Weekly Debrief

Can we finally admit attrition was a terrible addition to battlefield?

Comments

  • DogRoyal
    102 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Infantry attrition I think is a very good addition to the game. It has slowed down the pace a bit but not so drastically as some say. And if you plan a bit and pay attention then it will not slow you down - that is my experience.
    The earlier countless complaints about hill humping snipers has ceased and I believe they are suffering the most from this.

    I rarely run out of ammo and if you ptfo there are usually always supply stations nearby. Hell, You can even pick up ammo from your victims.
    The medic aspect is fine also. Some pros can’t go on 20 killstreak rampages all the time really isn’t negative in my book. And again: ptfo and you are seldom far from a supply station.

    The tank attrition on the other hand is extremely annoying. You should have at least double ammo to start with.
  • Pelliy
    2228 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    I hope it doesn't return to BF. Don't fix what isn't broke. If it does come back, I hope it's in limited capacity like tanks or vehicles
  • Sir-Smithsonian
    908 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    It is horrible. I spawn in and I am immediately shot then I have to use my pouch just to stand up and I'm hit again. But if I want to wait to heal without a pouch its gonna take a good 2 minutes.
  • xeNizKing
    361 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Attrition for Infantry is fine. But vehicles? Remove it. Burn it. Destroy it. Throw out the window and hope it catches something important on a rusty nail.

    Seriously it should out right go. Remove the attrition system for vehicles and I would be 100% fine with how weak they are currently and I am a damned tank/pilot main.
  • 0SiGHT0
    455 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Let me tell you a little secret about attrition. There was an internal discussion in DICE going all the way back to the days of Bad Company. This discussion was among two sides of devs, one side wanted things to be limited, like ammo for infantry and vehicles and vehicle movements relative to "realism". The other wanted things to be unlimited for the convenience of the player and for the sake of playability, meaning no limited ammo, vehicles are easy to move for the player, among other things. This is all public info you can find on the old Battlefield forums, it was posted by a couple developers who actually used to discuss things with their community openly and argue their points of view.

    Fast forward to today: the developers that had an adamant approach to player convenience and not sacrificing gameplay for things like realism are now gone. Naturally, the people "left in charge" so to speak implemented their ideas and what they think would be a good addition to their title. And Battlefield V is your end product of the aforementioned ideas' inclusion, previously excluded from the great Battlefield games pre-BF4. Despite it having the same name, same developer, and same publisher, this is a very, very different franchise from years ago because the people who design the game are gone. It's a sad fact that I've accepted, and the only hope to a return is getting the old people to come back or to have the new people use the older games as a blueprint for design and higher quality standards.
  • disposalist
    8616 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Can't take you seriously when you don't like BF1. It's an awesome game. Best in the series.

    BF4 was also brilliant at the time. Ok, not much better than BF3, design-wise, but eventually an improvement.
  • bigdippa93
    36 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    it wouldnt be so bad if you could grab an ammo pack off a support player instead of having to spam R1 trying to get them to throw a pack. i’ve even ran behind multiple support players for 45 seconds shooting my pistol trying to get them to give me a pack they looked at me and ran away.

  • Trokey66
    8387 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Can't take you seriously when you don't like BF1. It's an awesome game. Best in the series.

    BF4 was also brilliant at the time. Ok, not much better than BF3, design-wise, but eventually an improvement.

    But he has a website.....
  • WetFishDB
    1989 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Everyone is going to have their own opinion on these things, and it’s clear there’s no obvious consensus. So, my two pennies...

    Infantry attrition would be fine if a) people spawned in with full ammo otherwise it’s just a chore people need to go through to visit an ammo station, b) dead enemies also dropped health packs too, and a bit more ammo, c) there was full health regen without packs (but only after a protracted period).

    Vehicle attrition would be fine if a) planes had to land to get more ammo, b) there wasn’t an ammo resupply station within the safety of spawn (to prevent tanks from sitting back and sniping etc), and c) vehicles could self repair without a repair stations (but taking a protracted period).
  • VincentNZ
    2944 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Yesterday me and my mate ran around for solid five minutes both at 40% health or something, because there was no way we could have had access to a medic or a crate. Mind you, the reason we were at that low health was because snipers took a shot at us from 200m away. Naturally we could not really engage the enemy with that kind of health either.
  • Billydoc1
    519 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Yes, attrition is a bad game design. And I'm saying that since alpha test. But I guess we will "enjoy" it until active support of bfv is over.

  • X_Sunslayer_X
    870 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    Yesterday me and my mate ran around for solid five minutes both at 40% health or something, because there was no way we could have had access to a medic or a crate. Mind you, the reason we were at that low health was because snipers took a shot at us from 200m away. Naturally we could not really engage the enemy with that kind of health either.

    if only medic was more popular am i right?
  • VincentNZ
    2944 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    Yesterday me and my mate ran around for solid five minutes both at 40% health or something, because there was no way we could have had access to a medic or a crate. Mind you, the reason we were at that low health was because snipers took a shot at us from 200m away. Naturally we could not really engage the enemy with that kind of health either.

    if only medic was more popular am i right?

    I've played my fair share of Medic and so has my mate, you can not really force players to. And you know I am rather a fan of the medic right now. My gripe is specifically health attrition, where you might be in the situation of not being able to regenerate for extended periods of the game, even when in vicinity of flags hampering one's own effectiveness. Yesterday I picked up a medkit from a crate just to be shot by a sniper which canceled my heal and therefore made me take my bandage. Complete waste of time. I also had stray bullets cancel my heal, which was really unlucky.
    The issue has little to do with the amount of Medics, it is the abundance of stray damage you take when traversing the map, which can be quite heavy, without seeing any relevant action at all. Mostly it is snipers hitting me from far away and however bad their weapons are they severely hampered my chances in the next engagement. Or an MAA from spawn etc..
  • X_Sunslayer_X
    870 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    Yesterday me and my mate ran around for solid five minutes both at 40% health or something, because there was no way we could have had access to a medic or a crate. Mind you, the reason we were at that low health was because snipers took a shot at us from 200m away. Naturally we could not really engage the enemy with that kind of health either.

    if only medic was more popular am i right?

    I've played my fair share of Medic and so has my mate, you can not really force players to. And you know I am rather a fan of the medic right now. My gripe is specifically health attrition, where you might be in the situation of not being able to regenerate for extended periods of the game, even when in vicinity of flags hampering one's own effectiveness. Yesterday I picked up a medkit from a crate just to be shot by a sniper which canceled my heal and therefore made me take my bandage. Complete waste of time. I also had stray bullets cancel my heal, which was really unlucky.
    The issue has little to do with the amount of Medics, it is the abundance of stray damage you take when traversing the map, which can be quite heavy, without seeing any relevant action at all. Mostly it is snipers hitting me from far away and however bad their weapons are they severely hampered my chances in the next engagement. Or an MAA from spawn etc..

    well you could still say if medic was more attractive to a broader audience moments where this happens would be fewer. as well as revives being more common on top.
    as long as the class stays as contradicting as it is BFV will be a bad game.
    assault has no real drawback that can not be negated by having a basic understanding of the game.
    medic has a hell of a lot more thought required
  • karcyon
    293 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited February 26
    It's cool in theory but you can not force people to play as a team that way if they don't want to and solo players (meaning people that don't play with friends) depend too much on random people. If you get shot and your team decided to once again run in different directions it's extremely frustrating to sit there with 10 health. I might as well be dead already at this point. It's no fun.
  • ragnarok013
    3237 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    hawkseye17 wrote: »
    I've been saying it since day 1. There's a reason past BF titles have a separate core and hardcore modes

    @Hawxxeye exactly and attrition would be an excellent hard core mechanic. I think they should just add the traditional core and hard core modes to BF5 and then do what they did when they removed BF4's full mag dump and make a "classic mode" for those that like the current hardcore lite BF5 mode.

    Have you heard any rumours that they might do this anytime soon?

    @BFB-LeCharybdis unfortunately not, this is just me saying what I think a successful formula for BF5 moving forward is.
  • parkingbrake
    3202 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    What was attrition originally supposed to do again? Increase teamwork? That has unquestionably failed, few people could argue against this with a straight face. Instead it's just made class balance difficult, created issues with healing mid-combat, made it less fun to play solo, and made camping or zerging the default strat for a lot of players. GG

    Playing solo should be less fun unless the challenge of surviving on your own is what you enjoy. We've been told for as long as the series has existed that BF is about teamwork, so if you choose to be a lone wolf then the consequences are all on you, not the game designers.
  • parkingbrake
    3202 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Astr0damus wrote: »
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    I think it is there at a low level, as it seems different times to start regen. I think that has to do with the rate at which suppression is reduced maybe it could be slower. They could increase delay/slow the health restore off health pouches.

    Tanks problem are not the lack of ammo or repair stations it is
    - Not able to build stations while in tanks. This is a team v solo, unfortunately team is not going to happen in BF. I.e. ammo station.
    - Not able to 100% repair from inside a tanks while in the field (was not the issue with tanks in BF1 as you could never out repair assaults DPS this complaint was only be guys that used assault weapons on Infantry first)
    - Are slow traveling to get ammo/repair can be really long. The longest I drove felt like 5 minutes(over a minute) in Panzer IV from the Airfield to B flag on frontlines before even seeing combat..
    - The modular system adds to this making it harder. Infantry can out run a damage tank.

    If those are tweeked even a Tank with ZERO offensive ammo could survive a few hits to reach a station, currently it seems many tank drivers are retreating out of combat if they get hit even once. So most battles are tanks are at full health or near and the currents system does make camping at range easier, so adding more station will enforce this practice not change it. We need tanks to force combat on a flag not disappear for 2 minutes because they got hit. Low Ammo should be the only reason to fully retreat.

    Planes are different as they have a much easier time to escape most combat even with a small scale modular system. You can still maneuver while repairing which tanks don't have.

    ===
    First you were given ability to repair while INSIDE the tank (which I think was already over the top) and now you want the moon too! You want to be able to build an ammo station without getting out of the tank to do so... are we talking about the International Space Station? Oh wait, even they have to get out and do "space walks" to make repairs. This is WW II not 2026.
    ==
    There is an easier/better solution, and that is to incentivize the building of stations by granting the builder of said station residual points as long as it remains and is being used. Once it is destroyed and/or rebuilt by someone else, you stop getting points. And I don't mean ridiculous points.. just something to make it worth a person's while. If I never drive tanks, and I get no points for building tank depots, and I may get sniped in the process--why on earth would anyone build one?

    Interesting idea, make building vehicle supply points more rewarding for teammates who do so--DICE, are you listening?

    I build them anyway, and repair damaged tanks even if I'm not riding in them simply because I want my team to win. When I'm a Medic I throw bandages at every wounded teammate I see too, the points aren't the issue for me, I'm just trying to keep my team in the game. But your suggestion is well taken, more points for building vehicle supply stations might convince some players to do so more often, it's worth trying. Maybe a mod could put this in the mail chute to DICE.
  • parkingbrake
    3202 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    And vehicles, that slow crawl (heavy tanks) back to a supply point only to find it needs to be built is just... ugh. Then if you get out to build it, whoops, Johnny Random just teleported into your tank and is making off with it.

    If you're a lone wolf player then you can expect this sort of thing. If you're playing in a squad that works together this isn't an issue. BFV is supposed to be about teamwork, more players should try that.
    In case you haven't noticed until now, there's a massive gap between what it's supposed to be (concept) and what it actually is (reality).

    90% of randoms/casuals don't even gasp the notion of squad teamplay. They each run off on their own after spawning.
    This game is close to impossible to enjoy without friends on whom you can actually count on.

    I don't know if the number is quite that high, however I agree that the bulk of randoms you encounter will be fairly clueless. One game last night I tried four squads before I found one with guys using mics and working closely together, that was fun even though our team lost. However I don't think that means DICE should just abandon trying to promote teamwork. The only time attrition bothers me is when I'm Assault and need to find an ammo station to reload explosives, but since there is one on almost every objective that usually isn't a big deal. I don't know why more players don't make an effort to build up a friends list and play with a regular crew, it sure makes the game more fun. If they just refuse to do that, well, that's their choice.
  • BaronVonGoon
    6779 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    day old big Mac>BF1. @disposalist
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