Do we have cheaters?

Comments

  • enterBrainer
    86 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    ElliotLH wrote: »
    ElliotLH wrote: »

    That DMR does shoot fast (150rpm or something) but it kind of looks like they simply got the last hit in. Could be wrong though as I didn't slow the video down or anything.

    Modded controllers can't exceed the hard fire rate cap anyway so all they'd be able to do is fire at the max rate.

    Ya, see that is my question. I noticed that the hit markers and the audio don't seem to match up. I counted something like 6 shots audio but the hit markers looked like 3. I believe that rifle should be a 3 hit kill. but you can only see the markers if you slow it down. full speed it looks like I got nailed all at once. Only the audio gave away multiple shots.

    Just blew me away (literally) at how fast it was. Reaction time from him to me dead was 2.5 seconds. My latency has been above 60 always on this game. Not on others. PS4, but this game is bad. I am assuming that the other player saw me before I saw him. I didn't think to hit the scoreboard to compare connection info.

    The ZH-29 is a two hit kill rifle dude - love that gun lol. Could it be the TTD bug I wonder?

    No, he gets shot by two different enemies. You can see that on the hit radar, one from the front and one from the right side.
  • enterBrainer
    86 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    full951 wrote: »
    stiny1838 wrote: »
    would using a joystick for a flying game or a steering wheel for a driving game be considered cheating?

    No because they don't change the way the car or plane handles they are purely for better immersion, using a m&kb does give advantages like faster target acquisition and the abillity to adad spam while you keep your sights locked on your opponents head.

    using mouse and keyboard with an emulators does not change the way character movement handles. MnK does not give the advantage of faster target acquisition. it does not change the rules, it does not change the speed. it does not. give adad spam to any degree more than a controller can do it. it does not change the rules or speed. it does not lock on to anything. there is no aim assist or lock abilities added.

    If you dont disable it ingame there is aim assist/auto rotation with a XIM converter. the console still thinks you connected a PS4 controller.
  • enterBrainer
    86 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Vycinas2 wrote: »
    full951 wrote: »
    stiny1838 wrote: »
    would using a joystick for a flying game or a steering wheel for a driving game be considered cheating?

    No because they don't change the way the car or plane handles they are purely for better immersion, using a m&kb does give advantages like faster target acquisition and the abillity to adad spam while you keep your sights locked on your opponents head.

    using mouse and keyboard with an emulators does not change the way character movement handles. MnK does not give the advantage of faster target acquisition. it does not change the rules, it does not change the speed. it does not. give adad spam to any degree more than a controller can do it. it does not change the rules or speed. it does not lock on to anything. there is no aim assist or lock abilities added.

    It does sort of feel more natural in that instead of pushing a stick to move the reticle to the target you are moving your hand to the target. When I played PC I did a lot better than I do on console. But aside from that (which is totally my opinion) there is no advantage. In fact if you do a real direct comparison of MnK on PS4 to MnK on PC you will most likely find a disadvantage on PS4 because of the driver and firmware lag that is present because you have to have some sort of translator because a PC is designed for those inputs natively and PS4 doesn't.

    At least someone speaks sense here in this pointless discussion. Bad players will always find a reason to blame something for their own incompetence. They think if you use mnk it turns you into super aiming and destroyer god, but they fail to understand that all this mnk does is just emulates the controller input, its pretty much a controller with different layout and mouse, nothing compared to raw input of the mouse on PC.

    yeah, from what i understand is that with the right configuration of XIM and ingame settings u can get a 90-95% PC Feel. There will always be some accelaration issues when using a XIM.
  • enterBrainer
    86 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I cheat, removed the battery from my controller so it aint shaking anymore.

    Mine isn't shaking either but I just turned it off.



    On a side note I might be "cheating" with something else. My R2 button didn't function 100% so I fixed it by putting some extra plastic in there and don't have to push the button as far as before to get the weapons to fire 😉

    you can also set L2/R2 Threshold to 5% in the game :tongue:
  • enterBrainer
    86 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Dinoboats wrote: »
    There are no cheats on current gen consoles.

    The PS4 and the XBONE run proprietary software which means they are closed systems.


    AFAIK, Having an alternate input ( M&KB with Xim ) is not "cheating" as they are usually just mimicking controller inputs and have input lag as a result of going through a passthrough system.

    Something very strange was happening then as this is the first time that I've witnessed something like this so blatantly. I wish I could have recorded it (not sure how on the PS4 being a casual gamer) . I also mentioned in the general discussion forum about a V1 rocket disappearing into the ground as well (like the ammo/medic crates) a few games previously.

    The PS4 autorecords the last 15minutes or so.
    You can access that via the Share button.
  • Vycinas2
    932 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Vycinas2 wrote: »
    full951 wrote: »
    stiny1838 wrote: »
    would using a joystick for a flying game or a steering wheel for a driving game be considered cheating?

    No because they don't change the way the car or plane handles they are purely for better immersion, using a m&kb does give advantages like faster target acquisition and the abillity to adad spam while you keep your sights locked on your opponents head.

    using mouse and keyboard with an emulators does not change the way character movement handles. MnK does not give the advantage of faster target acquisition. it does not change the rules, it does not change the speed. it does not. give adad spam to any degree more than a controller can do it. it does not change the rules or speed. it does not lock on to anything. there is no aim assist or lock abilities added.

    It does sort of feel more natural in that instead of pushing a stick to move the reticle to the target you are moving your hand to the target. When I played PC I did a lot better than I do on console. But aside from that (which is totally my opinion) there is no advantage. In fact if you do a real direct comparison of MnK on PS4 to MnK on PC you will most likely find a disadvantage on PS4 because of the driver and firmware lag that is present because you have to have some sort of translator because a PC is designed for those inputs natively and PS4 doesn't.

    At least someone speaks sense here in this pointless discussion. Bad players will always find a reason to blame something for their own incompetence. They think if you use mnk it turns you into super aiming and destroyer god, but they fail to understand that all this mnk does is just emulates the controller input, its pretty much a controller with different layout and mouse, nothing compared to raw input of the mouse on PC.

    yeah, from what i understand is that with the right configuration of XIM and ingame settings u can get a 90-95% PC Feel. There will always be some accelaration issues when using a XIM.

    Its not even close to 50%
  • full951
    2366 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    full951 wrote: »
    stiny1838 wrote: »
    would using a joystick for a flying game or a steering wheel for a driving game be considered cheating?

    No because they don't change the way the car or plane handles they are purely for better immersion, using a m&kb does give advantages like faster target acquisition and the abillity to adad spam while you keep your sights locked on your opponents head.

    using mouse and keyboard with an emulators does not change the way character movement handles. MnK does not give the advantage of faster target acquisition. it does not change the rules, it does not change the speed. it does not. give adad spam to any degree more than a controller can do it. it does not change the rules or speed. it does not lock on to anything. there is no aim assist or lock abilities added.

    If you dont disable it ingame there is aim assist/auto rotation with a XIM converter. the console still thinks you connected a PS4 controller.

    there is no auto rotation aim assist in online multilayer. there is slow down, it's effect is the same for any user. I prefer it off. but I don't control what anyone else does.

    the ps4 does not think anything. it just knows its getting genuine controller input, because that's what it's getting. if it wasn't getting controller input. the emulators would not work
  • full951
    2366 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Vycinas2 wrote: »
    full951 wrote: »
    stiny1838 wrote: »
    would using a joystick for a flying game or a steering wheel for a driving game be considered cheating?

    No because they don't change the way the car or plane handles they are purely for better immersion, using a m&kb does give advantages like faster target acquisition and the abillity to adad spam while you keep your sights locked on your opponents head.

    using mouse and keyboard with an emulators does not change the way character movement handles. MnK does not give the advantage of faster target acquisition. it does not change the rules, it does not change the speed. it does not. give adad spam to any degree more than a controller can do it. it does not change the rules or speed. it does not lock on to anything. there is no aim assist or lock abilities added.

    It does sort of feel more natural in that instead of pushing a stick to move the reticle to the target you are moving your hand to the target. When I played PC I did a lot better than I do on console. But aside from that (which is totally my opinion) there is no advantage. In fact if you do a real direct comparison of MnK on PS4 to MnK on PC you will most likely find a disadvantage on PS4 because of the driver and firmware lag that is present because you have to have some sort of translator because a PC is designed for those inputs natively and PS4 doesn't.

    At least someone speaks sense here in this pointless discussion. Bad players will always find a reason to blame something for their own incompetence. They think if you use mnk it turns you into super aiming and destroyer god, but they fail to understand that all this mnk does is just emulates the controller input, its pretty much a controller with different layout and mouse, nothing compared to raw input of the mouse on PC.

    yeah, from what i understand is that with the right configuration of XIM and ingame settings u can get a 90-95% PC Feel. There will always be some accelaration issues when using a XIM.

    I guess that all depends on your definition of "pc feel". cuz from a standpoint of its a mouse and keyboard, sure sitting down and having a mouse in one hand and keyboard in the other is 100% "pc feel"

    what I think most are worried about is its performance compared to that of native mouse and keyboard support on pc. it is just as far away from native support as a controller is. because they operate under the same parameters, limitations, rules ect. if the emulators operated outside the bounds of what a controller could do, the emulators would be locked out. everyone seems to think the emulators are "tricking" the console. not true. the emulators are complying by following the rules set by the console and the game. it's as if some people think the emulators gain access or bypass the consoles security systems. that just isn't happening
  • -Antares65z
    1587 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited February 26
    Vycinas2 wrote: »
    yeah, from what i understand is that with the right configuration of XIM and ingame settings u can get a 90-95% PC Feel. There will always be some accelaration issues when using a XIM.

    Its not even close to 50%

    It sounds like you haven't spent much time learning how to set it up. I'm probably at 85% feel of PC and if I spent more time, I could probably get it to 90% - 95% feel of PC. The biggest thing most people don't realize about these things, is these are not plug and play devices. You have to spend a lot of time learning how to fine tune it to your preferences. Their Forums are good and there are lots of YouTube videos to help you out. Just gotta spend the time. There are default configs but those will get you to your 50% feel.

  • Vycinas2
    932 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Vycinas2 wrote: »
    yeah, from what i understand is that with the right configuration of XIM and ingame settings u can get a 90-95% PC Feel. There will always be some accelaration issues when using a XIM.

    Its not even close to 50%

    It sounds like you haven't spent much time learning how to set it up. I'm probably at 85% feel of PC and if I spent more time, I could probably get it to 90% - 95% feel of PC. The biggest thing most people don't realize about these things, is these are not plug and play devices. You have to spend a lot of time learning how to fine tune it to your preferences. Their Forums are good and there are lots of YouTube videos to help you out. Just gotta spend the time. There are default configs but those will get you to your 50% feel.

    I dont use xim to start with. I had it for a month trying it out. The reason why I said its not even close to 50% is because i ve spent 9 years gaming competitively on PC and doesnt matter how you set up your xim, mouse input doesnt feel the same.
  • enterBrainer
    86 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I see quite a few things in here being debated that I discussed in a recent video, i.e. did fortnite ban the xim, are mnk adapters allowed/banned and what developers say. Feel free to check it out, its a long one but pretty detailed. I hope it gives you the answers you are looking


    I watched it the 0ther day. Some interesting bits. Whens part 2?

    At the minute that could still be 2 weeks away, maybe longer. I want to be somewhat competent with the mnk adapter I bought to show people what these devices can do. Right now I am nowhere near that. As controller user all my life, trying to get the hang of a keyboard is not easy. Then there is all these scripts etc, I am still only scratching the surface of what the thing can do.

    Using scripts, for no recoil or whatever, thats cheating.
    just use the m&kb, but no scripts. youll be no better then than the aimbotters en norecoilers on PC
  • Autorotor
    221 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    The funny thing is that 99% of the controller users that cries about mnk doesn't even know how to set up their controller properly.

    Mom! Look at his target acquisition, that's unfair!

    Well, he might just be more skilled than u will ever be.
  • The_BERG_366
    2198 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited February 27
    full951 wrote: »
    Vycinas2 wrote: »
    full951 wrote: »
    stiny1838 wrote: »
    would using a joystick for a flying game or a steering wheel for a driving game be considered cheating?

    No because they don't change the way the car or plane handles they are purely for better immersion, using a m&kb does give advantages like faster target acquisition and the abillity to adad spam while you keep your sights locked on your opponents head.

    using mouse and keyboard with an emulators does not change the way character movement handles. MnK does not give the advantage of faster target acquisition. it does not change the rules, it does not change the speed. it does not. give adad spam to any degree more than a controller can do it. it does not change the rules or speed. it does not lock on to anything. there is no aim assist or lock abilities added.

    It does sort of feel more natural in that instead of pushing a stick to move the reticle to the target you are moving your hand to the target. When I played PC I did a lot better than I do on console. But aside from that (which is totally my opinion) there is no advantage. In fact if you do a real direct comparison of MnK on PS4 to MnK on PC you will most likely find a disadvantage on PS4 because of the driver and firmware lag that is present because you have to have some sort of translator because a PC is designed for those inputs natively and PS4 doesn't.

    At least someone speaks sense here in this pointless discussion. Bad players will always find a reason to blame something for their own incompetence. They think if you use mnk it turns you into super aiming and destroyer god, but they fail to understand that all this mnk does is just emulates the controller input, its pretty much a controller with different layout and mouse, nothing compared to raw input of the mouse on PC.

    yeah, from what i understand is that with the right configuration of XIM and ingame settings u can get a 90-95% PC Feel. There will always be some accelaration issues when using a XIM.

    I guess that all depends on your definition of "pc feel". cuz from a standpoint of its a mouse and keyboard, sure sitting down and having a mouse in one hand and keyboard in the other is 100% "pc feel"

    what I think most are worried about is its performance compared to that of native mouse and keyboard support on pc. it is just as far away from native support as a controller is. because they operate under the same parameters, limitations, rules ect. if the emulators operated outside the bounds of what a controller could do, the emulators would be locked out. everyone seems to think the emulators are "tricking" the console. not true. the emulators are complying by following the rules set by the console and the game. it's as if some people think the emulators gain access or bypass the consoles security systems. that just isn't happening

    you seriously say that an emulator is not a bypass? lol... just lol. do you think that the main focus of a system that doesn't allow plug and play with an mnk is to just conserve the limitation that are generated when working with controller input? you clearly try to define the mean of action as the underlying reason. the intention behind not allowing plug and play mnk is to not allow mnk... not to have a system that doesnt allow unlimited turning speed and relatively small key binding options.
    the whole reason why such adapters even exist is because people want to use an mnk (mostly for shooter games) on consoles as well but the console/games don't feature the option to do that. to BYPASS these restrictions the adapter comes into play. its as easy as that....
    if it was about the system console manufacturers would just integrate a plug and play option for mnk featuring the restrictions of controller input, but clearly thats not the intention. (remark: the intention behind a system is obviously important to take into consideration when talking about "bypassing" it. if we took the system itself then everything that works on that system would not be a bypass by definition which would make the concept of a bypass obsolete.)
    the anti recoil or auto spotting scripts of a cronus max "are complying by following the rules set by the console and the game" as well by this very definition. so theres two possibilities:
    1. you deny that they comply and hence have to change your definition
    2. you agree they comply and hence your argument doesnt hold any value as we can apply it as well to something that is clearly cheating. we can even apply it to the case of someone breaking into someone elses bank account. the "hacker" can argue: "i played by the rules of your security system but i won" and hence he would not have "bypassed" the security system which is absurd (as mentioned in the first remark)
    (second remark: no i don't compare hacking someones bank account to using an mnk adapter on console. i use the hack of a bank account to show that this definition leads to ad absurdum.)
  • full951
    2366 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    full951 wrote: »
    Vycinas2 wrote: »
    full951 wrote: »
    stiny1838 wrote: »
    would using a joystick for a flying game or a steering wheel for a driving game be considered cheating?

    No because they don't change the way the car or plane handles they are purely for better immersion, using a m&kb does give advantages like faster target acquisition and the abillity to adad spam while you keep your sights locked on your opponents head.

    using mouse and keyboard with an emulators does not change the way character movement handles. MnK does not give the advantage of faster target acquisition. it does not change the rules, it does not change the speed. it does not. give adad spam to any degree more than a controller can do it. it does not change the rules or speed. it does not lock on to anything. there is no aim assist or lock abilities added.

    It does sort of feel more natural in that instead of pushing a stick to move the reticle to the target you are moving your hand to the target. When I played PC I did a lot better than I do on console. But aside from that (which is totally my opinion) there is no advantage. In fact if you do a real direct comparison of MnK on PS4 to MnK on PC you will most likely find a disadvantage on PS4 because of the driver and firmware lag that is present because you have to have some sort of translator because a PC is designed for those inputs natively and PS4 doesn't.

    At least someone speaks sense here in this pointless discussion. Bad players will always find a reason to blame something for their own incompetence. They think if you use mnk it turns you into super aiming and destroyer god, but they fail to understand that all this mnk does is just emulates the controller input, its pretty much a controller with different layout and mouse, nothing compared to raw input of the mouse on PC.

    yeah, from what i understand is that with the right configuration of XIM and ingame settings u can get a 90-95% PC Feel. There will always be some accelaration issues when using a XIM.

    I guess that all depends on your definition of "pc feel". cuz from a standpoint of its a mouse and keyboard, sure sitting down and having a mouse in one hand and keyboard in the other is 100% "pc feel"

    what I think most are worried about is its performance compared to that of native mouse and keyboard support on pc. it is just as far away from native support as a controller is. because they operate under the same parameters, limitations, rules ect. if the emulators operated outside the bounds of what a controller could do, the emulators would be locked out. everyone seems to think the emulators are "tricking" the console. not true. the emulators are complying by following the rules set by the console and the game. it's as if some people think the emulators gain access or bypass the consoles security systems. that just isn't happening

    you seriously say that an emulator is not a bypass? lol... just lol. do you think that the main focus of a system that doesn't allow plug and play with an mnk is to just conserve the limitation that are generated when working with controller input? you clearly try to define the mean of action as the underlying reason. the intention behind not allowing plug and play mnk is to not allow mnk... not to have a system that doesnt allow unlimited turning speed and relatively small key binding options.
    the whole reason why such adapters even exist is because people want to use an mnk (mostly for shooter games) on consoles as well but the console/games don't feature the option to do that. to BYPASS these restrictions the adapter comes into play. its as easy as that....
    if it was about the system console manufacturers would just integrate a plug and play option for mnk featuring the restrictions of controller input, but clearly thats not the intention. (remark: the intention behind a system is obviously important to take into consideration when talking about "bypassing" it. if we took the system itself then everything that works on that system would not be a bypass by definition which would make the concept of a bypass obsolete.)
    the anti recoil or auto spotting scripts of a cronus max "are complying by following the rules set by the console and the game" as well by this very definition. so theres two possibilities:
    1. you deny that they comply and hence have to change your definition
    2. you agree they comply and hence your argument doesnt hold any value as we can apply it as well to something that is clearly cheating. we can even apply it to the case of someone breaking into someone elses bank account. the "hacker" can argue: "i played by the rules of your security system but i won" and hence he would not have "bypassed" the security system which is absurd (as mentioned in the first remark)
    (second remark: no i don't compare hacking someones bank account to using an mnk adapter on console. i use the hack of a bank account to show that this definition leads to ad absurdum.)

    everything I said stands. you wanna compair it to hacking and stealing from bank accounts. I'm telling you all it does is give controller input. what's being stolen? nothing. where is the cheating? none to be found. it's player input that follows the rules set by the system it operates on. it controls the controller. you mention there's no plug in play for those perifials. this is the solution for that. and the console manufacturers and devs have noticed the demand. hence the officially licensed mouse and keyboard products and roll out of support that's happening as we speak.

    you have a huge misunderstanding of why mouse and keyboards don't come with consoles. there's more one reason, none of them are to prevent you from using mouse and keyboard because its unfair in a shooter game. one major reason is because they want the console to be the center piece of your entertainment system in the living room. if it came with a mouse and keyboard you would likely not put it in your living room front and center for the multiple digital market places to be exposed to the household. if it came with mouse and keyboard you'd treat it like a computer, and place it on a desk in the corner or a small room exposing it to less people in the house. ask yourself, what is a modern console really? It's A Pay Point. it's like those electric scooters popping up in cities. those are not scooters. those are credit card readers. it's about money and coercing you to spend more on it. got Netflix? Hulu? first party market place for movies? most games have a market place in the game. and the devs just go along with it and make games that support controllers. much like the manufacturers don't have an issue with the emulators, neither do the devs. even the over watch devs who took issue asked for it to be available to all.... well.. what do you think is happening? it's available to all.
  • enterBrainer
    86 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Vycinas2 wrote: »
    Vycinas2 wrote: »
    full951 wrote: »
    stiny1838 wrote: »
    would using a joystick for a flying game or a steering wheel for a driving game be considered cheating?

    No because they don't change the way the car or plane handles they are purely for better immersion, using a m&kb does give advantages like faster target acquisition and the abillity to adad spam while you keep your sights locked on your opponents head.

    using mouse and keyboard with an emulators does not change the way character movement handles. MnK does not give the advantage of faster target acquisition. it does not change the rules, it does not change the speed. it does not. give adad spam to any degree more than a controller can do it. it does not change the rules or speed. it does not lock on to anything. there is no aim assist or lock abilities added.

    It does sort of feel more natural in that instead of pushing a stick to move the reticle to the target you are moving your hand to the target. When I played PC I did a lot better than I do on console. But aside from that (which is totally my opinion) there is no advantage. In fact if you do a real direct comparison of MnK on PS4 to MnK on PC you will most likely find a disadvantage on PS4 because of the driver and firmware lag that is present because you have to have some sort of translator because a PC is designed for those inputs natively and PS4 doesn't.

    At least someone speaks sense here in this pointless discussion. Bad players will always find a reason to blame something for their own incompetence. They think if you use mnk it turns you into super aiming and destroyer god, but they fail to understand that all this mnk does is just emulates the controller input, its pretty much a controller with different layout and mouse, nothing compared to raw input of the mouse on PC.

    yeah, from what i understand is that with the right configuration of XIM and ingame settings u can get a 90-95% PC Feel. There will always be some accelaration issues when using a XIM.

    Its not even close to 50%

    if that is the case, then these adapters wouldnt be so populair.
  • Vycinas2
    932 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Vycinas2 wrote: »
    Vycinas2 wrote: »
    full951 wrote: »
    stiny1838 wrote: »
    would using a joystick for a flying game or a steering wheel for a driving game be considered cheating?

    No because they don't change the way the car or plane handles they are purely for better immersion, using a m&kb does give advantages like faster target acquisition and the abillity to adad spam while you keep your sights locked on your opponents head.

    using mouse and keyboard with an emulators does not change the way character movement handles. MnK does not give the advantage of faster target acquisition. it does not change the rules, it does not change the speed. it does not. give adad spam to any degree more than a controller can do it. it does not change the rules or speed. it does not lock on to anything. there is no aim assist or lock abilities added.

    It does sort of feel more natural in that instead of pushing a stick to move the reticle to the target you are moving your hand to the target. When I played PC I did a lot better than I do on console. But aside from that (which is totally my opinion) there is no advantage. In fact if you do a real direct comparison of MnK on PS4 to MnK on PC you will most likely find a disadvantage on PS4 because of the driver and firmware lag that is present because you have to have some sort of translator because a PC is designed for those inputs natively and PS4 doesn't.

    At least someone speaks sense here in this pointless discussion. Bad players will always find a reason to blame something for their own incompetence. They think if you use mnk it turns you into super aiming and destroyer god, but they fail to understand that all this mnk does is just emulates the controller input, its pretty much a controller with different layout and mouse, nothing compared to raw input of the mouse on PC.

    yeah, from what i understand is that with the right configuration of XIM and ingame settings u can get a 90-95% PC Feel. There will always be some accelaration issues when using a XIM.

    Its not even close to 50%

    if that is the case, then these adapters wouldnt be so populair.

    Its popular because its preferred input device, not because its some magic device that instantly turns you into a god mode. Like i said I tested xim4 for a month, then settled for Tac Hori. When I am on for short sessions I use ds4, and longer sessions tac hori, and my performance is exactly the same. Funny thing when i am playing with ds4 some kids always accuses me of using mnk, and when I m using tac hori its all silent.
  • The_BERG_366
    2198 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    full951 wrote: »
    full951 wrote: »
    Vycinas2 wrote: »
    full951 wrote: »
    stiny1838 wrote: »
    would using a joystick for a flying game or a steering wheel for a driving game be considered cheating?

    No because they don't change the way the car or plane handles they are purely for better immersion, using a m&kb does give advantages like faster target acquisition and the abillity to adad spam while you keep your sights locked on your opponents head.

    using mouse and keyboard with an emulators does not change the way character movement handles. MnK does not give the advantage of faster target acquisition. it does not change the rules, it does not change the speed. it does not. give adad spam to any degree more than a controller can do it. it does not change the rules or speed. it does not lock on to anything. there is no aim assist or lock abilities added.

    It does sort of feel more natural in that instead of pushing a stick to move the reticle to the target you are moving your hand to the target. When I played PC I did a lot better than I do on console. But aside from that (which is totally my opinion) there is no advantage. In fact if you do a real direct comparison of MnK on PS4 to MnK on PC you will most likely find a disadvantage on PS4 because of the driver and firmware lag that is present because you have to have some sort of translator because a PC is designed for those inputs natively and PS4 doesn't.

    At least someone speaks sense here in this pointless discussion. Bad players will always find a reason to blame something for their own incompetence. They think if you use mnk it turns you into super aiming and destroyer god, but they fail to understand that all this mnk does is just emulates the controller input, its pretty much a controller with different layout and mouse, nothing compared to raw input of the mouse on PC.

    yeah, from what i understand is that with the right configuration of XIM and ingame settings u can get a 90-95% PC Feel. There will always be some accelaration issues when using a XIM.

    I guess that all depends on your definition of "pc feel". cuz from a standpoint of its a mouse and keyboard, sure sitting down and having a mouse in one hand and keyboard in the other is 100% "pc feel"

    what I think most are worried about is its performance compared to that of native mouse and keyboard support on pc. it is just as far away from native support as a controller is. because they operate under the same parameters, limitations, rules ect. if the emulators operated outside the bounds of what a controller could do, the emulators would be locked out. everyone seems to think the emulators are "tricking" the console. not true. the emulators are complying by following the rules set by the console and the game. it's as if some people think the emulators gain access or bypass the consoles security systems. that just isn't happening

    you seriously say that an emulator is not a bypass? lol... just lol. do you think that the main focus of a system that doesn't allow plug and play with an mnk is to just conserve the limitation that are generated when working with controller input? you clearly try to define the mean of action as the underlying reason. the intention behind not allowing plug and play mnk is to not allow mnk... not to have a system that doesnt allow unlimited turning speed and relatively small key binding options.
    the whole reason why such adapters even exist is because people want to use an mnk (mostly for shooter games) on consoles as well but the console/games don't feature the option to do that. to BYPASS these restrictions the adapter comes into play. its as easy as that....
    if it was about the system console manufacturers would just integrate a plug and play option for mnk featuring the restrictions of controller input, but clearly thats not the intention. (remark: the intention behind a system is obviously important to take into consideration when talking about "bypassing" it. if we took the system itself then everything that works on that system would not be a bypass by definition which would make the concept of a bypass obsolete.)
    the anti recoil or auto spotting scripts of a cronus max "are complying by following the rules set by the console and the game" as well by this very definition. so theres two possibilities:
    1. you deny that they comply and hence have to change your definition
    2. you agree they comply and hence your argument doesnt hold any value as we can apply it as well to something that is clearly cheating. we can even apply it to the case of someone breaking into someone elses bank account. the "hacker" can argue: "i played by the rules of your security system but i won" and hence he would not have "bypassed" the security system which is absurd (as mentioned in the first remark)
    (second remark: no i don't compare hacking someones bank account to using an mnk adapter on console. i use the hack of a bank account to show that this definition leads to ad absurdum.)

    everything I said stands. you wanna compair it to hacking and stealing from bank accounts. I'm telling you all it does is give controller input. what's being stolen? nothing. where is the cheating? none to be found. it's player input that follows the rules set by the system it operates on. it controls the controller. you mention there's no plug in play for those perifials. this is the solution for that. and the console manufacturers and devs have noticed the demand. hence the officially licensed mouse and keyboard products and roll out of support that's happening as we speak.

    you have a huge misunderstanding of why mouse and keyboards don't come with consoles. there's more one reason, none of them are to prevent you from using mouse and keyboard because its unfair in a shooter game. one major reason is because they want the console to be the center piece of your entertainment system in the living room. if it came with a mouse and keyboard you would likely not put it in your living room front and center for the multiple digital market places to be exposed to the household. if it came with mouse and keyboard you'd treat it like a computer, and place it on a desk in the corner or a small room exposing it to less people in the house. ask yourself, what is a modern console really? It's A Pay Point. it's like those electric scooters popping up in cities. those are not scooters. those are credit card readers. it's about money and coercing you to spend more on it. got Netflix? Hulu? first party market place for movies? most games have a market place in the game. and the devs just go along with it and make games that support controllers. much like the manufacturers don't have an issue with the emulators, neither do the devs. even the over watch devs who took issue asked for it to be available to all.... well.. what do you think is happening? it's available to all.

    ah come on man :weary:
    i literally ended my comment with a remark pointing out that im not comparing the two and you start of your reply by saying i compare them. why do i even bother putting the remarks if you don't read them anyways...

    regardless, all that is kind of a response to what i said is the whole thing about why mnk doesn't come with consoles. but even there u actually missed the point. i never spoke about consoles coming with mnk. i spoke about consoles allowing plug and play mnk. i would say that an mnk just isn't a viable choice for a system that should be able to serve as a multimedia entertainment system in the living room simply because you can't conveniently use an mnk without a desk and hence this probably is in deed a reason why it doesn't come with mnk but its not a reason to not allow plug and play mnk. and that is what i said....

    so yeah i don't know... maybe reread and try again? like we can talk about the stuff you mentioned as well but i'd like you to realise that your argument about emulators not "bypassing" anything doesn't make sense first.
  • Lwranc
    16 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Yes, cheating was found using some illegal methods such as semi-automatic weapons being fully automaticized, as well as the use of methods that increase the stability of weapons with strong recoil and also makes secondary weapon fire with a single click of the button
  • full951
    2366 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    full951 wrote: »
    full951 wrote: »
    Vycinas2 wrote: »
    full951 wrote: »
    stiny1838 wrote: »
    would using a joystick for a flying game or a steering wheel for a driving game be considered cheating?

    No because they don't change the way the car or plane handles they are purely for better immersion, using a m&kb does give advantages like faster target acquisition and the abillity to adad spam while you keep your sights locked on your opponents head.

    using mouse and keyboard with an emulators does not change the way character movement handles. MnK does not give the advantage of faster target acquisition. it does not change the rules, it does not change the speed. it does not. give adad spam to any degree more than a controller can do it. it does not change the rules or speed. it does not lock on to anything. there is no aim assist or lock abilities added.

    It does sort of feel more natural in that instead of pushing a stick to move the reticle to the target you are moving your hand to the target. When I played PC I did a lot better than I do on console. But aside from that (which is totally my opinion) there is no advantage. In fact if you do a real direct comparison of MnK on PS4 to MnK on PC you will most likely find a disadvantage on PS4 because of the driver and firmware lag that is present because you have to have some sort of translator because a PC is designed for those inputs natively and PS4 doesn't.

    At least someone speaks sense here in this pointless discussion. Bad players will always find a reason to blame something for their own incompetence. They think if you use mnk it turns you into super aiming and destroyer god, but they fail to understand that all this mnk does is just emulates the controller input, its pretty much a controller with different layout and mouse, nothing compared to raw input of the mouse on PC.

    yeah, from what i understand is that with the right configuration of XIM and ingame settings u can get a 90-95% PC Feel. There will always be some accelaration issues when using a XIM.

    I guess that all depends on your definition of "pc feel". cuz from a standpoint of its a mouse and keyboard, sure sitting down and having a mouse in one hand and keyboard in the other is 100% "pc feel"

    what I think most are worried about is its performance compared to that of native mouse and keyboard support on pc. it is just as far away from native support as a controller is. because they operate under the same parameters, limitations, rules ect. if the emulators operated outside the bounds of what a controller could do, the emulators would be locked out. everyone seems to think the emulators are "tricking" the console. not true. the emulators are complying by following the rules set by the console and the game. it's as if some people think the emulators gain access or bypass the consoles security systems. that just isn't happening

    you seriously say that an emulator is not a bypass? lol... just lol. do you think that the main focus of a system that doesn't allow plug and play with an mnk is to just conserve the limitation that are generated when working with controller input? you clearly try to define the mean of action as the underlying reason. the intention behind not allowing plug and play mnk is to not allow mnk... not to have a system that doesnt allow unlimited turning speed and relatively small key binding options.
    the whole reason why such adapters even exist is because people want to use an mnk (mostly for shooter games) on consoles as well but the console/games don't feature the option to do that. to BYPASS these restrictions the adapter comes into play. its as easy as that....
    if it was about the system console manufacturers would just integrate a plug and play option for mnk featuring the restrictions of controller input, but clearly thats not the intention. (remark: the intention behind a system is obviously important to take into consideration when talking about "bypassing" it. if we took the system itself then everything that works on that system would not be a bypass by definition which would make the concept of a bypass obsolete.)
    the anti recoil or auto spotting scripts of a cronus max "are complying by following the rules set by the console and the game" as well by this very definition. so theres two possibilities:
    1. you deny that they comply and hence have to change your definition
    2. you agree they comply and hence your argument doesnt hold any value as we can apply it as well to something that is clearly cheating. we can even apply it to the case of someone breaking into someone elses bank account. the "hacker" can argue: "i played by the rules of your security system but i won" and hence he would not have "bypassed" the security system which is absurd (as mentioned in the first remark)
    (second remark: no i don't compare hacking someones bank account to using an mnk adapter on console. i use the hack of a bank account to show that this definition leads to ad absurdum.)

    everything I said stands. you wanna compair it to hacking and stealing from bank accounts. I'm telling you all it does is give controller input. what's being stolen? nothing. where is the cheating? none to be found. it's player input that follows the rules set by the system it operates on. it controls the controller. you mention there's no plug in play for those perifials. this is the solution for that. and the console manufacturers and devs have noticed the demand. hence the officially licensed mouse and keyboard products and roll out of support that's happening as we speak.

    you have a huge misunderstanding of why mouse and keyboards don't come with consoles. there's more one reason, none of them are to prevent you from using mouse and keyboard because its unfair in a shooter game. one major reason is because they want the console to be the center piece of your entertainment system in the living room. if it came with a mouse and keyboard you would likely not put it in your living room front and center for the multiple digital market places to be exposed to the household. if it came with mouse and keyboard you'd treat it like a computer, and place it on a desk in the corner or a small room exposing it to less people in the house. ask yourself, what is a modern console really? It's A Pay Point. it's like those electric scooters popping up in cities. those are not scooters. those are credit card readers. it's about money and coercing you to spend more on it. got Netflix? Hulu? first party market place for movies? most games have a market place in the game. and the devs just go along with it and make games that support controllers. much like the manufacturers don't have an issue with the emulators, neither do the devs. even the over watch devs who took issue asked for it to be available to all.... well.. what do you think is happening? it's available to all.

    ah come on man :weary:
    i literally ended my comment with a remark pointing out that im not comparing the two and you start of your reply by saying i compare them. why do i even bother putting the remarks if you don't read them anyways...

    regardless, all that is kind of a response to what i said is the whole thing about why mnk doesn't come with consoles. but even there u actually missed the point. i never spoke about consoles coming with mnk. i spoke about consoles allowing plug and play mnk. i would say that an mnk just isn't a viable choice for a system that should be able to serve as a multimedia entertainment system in the living room simply because you can't conveniently use an mnk without a desk and hence this probably is in deed a reason why it doesn't come with mnk but its not a reason to not allow plug and play mnk. and that is what i said....

    so yeah i don't know... maybe reread and try again? like we can talk about the stuff you mentioned as well but i'd like you to realise that your argument about emulators not "bypassing" anything doesn't make sense first.

    you said it. so I have to address it. it's the very first point you drive the whole post on. so yes. it's how I start my response. because that's the comparison you made. no little tag line at the end changes that.

    you talk about why it is the way it is. I told you why it is the way it is. it's obvious the console didn't come with a mouse and keyboard, you didn't have to say it did not, to get that response. you seem to think there's an active effort to keep mouse and keyboard off the console, and misinterpret the lack of plug n play as evidence of such an effort.

    it's just years of console dogma, and uninformed users. as you see, the more the player base becomes informed of their perifial options, it's use increases. you give people options, they take them. this here is a excellent option for anyone who so chooses to use it. the manufacturer may have an intent for it to be the living room entertainment center piece, but I think you're a human of your own free will so you should understand that's not what everyone wants from it and they will use a console how they see fit. if you don't have a desk, this in no way prevents you from using mouse and keyboard on your couch. it's 2019. that "problem" was solved years ago. if that's not what you would do. that's fine, do. what you want. your console.

    as for it by passing. I said it wasn't accessing or by passing any security measures. cuz if it was, I think you know how the console manufacturers feel about that.
  • The_BERG_366
    2198 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    full951 wrote: »
    full951 wrote: »
    full951 wrote: »
    Vycinas2 wrote: »
    full951 wrote: »
    stiny1838 wrote: »
    would using a joystick for a flying game or a steering wheel for a driving game be considered cheating?

    No because they don't change the way the car or plane handles they are purely for better immersion, using a m&kb does give advantages like faster target acquisition and the abillity to adad spam while you keep your sights locked on your opponents head.

    using mouse and keyboard with an emulators does not change the way character movement handles. MnK does not give the advantage of faster target acquisition. it does not change the rules, it does not change the speed. it does not. give adad spam to any degree more than a controller can do it. it does not change the rules or speed. it does not lock on to anything. there is no aim assist or lock abilities added.

    It does sort of feel more natural in that instead of pushing a stick to move the reticle to the target you are moving your hand to the target. When I played PC I did a lot better than I do on console. But aside from that (which is totally my opinion) there is no advantage. In fact if you do a real direct comparison of MnK on PS4 to MnK on PC you will most likely find a disadvantage on PS4 because of the driver and firmware lag that is present because you have to have some sort of translator because a PC is designed for those inputs natively and PS4 doesn't.

    At least someone speaks sense here in this pointless discussion. Bad players will always find a reason to blame something for their own incompetence. They think if you use mnk it turns you into super aiming and destroyer god, but they fail to understand that all this mnk does is just emulates the controller input, its pretty much a controller with different layout and mouse, nothing compared to raw input of the mouse on PC.

    yeah, from what i understand is that with the right configuration of XIM and ingame settings u can get a 90-95% PC Feel. There will always be some accelaration issues when using a XIM.

    I guess that all depends on your definition of "pc feel". cuz from a standpoint of its a mouse and keyboard, sure sitting down and having a mouse in one hand and keyboard in the other is 100% "pc feel"

    what I think most are worried about is its performance compared to that of native mouse and keyboard support on pc. it is just as far away from native support as a controller is. because they operate under the same parameters, limitations, rules ect. if the emulators operated outside the bounds of what a controller could do, the emulators would be locked out. everyone seems to think the emulators are "tricking" the console. not true. the emulators are complying by following the rules set by the console and the game. it's as if some people think the emulators gain access or bypass the consoles security systems. that just isn't happening

    you seriously say that an emulator is not a bypass? lol... just lol. do you think that the main focus of a system that doesn't allow plug and play with an mnk is to just conserve the limitation that are generated when working with controller input? you clearly try to define the mean of action as the underlying reason. the intention behind not allowing plug and play mnk is to not allow mnk... not to have a system that doesnt allow unlimited turning speed and relatively small key binding options.
    the whole reason why such adapters even exist is because people want to use an mnk (mostly for shooter games) on consoles as well but the console/games don't feature the option to do that. to BYPASS these restrictions the adapter comes into play. its as easy as that....
    if it was about the system console manufacturers would just integrate a plug and play option for mnk featuring the restrictions of controller input, but clearly thats not the intention. (remark: the intention behind a system is obviously important to take into consideration when talking about "bypassing" it. if we took the system itself then everything that works on that system would not be a bypass by definition which would make the concept of a bypass obsolete.)
    the anti recoil or auto spotting scripts of a cronus max "are complying by following the rules set by the console and the game" as well by this very definition. so theres two possibilities:
    1. you deny that they comply and hence have to change your definition
    2. you agree they comply and hence your argument doesnt hold any value as we can apply it as well to something that is clearly cheating. we can even apply it to the case of someone breaking into someone elses bank account. the "hacker" can argue: "i played by the rules of your security system but i won" and hence he would not have "bypassed" the security system which is absurd (as mentioned in the first remark)
    (second remark: no i don't compare hacking someones bank account to using an mnk adapter on console. i use the hack of a bank account to show that this definition leads to ad absurdum.)

    everything I said stands. you wanna compair it to hacking and stealing from bank accounts. I'm telling you all it does is give controller input. what's being stolen? nothing. where is the cheating? none to be found. it's player input that follows the rules set by the system it operates on. it controls the controller. you mention there's no plug in play for those perifials. this is the solution for that. and the console manufacturers and devs have noticed the demand. hence the officially licensed mouse and keyboard products and roll out of support that's happening as we speak.

    you have a huge misunderstanding of why mouse and keyboards don't come with consoles. there's more one reason, none of them are to prevent you from using mouse and keyboard because its unfair in a shooter game. one major reason is because they want the console to be the center piece of your entertainment system in the living room. if it came with a mouse and keyboard you would likely not put it in your living room front and center for the multiple digital market places to be exposed to the household. if it came with mouse and keyboard you'd treat it like a computer, and place it on a desk in the corner or a small room exposing it to less people in the house. ask yourself, what is a modern console really? It's A Pay Point. it's like those electric scooters popping up in cities. those are not scooters. those are credit card readers. it's about money and coercing you to spend more on it. got Netflix? Hulu? first party market place for movies? most games have a market place in the game. and the devs just go along with it and make games that support controllers. much like the manufacturers don't have an issue with the emulators, neither do the devs. even the over watch devs who took issue asked for it to be available to all.... well.. what do you think is happening? it's available to all.

    ah come on man :weary:
    i literally ended my comment with a remark pointing out that im not comparing the two and you start of your reply by saying i compare them. why do i even bother putting the remarks if you don't read them anyways...

    regardless, all that is kind of a response to what i said is the whole thing about why mnk doesn't come with consoles. but even there u actually missed the point. i never spoke about consoles coming with mnk. i spoke about consoles allowing plug and play mnk. i would say that an mnk just isn't a viable choice for a system that should be able to serve as a multimedia entertainment system in the living room simply because you can't conveniently use an mnk without a desk and hence this probably is in deed a reason why it doesn't come with mnk but its not a reason to not allow plug and play mnk. and that is what i said....

    so yeah i don't know... maybe reread and try again? like we can talk about the stuff you mentioned as well but i'd like you to realise that your argument about emulators not "bypassing" anything doesn't make sense first.

    you said it. so I have to address it. it's the very first point you drive the whole post on. so yes. it's how I start my response. because that's the comparison you made. no little tag line at the end changes that.

    you talk about why it is the way it is. I told you why it is the way it is. it's obvious the console didn't come with a mouse and keyboard, you didn't have to say it did not, to get that response. you seem to think there's an active effort to keep mouse and keyboard off the console, and misinterpret the lack of plug n play as evidence of such an effort.

    it's just years of console dogma, and uninformed users. as you see, the more the player base becomes informed of their perifial options, it's use increases. you give people options, they take them. this here is a excellent option for anyone who so chooses to use it. the manufacturer may have an intent for it to be the living room entertainment center piece, but I think you're a human of your own free will so you should understand that's not what everyone wants from it and they will use a console how they see fit. if you don't have a desk, this in no way prevents you from using mouse and keyboard on your couch. it's 2019. that "problem" was solved years ago. if that's not what you would do. that's fine, do. what you want. your console.

    as for it by passing. I said it wasn't accessing or by passing any security measures. cuz if it was, I think you know how the console manufacturers feel about that.

    a remark doesnt definition or a proof. a remark is simply there to make the reader aware of something that is already there, but might not be taken into consideration by a reader. so i didn't not compare it because i said i didnt in the remark but because i didnt. now i wrote that because i thought you would understand once you think about it but thats apparently not the case. so i guess i have to explain it to you:
    you seem to be confusing two different argumentative concepts here. the first one is to use comparison in order to lead the initial arguemnt to ad absurdum. more precisely: its comparing A and B (putting them on the same level) to apply certain statements, that follow from A, to B also. the second one is to take an implication A -> B and simply find a counterexample.
    now you act like i used the first technique while i actually used the second. i did not claim similarities between using an mnk adapter and hacking a back account and hence deduce that using a mnk adapter is clearly tricking the system. i used your definition (which is an implication as well of course) to deduce that hacking a bankaccount could not be considered "tricking the system" or "bypassing" it.
    again: using a counterexample to prove an implication wrong is not equivalent to comparing the counterexample (hack) to the originally used example (emulator use).
    got it?

    "you seem to think there's an active effort to keep mouse and keyboard off the console" ... no surprise here, still unable to simply comprehend what im writing rather than interpreting things. regardless i do acknowledge the relevance of this question regarding my initial post so i will state my opinion on the matter. i do not believe that there is an active effort to keep mnk off of consoles in general. however making the conscious decision to not support native mnk in a game is clear evidence for the underlying intention to not support mnk in this specific scenario. maybe some developers don't mind the adapters, maybe none of them mind it but they might for example be aware that a significant amount of people in the community would mind it and hence don't implement it. the argument of laziness is ridiculous considering it wouldn't take more than a straight pc port to implement it.

    and then you go on about more things you simply couldn't read properly. all i did was agreeing with you partially by saying that the console should BE ABLE TO serve as a multimedia entertainment system in the living room and that making it come with a mnk instead of a controller would in deed (as you said as well) not make a lot of sense. you then somehow manage to translate this into me claiming that consoles should only be used in the living room and hence mnk should never be supported on console or whatever... like seriously wtf? :weary:

    ok true, you only used "bypass" in regards to security system, my apology. simply replace "bypassing" with "tricking" in whatever i said so far as that is the word you used in the part im referring to.
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