DISCUSSION: Our Anti-Cheat Approach to Battlefield V

Comments

  • DigitalHype
    794 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    I notice this thread is no longer pinned. Is this because EA believes they have now fixed the hacker issue?

    I notice there hasn't been an official response on this thread in weeks. Is this because EA believes the Community no longer cares about hackers?

    I notice the hacker thread on PC discussion is now over 162 pages with over 70k views.

    If I a casual player who visits the official forums has noticed this, why has no one from EA/Dice noticed this? Or said anything constructive about what is being done to stop hackers? Have you gathered enough feedback now?

    It seems to have gotten better, as in the last couple of games I played I didn't run into any obvious cheaters, but with no communication from EA how do we know? More likely I just lucked out.

    This thread was damage control, after a certain Youtube video approached a million views. I've yet to see any serious changes.
  • misisipiRivrRat
    963 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Pelliy wrote: »
    @DancesWthMice

    I believe this post is referring to me. I never said only 1 percent is cheating. That's a strawman. I said that in order for it to be rampant in BF5, it would have to be greater than 1 percent and I stated my reasons why. I said my number was around 10% iirc and that I don't actually know what the number is. Red Label is the one who said 1% is rampant and gave his reasons why.

    I've also stated since christmas, I've noticed an uptick in Cheaters and that there is a problem.

    Just throwing that out there for clarification.

    You too can be put on ignore.

    Yep, still encountering cheaters daily. I wouldn't call it rampant, but it was never this bad in BF1.

    I play on ps4 so cheating isn't a problem. I'm just wondering why people cheat. Seriously how can that be fun?
  • DigitalHype
    794 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Pelliy wrote: »
    @DancesWthMice

    I believe this post is referring to me. I never said only 1 percent is cheating. That's a strawman. I said that in order for it to be rampant in BF5, it would have to be greater than 1 percent and I stated my reasons why. I said my number was around 10% iirc and that I don't actually know what the number is. Red Label is the one who said 1% is rampant and gave his reasons why.

    I've also stated since christmas, I've noticed an uptick in Cheaters and that there is a problem.

    Just throwing that out there for clarification.

    You too can be put on ignore.

    Yep, still encountering cheaters daily. I wouldn't call it rampant, but it was never this bad in BF1.

    I play on ps4 so cheating isn't a problem. I'm just wondering why people cheat. Seriously how can that be fun?

    It's part of a vicious cycle. Skilled clean players aren't on a level playing field with cheaters (non-rage types). So, in order to balance that they install a cheat, and see their performance improve. This raises the bar for everyone else, and thus the cycles continues.
    -
    The observed abilities between high-skill clean players and cheaters overlaps. Everyone is just trying to compete. And now we have software in the mix narrowing the skill gaps. DICE's neglegence has allowed the problem to fester long enough that the accepted norms have shifted the curve.
    -
    I've said it before. This problem has so many analogies to steroid abuse in Major League Baseball in the 90's. Both the league turning a blind eye, because it is in their short-term interest to do so (EA/DICE). And good baseball players who wanted to play clean. But, they were trying to stay competitive (i.e. stealth cheaters).
  • Red_Label_Scotch
    1302 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Hey, it's simple...I will not encounter any more hackers in any more Battlefield games, nor any EA games.

    Won't buy another.
  • Sugekoppen
    9 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Axlerod1 wrote: »
    Sugekoppen wrote: »
    Perhaps DICE/EA should consider offering servers for "verified only" players. As in, players verified with a valid credit card. Spend the extra resources on keeping those verified servers clean, and use the ban hammer on cheaters' credit cards.

    The risk of getting your credit card (which is harder to replace or spoof) banned should be a better deterrent than simple account bans.

    Won't work buddy.

    Plus you would also risk punishing legitimate players whom have a poor credit rating and thus are unable to get a credit card.

    Um even with bad credit or no credit, people should be able to get a debit card from their bank. It would still work.

    Debit cards do not work in the same way as a credit card.

    A credit card is where you are given X amount of funds on a card and you pay it back in monthly installments depending on how much of the overall card total you have spent, i.e The money isn't actually yours until you've paid off your purchases / cc bill.

    If you have defaulted on other things such as utility bill payments, Not paid bank charges, Or even your car insurance did not go out of the bank on time due to receiving your salary a day or two later than usual, Any of those can result in your details being forwarded to credit reference agencies thus putting you on a blacklist, To warn other lenders that you may be susceptible to making late payments or have difficulty paying in the future.

    This in turn results in applications for credit to result in refusal, Even if your credit history prior to applying for credit is clean.



    A Debit card will only allow you to access funds in your bank that are in your account, No money? No spendy, Unless you have an overdraft which can be pretty expensive.

    Not that we're discussing the various types of cards, But another reason the whole credit card thing won't work is simple, You can buy "prepay / top up" credit cards which doesn't rely on the user signing a contract with a credit broker.

    See more here : https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/credit-cards/prepaid-cards/

    Thanks for putting in the time and thought into writing a comprehensive reply!

    1. I'm not suggesting that EA ban the card itself. I am, as other users are pointing out, trying to find a way to identify people by their real name address/data, and combine that with the cards to identify them disregarding which account they're playing on, so they won't (easily) be able to circumvent a ban. Also, there's a point in cheaters knowing that their real name and data is in the hands of the company whose TOS they've breached.

    2. Good point on different card types. What I'd suggest is to simply permit only credit card types which allow you to identify the owner of the card.

    3. Finally, no one is being punished by not being "verified"! Keep running unverified servers, let everyone in while banning cheaters by their accounts. That's what we currently have. And if you get enough complaints from poor people who cannot get verified, extend the verification to include verification by other (similarly secure) methods. It's not as if this hasn't been done succesfully done by companies like freelancers.com and upwork.com.

    Did I mention that having two types of servers with an obvious difference in amount of cheating will provide you (or Fairfight) with excellent comparison data for detecting cheats?

    You need to think about the psychology behind cheating: Most cheaters are by definition lazy. They are risk averse and tend to cheat when they have little to lose. They don't want to spend too much time or hassle on circumventing the anti-cheats. They hate being called out publicly for cheating.

    Now, what's really important here is that I don't think the above guarantees cheat-less servers! There's always someone who is either stupid or doesn't care and will cheat until caught and banned.

    But I'd be happy with a 99.5% reduction in cheating, and if such a reduction came I'd be willing to pay for it. Providing verified servers seems like something that EA could easily try out with a very modest investment..?
  • TFBisquit
    1918 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Pelliy wrote: »
    @DancesWthMice

    I believe this post is referring to me. I never said only 1 percent is cheating. That's a strawman. I said that in order for it to be rampant in BF5, it would have to be greater than 1 percent and I stated my reasons why. I said my number was around 10% iirc and that I don't actually know what the number is. Red Label is the one who said 1% is rampant and gave his reasons why.

    I've also stated since christmas, I've noticed an uptick in Cheaters and that there is a problem.

    Just throwing that out there for clarification.

    You too can be put on ignore.

    Yep, still encountering cheaters daily. I wouldn't call it rampant, but it was never this bad in BF1.

    I play on ps4 so cheating isn't a problem. I'm just wondering why people cheat. Seriously how can that be fun?

    They use crutches like esp, and perhaps some extra damage per bullet. That way it's still entertaining to them, and if someone gets them a couple of times they can zero in on this person and do some payback.
    They still have to reload and refill ammo, replenish health, miss shots. It's sort of a trainer for them.
    If only it were just aimbotters. Those are easily spotted. The sneaky ones aren't.
  • LOLGotYerTags
    13703 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    Sugekoppen wrote: »
    Thanks for putting in the time and thought into writing a comprehensive reply!

    1. I'm not suggesting that EA ban the card itself. I am, as other users are pointing out, trying to find a way to identify people by their real name address/data, and combine that with the cards to identify them disregarding which account they're playing on, so they won't (easily) be able to circumvent a ban. Also, there's a point in cheaters knowing that their real name and data is in the hands of the company whose TOS they've breached.

    2. Good point on different card types. What I'd suggest is to simply permit only credit card types which allow you to identify the owner of the card.

    That won't work, By making it mandatory to have an actual credit card, You will see the number of players drop drastically.

    Not everybody is able to get credit due to being blacklisted by credit reference agencies, You would be punishing a very large portion of the populus and thus hurting yourselves too in that finding populated servers would be significantly more difficult.

  • Axlerod1
    1384 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    A debit card would work in this case.
    A bank will still want their customers contact information.

    Trust me, I take credit cards and debit cards all the time. I have to get their contact info that their debit card is registered too.

    the only thing that will not work is pre-paid cards. Those would not be able to be accepted.

    Yes people will not want to do that but if it decrease the amount of cheaters then it will be worth because in the long run, more players will want to play the game.
    Someone would not want to risk having their origin account banned even say for 1 year.
  • Red_Label_Scotch
    1302 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 2019
    Hello Battlefield V Community,

    We definitely want to work with the community on improving our anti-cheat efforts as an ongoing commitment to our Battlefield V community as part of our Live Service.
    We'd love to have your feedback, suggestions, questions, so we've opened this thread to gather all of that. We ask that you keep it constructive and productive. Together we can continue improving Battlefield V for all of us.

    This is just a patent, out-right, lie. You don't have any commitment. You don't care.

    You have shown that to us, consistently.

    You've asked us to "Keep it constructive and productive." To many of us, that translates to, "Don't get mad at us because we are doing nothing." That is certainly what it feels like.

    https://streamable.com/un51e

    Some gameplay from tonight.

    You have let rage hackers "rage on" for over three weeks. These rage hackers are well-documented on Reddit.

    So many of us have lost respect for you. My sincere wish is that we all remember Braddock512 and the next game where he works at, so we can avoid that one too.
  • Sugekoppen
    9 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Sugekoppen wrote: »
    Thanks for putting in the time and thought into writing a comprehensive reply!

    1. I'm not suggesting that EA ban the card itself. I am, as other users are pointing out, trying to find a way to identify people by their real name address/data, and combine that with the cards to identify them disregarding which account they're playing on, so they won't (easily) be able to circumvent a ban. Also, there's a point in cheaters knowing that their real name and data is in the hands of the company whose TOS they've breached.

    2. Good point on different card types. What I'd suggest is to simply permit only credit card types which allow you to identify the owner of the card.

    That won't work, By making it mandatory to have an actual credit card, You will see the number of players drop drastically.

    Not everybody is able to get credit due to being blacklisted by credit reference agencies, You would be punishing a very large portion of the populus and thus hurting yourselves too in that finding populated servers would be significantly more difficult.

    Well, could you address the points I made, please?

    For one thing, I didn't suggest credit cards being mandatory for all players - only to access verified servers. There would still be all the unverified servers available.

    You say that the number of players will drop drastically. No, the number of players for validated servers will be zero in the beginning. As players start validating, the validated servers start filling up. Clans would love to rent them.

    Why are you categorically stating this wouldn't work? So far your best argument has been "some players might get offended by not being able to play on verified servers". But right now everyone is far more offended by your lack of action against cheaters. I think verified servers would be a low risk, low cost solution.

    Hey, why don't you start by adding this verification without verified servers. Show the verification status in the users' profile. And let server admins filter/ban users based on verification status, and see where it goes?
  • American_Outlaw
    61 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    Hello Battlefield V Community,

    Today we released "Our Anti-Cheat Approach to Battlefield V" blog, providing some insight into our efforts for fair play in Battlefield V, our goals on constantly improving detection, and dedication to the Battlefield community.

    What are the top five things DICE is doing to prevent cheating in Battlefield V?
    • Working on better prevention, hardening the PC client against exploits.
    • Scaling up detection efforts.
    • Investigating supplementary deterrence methods which can work alongside banning accounts.
    • Investigating methods of improving the reporting flow, including easier reporting.
    • Keeping up to date with the latest cheat developments and reacting to them in a faster and leaner manner.


    We definitely want to work with the community on improving our anti-cheat efforts as an ongoing commitment to our Battlefield V community as part of our Live Service.
    We'd love to have your feedback, suggestions, questions, so we've opened this thread to gather all of that. We ask that you keep it constructive and productive. Together we can continue improving Battlefield V for all of us.

    So, read through the blog and come back to share your feedback.

    Jeff Braddock
    North American Community Manager - Battlefield

    What AntiCheat Approach? With all do respect, the only approach that DICE is taking is "Do nothing and hope the hackers go away". All I read about on here and Reddit from DICE is we are working on it, or it will be done soon etc... while the hackers burn this game to the ground. I started to play a round tonight expecting a 2 - 3 hour session but my first game had a hacker that was 78 - 1.... I shut down the game and decided it was time to step away from this hackerfest of a game for awhile and play AC Odyssey that I have been meaning to play. Myself and alot of the community have had with DICE's failure to implement any sort of halfway decent measure to control cheating so why should we as a community invest our time in a product that is infested with cheaters and a company that has not a clue on how to control or fix the problem.... Just so pathetic and not what I expect from a AAA company like DICE.
  • American_Outlaw
    61 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    Hello Battlefield V Community,

    Today we released "Our Anti-Cheat Approach to Battlefield V" blog, providing some insight into our efforts for fair play in Battlefield V, our goals on constantly improving detection, and dedication to the Battlefield community.

    What are the top five things DICE is doing to prevent cheating in Battlefield V?
    • Working on better prevention, hardening the PC client against exploits.
    • Scaling up detection efforts.
    • Investigating supplementary deterrence methods which can work alongside banning accounts.
    • Investigating methods of improving the reporting flow, including easier reporting.
    • Keeping up to date with the latest cheat developments and reacting to them in a faster and leaner manner.


    We definitely want to work with the community on improving our anti-cheat efforts as an ongoing commitment to our Battlefield V community as part of our Live Service.
    We'd love to have your feedback, suggestions, questions, so we've opened this thread to gather all of that. We ask that you keep it constructive and productive. Together we can continue improving Battlefield V for all of us.

    So, read through the blog and come back to share your feedback.

    Jeff Braddock
    North American Community Manager - Battlefield

    With all do respect, what anti-cheat approach? Sit around and hope they go away? This game is infested with hackers and are burning it too the ground. I honestly don't think DICE has a clue how to control or stop the hacking in this game. Its so frustrating to sit down like i did tonight to expect to play a few hours after the kids go to bed and the first damn game I play there is a hacker that is 83 - 1 with over 350 tickets left in the game. As the server emptied I closed the game and loaded up AC Odyssey that I have been putting off since playing BFV. Myself and alot of the community have had enough of this rampant cheating and ruining the game. I am not wasting anymore of my time for awhile on this cancerous cheater infested game until DICE gets a clue and does something about it. Its really sad that a AAA company like DICE can't control the cheaters and are allowing them to burn this game to the ground and at the same time, losing alot of the community's respect at the same time...
  • parkingbrake
    3202 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Pelliy wrote: »
    @DancesWthMice

    I believe this post is referring to me. I never said only 1 percent is cheating. That's a strawman. I said that in order for it to be rampant in BF5, it would have to be greater than 1 percent and I stated my reasons why. I said my number was around 10% iirc and that I don't actually know what the number is. Red Label is the one who said 1% is rampant and gave his reasons why.

    I've also stated since christmas, I've noticed an uptick in Cheaters and that there is a problem.

    Just throwing that out there for clarification.

    You too can be put on ignore.

    Yep, still encountering cheaters daily. I wouldn't call it rampant, but it was never this bad in BF1.

    I play on ps4 so cheating isn't a problem. I'm just wondering why people cheat. Seriously how can that be fun?

    You don't think an aftermarket console controller with built-in cheat macros qualifies as cheating? Cheating on consoles isn't as widespread or as effective as it can be on PC, but it's still happening even if you aren't aware of it (gee that guy can really shoot fast, he must practice a lot).

    Some cheaters are in effect vandals, they enjoy spoiling the fun of others and want you to know they're using a hack. It's probably a disposable account so they don't care if they're caught (EA foolishly allows players to rent the game, cheat, be banned, and do it all over again). Other cheaters try not to get caught, maybe they're lying to themselves and thinking they just need a little edge, or maybe they think they need a hack because so many other players are using one. However they rationalize it, they're obviously not people you want to hold your wallet while you go in swimming because they'll probably rationalize taking some of your money. People who cheat are thieves, that's what it comes down to, they have a character flaw and you can bet that what they'll do in a video game they'll do in real life.
  • Axlerod1
    1384 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited March 2019
    I think we all want the same thing. To stop or at last slow down cheaters.
    Cheaters = modded controllers, lag switches, macros, esp, aimbot, bonebot, etc etc etc...

    As we all see it, the current methodology and punishment system is not working.

    Something different needs to be tried. The producers need to keep trying until a solution is found.

    Right now with the current system there are no repercussions for getting caught. T this is what needs changed the most. Perma bans for first offense for g using any cheat. Then do not allow them to buy another account.
    Post edited by Axlerod1 on
  • GenCuster
    121 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    the basic problem is not 'that the anticheat does not work ..... I think instead is that even if they are discovered ... the first time they are warned not to do it again .... the second time they are still warned not to do it again .... the third time they are not discovered because 'lower the level of cheat at the limit of the firefigher ..... and if they are also discovered and banned buy another acount in Origin Access at a cost of € 3.99 and start immediately thwarting the work of the anticheat ..... and 'true EA collects another € 3.99 but certainly the corporate image is affected ....
    After this return to say something proactive .... alongside the anticheat a group of controllers who enter live to control the servers continuously ... should not be a problem of money ..... it would be enough to entrust it to a group of internships that certainly would do it at low cost, also creating a sort of selection in the next programmers DICE ..... purposeful ... not just criticizing
  • evriviadis
    44 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    in the other side there milions spending on companies who sell cheats undetectable for the cheaters.its like changing your graffic card man every time a new game is on.new anticheat sustem new cheats undetectable coming up.also admins and gaming clans are responsible for hiding cheaters.they should be banned too
  • Pelliy
    2228 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    GenCuster wrote: »
    the basic problem is not 'that the anticheat does not work ..... I think instead is that even if they are discovered ... the first time they are warned not to do it again .... the second time they are still warned not to do it again .... the third time they are not discovered because 'lower the level of cheat at the limit of the firefigher ..... and if they are also discovered and banned buy another acount in Origin Access at a cost of € 3.99 and start immediately thwarting the work of the anticheat ..... and 'true EA collects another € 3.99 but certainly the corporate image is affected ....
    After this return to say something proactive .... alongside the anticheat a group of controllers who enter live to control the servers continuously ... should not be a problem of money ..... it would be enough to entrust it to a group of internships that certainly would do it at low cost, also creating a sort of selection in the next programmers DICE ..... purposeful ... not just criticizing

    Bfv permanently bans on first offense
  • Axlerod1
    1384 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Pelliy wrote: »
    GenCuster wrote: »
    the basic problem is not 'that the anticheat does not work ..... I think instead is that even if they are discovered ... the first time they are warned not to do it again .... the second time they are still warned not to do it again .... the third time they are not discovered because 'lower the level of cheat at the limit of the firefigher ..... and if they are also discovered and banned buy another acount in Origin Access at a cost of € 3.99 and start immediately thwarting the work of the anticheat ..... and 'true EA collects another € 3.99 but certainly the corporate image is affected ....
    After this return to say something proactive .... alongside the anticheat a group of controllers who enter live to control the servers continuously ... should not be a problem of money ..... it would be enough to entrust it to a group of internships that certainly would do it at low cost, also creating a sort of selection in the next programmers DICE ..... purposeful ... not just criticizing

    Bfv permanently bans on first offense

    If you believe that then I am the Easter bunny!
  • LOLGotYerTags
    13703 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    Axlerod1 wrote: »
    If you believe that then I am the Easter bunny!

    Stop hiding my damned chocolate eggs.
This discussion has been closed.