Time for a new look at TTK?

Comments

  • ackers75
    2477 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    0SiGHT0 wrote: »
    Time to kill has never been a problem in this game. The real complaints are the awful netcode designed by people who don't know what they're doing, and a weapon balance system that has created guns with practically zero recoil and extremely high damage at range.

    Yep the problem is the netcode still.
    They tried to mitigate the issue by increasing time to kill but it was never gonna work.

    People are dying faster due to bullet stacking
  • MarxistDictator
    4967 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Yeah the TTK adjustment didn't affect the feeling of instant death because you could still rack off a bunch of shots with almost no recoil or spread to deal with. Until there's an actual nuance to the gunplay and not 'trigger spam at max speed' this will be the case.
  • BFB-LeCharybdis
    857 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Definitely increase the TTK, it'll put less strain on the NetCode.
  • full951
    2465 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Definitely increase the TTK, it'll put less strain on the NetCode.

    I would like to know how more data over the network would put less strain on the net code. please explain
  • StingX71
    818 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    If you had a longer TTK some of the slower ROF weapons become more viable. We would see less things like 2 BTK SLR having a slower TTK then 4 BTK SA. Even 4 BTK with a slow ROF SMG might even be able to compete at short range with SA or AR.

    When they changed to a longer time to kill, the opposite was proven. Slower ROF weapons were put at an even greater disadvantage. Medics in particular became even less useful.
    Trokey66 wrote: »

    People often refer to BF4 TTK and 'on paper' they are similar but then fail to account for spread mechanics including suppression affects.

    As you say, actual TTK because of that is often a bullet or 2, maybe more, higher.

    As to attrition, I don't mind the mechanic as such but do feel it should perhaps be one or the other at times. With fast TTK, reduce/remove it or keep it and extend TTK.

    I'm playing both quite a bit, at least for assault, both feel similar to me. Sights in BF4 are much better than those in BFV imho which seems to make up for suppression/bullet spread affects. I tend to be a strong medium/semi-long ranger player find going between BF4 to V seamless.

    What sucks about BF4.....I keep spamming the C key to self heal but it ain't happening. :D Also miss not being able to revive squad mates. I really like how you auto heal/get ammo though.
  • Delta245
    109 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Ttk is not the problem it actually feels really good, it’s the (netcode) latency discrepancy that they can’t seem to find a solution For or refuse to.
  • Zenga
    164 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 wrote: »
    To me they need to reign in the damage of DMRs and MMGs.

    The damage of MMGs is already reigned in, because unlike assault weapons, they have so many downfalls it's just bizarre compared to the rest of the game's armory:
    • must be bipodded to ADS
    • must be static while shooting
    • the only weapons in the game that have overheat mechanic
    • absolutely no scopes of any kind
    • huge recoil
    • accuracy below 5%
    • have no suppression
    • loud, bright and extremely easy to spot where the fire is coming from, so basically a free headshot for anyone interested
    They have also been nerfed THREE times so far. Enough is enough.
  • DingoKillr
    3734 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 11
    StingX71 wrote: »
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    If you had a longer TTK some of the slower ROF weapons become more viable. We would see less things like 2 BTK SLR having a slower TTK then 4 BTK SA. Even 4 BTK with a slow ROF SMG might even be able to compete at short range with SA or AR.

    When they changed to a longer time to kill, the opposite was proven. Slower ROF weapons were put at an even greater disadvantage. Medics in particular became even less useful.
    Trokey66 wrote: »

    People often refer to BF4 TTK and 'on paper' they are similar but then fail to account for spread mechanics including suppression affects.

    As you say, actual TTK because of that is often a bullet or 2, maybe more, higher.

    As to attrition, I don't mind the mechanic as such but do feel it should perhaps be one or the other at times. With fast TTK, reduce/remove it or keep it and extend TTK.

    I'm playing both quite a bit, at least for assault, both feel similar to me. Sights in BF4 are much better than those in BFV imho which seems to make up for suppression/bullet spread affects. I tend to be a strong medium/semi-long ranger player find going between BF4 to V seamless.

    What sucks about BF4.....I keep spamming the C key to self heal but it ain't happening. :D Also miss not being able to revive squad mates. I really like how you auto heal/get ammo though.

    No, what it proved was that a flat BTK increase to automatic weapons makes no difference.
    A 4 BTK @ 500rpm and 4 BTK @ 800rpm v 5 BTK @ 500rpm and 5 BTK @ 800rpm just highlight the imbalance in autos however weapons like BA, SLR, Shotgun and even pistols it did make a difference.

    As others have said practical TTK is different to theoretical but that involves spread and recoil, that depends on when things like that kick in. Take BA recoil only kicks in after the shot however past BF BA crosshairs always centered, in BFV it now has an offset which increase their TTK on the 2nd shot. Which is part of the issue in BFV where SA have recoil which is only significant after a few rounds have been fired. So other means like not every weapon in the same class having the same BTK, like a 4 BTK @ 500rpm and 5 BTK @ 800rpm should be considered.
  • von_Campenstein
    6571 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Superfast TTK could've been interesting if they had the wares to handle it but somewhere there is a weak link, whatever it is causing that TTD, making it all very unappealing.

    Automatic weapons with laser accuracy and scopes doesn't help, at all.
  • Feuerfinger
    20 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 wrote: »
    You try to cross any kind of open ground you are dead without any chance to react or any chance to fight back.

    This is not DMR-specific. In that situation a StG44, KE-7 or MMG will not give you a chance either.

  • GRAW2ROBZ
    2078 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I prefer fast kills. Reason hardline gun fights were way better then BF1/BF5. Heck BF3 Dice nerfed like every weapon in the game to force a good chunk of the community to hardcore.
  • MarxistDictator
    4967 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 11
    That was BF4, BF3 never adjusted bullet damage for anything but the PDWs and 7.62 guns they nerfed and then unnerfed except the SCAR H. They mucked with multipliers to make the bolt guns a short range OHK not damage.

    Hardline was a lot of fun because it had a much smoother online, even with fast TTK I did not instantly die with no opportunity to even notice I was getting shot at.
  • GRAW2ROBZ
    2078 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 11
    That was BF4, BF3 never adjusted bullet damage for anything but the PDWs and 7.62 guns they nerfed and then unnerfed except the SCAR H.

    Hardline was a lot of fun because it had a much smoother online, even with fast TTK I did not instantly die with no opportunity to even notice I was getting shot at.

    93R was nerfed on BF3 for consoles. Heck I could use that on metro as the primary and go on a monster killing streak easily. Also server pings were garbage with a ton of out of region players flocking to USA servers. No wonder most ran with the assault rifles them were op. Bad Company 2 and Hardline still have the best bullet damage. Heck even the server pings got worse for Medal of Honor Warfighter each month. EA just wanted to kill that game off. I believe the mortar was nerfed as well. Plenty of others but barely remember. I just know it got lame fast and a ton of my friends went to hardcore. Then I went back to Bad Company 2.
    Post edited by GRAW2ROBZ on
  • MarxistDictator
    4967 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I forgot about that thing. That was a DICE move though since the 93r started out with the same damage as the G18, they buffed it because no one used it. Then it was nerfed the next update because it was literally the AEK 971 as a pistol.


    The assault rifles in BF3 weren't that broken until they buffed the heavy barrel attachment, prior to that they actually performed like medium range guns.
  • CPTN-Cr4ptastic
    1704 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Nope, I like the current TTK, and while I really wasn't too effected by the TTD bug, I have become used to it and it doesn't even bother me anymore. No need to be messing with any of that stuff right now, all making major changes to the gun play at this point in time would do is create another community melt down of epic proportions.
  • diagoro
    1559 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    TTK/TTD tweaks are pointless untill Dice faces reality and properly addresses the netcode/lag compensation/ping limit issues.

    I like the TTK changes, but have adapted. What's worse is the near constant one-shot deaths (often by non one shot kills weapons/non headshots). It's a plague on this game, where just one person with a 100+ latency/ping degrades the server.

    Think about that.....just ONE!

    Dice have danced around this issue for years, even though pkayers have been vocally begging for a proper fix, with some of the longest threads in the BF forum's history.

    Proof? A ping cap was instituted in BF1, and gameplay was amazing. That vocal minority complained, and after one glorious week the changes were reverted. See a pattern?

    The recent netcode changes made my experience worse. Only time I DON'T experience issues is noted above, but sadly it's rare, especially on a 64 player mode.

  • MarxistDictator
    4967 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    DICE would rather have a minority of people able to play out of region and at well over 100 ping than let the people in region have an 'advantage' (they literally implied that this is unfair if connection quality actually matters).

    Its a good thing this game was made for out of region players, aimbot using 'hacker' pros and the lead designer's daughter and if you don't like it don't buy it.
  • GRAW2ROBZ
    2078 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    diagoro wrote: »
    TTK/TTD tweaks are pointless untill Dice faces reality and properly addresses the netcode/lag compensation/ping limit issues.

    I like the TTK changes, but have adapted. What's worse is the near constant one-shot deaths (often by non one shot kills weapons/non headshots). It's a plague on this game, where just one person with a 100+ latency/ping degrades the server.

    Think about that.....just ONE!

    Dice have danced around this issue for years, even though pkayers have been vocally begging for a proper fix, with some of the longest threads in the BF forum's history.

    Proof? A ping cap was instituted in BF1, and gameplay was amazing. That vocal minority complained, and after one glorious week the changes were reverted. See a pattern?

    The recent netcode changes made my experience worse. Only time I DON'T experience issues is noted above, but sadly it's rare, especially on a 64 player mode.

    You ever play Medal of honor Warfighter? EA let their servers go down the drain fast with lousy netcoding and pings and lag compensation on that game. Each month the netcoding and server pings got worse.
  • DingoKillr
    3734 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Nope, I like the current TTK, and while I really wasn't too effected by the TTD bug, I have become used to it and it doesn't even bother me anymore. No need to be messing with any of that stuff right now, all making major changes to the gun play at this point in time would do is create another community melt down of epic proportions.
    I do find that logic perplexing how it is not fine to make major changes in first 6 months but after 2 years it is ok. With that same logic the yappers and followers insisted it would take months to relearn a game that had been out for 2 months. Yet in BF1 they said it would only take days.
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