Time for a new look at TTK?

Comments

  • sabootheshaman
    814 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    maggoo8 wrote: »
    If is wasn’t for the lack of options for similar shooters I would no longer be playing BFV. I don’t like COD or BR games. Previously I have loved playing Battlefield games.

    We obviously have three groups here forced to play the game in a gamestyle they don’t prefer. We need a hardcore, current TTK and longer TTK playlist.

    It’s probably impossible to know what the preference numbers are for each mode and I doubt DICE actually know themselves. With the rate players are or have quit the game it’s a shame these options weren’t available at launch. I wonder how many players would still be playing had they had the choice to play the game the way they wanted too.

    The bugs and netcode are frustrating of course, maps are below average, weapons are essy to use but I think the biggest factor is the gameplay for most us.
    I think this whole “the existing TTK is why player numbers are dropping” is a false narrative used to further people’s argument for a higher TTK.

    Their are a lot of factors that can lead to the drop. It diminishes the argument to quote opinions line they are facts.

    I’ve played BF since 42 and I like the TTK. I do however think balance and content are major issues currently.
    There are indeed multiple factors. Of course TTK is not the only reason for low numbers. There is a lot wrong with BF5. But the TTK is a big factor, because even when they fix other problems, because it's an intentional design choice, not a bug or omission or lack of content, it will never get better in the eyes of the players that dislike it.

    I have no hope that BF5 will be better than BF1 or BF4, for me, because the underlying choice to make it some kind of competitive-lite, hardcore-lite, BR-prepared shooter means even if it were perfectly executed, it will still be something I don't much like, by design.

    Absolutely valid opinions. I’d love to see the stats in more detail so we could all get a better understanding. A nice infographic of time to kill with different guns. Comparison stats to BF1 as well as what guns are dominating.

    I do think if dice tweaked a few guns we’d all be happier and TTK would not dominate conversations like it does now. That being said I wouldn’t be surprised to see some nerf in the next patch.
  • Pelliy
    2079 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    SirBobdk wrote: »
    @sabootheshaman wrote
    I’ve played BF since 42 and I like the TTK. I do however think balance and content are major issues currently.
    Agree. When I talk to my friends who have left the game they are divided around the TTK, but they all agree about the lack of content, map design, balance problems, bugs but most of all the game play. But the combination of TTK, lack of visibility and laser guns with 3x zoom makes most people sit and wait for others to move. Imo the game is designed for TDM and not any type of pto mode.
    Right. When they raised the TTK to 'test' community reaction they *knew* it would be unpopular, because simply raising the TTK across the board made it even more unbalanced. That test didn't have a chance and that's the way they wanted it, in my not-so-humble opinion, so that they could say "look, the community doesn't like higher TTK".

    It's a combination of low TTK, dodgy netcode, bad cross-class balance, visibility, attrition, etc. that make the game so frustrating and un-fun.

    I think a higher TTK makes for a better game, but not in isolation, of course - lots of changes would be needed to balance a higher TTK (lots of change they didn't do when 'testing' it).

    Yeah if they had a CTE, ttk would have been perfect.

    Instead they just changed some random values around.
  • SirBobdk
    3868 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    @disposalist wrote
    I think a higher TTK makes for a better game, but not in isolation, of course - lots of changes would be needed to balance a higher TTK
    We have had fast TTK before in BF games, but it felt nothing like this. It was still the player with the best reaction/aim who came out on top.
    But there are so many other factors that contribute to the bad experience and it's the combinations which destroys the game.
    For eksampel the 1 x sights. When ever I use them I actually get a worse view and loose track of the enemy unlike the kobra sight from BF3/4.
    In BFV you die in many situation before you even see the enemy and imo It is mostly due to the 3x zoom and the possibility of landing laser shots precisely over long distance. in previous BF games game you more or less always saw the enemy and it was the better player who won the gunfight and we didn't all run aound with semi sniper laser guns.
  • TheyHaveScissors
    544 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    SirBobdk wrote: »
    @sabootheshaman wrote
    I’ve played BF since 42 and I like the TTK. I do however think balance and content are major issues currently.
    Agree. When I talk to my friends who have left the game they are divided around the TTK, but they all agree about the lack of content, map design, balance problems, bugs but most of all the game play. But the combination of TTK, lack of visibility and laser guns with 3x zoom makes most people sit and wait for others to move. Imo the game is designed for TDM and not any type of pto mode.


    It's a combination of low TTK, dodgy netcode, bad cross-class balance, visibility, attrition, etc. that make the game so frustrating and un-fun.

    .
    Speaking of which, I think these factors contributed to why Rush flopped too. The lesser player modes are equally as un-fun, its really down to the gunmechanics and class balance with this horrendous low TTK.
  • Pelliy
    2079 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 17
    SirBobdk wrote: »
    @sabootheshaman wrote
    I’ve played BF since 42 and I like the TTK. I do however think balance and content are major issues currently.
    Agree. When I talk to my friends who have left the game they are divided around the TTK, but they all agree about the lack of content, map design, balance problems, bugs but most of all the game play. But the combination of TTK, lack of visibility and laser guns with 3x zoom makes most people sit and wait for others to move. Imo the game is designed for TDM and not any type of pto mode.


    It's a combination of low TTK, dodgy netcode, bad cross-class balance, visibility, attrition, etc. that make the game so frustrating and un-fun.

    .
    Speaking of which, I think these factors contributed to why Rush flopped too. The lesser player modes are equally as un-fun, its really down to the gunmechanics and class balance with this horrendous low TTK.

    No, rush sucks because rush's identity went away from what made it great.

    It went from being popular in bad company all the way up to bf4. Bf1 is when they added some changes and then it got unpopular.

    Ttk is irrelevant to the discussion about rush, considering the other games had faster ttk than bf1 yet rush was still unpopular in bf1


    I prefer a slower ttk honestly but it's a nonsequitur when bringing up why rush sucks
  • SirBobdk
    3868 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    @Pelliy wrote
    No, rush sucks because rush's identity went away from what made it great.
    Agree. TTK was low in BC2 but it was perfect because of
    • Amazing maps
    • Good sound
    • Balanced weapons
    • Reasonable mechanics / movement
    • Good visibility
    • No semi sniper weapons for all
    BFV have NONE of this imo.
    BFV is 64 players pushed together in a box that is poorly designed.
    But BC2 kind of maps could also have been really good for GO/BT.
    DICE had found the recipe for rush, GO and BT, but on the road to BFV they have forgotten it.
  • bran1986
    5493 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    I actually like rush in BFV, especially Twisted Steel.
  • DingoKillr
    3435 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    SirBobdk wrote: »
    @Pelliy wrote
    No, rush sucks because rush's identity went away from what made it great.
    Agree. TTK was low in BC2 but it was perfect because of
    • Amazing maps
    • Good sound
    • Balanced weapons
    • Reasonable mechanics / movement
    • Good visibility
    • No semi sniper weapons for all
    BFV have NONE of this imo.
    BFV is 64 players pushed together in a box that is poorly designed.
    But BC2 kind of maps could also have been really good for GO/BT.
    DICE had found the recipe for rush, GO and BT, but on the road to BFV they have forgotten it.

    You overlook 1 other factor player count. BC2 had 24 players.
  • Pelliy
    2079 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    SirBobdk wrote: »
    @Pelliy wrote
    No, rush sucks because rush's identity went away from what made it great.
    Agree. TTK was low in BC2 but it was perfect because of
    • Amazing maps
    • Good sound
    • Balanced weapons
    • Reasonable mechanics / movement
    • Good visibility
    • No semi sniper weapons for all
    BFV have NONE of this imo.
    BFV is 64 players pushed together in a box that is poorly designed.
    But BC2 kind of maps could also have been really good for GO/BT.
    DICE had found the recipe for rush, GO and BT, but on the road to BFV they have forgotten it.

    You overlook 1 other factor player count. BC2 had 24 players.

    so did battlefield 1 and it didn't do good.

    I don't think player count is an issue. BF4 had 64 player rush on PC and it was popular.



    so playercount isn't the issue. Its the design and what everything @SirBobdk mentioned.
  • CHAMMOND1992
    999 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Rush died in BF1 because Operations was the superior mode. I played I think a grand total of 2 rush games in BF1.
  • TheyHaveScissors
    544 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    It is kindof ironic Firestorm has 150HP with additional optional personal armor value. Indicating something might be wrong with the current TTK with the low to no recoil weapons.

    DICE could have also adjusted the TTK/TTD for the base game....
  • GrizzGolf
    890 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    It is kindof ironic Firestorm has 150HP with additional optional personal armor value. Indicating something might be wrong with the current TTK with the low to no recoil weapons.

    DICE could have also adjusted the TTK/TTD for the base game....

    I never thought of that till now!
  • NuttysKunKs
    239 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Already takes 4 HS with an SMG to kill.

    TTK is not the issue. TTD is.
  • BlindChance
    482 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    0SiGHT0 wrote: »
    Time to kill has never been a problem in this game. The real complaints are the awful netcode designed by people who don't know what they're doing, and a weapon balance system that has created guns with practically zero recoil and extremely high damage at range.

    I don't think you understand the rate at which you get hit with bullets and how network latecy affects your experience on a map with 64 players not scripted bots.
  • Khronikos
    2145 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    SirBobdk wrote: »
    @sabootheshaman wrote
    I’ve played BF since 42 and I like the TTK. I do however think balance and content are major issues currently.
    Agree. When I talk to my friends who have left the game they are divided around the TTK, but they all agree about the lack of content, map design, balance problems, bugs but most of all the game play. But the combination of TTK, lack of visibility and laser guns with 3x zoom makes most people sit and wait for others to move. Imo the game is designed for TDM and not any type of pto mode.


    It's a combination of low TTK, dodgy netcode, bad cross-class balance, visibility, attrition, etc. that make the game so frustrating and un-fun.

    .
    Speaking of which, I think these factors contributed to why Rush flopped too. The lesser player modes are equally as un-fun, its really down to the gunmechanics and class balance with this horrendous low TTK.

    Honestly, I really would like to see the data supporting this laser TTK crap considering no game in the franchise plays like this. I would also question exactly why reddit and the devs honestly thought this is what everyone wanted. It's almost like ex-COD guys came onto the team and basically made this game COD of the past while COD went higher TTK. I just don't understand why this game is so low TTK with too many bad map designs.

    BR looks interesting, but I just don't know if I have the time or space to play this game anymore. It has no future besides BR, which Apex takes up for me and even that game I am completely exhausted and rarely play unless two people are on to squad up. It's just a waste of time alone, much like this game will probably be in the squad mode.
  • crackedbottom
    21 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    just a question why not open the CTE again and carry over what's basically bf4s movement gunplay ect and see what the community thinks that includes bloom bullet deviation minus the suppression and Dorito spam would that be good thing to try
  • DingoKillr
    3435 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 21
    Khronikos wrote: »
    SirBobdk wrote: »
    @sabootheshaman wrote
    I’ve played BF since 42 and I like the TTK. I do however think balance and content are major issues currently.
    Agree. When I talk to my friends who have left the game they are divided around the TTK, but they all agree about the lack of content, map design, balance problems, bugs but most of all the game play. But the combination of TTK, lack of visibility and laser guns with 3x zoom makes most people sit and wait for others to move. Imo the game is designed for TDM and not any type of pto mode.


    It's a combination of low TTK, dodgy netcode, bad cross-class balance, visibility, attrition, etc. that make the game so frustrating and un-fun.

    .
    Speaking of which, I think these factors contributed to why Rush flopped too. The lesser player modes are equally as un-fun, its really down to the gunmechanics and class balance with this horrendous low TTK.

    Honestly, I really would like to see the data supporting this laser TTK crap considering no game in the franchise plays like this. I would also question exactly why reddit and the devs honestly thought this is what everyone wanted. It's almost like ex-COD guys came onto the team and basically made this game COD of the past while COD went higher TTK. I just don't understand why this game is so low TTK with too many bad map designs.

    BR looks interesting, but I just don't know if I have the time or space to play this game anymore. It has no future besides BR, which Apex takes up for me and even that game I am completely exhausted and rarely play unless two people are on to squad up. It's just a waste of time alone, much like this game will probably be in the squad mode.
    Looking at stats will not show it. As recoil/spread numbers are different.
    There is massive difference to the past.
    Past you have recoil adding from the first shot and spread while both had slow reduction, controlled by your ROF. Now you have a pattern with a small randomness on each shot, ROF has no impact on what the next bullet does.
    Try bursting v single fire mode.

    You would need visual comparison.
  • TheyHaveScissors
    544 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Already takes 4 HS with an SMG to kill.

    TTK is not the issue. TTD is.

    The ease to land bullets is also the issue.
  • TFBisquit
    1224 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Still one frame deaths. But better netcode for me makes that tolerable. Nothing more infuriating than hitmakers that doesn't seem to hurt the enemy.
    For the rest, no bullet deviation makes every bullet hit with the proper recoil management, thus faster TTK.
  • filthmcnasty
    209 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    This thread turned into mouth vomit with no one making a point
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