF is supposed to be a game about teamwork, so play in a squad with a Medic, stick together, work together--problem solved.

    Exactly.

    When you consider all the drivers of a 'passive playstyle', attrition is probably bottom of the list.

    We have, for example:

    Low TTK
    Low spread.
    Low recoil.
    No suppression.
    No spotting.
    For a lot of people, low visibility.

    With the exception of the last one, all these features are what the 'community' wanted.

    Throw in the Church of the almighty KD and it is no wonder that passive playstyle is prevelant. Attrition is the least of these factors for infantry..

    It should also be noted that the 'community' wanted limited ammo for Tonks and on the whole, I agree however, implementation is somewhat lacking.
  • GrizzGolf
    927 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Pelliy wrote: »
    It made more players passive, the game is not fun. You heal up and a random explosion or a random spray bullet tagged you, taking away your heal.

    This would make sense in a 5v5 game. Attrition in a chaotic game is absurd. I really hope it does not return in the series.

    Same with ammo attrition. I was convinced that this was okay. It's not. It's bad too. You can keep the grenade timers the same but also needs to get rid of that Attrition also.

    Its not that bad. I got use to it after awhile
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