Time for a new look at TTK?

Comments

  • onylra_II
    76 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Yeah, I don't really bother gun-fighting anymore - either I jump you and mow you, or I run away. Higher TTK actually increases the skill-gap, because HS crits and good handling become more influential to outcomes. People like easy kills though, so they will defend it to the bitter end.
  • CHAMMOND1992
    1090 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    NLBartmaN wrote: »
    DyD6Marina wrote: »

    Lose casuals for a game is always a good thing.


    This game is easymode compared to BF1.

    Slow movement, slow aim speed, strong aim assist. Nah, I don't think so.
  • Pelliy
    2228 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    VVaxDaddy wrote: »
    DyD6Marina wrote: »
    DyD6Marina wrote: »
    It's sad people can't adapt to a gameplay need more reflex, awareness, map knowledge and skill
    It's sad people keep trotting out this 'argument' to supposedly support low TTK.

    ANY shooter needs reflex, awareness, map knowledge and skill.

    A low TTK shooter *relies* on reflex (twitch) and map knowledge (hiding and camping?). Skill? Depends if you consider muscle memorising recoil patterns 'skill'.

    Some would say a higher TTK requires more skill and allows for more tactics, because you don't just die to whoever sees you first, you have time to use cover or movement.

    Too subjective.

    I can adapt to lower TTK and all the other weird design choices in BF5. It's just not fun.
    DyD6Marina wrote: »
    Bad game like bf1 really ruined players.
    Subjective. Low TTK turns players into twitch frenzy zergers and campers and 'ruined' them. Is that statement any more or less reasonable?
    DyD6Marina wrote: »
    Stop rushing like cod player and you will not get problem from a quicker TTK.
    Headless chicken play is bad with any TTK. Some would say that low TTK means it's more viable, since the final encounter is so quick it doesn't much matter how you get there as long as your trigger finger is faster.
    DyD6Marina wrote: »
    A funny thing is bf3-bf4 have a nearly identical ttk or even more quicker on some weapons of bf3, but suppression ruined all.

    There are many people, even in this thread, lying about ttk too quick, for some reason and this is even more sad.
    There are many aspects. BF3 may have had similar strict TTK, but a very different TTD due to things like attrition. In BF5 there are so many detrimental mechanics that the technical TTK of weapons is only the final part of the equation. Because accuracy is so good on some weapons the *possible* TTK and the *probably* TTK are very similar. What people perceive as 'low TTK' may not be strictly technically much different from previous games, but all things considered is much different.
    DyD6Marina wrote: »
    With good servers console players will see a "slower ttk".
    Possibly true. There are many contributing factors to people feeling that TTK is too low. PC players feel it too, though.


    Low TTK punish bad players , rushers and even campers, if you known the map, you can kill easily even a camper.

    There is no aspect of low ttk to be objectively wrong if not for people want easier game for a reason or another.

    Even the older Battlefield have low ttk, Battlefield 2 have even one shot headshot on some assault rifle and lmg

    Attrition, or better Partial Health Regen, is a good change for make the game more challenge, make people think before moving and make more important the medics.

    This is how older Battlefield worked, even more because of the no health regen, casual battlefield have full health regen.

    This the biggest problem, too many casuals come to the Battlefield series, after the series come to consoles and become more easy.

    People like this must be ignored to make the series regain is identity instead continue to appeal cod/casual players.

    It's a PvP game. TTK changes are only going to change that interaction, it doesn't make the game less casual or punish casuals. The game is in general still just as hard as your opponents and it takes a radical change to actually affect the skill floor or ceiling. In fact you can argue from BF1 to BFV if anything the game is more casual as the guns in this game are ridiculously easy to use.

    To piggyback on this I find it hilarious you then call out attrition as a great mechanic when it is in fact lowers the skill ceiling by forcing good players who live longer to adopt a certain playstyle. Also with permanent health stations and squad revives medics are as unimportant as ever.

    Also low ttk in absolutely no fashion punishes campers. Come on man.

    I think you should probably look deeper into the consequence of every change in gameplay as opposed to just lower ttk is more skill. It's a completely dishonest argument, plenty of skilled games have higher ttk.

    exactly. To put it into perspective. COD blackout 4 ttk is longer. QUAKE ttk is longer. No one says quake doesn't take skill. COD and quake take more tracking skill where you have to be on target. It's just a different type of skillsets being highlighted. I bought into the whole short ttk makes for better skill too early on, but around the alpha 2 time, I realize that it was a load of hogwash. Drunkzze said the same thing I just said bout ttk all depending on the game and highlighting different parts of skillsets in his livestream when the game first launched.

    People need to take the glasses off. increasing the TTK would not make the game less skillful. It just has to be done in a tactile manner. It can't be hodgepodged thrown together the way it was back in December. It's better just to take it to CTE, test it for several LONG months before releasing it.
  • SpinachVsKale
    185 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I'm all in favor for TTK to be looked at again. Lets just hope if they do change it they go about it the right way.
  • SirTerrible
    1687 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I'm kinda torn on this. To me the CQC TTK feels fine but it's maybe too easy to quickly spam at range for kills, especially with the Assault semi autos. I think I'd rather see them tweak other things like adding spread increase per shot to the semi autos first, that would lead to slower deaths at range without technically touching weapon damage. I wish there was a CTE for BFV to test this type of stuff first.
  • maggoo8
    24 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I just don't understand the arguments in support of a lower TTK making the game more skilled. It appears people believe it takes more skill to shoot an enemy less. It's definitely hilarious that's for sure. The character movement is slow? I would also argue that the character movement was slower in BF1 & BF4. Some players don't want rushers to be able to run around the map and survive. Are these so called rushers not actually playing the objective and therefore doing what the game mode requires? Attacking objectives and capturing them for their team? No we certainly don't want that in BFV.

    If you're not skilful enough to put one or two more bullets into your target when they are on the move, then maybe you don't deserve the kill but BFV rewards you with the kill anyway. Do we want to define skill by the way players are forced to move around wide open maps checking for enemies that you can't see proned with laser beams that have no recoil or should it be about weapon management? Unfortunately the skill requirement for using guns in this game is all but gone compared to other BF titles I have played. The gunplay in this game is about as shallow as I have ever experienced in any game I have played.

    I think it's easier to get kills in BFV than it ever was in BF1 & BF4 but having said that it is a lot less satisfying and fun.
  • GrizzGolf
    960 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    I think it should be slowed down a little bit
  • bran1986
    5648 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    I'm kinda torn on this. To me the CQC TTK feels fine but it's maybe too easy to quickly spam at range for kills, especially with the Assault semi autos. I think I'd rather see them tweak other things like adding spread increase per shot to the semi autos first, that would lead to slower deaths at range without technically touching weapon damage. I wish there was a CTE for BFV to test this type of stuff first.

    Exactly. Mid range is where the issues are for me. Making the assault semi autos like they were in BF1 would fix a lot of issues.
  • CHAMMOND1992
    1090 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    NLBartmaN wrote: »

    Slow movement, slow aim speed, strong aim assist. Nah, I don't think so.

    ADAD spam, laser accuracy, barely recoil, 3x scope without glint, almost no bullits needed to kill, easy to hide and camp, no vehicles that can harm you ...

    Yeah, I do think so.

    Not one of the things you mentioned gimps good players.
  • sabootheshaman
    1039 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    NLBartmaN wrote: »

    Slow movement, slow aim speed, strong aim assist. Nah, I don't think so.

    ADAD spam, laser accuracy, barely recoil, 3x scope without glint, almost no bullits needed to kill, easy to hide and camp, no vehicles that can harm you ...

    Yeah, I do think so.

    According to your stats your a ps4 player.... Hows the ADAD spam?
  • Trokey66
    8246 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    NLBartmaN wrote: »

    Slow movement, slow aim speed, strong aim assist. Nah, I don't think so.

    ADAD spam, laser accuracy, barely recoil, 3x scope without glint, almost no bullits needed to kill, easy to hide and camp, no vehicles that can harm you ...

    Yeah, I do think so.

    According to your stats your a ps4 player.... Hows the ADAD spam?

    Again, XIM says hello......
  • Pelliy
    2228 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    NLBartmaN wrote: »

    Slow movement, slow aim speed, strong aim assist. Nah, I don't think so.

    ADAD spam, laser accuracy, barely recoil, 3x scope without glint, almost no bullits needed to kill, easy to hide and camp, no vehicles that can harm you ...

    Yeah, I do think so.

    According to your stats your a ps4 player.... Hows the ADAD spam?

    Again, XIM says hello......

    What makes adad an issue is the tick rate. Adad isn't an issue on 30hz servers
  • Trokey66
    8246 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Pelliy wrote: »
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    NLBartmaN wrote: »

    Slow movement, slow aim speed, strong aim assist. Nah, I don't think so.

    ADAD spam, laser accuracy, barely recoil, 3x scope without glint, almost no bullits needed to kill, easy to hide and camp, no vehicles that can harm you ...

    Yeah, I do think so.

    According to your stats your a ps4 player.... Hows the ADAD spam?

    Again, XIM says hello......

    What makes adad an issue is the tick rate. Adad isn't an issue on 30hz servers

    Really? OK.

    So what makes.players jerk rapidly left and right on console?

    It may not be as prevelant or severe as on PC, but it occurs.
  • DyD6Marina
    548 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 13
    It's impressive how many people need to lying about how TTK work and even the game in general.

    Really there is so much need of an higher ttk to make the game more easie, to get to lying for some players?

    I think this players must stop to play this game like cod or fortnite and start to think before rushing and at least learn the maps.
  • DyD6Marina
    548 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    maggoo8 wrote: »
    I just don't understand the arguments in support of a lower TTK making the game more skilled. It appears people believe it takes more skill to shoot an enemy less. It's definitely hilarious that's for sure. The character movement is slow? I would also argue that the character movement was slower in BF1 & BF4. Some players don't want rushers to be able to run around the map and survive. Are these so called rushers not actually playing the objective and therefore doing what the game mode requires? Attacking objectives and capturing them for their team? No we certainly don't want that in BFV.

    If you're not skilful enough to put one or two more bullets into your target when they are on the move, then maybe you don't deserve the kill but BFV rewards you with the kill anyway. Do we want to define skill by the way players are forced to move around wide open maps checking for enemies that you can't see proned with laser beams that have no recoil or should it be about weapon management? Unfortunately the skill requirement for using guns in this game is all but gone compared to other BF titles I have played. The gunplay in this game is about as shallow as I have ever experienced in any game I have played.

    I think it's easier to get kills in BFV than it ever was in BF1 & BF4 but having said that it is a lot less satisfying and fun.

    A comment like this show all the wrong ideas are in some players.

    You are really confused, first on movement, in bf4 rushing was alot more quick and side step different is irrilevant.



    No rushers are only play this game like cod, a Battlefield you must move slow to objective, think, check the maps, kill enemies from distance and than advance to objective, if you want a cod there is cod.

    Again two bullet more is only a way to save the rushers, not need more skill, reflex and quick accuracy is a skill, not correcting aim after errors and give rushers a chance to run away.

    The gunplay need skill now, more quick accuracy, more reflex, i can understand can be difficult to control it, but Battlefield can't be a cod-like game anymore.

    Ah cod and casuals battlefield really ruined alot this community.
  • DyD6Marina
    548 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 13
    maggoo8 wrote: »
    I just don't understand the arguments in support of a lower TTK making the game more skilled. It appears people believe it takes more skill to shoot an enemy less. It's definitely hilarious that's for sure. The character movement is slow? I would also argue that the character movement was slower in BF1 & BF4. Some players don't want rushers to be able to run around the map and survive. Are these so called rushers not actually playing the objective and therefore doing what the game mode requires? Attacking objectives and capturing them for their team? No we certainly don't want that in BFV.

    If you're not skilful enough to put one or two more bullets into your target when they are on the move, then maybe you don't deserve the kill but BFV rewards you with the kill anyway. Do we want to define skill by the way players are forced to move around wide open maps checking for enemies that you can't see proned with laser beams that have no recoil or should it be about weapon management? Unfortunately the skill requirement for using guns in this game is all but gone compared to other BF titles I have played. The gunplay in this game is about as shallow as I have ever experienced in any game I have played.

    I think it's easier to get kills in BFV than it ever was in BF1 & BF4 but having said that it is a lot less satisfying and fun.

    A comment like this show all the wrong ideas are in some players.

    You are really confused, first on movement, in bf4 rushing was alot more quick and side step different is irrilevant.



    No rushers are only play this game like cod, a Battlefield you must move slow to objective, think, check the maps, kill enemies from distance and than advance to objective, if you want a cod there is cod.

    Again two bullet more is only a way to save the rushers, not need more skill, reflex and quick accuracy is a skill, not correcting aim after errors and give rushers a chance to run away.

    The gunplay need skill now, more quick accuracy, more reflex, i can understand can be difficult to control it, but Battlefield can't be a cod-like game anymore and lying about it not change the situation.


    It's incredible how casuals game like cod, casuals battlefield and fortnite ruined this community.
  • sabootheshaman
    1039 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    NLBartmaN wrote: »

    Slow movement, slow aim speed, strong aim assist. Nah, I don't think so.

    ADAD spam, laser accuracy, barely recoil, 3x scope without glint, almost no bullits needed to kill, easy to hide and camp, no vehicles that can harm you ...

    Yeah, I do think so.

    According to your stats your a ps4 player.... Hows the ADAD spam?

    Again, XIM says hello......

    I’m well aware of the XIM. If the person I’m addressing is using one then his stats say that a higher ttk ain’t gonna help much.
  • DingoKillr
    3506 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    DyD6Marina wrote: »
    maggoo8 wrote: »
    I just don't understand the arguments in support of a lower TTK making the game more skilled. It appears people believe it takes more skill to shoot an enemy less. It's definitely hilarious that's for sure. The character movement is slow? I would also argue that the character movement was slower in BF1 & BF4. Some players don't want rushers to be able to run around the map and survive. Are these so called rushers not actually playing the objective and therefore doing what the game mode requires? Attacking objectives and capturing them for their team? No we certainly don't want that in BFV.

    If you're not skilful enough to put one or two more bullets into your target when they are on the move, then maybe you don't deserve the kill but BFV rewards you with the kill anyway. Do we want to define skill by the way players are forced to move around wide open maps checking for enemies that you can't see proned with laser beams that have no recoil or should it be about weapon management? Unfortunately the skill requirement for using guns in this game is all but gone compared to other BF titles I have played. The gunplay in this game is about as shallow as I have ever experienced in any game I have played.

    I think it's easier to get kills in BFV than it ever was in BF1 & BF4 but having said that it is a lot less satisfying and fun.

    A comment like this show all the wrong ideas are in some players.

    You are really confused, first on movement, in bf4 rushing was alot more quick and side step different is irrilevant.



    No rushers are only play this game like cod, a Battlefield you must move slow to objective, think, check the maps, kill enemies from distance and than advance to objective, if you want a cod there is cod.

    Again two bullet more is only a way to save the rushers, not need more skill, reflex and quick accuracy is a skill, not correcting aim after errors and give rushers a chance to run away.

    The gunplay need skill now, more quick accuracy, more reflex, i can understand can be difficult to control it, but Battlefield can't be a cod-like game anymore and lying about it not change the situation.


    It's incredible how casuals game like cod, casuals battlefield and fortnite ruined this community.
    What is quick accuracy? Player skill or weapons stat.

    BA are the only weapon in BFV that requires player accuracy, while SAR and AR it is the weapons that provide the accuracy. The other weapon classes are inbetween.

    Reflex is a cheap skill, when ttk is fast. Reflex is more important when it is a slower ttk as you might need to adjust your aim.

    Calling other liars while sprouting on about a extra 2BTK, I have not seen 1 person in this thread ask for that.
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