Re-Nerf the AP mines.

Comments

  • Trokey66
    8171 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    I am very sorry to say that (actually not), but AP-mines are just a cheap and selfish gadget. It rewards passivity instead of skill. Even the dumbest player can place an AP mine effectively. Just place it next to a doorway and wait for the kill. Great, you got one more kill! Did that help your team? Probably not, but at least the K/D is boosted. That is the attitude that those AP-mine users have. It reflects the whole bloody game where passivity is rewarded. Why wouldn’t you rather use some smoke, anti-tank gadgets, spotting gadgets or a spawn beacon (depending on the class you are playing of course)? This game is just about one thing: how can I make the game the least enjoyable for other players... Battlefield 5 was meant to be rewarding skill but it becomes more and more obvious that it may be even more casual than Battlefield 1 at times. Sometimes I wonder how it could even be fun farming kills in a way that cheap? But at the same time it is a general problem of this game because the intense gunfights are almost totally gone. How could some developer ever think that a one-hitting AP-mine would be a great idea in a game where even bolt-action rifles deal mostly between 50-60 damage on a body shot. I know that sounds rather stupid as well, but I would rather be one-hit by a scout using a bolt-action rifle than by a passively placed AP-Mine. Every time there needs to be something for people to abuse...
    Typical run-gun response it killed me therefore it is cheap and selfish. so sayeth the Assault player.
    Passivity instead of skill what a load of rubbish. You can plant AP mine and be aggressive is that skillful? Passivity is not skillful then what about corner camping dynamite users? Don't see any thread calling them cheese and begging DICE to change that, it sure of hell of lot quick K/D boost than AP mines.

    If placing 3 AP Mine while stopping a flag from being taken is now not helping the team, gotcha. A Recon gadgets means I would need to use a BA or SLR to defend an object are you nuts, smoke is not going to stop attackers and AT weapon are not needed when vehicles can not attack.

    The only thing you got right.
    This game is just about one thing: how can I make the game the least enjoyable for other players.
    God damn yappers and their demands for specific content and nerfing everything that does not suite their video streams. There more to BF then zerg flags.

    BF rewards skill - Bullocks. What is so skillful about using AR or SAR compared to any other gun? Recoilless pieces of junk. How about corner camping dynamite users? So much skillful pouring out there.

    You wonder why gunfights are not good ask the echo chamber that DICE listen to that lead to the creation that is the premier Assault class, screw the rest. Having a gadget for Recon and Medic that can kill is abusing the system, right while have a class the majority use that can kill/destroy at every range is not abusing the system.

    But Assualt is the option of the 'skilled gunplay' the 'community' wanted. Anything that affects that is cheap and cheesy.
  • llPhantom_Limbll
    5312 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    I am very sorry to say that (actually not), but AP-mines are just a cheap and selfish gadget. It rewards passivity instead of skill. Even the dumbest player can place an AP mine effectively. Just place it next to a doorway and wait for the kill. Great, you got one more kill! Did that help your team? Probably not, but at least the K/D is boosted. That is the attitude that those AP-mine users have. It reflects the whole bloody game where passivity is rewarded. Why wouldn’t you rather use some smoke, anti-tank gadgets, spotting gadgets or a spawn beacon (depending on the class you are playing of course)? This game is just about one thing: how can I make the game the least enjoyable for other players... Battlefield 5 was meant to be rewarding skill but it becomes more and more obvious that it may be even more casual than Battlefield 1 at times. Sometimes I wonder how it could even be fun farming kills in a way that cheap? But at the same time it is a general problem of this game because the intense gunfights are almost totally gone. How could some developer ever think that a one-hitting AP-mine would be a great idea in a game where even bolt-action rifles deal mostly between 50-60 damage on a body shot. I know that sounds rather stupid as well, but I would rather be one-hit by a scout using a bolt-action rifle than by a passively placed AP-Mine. Every time there needs to be something for people to abuse...
    Typical run-gun response it killed me therefore it is cheap and selfish. so sayeth the Assault player.
    Passivity instead of skill what a load of rubbish. You can plant AP mine and be aggressive is that skillful? Passivity is not skillful then what about corner camping dynamite users? Don't see any thread calling them cheese and begging DICE to change that, it sure of hell of lot quick K/D boost than AP mines.

    If placing 3 AP Mine while stopping a flag from being taken is now not helping the team, gotcha. A Recon gadgets means I would need to use a BA or SLR to defend an object are you nuts, smoke is not going to stop attackers and AT weapon are not needed when vehicles can not attack.

    The only thing you got right.
    This game is just about one thing: how can I make the game the least enjoyable for other players.
    God damn yappers and their demands for specific content and nerfing everything that does not suite their video streams. There more to BF then zerg flags.

    BF rewards skill - Bullocks. What is so skillful about using AR or SAR compared to any other gun? Recoilless pieces of junk. How about corner camping dynamite users? So much skillful pouring out there.

    You wonder why gunfights are not good ask the echo chamber that DICE listen to that lead to the creation that is the premier Assault class, screw the rest. Having a gadget for Recon and Medic that can kill is abusing the system, right while have a class the majority use that can kill/destroy at every range is not abusing the system.

    But Assualt is the option of the 'skilled gunplay' the 'community' wanted. Anything that affects that is cheap and cheesy.

    Of course. There is an assault the only skilled class and there is that guy proned with bipod and also those two wastes of time and effort. The game is perfectly balanced as it is.
  • MacTurdy
    132 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    By the way if you had bothered looking up my stats you probably would have found out that the assault class is my least played class. I tell you why AP-mines are not skillful. In this game it is very predictalble which ways enemy players use. You simply have to place the AP-mines next to doorways then or behind some objects that those players have to overcome and you get a kill. "Oh baby, that's so skilled" - actually not. AP-mines are so much easier to plant effectively than they are to spot due to the bad visibilty in this game in general. That is also a reason why it is so easy to camp in corners with some bipodded guns.

    Three AP-mines is plenty, it is always one safe kill. Moreover they can be stacked an often some other friendly players place their mines next to the others as well and then it is just one carpet. And since those AP-mines are black and most surfaces also very dark, you can easily overlook them.

    I have got to tell you that even the tripwires in Battlefield 1 were more tactical since you had to position the wire correctly in order to use them effectively. But in this game you do not have to do that any more. Just place them and benefit from the bad visibility. Oh, I forgot, in Battlefield 1 you could also not stack them.

    I am a main scout playing with bolt-action rifles executing my role very aggressively. And by the way I have just looked up your profiles - even tho your support class is way easier to play I have got a better score per minute. I agree with you that the assault class is the class requiring the lowest skill ceiling, however the support is very close to the assault in those terms. I see you guys are enjoying the easy way the game offers you! Take that as a counter for your false accusations. At least you guys made me laugh. :D

  • Art3misJinx
    73 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 3
    If you rush, you get punished for that. Seems fair to me.

    Found the guy sitting at the back with a sniper or in the corner with an mg.
    Punishing players for being aggressive is a stupid thing in my opinion, especially in a game that heavily promotes camping as Battlefield V does.
    AP mines are fine. Typical knee jerk reaction to call for a nerf.

    Check your environment, otherwise it's your own fault.

    Why am I not surprised the guy who camps as support with ap mines and selflessly abuses the ammo crate to get unlimited ap mines think the mines are totally fine 🤔
  • fakemon64
    898 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 3
    I think the only reason "camping" is so prevalent is because we don't have grenades and mortars to force movement, but plenty of options to deny movement.
  • MachoFantast1c0
    2015 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    They aren't used tactically, they are either used to farm supply boxes or dropped into dark corners and rubble where they are impossible to see.

    Where is an acceptable place to put them then, in your opinion? In the middle of a brightly lit road?

    Anywhere is acceptable, of course. I'm merely pointing out they are not used tactically in the majority of cases. They are used to cheese kills by placing them in rubble and other dark places where they are impossible to notice.
  • Art3misJinx
    73 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    fakemon64 wrote: »
    I think the only reason "camping" is so prevalent is because we don't have grenades and mortars to force movement, but plenty of options to deny movement.

    The attrition system also plays a big part in that I think. People are less happy about moving when a few stray bullets can screw you over leaving you with no way to heal.
    Not to mention the bipods on mmgs and lmgs.
  • Astr0damus
    2901 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I am very sorry to say that (actually not), but AP-mines are just a cheap and selfish gadget. It rewards passivity instead of skill. Even the dumbest player can place an AP mine effectively. Just place it next to a doorway and wait for the kill. Great, you got one more kill! Did that help your team? Probably not, but at least the K/D is boosted. That is the attitude that those AP-mine users have. It reflects the whole bloody game where passivity is rewarded. Why wouldn’t you rather use some smoke, anti-tank gadgets, spotting gadgets or a spawn beacon (depending on the class you are playing of course)? This game is just about one thing: how can I make the game the least enjoyable for other players... Battlefield 5 was meant to be rewarding skill but it becomes more and more obvious that it may be even more casual than Battlefield 1 at times. Sometimes I wonder how it could even be fun farming kills in a way that cheap? But at the same time it is a general problem of this game because the intense gunfights are almost totally gone. How could some developer ever think that a one-hitting AP-mine would be a great idea in a game where even bolt-action rifles deal mostly between 50-60 damage on a body shot. I know that sounds rather stupid as well, but I would rather be one-hit by a scout using a bolt-action rifle than by a passively placed AP-Mine. Every time there needs to be something for people to abuse...

    I don't (typically) play recon class, but I think it helps them as sort of an "alarm" that someone is behind them or about to enter a room they are in... it also serves to pre-wound them so that a mere pistol shot can finish them. At least that's why I think recon's have access to them as well as medics.
    ==
    Regarding how "cheesy" or "non-tactical" they are.. I believe they are an unintended but genius balance to the fact that you used to have to come to "us" (medic and support) for your supplies/health, but now you have these huge crates.. but with the easiness/cheesiness of getting "food stamps" you take the risk of getting hit with a double-stack of AP Mines. *shrug* All is fair in love and war-games.
  • plasticman883
    374 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 3
    COD run'n'gun bros detected!

    Enjoy the "t-tink" as you flank through rooms suckas. Oh and the ones that I deploy from my flakpanzer when you're about to throw dynamite on it after stalking it through grass over half the map.
    Post edited by plasticman883 on
  • plasticman883
    374 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Drunkkze has confirmed that the stealth buff was an unintended change and will be fixed. Prepare to have your cheese taken away.

    Source please?

    "Unintended" huh, like when it happened for a few glorious weeks in BF1.

    If this is true I'm off to Apex, this truly has become Assaultfield.
  • Art3misJinx
    73 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    COD run'n'gun bros deteced!

    Enjoy the "t-tink" as you flank through rooms suckas. Oh and the ones that I deploy from my flakpanzer when you're about to throw dynamite on it after stalking it through grass over half the map.

    camper detected.
  • fakemon64
    898 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    fakemon64 wrote: »
    I think the only reason "camping" is so prevalent is because we don't have grenades and mortars to force movement, but plenty of options to deny movement.

    The attrition system also plays a big part in that I think. People are less happy about moving when a few stray bullets can screw you over leaving you with no way to heal.
    Not to mention the bipods on mmgs and lmgs.

    I can see attrition playing a hand too. But, I don't understand the drama over bipods. If anything, bipods were more effective in bf3/4 when suppression was much more prevalent.

    Throughout the bf series, I usually main engineer/support or stick to vehicles. Everytime I play support, I get a big lmg with a huge mag/drum and stick a bipod on it. It just seems like how you're supposed to use those guns I guess.

    Sure there are usually smaller, more mobile lmgs, but I just love the feeling of hunkering down with an MG and performing overwatch for my smurfs.
  • Noromiz
    291 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    It is good to hear they will nerf them again. Essentially you will have one mine instead of three, as you will need two to kill one again.
    But I still think they should remove them from the Medic as it doesn't really fit them, though that would make them have even fewer gadgets than they already have :/
    Maybe giving them a "Smoke Mine" or something, possibly with colored smoke so people (read: planes) can see what side just had a "Smoke Mine" triggered.

    The Recon should keep them as they fit their theme and the few of them going to the objective should be rewarded.
    The Support should keep them too as it fits their "defensive theme" rather well, even though they basically start with three of them if they pick the Ammo Crate. Their other gadgets are also useful enough to force them to choose between AP Mines and AT Mines (drop 3, shoot them, take out a heavy tank) or the Sturmpistole (good at removing sandbag walls from a distance).
  • onylra_II
    76 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I got one kill (maybe more, I dunno - given you just plop them down anywhere and forget about them until minutes later you get a random kill - SKILL, FUN) with this dreadful gadget, and felt so ashamed. Can't wait to level up so I get a not-lame gadget to use. If it just injured I wouldn't feel so bad about using it to deter a push. The fact you can place several is downright ridiculous given their brain-dead application. Good riddance to bad rubbish!
  • Pelliy
    2221 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    Pelliy wrote: »
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    They aren't used tactically, they are either used to farm supply boxes or dropped into dark corners and rubble where they are impossible to see.

    Drunkkze has confirmed that the stealth buff was an unintended change and will be fixed. Prepare to have your cheese taken away.

    Typical of DICE right now catering to yappers and the premier class players.

    I see it's already started. LoL.

    What was wrong with AP mines in it's past iteration? Why do you think it justifies a buff? Tell us.
    1) It was set for a game with no auto Regen health or players being frequently being at 100%
    2) It requires 2 to get a kill but you are only given 1
    3) You can only place 3 so 1 does not have a partner.
    4) Let's see do we have a Frag Grenade Launcher that does not 1HK against Infantry, how about dynamite, Piat or Panzerfaust?
    But Recon and Medic are not allowed to have a gadget that can 1HK.

    If the game it is meant for players to put as much effort in defence as well as attacking then rolling back is going the wrong way.

    Like other have I raised this issue almost 2 month ago https://forums.battlefield.com/en-us/discussion/175284/recon-gadgets#latest

    Why are Assault gadgets not treated the same way?

    1) Right. That's why one would be effective. If this game had autogen, might make for a better argument(but I still would disagree)
    2.) So do you want recon to get 2 in its previous damage state?
    3.) See 1
    4.) Assaults are meant to destroy tanks. However, I do agree with you that the riflegrenade should be nerfed to the floor.
  • Art3misJinx
    73 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    fakemon64 wrote: »
    fakemon64 wrote: »
    I think the only reason "camping" is so prevalent is because we don't have grenades and mortars to force movement, but plenty of options to deny movement.

    The attrition system also plays a big part in that I think. People are less happy about moving when a few stray bullets can screw you over leaving you with no way to heal.
    Not to mention the bipods on mmgs and lmgs.

    I can see attrition playing a hand too. But, I don't understand the drama over bipods. If anything, bipods were more effective in bf3/4 when suppression was much more prevalent.

    Throughout the bf series, I usually main engineer/support or stick to vehicles. Everytime I play support, I get a big lmg with a huge mag/drum and stick a bipod on it. It just seems like how you're supposed to use those guns I guess.

    Sure there are usually smaller, more mobile lmgs, but I just love the feeling of hunkering down with an MG and performing overwatch for my smurfs.

    It's not really the bipod itself that's the problem. But more so how much of an advantage they give the player over not using them, leading to players barely moving around the map and instead camping their **** off or lying prone som random place. I wouldn't really care about bipods if you could ads with mmgs and both lmgs and mmgs were more accurate and had less recoil. But as it is right now, you're significantly weakened as a support player if you try moving around the map and be a bit aggressive, which leads to many support players just camping.
  • bran1986
    5596 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    If you rush, you get punished for that. Seems fair to me.

    Found the guy sitting at the back with a sniper or in the corner with an mg.
    Punishing players for being aggressive is a stupid thing in my opinion, especially in a game that heavily promotes camping as Battlefield V does.
    AP mines are fine. Typical knee jerk reaction to call for a nerf.

    Check your environment, otherwise it's your own fault.

    Why am I not surprised the guy who camps as support with ap mines and selflessly abuses the ammo crate to get unlimited ap mines think the mines are totally fine 🤔

    i have played with @llPhantom_Limbll he isnt a camper, he is a team player.
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