Time for a new look at TTK?

Comments

  • trip1ex
    4694 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    DyD6Marina wrote: »
    trip1ex wrote: »
    DyD6Marina wrote: »
    DyD6Marina wrote: »
    Sigh, is sad how casuals games ruined so many players.

    Now i understand why Dice mostly ignore this forum, too much little and too much used to casual gameplay.

    No chance to make to them understand how the Battlefield V changes like recoil pattern and removal of random deviation work and how much they raised the skill in this game.

    What you're missing here dude, is that BF is NOT Squad, or some dead PC niche game, not many want to play. But that's exactly what its become, and we're not gonna play it, until it gets back to what BF was all about, and that about FUN. Not "tactics", and Rainbow 6 with 12 players cleaning out rooms. That will just never work here, and has not.


    Again you confirm you never played a Battlefield before they become casual.

    You do realize casual is a meaningless word?

    Only for people not know how the games work/worked.

    No it's meaningless to the rest of us too not just yourself.
  • ael1as
    16 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    DyD6Marina wrote: »
    You know the older Battlefield was all about defensive gameplay and teamplay.

    Like Battlefield V...

    WHAT? serious?
    BF2 defensive?
    BF2 was all about rushing fast with the best vehicles you can have, pushing flag by flag without stopping
    I remember clanwars on Karkand, conquest assault mode, lasted around 2 minutes pour side

    Snipers and prone machine gunners were totally unuseful in competitive BF2 given the fast pace of the game

    so...I really don't get your point, but thank you because you are helping this topic even if you think the opposite

  • DyD6Marina
    548 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 13
    ael1as wrote: »
    DyD6Marina wrote: »
    You know the older Battlefield was all about defensive gameplay and teamplay.

    Like Battlefield V...

    WHAT? serious?
    BF2 defensive?
    BF2 was all about rushing fast with the best vehicles you can have, pushing flag by flag without stopping
    I remember clanwars on Karkand, conquest assault mode, lasted around 2 minutes pour side

    Snipers and prone machine gunners were totally unuseful in competitive BF2 given the fast pace of the game

    so...I really don't get your point, but thank you because you are helping this topic even if you think the opposite

    Now i'm sure you are trolling, maybe you must know first what is a defensive gameplay(if you think only sniper and prone can play defensive you are wrong), than maybe you must play bf2.
  • DyD6Marina
    548 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 13
    Forget that dude, he's still yet to elaborate on what 'random' meant because he's just your typical BF V bushmonster waiting to punish others for trying to play the game. 'ha ha thats what u get for trying to rush n run and gun'

    Come on how i can take you seriously if you say you not know what is random.

    You can't be serious...

    I'm sure you are trolling but i will answer to you.

    Random in this case is when the bullet or weapon go to a casual direction even with the intervention of the players every time.

    An example, in bf1942(yes the first battlefield)-bf1, you can't really totally control the recoil, because the movement of weapon change everytime you shot.

    You can't totally control the spread because the pattern the bullet go are always different.

    To the spread you must add random deviation a casual offset to the bullet.

    You can control the size of "cone" where the bullet goes, with tapping fire or burst control, but there is always something based on random/luck.

    This make the gunplay more random, casual, the player never totally control the weapons and part of gunplay is always luck based.


    In Battlefield V this is changed.

    The recoil have a specific pattern for every weapons, you can mastered it and if you do good, totally nullify the recoil.

    The spread is added to recoil , bullet goes where the recoil move the weapon, then you can control totally even the spread.

    The random deviation is removed.


    In Battlefield V the gunplay is totally in the hand of the players, is the skill of the player and only the skill of the player to determinate where the bullet goes.

    Basically a semplified version of how CS:GO gunplay work.
  • mattd3162014
    313 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    The problem is not the ttk its the terrible directional damage indicators which sometimes show the wrong direction the atrocious audio design where you hear footsteps to your left and the enemy appears on your right and also the STILL broken kill cam which sometimes does not even show who or where you where killed from its as if god himself came down and killed you.LEAVE TTK alone.
  • MarxistDictator
    4875 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 13
    DyD6Marina wrote: »
    Forget that dude, he's still yet to elaborate on what 'random' meant because he's just your typical BF V bushmonster waiting to punish others for trying to play the game. 'ha ha thats what u get for trying to rush n run and gun'

    Come on how i can take you seriously if you say you not know what is random.

    You can't be serious...

    Yea you can either provide proof or continue to be wrong. Your call.


    I wanna watch it all fall apart in your complete inability to articulate what isn't actually a thing.
  • DyD6Marina
    548 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 13
    DyD6Marina wrote: »
    Forget that dude, he's still yet to elaborate on what 'random' meant because he's just your typical BF V bushmonster waiting to punish others for trying to play the game. 'ha ha thats what u get for trying to rush n run and gun'

    Come on how i can take you seriously if you say you not know what is random.

    You can't be serious...

    Yea you can either provide proof or continue to be wrong. Your call.


    I wanna watch it all fall apart in your complete inability to articulate what isn't actually a thing.

    Read up i answred to you.

    I would give you the benefit of doubt.
  • DyD6Marina
    548 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 13
    The problem is not the ttk its the terrible directional damage indicators which sometimes show the wrong direction the atrocious audio design where you hear footsteps to your left and the enemy appears on your right and also the STILL broken kill cam which sometimes does not even show who or where you where killed from its as if god himself came down and killed you.LEAVE TTK alone.

    Yes indicator specially on "angled" hit, have some big problem.

    I don't find the sound of footstep too bad, usually you have a generic indication of where the enemies is coming/going.

    Kill cam is good in this way, i don't like a cod kill cam, but a would to have a better kill card, with who shot me and where and how much damage they do.

    People want change ttk will be ignored, they are too few.
  • DyD6Marina
    548 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Probably time to stop feeding the troll.

    Maybe is time to accept some fact and accept Dice changed target and don't point anymore to appeal casuals like in past.
  • trip1ex
    4694 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    DyD6Marina wrote: »
    Forget that dude, he's still yet to elaborate on what 'random' meant because he's just your typical BF V bushmonster waiting to punish others for trying to play the game. 'ha ha thats what u get for trying to rush n run and gun'

    Come on how i can take you seriously if you say you not know what is random.

    You can't be serious...

    I'm sure you are trolling but i will answer to you.

    Random in this case is when the bullet or weapon go to a casual direction even with the intervention of the players every time.

    An example, in bf1942(yes the first battlefield)-bf1, you can't really totally control the recoil, because the movement of weapon change everytime you shot.

    You can't totally control the spread because the pattern the bullet go are always different.

    To the spread you must add random deviation a casual offset to the bullet.

    You can control the size of "cone" where the bullet goes, with tapping fire or burst control, but there is always something based on random/luck.

    This make the gunplay more random, casual, the player never totally control the weapons and part of gunplay is always luck based.


    In Battlefield V this is changed.

    The recoil have a specific pattern for every weapons, you can mastered it and if you do good, totally nullify the recoil.

    The spread is added to recoil , bullet goes where the recoil move the weapon, then you can control totally even the spread.

    The random deviation is removed.


    In Battlefield V the gunplay is totally in the hand of the players, is the skill of the player and only the skill of the player to determinate where the bullet goes.

    Yep random deviation was removed and the good players are still the good players and BF still isn't a competitive e-shooter.

    Nothing really changed except the game became more campy.




  • TheyHaveScissors
    641 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 13
    DyD6Marina wrote: »
    Probably time to stop feeding the troll.

    Maybe is time to accept some fact and accept Dice changed target and don't point anymore to appeal casuals like in past.

    If anything, casuals got their wishes in BF5 looking at the dumbed down gunmechanics with zero sway, and no noticeble recoil on many guns, removed suppression and instant heal options after being damaged.

    The fast TTK with the current laser-accurate auto and semi-auto rifles just adds frustration to alot of people. People that have moved on by now since DICE neglects them while feeding the people that want fast CoD gameplay in a vain attempt to ''meet the competition''.

    Meanwhile, games with a higher TTK (and longer TTD) like APEX and PUBG are more succesful atm at retaining players.
  • DyD6Marina
    548 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 13
    Random in this case is when the bullet or weapon go to a casual direction even with the intervention of the players every time.

    An example, in bf1942(yes the first battlefield)-bf1, you can't really totally control the recoil, because the movement of weapon change everytime you shot.

    You can't totally control the spread because the pattern the bullet go are always different.

    To the spread you must add random deviation a casual offset to the bullet.

    You can control the size of "cone" where the bullet goes, with tapping fire or burst control, but there is always something based on random/luck.

    This make the gunplay more random, casual, the player never totally control the weapons and part of gunplay is always luck based.

    Well that was a good IQ test. Spread is the same in all games, you start with a cone of fire that increases when firing. In games since BC2 you recover from spread and recoil while shooting as well.

    The only difference was in BF1 you would actually notice some shot bloom at extremely long distances. Because of spread.

    BF V has spread, but even a widened cone of fire in this game is more accurate than previous games, which is why you can challenge snipers with a scoped assault rifle and win more often than not.

    I get it, having a mechanic designed to make for actual gunplay and class balance is wrong but its not random.

    Also anyone agrees that this current system requires less skill because it literally does by all empirical qualifiers. It makes the gameplay casual, to borrow your favorite term. Far more casual than needing to deal with effective distance and playing to the strengths of each guntype instead of just grabbing one of the god guns and spraying people down at 150m and dumping SMG users up closr too.

    Spread is alot more different in Battlefield V, is united to recoil, you counter the spread moving your mouse/stick, not with burst control.

    Is more accurated because isn't random, player have control on it, is skill based.

    Ok seems you can't accept, you prefer bullet go casually luck based, instead something the player can control and skill based.

    Casuals never understand how this system work specially if they playing on consoles, they refused a more skilled need game like CS:GO, normal they have problem with a more skill need game like Battlefield V.
  • MarxistDictator
    4875 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    No its not. The mechanics are literally the same as always. Spread increase still exists. What we have is just too little spread for that to actually matter. There is no division in effective range anymore, there's just a huge medium range pratfall you take using an SMG or a huge short range drawback using a sniper, and as if being less versatile wasn't bad enough you're also less effective at your supposed niche (seriously semi autos crush snipers and LMGs/ARs dance around SMGs up close). What that means is the gunplay is a cheap farcical excuse, that requires less skill.

    The recoil patterns are also a joke, seeing as they did not allow for any mechanics to prevent rapid tapping from being the dominant strategy and extending the effective range of automatics far further than they could ever be balanced to be. If anything the recoil patterns make the brainless tap firing even *more* effective, since you will always be shooting with the smallest recoil impulses if you do.

    I get it, not being able to mag dump is casual to you but you really are wrong.
  • NLBartmaN
    3192 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    DyD6Marina wrote: »

    Maybe is time to accept some fact and accept Dice changed target

    And it brought them great success :D

    Now I will stop feeding ...
  • DyD6Marina
    548 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    No its not. The mechanics are literally the same as always. Spread increase still exists. What we have is just too little spread for that to actually matter. There is no division in effective range anymore, there's just a huge medium range pratfall you take using an SMG or a huge short range drawback using a sniper, and as if being less versatile wasn't bad enough you're also less effective at your supposed niche (seriously semi autos crush snipers and LMGs/ARs dance around SMGs up close). What that means is the gunplay is a cheap farcical excuse, that requires less skill.

    The recoil patterns are also a joke, seeing as they did not allow for any mechanics to prevent rapid tapping from being the dominant strategy and extending the effective range of automatics far further than they could ever be balanced to be. If anything the recoil patterns make the brainless tap firing even *more* effective, since you will always be shooting with the smallest recoil impulses if you do.

    I get it, not being able to mag dump is casual to you but you really are wrong.

    Ok now you confirmed you are a troll ok bye.
  • DyD6Marina
    548 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 13
    VVaxDaddy wrote: »
    DyD6Marina wrote: »
    Forget that dude, he's still yet to elaborate on what 'random' meant because he's just your typical BF V bushmonster waiting to punish others for trying to play the game. 'ha ha thats what u get for trying to rush n run and gun'

    Come on how i can take you seriously if you say you not know what is random.

    You can't be serious...

    I'm sure you are trolling but i will answer to you.

    Random in this case is when the bullet or weapon go to a casual direction even with the intervention of the players every time.

    An example, in bf1942(yes the first battlefield)-bf1, you can't really totally control the recoil, because the movement of weapon change everytime you shot.

    You can't totally control the spread because the pattern the bullet go are always different.

    To the spread you must add random deviation a casual offset to the bullet.

    You can control the size of "cone" where the bullet goes, with tapping fire or burst control, but there is always something based on random/luck.

    This make the gunplay more random, casual, the player never totally control the weapons and part of gunplay is always luck based.


    In Battlefield V this is changed.

    The recoil have a specific pattern for every weapons, you can mastered it and if you do good, totally nullify the recoil.

    The spread is added to recoil , bullet goes where the recoil move the weapon, then you can control totally even the spread.

    The random deviation is removed.


    In Battlefield V the gunplay is totally in the hand of the players, is the skill of the player and only the skill of the player to determinate where the bullet goes.

    Like your response to most of these comments you illustrate that your understanding is only surface level and very lacking in any sort of depth. Your opinion is that of a casual, who doesn't take time to actually understand the game mechanics because they aren't competitive or passionate about the game.

    Pretty sure spread isn't removed, it's just reduced to laughable levels. Removing spread does not increase skill, in fact it makes it easier to land hits when you don't have to consider engagement ranges, the appropriate rate of fire for an engagement range, or making sure you are dead center mass (low spread you can just clip someone over and over since you are never at risk of spread causing you to miss their hurtbox because you were aiming at their shoulder instead of chest). It also reduces the reward for good movement skills and cover use in engagements since at range you don't have to be as precise to score hits.

    Also please stop calling it random. If you can actively do things to improve spread it's not random that's just dishonest. Just because you can't 100% know how your gun will be affected by spread does not mean you can't predict and counteract. Same with no set recoil patterns, if I can program a macro to 100% handle recoil it's not an extreme skill it's just muscle memory which is fairly surface level.

    You also don't consider that BF is primarily a game of 32v32 random pub matches that center around capturing objectives. Some consideration has to be taken into designing gunplay that allows for and facilitates the intended gameplay and I believe strongly the gunplay in BFV does not do this well. With quick ttk high accuracy guns the incentive to close ranges to play on objectives is terrible which is why everyone complains that no one plays the objective in this game

    No you seems to not know how work.

    Dice explained it, Spread in Battlefield V is united to recoil.

    In older Battlefield is random, saying the contrary is dishonest or not know how the game work.

    The bullet go in different position every time you shot, even if you do nothing, for this is random.

    Instead in Battlefield V they have a pattern every time, you can totally control it.

    If you think control the weapons isn't a skill and only muscle memory you are pretty confused.

    Really this is the way the most competitve fps multiplayer game work CS:GO, Battlefield V copied it, but semplified for consoles.


    Come on be serious, with high TTK people tend only to rush and play like a cod players, they don't care of objective.

    In Battlefield V at least bad players have fear to come out from flags and incidentally defend.

    Battlefield V isn't a game for casual anymore, low TTK punish rushers, good players continue to play for objectives without problem.
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