Time for a new look at TTK?

Comments

  • AssassinoX1
    165 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    He's not trolling, he just disagrees with some of you as do others but for the rest of us it's not worth even adding to the conversation if the atmosphere is already hostile for feeling the opposite.
  • THERAMPAGE_ci0h
    25 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    HS damage multiplier is way too high ( Way too OP with automatic weapons ), they should remake it like it was in BF3/4/1, Headshot hitbox is also bigger than in BF1 so they should also reduce the HS hitbox like it was in BF1. ;)

    Automatic weapons 2 BTK in the head isn't fun for a core mode ! :o

    They should never have removed 3D spotting in core mode ! The curent one could be perfect in extreme mode but for the love of god, please ... reimplement 3d spot in core mode ( it discourage camping, help people with visual disability to see the enemy ); Plane vs infantery gameplay feel inconsistent and could be improved with the return of 3D spot !

    Diying with 2 or 3 bullet isn't fun because you can't react -> the community will always choose high power weapons among others ...
    Remember there is also aim assist on console and 30hz servers + forced lag compensation even whith optic fiber ... super fun when you can't react and end diying at cover everytime ! :s
    We need ping limit on server (not on all because some person can have connection problem ) and we need the possibility to turn lag compensation off like in previous game. ;)

    DMR ( Sniper and assault ) are OP too, they need to add more horizontal recoil, decrease dammage at long range, less velocity & more bullet drop to prevent spam fire at long range ( DMR can outclass sniper at long range right know ) B) -> Sebslader 1916 in bf1 should be the model for DMR in this game ( High power but high recoil and slow firing rate ) ;)

    Attrition ( for infantry and vehicule ) is pure mess and not fun anymore, ok it was realistic and something fresh at the beggining of the game but it's not fun anymore, Tank camp in the spawn near ressuply station because they can't repare full health / are always looking for ammo; and planes do one bombing run and are forced return to ressuply at the rim of map ( in vehicule you past your time at looking for ammo and health ... what's a fun gameplay in vehicule oriented franchise ... ) . :#

    For the infantery attrition is for forcing teamplay, but nobody is giving health and ammo ( it's super rare on console ) so you always start your gunfight mid life and loose or end diying randomely in one bullet by a prone enemy at 10m ( that you haven't seen because of visibility issue / 3D spotting gone ) the guy is maybe playing with an OP DMR and you can't react because you aren't full health and the superfast TTK -> super fun :D

    Audio mix need rework too , you can't ear enemy sprinting 5m around you -> BF1 was perfect for this , and weapons sound seem inconsistant compared to BF1 ... WTF happened ?


  • disposalist
    8245 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    maggoo8 wrote: »
    DyD6Marina wrote: »
    maggoo8 wrote: »
    I just don't understand the arguments in support of a lower TTK making the game more skilled. It appears people believe it takes more skill to shoot an enemy less. It's definitely hilarious that's for sure. The character movement is slow? I would also argue that the character movement was slower in BF1 & BF4. Some players don't want rushers to be able to run around the map and survive. Are these so called rushers not actually playing the objective and therefore doing what the game mode requires? Attacking objectives and capturing them for their team? No we certainly don't want that in BFV.

    If you're not skilful enough to put one or two more bullets into your target when they are on the move, then maybe you don't deserve the kill but BFV rewards you with the kill anyway. Do we want to define skill by the way players are forced to move around wide open maps checking for enemies that you can't see proned with laser beams that have no recoil or should it be about weapon management? Unfortunately the skill requirement for using guns in this game is all but gone compared to other BF titles I have played. The gunplay in this game is about as shallow as I have ever experienced in any game I have played.

    I think it's easier to get kills in BFV than it ever was in BF1 & BF4 but having said that it is a lot less satisfying and fun.

    A comment like this show all the wrong ideas are in some players.

    You are really confused, first on movement, in bf4 rushing was alot more quick and side step different is irrilevant.



    No rushers are only play this game like cod, a Battlefield you must move slow to objective, think, check the maps, kill enemies from distance and than advance to objective, if you want a cod there is cod.

    Again two bullet more is only a way to save the rushers, not need more skill, reflex and quick accuracy is a skill, not correcting aim after errors and give rushers a chance to run away.

    The gunplay need skill now, more quick accuracy, more reflex, i can understand can be difficult to control it, but Battlefield can't be a cod-like game anymore and lying about it not change the situation.


    It's incredible how casuals game like cod, casuals battlefield and fortnite ruined this community.

    It is actually surprising to me that the movement speed is the same was BF4, it has been a while since I have played BF4 but BFV feels very fast paced to me. I wonder what the speed was for BF1.

    So anyone that doesn't agree with you is wrong? It's very obvious that you prefer the game how it is. Long range engagements with low skill guns that casual gamers could dominate with, and the last thing you want is players being able to get up in your face. You want to be able to shoot them at a safe range. Then on the other hand you talk about how skilful this is.

    It sounds to me like you are actually describing a hardcore mode

    It's the animations man. It's not the movement speed. BF's 4 and prior, had much better animations, and made it seem you were really running, where as starting with BF1 and now, the movement system became very slow and clunky, at leasst how it's visualized.

    It seems what DICE did, is went the DICE LA route , whereas if you played the MOH Campaigns (Danger Close now DICE LA) MOH 10 and Warfighter (even Airborne), the movement was very even frustratingly very slow and clunky feeling, even though the ""speed" may be the same. In fact, playing BF1 for the first time, the speed and animations, felt identical to MOH.
    BF1 movement is excellent. Feels very solid and real. BF5? Nope.
  • AssassinoX1
    165 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    He's not trolling, he just disagrees with some of you as do others but for the rest of us it's not worth even adding to the conversation if the atmosphere is already hostile for feeling the opposite.

    Well, it's interesting in that here, you feel opinions are hostile to those who do not want ttk nerfed, where as when you cross the street over at Reddit , if you want to nerf TTK, you're downvoted 50 times, ridiculed, and pattered with toxic diatribe.

    So, the big question would be, why is this the case?

    I submit, this site you need a gamertag to post, where as over there, it's all botted votes on possibly numerous tags to one person, and nothing more than a hot mess, that cannot clearly be determined who wants what.

    And so i would think DICE is doing themselves a huge disservice listening to their incoherent views. I would also submit given that fact, most would like to see changes to TTK.

    I avoid reddit and don't use it unless it's for a quick answer for something in a game. It always rubbed me the wrong way with it's layout and unchecked privileges, I didn't realize it was so easy to create multiple names like that so it makes me not like it even more. Thanks for that info.

    I absolutely agree these companies are doing themselves a disservice following what reddit has to say and using that as official means for communication. The more I read developers using reddit, the more it makes me bewildered. I was always an "official forum" poster for games, its starting to feel like they are they continually not utilizing them as much anymore. It should always be the primary source and location for everything.
  • Pelliy
    1992 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    He's not trolling, he just disagrees with some of you as do others but for the rest of us it's not worth even adding to the conversation if the atmosphere is already hostile for feeling the opposite.

    He's being condescending. It's one thing to disagree. It's about to say dice is catering to easy mode casuals.

    Asserting his BS that higher ttk is casual without establishing any fact then coming off condescending about it.
  • AssassinoX1
    165 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    VVaxDaddy wrote: »
    He's not trolling, he just disagrees with some of you as do others but for the rest of us it's not worth even adding to the conversation if the atmosphere is already hostile for feeling the opposite.

    The only hostility I've seen has been towards him because instead of contributing to the conversation he drops some statement that can't be substantiated and throws out that anyone who disagrees is either casual, confused, or ignorant. That's not true and drives the conversation nowhere.

    Explain why you think it should be that way, instead of belittling those that disagree with you and you might be surprised to find that the others can be reasonable. If you can coherently explain how you think the game should play and why a mechanic or change drives towards that type of gameplay an actual conversation can be had.

    Yeah, although there was someone else just calling everyone noobs and accusing any pro TTK people as playing cheap or whatever it was however I can't find those posts anymore. Not sure if they were deleted or edited? *shrugs* I agree though which was my issue with whoever that person(s) was.
  • GrizzGolf
    735 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Why didn't they use the same TTK in BF1 with BFV?
  • BFB-LeCharybdis
    403 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    I think FireStorm might end up resolving the TTK situation in the main games of BFV.

    Amongst the data mined files (https://www.reddit.com/r/BattlefieldV/comments/ay42xn/new_firestorm_info_details_what_we_can_learn_from/ ) they found four sets of Armour. Obviously TTK needs to be longer in BR, especially with the visibility and easy mode guns of V.

    Dice tried to raise TTK before but Westie and Co had a fit and they backed down. Now they have the chance to reintroduce the higher TTK through Armour in a separate mode, if people like it they can introduce it into the main games without the reactionary crowd going mental as they'll already be used to it from playing FireStorm.

    I think it makes sense, they can't change TTK because of hysterics, but at the same time the sales and player retention haven't changed as they've been unable to do anything to change it. This way they can ease a higher TTK in there as people will actually have given it a good try before lighting up Reddit and YouTube.

    Weird but BR may end up saving BFV.
  • DingoKillr
    3233 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 14
    GrizzGolf wrote: »
    Why didn't they use the same TTK in BF1 with BFV?
    There is theoretical and practical TTK. What DICE has done is made practical almost the same as theoretical reducing spread and recoil.
    A 4BTK at 600 rpm on a 30HZ server update is the same TTK no matter what BF that is the theoretical TTK. However if your spread is 1 or 4 that is massive impact on how fast you can accurately put bullets on target that difference could be 5 bullets fired compared to 10 bullets fired just to get a 4 BTK.

    The reason that was done was due to feedback whinging about random deviation caused by spread not having any skill.
  • Pelliy
    1992 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    GrizzGolf wrote: »
    Why didn't they use the same TTK in BF1 with BFV?

    Good question

    People complained about bf1 ttk. They attributed it to what they perceived as bad gunplay which I'd argue was more complex than changing damage and recoil values

    Dice wanted to change it closer to bf1 ttk butThe community wanted bfv ttk but most of the community that wanted it... Left.

    So this was one time where dice was right and the community was wrong. The community reacted based on emotion. Dice reacted based on empirical data that backed what they were saying that there fast ttk was Frustrating players and players not being able to know where they got shot from was another point of frustration
  • Pelliy
    1992 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    I think FireStorm might end up resolving the TTK situation in the main games of BFV.

    Amongst the data mined files (https://www.reddit.com/r/BattlefieldV/comments/ay42xn/new_firestorm_info_details_what_we_can_learn_from/ ) they found four sets of Armour. Obviously TTK needs to be longer in BR, especially with the visibility and easy mode guns of V.

    Dice tried to raise TTK before but Westie and Co had a fit and they backed down. Now they have the chance to reintroduce the higher TTK through Armour in a separate mode, if people like it they can introduce it into the main games without the reactionary crowd going mental as they'll already be used to it from playing FireStorm.

    I think it makes sense, they can't change TTK because of hysterics, but at the same time the sales and player retention haven't changed as they've been unable to do anything to change it. This way they can ease a higher TTK in there as people will actually have given it a good try before lighting up Reddit and YouTube.

    Weird but BR may end up saving BFV.

    Don't blame westie. He was a part of it. The whole community was very vocal about it. Reddit, YouTube, Twitter. People didn't want it changed.

    The community as a while was just wrong about the ttk in my opinion.
  • DingoKillr
    3233 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Pelliy wrote: »
    I think FireStorm might end up resolving the TTK situation in the main games of BFV.

    Amongst the data mined files (https://www.reddit.com/r/BattlefieldV/comments/ay42xn/new_firestorm_info_details_what_we_can_learn_from/ ) they found four sets of Armour. Obviously TTK needs to be longer in BR, especially with the visibility and easy mode guns of V.

    Dice tried to raise TTK before but Westie and Co had a fit and they backed down. Now they have the chance to reintroduce the higher TTK through Armour in a separate mode, if people like it they can introduce it into the main games without the reactionary crowd going mental as they'll already be used to it from playing FireStorm.

    I think it makes sense, they can't change TTK because of hysterics, but at the same time the sales and player retention haven't changed as they've been unable to do anything to change it. This way they can ease a higher TTK in there as people will actually have given it a good try before lighting up Reddit and YouTube.

    Weird but BR may end up saving BFV.

    Don't blame westie. He was a part of it. The whole community was very vocal about it. Reddit, YouTube, Twitter. People didn't want it changed.

    The community as a while was just wrong about the ttk in my opinion.

    No, I will not accept blame for the change back. I supported the change and opposed the change back.
  • BFB-LeCharybdis
    403 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Pelliy wrote: »
    I think FireStorm might end up resolving the TTK situation in the main games of BFV.

    Amongst the data mined files (https://www.reddit.com/r/BattlefieldV/comments/ay42xn/new_firestorm_info_details_what_we_can_learn_from/ ) they found four sets of Armour. Obviously TTK needs to be longer in BR, especially with the visibility and easy mode guns of V.

    Dice tried to raise TTK before but Westie and Co had a fit and they backed down. Now they have the chance to reintroduce the higher TTK through Armour in a separate mode, if people like it they can introduce it into the main games without the reactionary crowd going mental as they'll already be used to it from playing FireStorm.

    I think it makes sense, they can't change TTK because of hysterics, but at the same time the sales and player retention haven't changed as they've been unable to do anything to change it. This way they can ease a higher TTK in there as people will actually have given it a good try before lighting up Reddit and YouTube.

    Weird but BR may end up saving BFV.

    Don't blame westie. He was a part of it. The whole community was very vocal about it. Reddit, YouTube, Twitter. People didn't want it changed.

    The community as a while was just wrong about the ttk in my opinion.

    I did write 'and Co'
  • sabootheshaman
    154 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Pelliy wrote: »
    He's not trolling, he just disagrees with some of you as do others but for the rest of us it's not worth even adding to the conversation if the atmosphere is already hostile for feeling the opposite.

    He's being condescending. It's one thing to disagree. It's about to say dice is catering to easy mode casuals.

    Asserting his BS that higher ttk is casual without establishing any fact then coming off condescending about it.

    Honestly the whole thing turned toxic in here. Someones been posting noobs blah blah to every comment that was pro the existing TTK. It goes both ways and everyone has just been shouting each other down. In addition people are constantly stating opinions like they are facts.

    In my opinion it's a balance issue and additionally it's potentially different on the PC vs Consoles. I'd rather see balance addressed overall.
  • maggoo8
    15 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    maggoo8 wrote: »
    DyD6Marina wrote: »
    maggoo8 wrote: »
    I just don't understand the arguments in support of a lower TTK making the game more skilled. It appears people believe it takes more skill to shoot an enemy less. It's definitely hilarious that's for sure. The character movement is slow? I would also argue that the character movement was slower in BF1 & BF4. Some players don't want rushers to be able to run around the map and survive. Are these so called rushers not actually playing the objective and therefore doing what the game mode requires? Attacking objectives and capturing them for their team? No we certainly don't want that in BFV.

    If you're not skilful enough to put one or two more bullets into your target when they are on the move, then maybe you don't deserve the kill but BFV rewards you with the kill anyway. Do we want to define skill by the way players are forced to move around wide open maps checking for enemies that you can't see proned with laser beams that have no recoil or should it be about weapon management? Unfortunately the skill requirement for using guns in this game is all but gone compared to other BF titles I have played. The gunplay in this game is about as shallow as I have ever experienced in any game I have played.

    I think it's easier to get kills in BFV than it ever was in BF1 & BF4 but having said that it is a lot less satisfying and fun.

    A comment like this show all the wrong ideas are in some players.

    You are really confused, first on movement, in bf4 rushing was alot more quick and side step different is irrilevant.



    No rushers are only play this game like cod, a Battlefield you must move slow to objective, think, check the maps, kill enemies from distance and than advance to objective, if you want a cod there is cod.

    Again two bullet more is only a way to save the rushers, not need more skill, reflex and quick accuracy is a skill, not correcting aim after errors and give rushers a chance to run away.

    The gunplay need skill now, more quick accuracy, more reflex, i can understand can be difficult to control it, but Battlefield can't be a cod-like game anymore and lying about it not change the situation.


    It's incredible how casuals game like cod, casuals battlefield and fortnite ruined this community.

    It is actually surprising to me that the movement speed is the same was BF4, it has been a while since I have played BF4 but BFV feels very fast paced to me. I wonder what the speed was for BF1.

    So anyone that doesn't agree with you is wrong? It's very obvious that you prefer the game how it is. Long range engagements with low skill guns that casual gamers could dominate with, and the last thing you want is players being able to get up in your face. You want to be able to shoot them at a safe range. Then on the other hand you talk about how skilful this is.

    It sounds to me like you are actually describing a hardcore mode

    It's the animations man. It's not the movement speed. BF's 4 and prior, had much better animations, and made it seem you were really running, where as starting with BF1 and now, the movement system became very slow and clunky, at leasst how it's visualized.

    It seems what DICE did, is went the DICE LA route , whereas if you played the MOH Campaigns (Danger Close now DICE LA) MOH 10 and Warfighter (even Airborne), the movement was very even frustratingly very slow and clunky feeling, even though the ""speed" may be the same. In fact, playing BF1 for the first time, the speed and animations, felt identical to MOH.

    I loved that realistic movement feeling, you're right, it did actually feel like you were running. It really impressed me when I first started playing and the guns would sway left and right as you were running. I know it's only a small thing but it was important to me.
  • maggoo8
    15 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Pelliy wrote: »
    He's not trolling, he just disagrees with some of you as do others but for the rest of us it's not worth even adding to the conversation if the atmosphere is already hostile for feeling the opposite.

    He's being condescending. It's one thing to disagree. It's about to say dice is catering to easy mode casuals.

    Asserting his BS that higher ttk is casual without establishing any fact then coming off condescending about it.

    Honestly the whole thing turned toxic in here. Someones been posting noobs blah blah to every comment that was pro the existing TTK. It goes both ways and everyone has just been shouting each other down. In addition people are constantly stating opinions like they are facts.

    In my opinion it's a balance issue and additionally it's potentially different on the PC vs Consoles. I'd rather see balance addressed overall.

    I agree and am just curious if any of the previous titles required or had different balancing between console & PC? I'm not sure but would imagine there would be a fair amount of work involved for DICE and considering the feedback they received when they changed the TTK, might feel it's not worth the trouble if they receive similar feedback and are forced to change it back again.
  • MsieurLeodagan
    309 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Exactly, the balancing PC and console is different. That's why we had dedicated private servers before bf1 on pc. Procon and plugins allowed to compensate this difference.
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