Will Net Code Ever Be Fixed?

Comments

  • WetFishDB
    1974 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited February 18
    NLBartmaN wrote: »
    WetFishDB wrote: »

    Lol. You can keep burying your head in the sand and blame your ping all you like... and guess what, you’ll stay just as ‘good’ as you are. I’m looking forward to your next ‘technical’ explanation of concepts you clearly know very little about.

    I play with @The_BERG_366 regularly, his ping in the low 10’s... and he regularly wipes the floor with me and frankly pretty much everyone else on the server. For some reason he can play very well with a ping even better than yours... I mean, surely that’s impossible?! It can’t be because he’s actually... well... good at the game... can it?! :lol:

    Imagine how good he would be with YOUR ping ...

    IKR, without that handicap he’d be amazing. :trollface:

    Imagine what you’d be like with my ping... er... ok’ish??
  • NLBartmaN
    3046 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    WetFishDB wrote: »

    IKR, without that handicap he’d be amazing. :trollface:

    Imagine what you’d be like with my ping... er... ok’ish??

    He now regularly wipes the floor with you, so you have some idea you are able to do something, imagine how bad you would be if you would have that handicap too, then he would ALWAYS wipe the floor with you :trollface:

    I feel happy for you, you get that help so you can think you are ok'ish ...
  • TFBisquit
    1327 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Routing, my friends, Routing.
    Your connection goes through different stations, some are busy, some are not. Ping is just a response timer that fluctuates in ms so quick, you hardly notice it.
    Unless ofcourse it's a big jump. But the routing depends on where you live, there are some big www centers around the world that transit a lot of traffic. And usually the traffic get jammed a bit.
    This also explains why in some servers you have a better feeling.
    German servers are good for me, I have a better routing to them and they have a good structure in their internet.
    Now, to be clear, you're not gonna do 100:0 with a perfect connection, just as a good player still does well on a crappy connection.
    But a good connection definitely brings a better experience overall.
    1 the OHK deaths are a problem yes.
    2 going 5:30 most of the time isn't good
    Try tweaking your settings so fps stays constant and above 60. Take a slower approach ingame. Sneak some more, camp some more.
    Goodluck.
  • diagoro
    1530 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    NLBartmaN wrote: »
    WetFishDB wrote: »

    More like some people need to find an excuse for their performance, and will clutch at whatever straw is nearest. Ps, not aimed at you BFB... Bartman’s been using this excuse for a long time, and humiliated himself a few times on this subject on the BF1 threads.

    Lots of complaints, mostly from console players with ping under 15-20ms, but offcourse players that have the perfect beneficial mid 20 ping see that as an excuse ...

    Totally not aimed at someone specific, just general talk ...

    I think the optimal latency is about 40. Anything below seems to struggle with the lag compensation, whereas those above lag a bit.

    We should really stop the juvinile "get good" talk, as it's just a snarky way to troll. There's a huge number of playets reporting the same experience, myself included. I can do great on servers without a 100+ player. But add one or two, and the game suffers incrementally.

    Dice tried ping limits for a week in BF1, than jumped back after high latency players complained (much like they did with ttk). They won't do it sgain, or buy proper servers etc. It's just a fact of life with BF, that has plagued every gen of this game.
  • NLBartmaN
    3046 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    diagoro wrote: »

    I think the optimal latency is about 40. Anything below seems to struggle with the lag compensation, whereas those above lag a bit.

    We should really stop the juvinile "get good" talk, as it's just a snarky way to troll. There's a huge number of playets reporting the same experience, myself included. I can do great on servers without a 100+ player. But add one or two, and the game suffers incrementally.

    Dice tried ping limits for a week in BF1, than jumped back after high latency players complained (much like they did with ttk). They won't do it sgain, or buy proper servers etc. It's just a fact of life with BF, that has plagued every gen of this game.

    Maybe they should add it to the system requirements next to the graphics card and cpu: must have above 20 ping for acceptable experience and above 40 ping for normal experience?
  • BFB-LeCharybdis
    745 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    diagoro wrote: »
    NLBartmaN wrote: »
    WetFishDB wrote: »

    More like some people need to find an excuse for their performance, and will clutch at whatever straw is nearest. Ps, not aimed at you BFB... Bartman’s been using this excuse for a long time, and humiliated himself a few times on this subject on the BF1 threads.

    Lots of complaints, mostly from console players with ping under 15-20ms, but offcourse players that have the perfect beneficial mid 20 ping see that as an excuse ...

    Totally not aimed at someone specific, just general talk ...

    I think the optimal latency is about 40. Anything below seems to struggle with the lag compensation, whereas those above lag a bit.

    We should really stop the juvinile "get good" talk, as it's just a snarky way to troll. There's a huge number of playets reporting the same experience, myself included. I can do great on servers without a 100+ player. But add one or two, and the game suffers incrementally.

    Dice tried ping limits for a week in BF1, than jumped back after high latency players complained (much like they did with ttk). They won't do it sgain, or buy proper servers etc. It's just a fact of life with BF, that has plagued every gen of this game.

    Agree 'Git Gud' lowers the discussion. @diagoro your sweet spot is 40? What platform do you play on and what region?

    In regard to ping capped servers it's been mentioned many times, just set aside the necessary ping unlocked servers so OOR and friends can play together. They did it with the 'Core' and '1+ bullet' (good times) so it shouldn't be outside the realms of possibility.
  • diagoro
    1530 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    diagoro wrote: »
    NLBartmaN wrote: »
    WetFishDB wrote: »

    More like some people need to find an excuse for their performance, and will clutch at whatever straw is nearest. Ps, not aimed at you BFB... Bartman’s been using this excuse for a long time, and humiliated himself a few times on this subject on the BF1 threads.

    Lots of complaints, mostly from console players with ping under 15-20ms, but offcourse players that have the perfect beneficial mid 20 ping see that as an excuse ...

    Totally not aimed at someone specific, just general talk ...

    I think the optimal latency is about 40. Anything below seems to struggle with the lag compensation, whereas those above lag a bit.

    We should really stop the juvinile "get good" talk, as it's just a snarky way to troll. There's a huge number of playets reporting the same experience, myself included. I can do great on servers without a 100+ player. But add one or two, and the game suffers incrementally.

    Dice tried ping limits for a week in BF1, than jumped back after high latency players complained (much like they did with ttk). They won't do it sgain, or buy proper servers etc. It's just a fact of life with BF, that has plagued every gen of this game.

    Agree 'Git Gud' lowers the discussion. @diagoro your sweet spot is 40? What platform do you play on and what region?

    In regard to ping capped servers it's been mentioned many times, just set aside the necessary ping unlocked servers so OOR and friends can play together. They did it with the 'Core' and '1+ bullet' (good times) so it shouldn't be outside the realms of possibility.

    I'm on xbox. Came up with 40 after reading all various threads, and personal experience. I generally am at 30, and can't seem to get to 40. US West servers I'm 20s, US East get me to 30, anywhere else I'm 90+., and it's pointless.
  • BFB-LeCharybdis
    745 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    @WetFishDB Different opinions are a good thing.
    I did wonder if it's just a placebo effect that makes me avoid low ping servers (UK 10-11 usually) but when I join a game via quick match I know straight away from my first kill/death whether it's put me in a UK server. Everything just feels off.

    I'm not gonna say I don't care about my stats, but it's way more important that I'm enjoying the gameplay, even if I'm doing well. In comparison to BF1 I'm doing far better, but the effort/fun ratio feels off in BFV.
  • WetFishDB
    1974 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    @WetFishDB Different opinions are a good thing.
    I did wonder if it's just a placebo effect that makes me avoid low ping servers (UK 10-11 usually) but when I join a game via quick match I know straight away from my first kill/death whether it's put me in a UK server. Everything just feels off.

    I'm not gonna say I don't care about my stats, but it's way more important that I'm enjoying the gameplay, even if I'm doing well. In comparison to BF1 I'm doing far better, but the effort/fun ratio feels off in BFV.

    Agree on lots of different points you make.

    The connection itself is way more complicated than just a ping value, and we should all just play in whatever environment we feel comfortable in and there’s no doubt there is still much Dice could improve too.

    Personally, I’m ‘lucky’ that it doesn’t matter where in the EU the server is I rarely have connection related issues, and my performance is consistent entirely regardless of small changes in ping.
  • DieHarder55
    79 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    NLBartmaN wrote: »
    NoQuart3r wrote: »
    Ahh, the age old tradition of blaming your connection rather than your skills.

    What is your platform (console or pc) and ping?

    PS4, ping constant 21 every time I check.
  • DieHarder55
    79 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    If you're constantly going 5-30, then its mostly your fault.

    Say what you want but when I can't even raise my gun completely on a player just running towards me and they kill me, it's not me.

    They already seen me, stopped and fired off their rounds as I am just bring in my weapon up. Get the one hit kill sound.

    Quite a consistent thing on most servers I play. I don't claim to be a great player but I am a break even one.
  • MrCamp121
    468 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I havent had too many issues since the patch other than being absolutely shredded by a gunner on a tank...which should really be expected with what i assume is a .50 cal hmg..but other than that, its been ok on my end
  • diagoro
    1530 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    If you're constantly going 5-30, then its mostly your fault.

    Say what you want but when I can't even raise my gun completely on a player just running towards me and they kill me, it's not me.

    They already seen me, stopped and fired off their rounds as I am just bring in my weapon up. Get the one hit kill sound.

    Quite a consistent thing on most servers I play. I don't claim to be a great player but I am a break even one.

    Aside from netcode, also consider your positioning. I have an issue at times, where switching game modes means I forget where the other side might come from. I'm also slower/older, and can no longer run and gun. I try to stay in areas where I can control the angles snd paths they come from.

    Thst said, I still get package damage and killed by the first bullet. There is an intrinsic problem with the game, one the last patch failed to fix.
  • ackers75
    2275 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    The netcode is working as intended.
    The problem is lag compensation.
    As the game gets older am sure dice will say in future patches that they are improving it but the reality is they are just adjusting the lag compensation down!
  • WetFishDB
    1974 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    ackers75 wrote: »
    The netcode is working as intended.
    The problem is lag compensation.
    As the game gets older am sure dice will say in future patches that they are improving it but the reality is they are just adjusting the lag compensation down!

    I’m not sure what you think lag compensation is, but you don’t turn it up or down.

    Lag compensation is a completely necessary means for online gameplay for games like this. Everyone connecting to a server has different ‘lag’ to that server. It takes time for any movement on a players client being received by the server, and then more time for the server to then share that update to every other client. Every single person on that server is ALWAYS seeing historical positions for every single other person on that server.

    If you didn’t have any lag compensation, you’d shoot at someone you see on the screen, but because the server knows they aren’t there any more it registers a miss. All the time. You’d have to guess where the server thought they were. If they were running from left to right you’d have to lead your shot (shoot ahead of them). But because you wouldn’t know their specific ‘lag’ (or potentially yours) so you wouldn’t know how far ahead you’d need to lead and so you’d have to constantly fire into blank space hoping to get a hit. In short, without lag compensation the game would be unplayable.

    With lag compensation, for the most part you can shoot at someone you see in your screen and the server calculates whether they would have been there at that time. It effectively compensates for the fact that you are seeing historical positions allowing you to aim at, and shoot the players where you see them.

    Where lag compensation struggles is with things like really high pings, or with high latency variation. With really high pingers the latent position updates can cause simulations to fail (poor hit detection), and/or contribute to feeling like you get hit around corners a little more. Each iteration of BF has been increasingly stricter on when it allows client side hit detection, effectively a cut off for high pingers that limits being hit around corners. Is that what you mean by turning it up or down? As I understand it BFV is stricter than BF1, which in turn was stricter than BF4. Will they reduce that limit? Who knows, but I’d be incredibly surprised.
  • NLBartmaN
    3046 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    ackers75 wrote: »
    The netcode is working as intended.
    The problem is lag compensation.

    It totally is the overdone compensation and simulation part of the Netcode. (probably in combination with servers with too little capacity/poor configuration)

    The fact the game feels a lot better when they add a ping limit, there are no players with ping above 60ms or when you play small game modes with no laggers says it all.

    Also the 30Hz on console for all gamemodes hurts the game a lot for console players.
  • ackers75
    2275 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited February 19
    WetFishDB wrote: »
    ackers75 wrote: »
    The netcode is working as intended.
    The problem is lag compensation.
    As the game gets older am sure dice will say in future patches that they are improving it but the reality is they are just adjusting the lag compensation down!

    I’m not sure what you think lag compensation is, but you don’t turn it up or down.

    Lag compensation is a completely necessary means for online gameplay for games like this. Everyone connecting to a server has different ‘lag’ to that server. It takes time for any movement on a players client being received by the server, and then more time for the server to then share that update to every other client. Every single person on that server is ALWAYS seeing historical positions for every single other person on that server.

    If you didn’t have any lag compensation, you’d shoot at someone you see on the screen, but because the server knows they aren’t there any more it registers a miss. All the time. You’d have to guess where the server thought they were. If they were running from left to right you’d have to lead your shot (shoot ahead of them). But because you wouldn’t know their specific ‘lag’ (or potentially yours) so you wouldn’t know how far ahead you’d need to lead and so you’d have to constantly fire into blank space hoping to get a hit. In short, without lag compensation the game would be unplayable.

    With lag compensation, for the most part you can shoot at someone you see in your screen and the server calculates whether they would have been there at that time. It effectively compensates for the fact that you are seeing historical positions allowing you to aim at, and shoot the players where you see them.

    Where lag compensation struggles is with things like really high pings, or with high latency variation. With really high pingers the latent position updates can cause simulations to fail (poor hit detection), and/or contribute to feeling like you get hit around corners a little more. Each iteration of BF has been increasingly stricter on when it allows client side hit detection, effectively a cut off for high pingers that limits being hit around corners. Is that what you mean by turning it up or down? As I understand it BFV is stricter than BF1, which in turn was stricter than BF4. Will they reduce that limit? Who knows, but I’d be incredibly surprised.
    I know how it works and it can be adjusted!

    Am sure dice can adjust certain parameters within the frame time history
  • moosehunter1969
    1108 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    There’s a lot and I mean a lot going off in BF games. 64 players and all the billions of variables going off at once on the large maps I’m amazed it even works at all.
    You can’t compare it with 6 v 6 games in small non destructible maps.
    For what it’s worth it works fine for me but perhaps I’m nearer a server or something.
    Anyone expecting absolute perfection is not going to get it. Not yet anyway, I’m sure one day the internet will have advanced to provide total lag free gaming but at the moment it’s isnt possible.
    Plus people talking about Net Code, do they even know what that is?
  • ackers75
    2275 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    There’s a lot and I mean a lot going off in BF games. 64 players and all the billions of variables going off at once on the large maps I’m amazed it even works at all.
    You can’t compare it with 6 v 6 games in small non destructible maps.
    For what it’s worth it works fine for me but perhaps I’m nearer a server or something.
    Anyone expecting absolute perfection is not going to get it. Not yet anyway, I’m sure one day the internet will have advanced to provide total lag free gaming but at the moment it’s isnt possible.
    Plus people talking about Net Code, do they even know what that is?

    I have a 9ms ping and zero jitter!
    The amount of times I duck or run behind cover and die is ridiculous.
    When I am behind cover and the high ping player still sees me the shots should be rejected.
    That’s how other games do it but because of garbage server coverage they allow it.
    So I get the poor end of the stick due to other people’s poor connection.

    Sounds fair yeah?
  • parkingbrake
    3202 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    About ready to trade the game. Have a very good Internet connection, yet continual dying to the one hit kills.

    Just went something like 5 to 30 in various Conquest and Domination matches as can barely get a round off using Assault weapons before dead.

    Heard so many complaints about STG44 being too good but I just got it and can hardly kill with it. Dead in split second, weapon type doesn't matter that killed me.

    Time to get rid of Battlefield V?

    Its not a netcode problem. Its the really fast TTK. Start recording your deaths. Then go back and watch them at half speed and pay attention to the health bar. You will see it go down in increments instead of all at once except for the occasional headshot by a sniper. Oh and its not going to change. It is what it is.

    Of course i's a network performance problem, it's a close relative of the problem that gets us "shot around corners" which is also still happening. It gets worse when one player has a higher ping and one a very low ping, the server is making judgement calls on whose shots arrived first and if necessary it's having them all arrive at once. They largely fixed this in BF4 (apparently it was Visceral that demonstrated how to do so) so it is pointless to pretend this is just something that can't be fixed. That DICE has discussed it in terms of network performance and has tried to repair it confirms that.
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