Time for a new look at TTK?

Comments

  • Astr0damus
    2901 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    But if you round the corner and I see you first and I fire first.. why should you kill me? My first shots should be giving you suppression/confusion/migraine followed by death. TTK seems fine to me. If someone gets the drop on me, unless I'm carrying a 12g and I'm within 3 meters, they should get the kill.
  • bran1986
    5646 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Astr0damus wrote: »
    But if you round the corner and I see you first and I fire first.. why should you kill me? My first shots should be giving you suppression/confusion/migraine followed by death. TTK seems fine to me. If someone gets the drop on me, unless I'm carrying a 12g and I'm within 3 meters, they should get the kill.

    I agree somewhat but if I'm running a smg and I catch you with a dmr, you should be up **** creek, but a DMR user can hip fire and smoke a smg user. I think the ttk is fine in cqb but dmrs in cqb and at midrange are broken.
  • Astr0damus
    2901 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    What is DMR? (sorry I've never heard this acronym)
  • aRrAyStArTaT0
    786 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    The main problem I have with TTK is that most guns can kill you in under half a second without any lag or latency. I guess every bullet is a super bullet if you die in 3 bullets from a gun with a 600 RPM fire rate, little recoil, sniper-like accuracy, and sight zoom to make it easier across a map.
    .
    I mean, seriously. Who thought a 2 hit kill (crit + body) was a great idea at infinite range on DMRs? And then who decided it was a good idea to "nerf" the guns by "reducing" their damage from 40->36.6? Like, 3 hit kill to 3 hit kill without accuracy? Sounds like a reasonable nerf to me!
    .
    Assault is the main culprit in this. They have the strongest guns in the game and quite a variety of variants that work at almost all ranges. Medics are locked to SMGs which are useless at medium-long range. Supports get LMGs that are, in themselves, pretty broken as well as MMGs and Shotguns, both are useless in most situations. Snipers are locked to, well, snipers. Bolt action rifles are useless in close quarters unless you get lucky with a headshot (because apparently having 1 hit body shots in ranges < 20m is unbalanced, but I can see why with the ability to use iron sights on them, making body shots extremely easy at close range). SLRs are the useful snipers, but they can't 1 hit kill. They're basically DMRs with a lower mag size + 6x scope potential. Pretty pointless imo.
    .
    The entire gun balance is dumb right now. I don't know who likes this or even suggested it, but they've made Battlefield worse for it.
    .
    Look at BF4. All guns have good reasonable recoil. Suppression makes sense and accuracy is significantly lowered when you're being suppressed (which is a good thing in the game). Snipers weren't trash and bolt actions didn't force you to unscope to put another round in (after an upgrade) and Recon + Medic + Support + Assault had access to all types of guns. They all had access to Carbines, Shotguns, and others. If you still wanted Recon's gadgets (spotting flare/Respawn beacon), you could have it while running a carbine. It made sense and contributed significantly to the balance of the game and the fun of playing each class how you wanted.
    .
    I don't understand why the developers took such a step back. BF4 was so great (after the bugs were ironed out). BFV doesn't even have that potential.
  • bran1986
    5646 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Astr0damus wrote: »
    What is DMR? (sorry I've never heard this acronym)

    Designated Marksman Rifle, the assault self loading rifles.
  • Astr0damus
    2901 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Is the Selb 1916 a DMR then? I know it is a semi-auto.. is semi-auto a different way of saying DMR?
  • bran1986
    5646 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Astr0damus wrote: »
    Is the Selb 1916 a DMR then? I know it is a semi-auto.. is semi-auto a different way of saying DMR?

    Pretty much lol. In the past semi autos were listed as DMRS so out of habit that is what I call them lol.
  • MarxistDictator
    4873 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    In BF1 they were SLRs. BF V just made a pointless distinction between the 2 to pretend that giving garbage versions of the semi auto rifles to scout helps him get into the action. Despite none of those rifles being as good as a BF1 RSC when all the other guns got massive buffs.
  • bran1986
    5646 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    In BF1 they were SLRs. BF V just made a pointless distinction between the 2 to pretend that giving garbage versions of the semi auto rifles to scout helps him get into the action. Despite none of those rifles being as good as a BF1 RSC when all the other guns got massive buffs.

    I got downvoted on reddit for saying the same thing lol.
  • onylra_II
    76 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Astr0damus wrote: »
    But if you round the corner and I see you first and I fire first.. why should you kill me?

    An increase in TTK applies across the board - not just to you. If you jump someone and they choose to stand and fight, you'll still kill them (all other things being equal) - if you lose, you got out-skilled by someone more accurate and have to hold the L (to the grave).

    What a longer TTK would mean, is that people, under normal gameplay conditions, have slightly longer to react to being shot by seeking cover, etc. That's it - marginally better survivability/reactability. Hopefully the TTK is still relatively equal (assuming good balance, which was not achieved in the temporary 'nerf').

    Have you not noticed that there's a noticeable lag, which exceeds typical reaction times, when you ping someone with a shot, and when they react to it? Maybe not, if you've never done any rudimentary testing - it's inevitable in an internet environment. Take your favourite SAR, and clip some dude who's not watching you once, then watch what they do. Most often they'll just stand there seemingly waiting for the next round to arrive for a crucial fraction of a second. Because their client hasn't updated them yet. You can murder someone in less time than it takes for your shots to be transmitted to your victims' client. EASILY. Let alone accounting for their innate reaction times when they EVENTUALLY receive the server update that lets them know they just died.

  • maggoo8
    24 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I agree with those who mentioned the week the TTK(xbox) increased was the most enjoyable time I have had on BFV. A fast TTK with low recoiling weapons and no bullet spread, wide open maps and netcode issues has resulted in a lot of people not willing to play the objectives anymore or at times move at all. It's just not logical to have a fast TTK under the above conditions, nor is it fun.

    Having said that, I think this is a good time to talk about the real issue and that is the decision by DICE to not allow custom servers in order to keep the community together. It's ridiculous in this era of gaming that players do not have the option to create a gameplay they will enjoy the most and probably a big reason for the decline in numbers. This ridiculous decision has created a range of issues with BFV and it appears DICE have not noticed.

    We have a solid discussion here about TTK(core conquest) but what's interesting is the players that prefer to play hardcore are forced to enter in this debate and obviously push their preference(Hardcore) onto core playlists and I don't really blame them, what other option do they have? So without custom playlists, these polls & discussions are not really accurate in terms of the core community because players that want to play custom games are forced to play core with the rest of us. Essentially DICE have managed to anger the core & hardcore community with a TTK that is either too fast or too slow in it's current state.

    This mentality to keep the community together needs to go, we should have the option to play the game the way we want.
  • Sixclicks
    5073 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 wrote: »
    In BF1 they were SLRs. BF V just made a pointless distinction between the 2 to pretend that giving garbage versions of the semi auto rifles to scout helps him get into the action. Despite none of those rifles being as good as a BF1 RSC when all the other guns got massive buffs.

    I got downvoted on reddit for saying the same thing lol.

    Reddit is extremely anti-Recon.
  • Zenga
    164 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I would argue that in majority of cases there is simply zero time to react. And super bullets are just as rampant as before. What practical difference does it make if a server will one-shot me or spread out 5 bullets across 0.2sec? Absolutely none. You can't react to either.
  • bran1986
    5646 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    bran1986 wrote: »
    In BF1 they were SLRs. BF V just made a pointless distinction between the 2 to pretend that giving garbage versions of the semi auto rifles to scout helps him get into the action. Despite none of those rifles being as good as a BF1 RSC when all the other guns got massive buffs.

    I got downvoted on reddit for saying the same thing lol.

    Reddit is extremely anti-Recon.

    And medic. Most issues brought up against assault gets downvoted to hell and back.
  • filthmcnasty
    421 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    No. Keep the TTK as is. If I want bullet sponges I'll play BF1
  • DingoKillr
    3506 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 12
    In real life
    Designated Marksman Rifle is not the same as Semi-Auto Rifle or Self-Loading Rifle.

    DMR is a post ww2 term for a role covering different weapon types while a SAR and SLR descripe a weapon type.

    DMR can be bolt action thru to full automatic, as long as the gun can be fired rapidly and accurately at range.

    The difference between SAR and SLR is either manufacture naming or common usage(military or country naming)
  • Sixclicks
    5073 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 12
    bran1986 wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    bran1986 wrote: »
    In BF1 they were SLRs. BF V just made a pointless distinction between the 2 to pretend that giving garbage versions of the semi auto rifles to scout helps him get into the action. Despite none of those rifles being as good as a BF1 RSC when all the other guns got massive buffs.

    I got downvoted on reddit for saying the same thing lol.

    Reddit is extremely anti-Recon.

    And medic. Most issues brought up against assault gets downvoted to hell and back.

    This whole thread would be downvoted out of existence on Reddit. Opinions that go against the herd are not allowed.

    Which is why it's always been a terrible forum for actual discussion between opposing viewpoints. Reddit has its merits, but not for fair discussion.
  • DyD6Marina
    548 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 12
    It's sad people can't adapt to a gameplay need more reflex, awareness, map knowledge and skill.

    Bad game like bf1 really ruined players.

    Stop rushing like cod player and you will not get problem from a quicker TTK.

    A funny thing is bf3-bf4 have a nearly identical ttk or even more quicker on some weapons of bf3, but suppression ruined all.

    There are many people, even in this thread, lying about ttk too quick, for some reason and this is even more sad.



    Simple comparison can be done on Assault "dmr" weapon of Battlefield V compared to dmr of Battlefield 3.

    Battlefield 3 ranges from 209ms/215ms/240ms-372ms, Battlefield V ranges from 320ms-384ms.

    Here honest people can find all the numbers.

    http://symthic.com/bf3-ttk-charts?class=4&mode=co

    https://www.reddit.com/r/BattlefieldV/comments/aqg3m1/battlefield_v_lightning_strikes_part_iii/



    And console players is better they abstain from commenting on ttk, considered the bad state of console server, they must start to pressure to EA/Dice to finally give 60hz even on console, every time a play with friends on console(ps4) is a pain.

    With good servers console players will see a "slower ttk".
  • ael1as
    16 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    Nope, I like the current TTK, and while I really wasn't too effected by the TTD bug, I have become used to it and it doesn't even bother me anymore. No need to be messing with any of that stuff right now, all making major changes to the gun play at this point in time would do is create another community melt down of epic proportions.
    I do find that logic perplexing how it is not fine to make major changes in first 6 months but after 2 years it is ok. With that same logic the yappers and followers insisted it would take months to relearn a game that had been out for 2 months. Yet in BF1 they said it would only take days.

    It's not perplexing, facts are facts. The overwhelming majority of players like the current TTK and overall gun play in this game, as was made painfully obvious when Dice tried to change it. So much so, that Dice reverted back in just one week. It is what it is, some people just wont accept it. So I ask you, what would be the logic in Dice changing the TTK for the sake of the clear minority here in this forum? Any way that you want to look at it, there is no pleasing everybody, so I'm sure these discussions will persist until the game eventually dies.

    you should consider that the loudest voice is not always the majority voice
    what about all the people who stopped playing this game? What if we add that number to the current TTK opponents?

    the plain fact is that the game is considered not funny from a good amount of people still playing it and from even larger amount of player who stopped to play it
    and the TTK is a key factor, not unique, but a factor with deep impact on gameplay

    the current TTK suppresses movements over the map, it favors camping and defensive gameplay, it endevours people to do their own game instead of playing the gamemode

    and now look at this honest video by TheBrokenMachine 2m19s and 5m16s

    Battlefield 5 not fun enough?
    "There is just too much risk in moving around in this game, it becomes incredibly unbalanced"

    Quoting TheBrokenMachine in his video is the best way to synthesize the problem we still have in BFV.
    "when they changed it i didnt like it, looking back....personally I think a slightly higher TTK...could actually improve the game "

    He is honestly admitting that he is changing his mind with regard the TTK question.





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