New fly mechanics is a complete disaster

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PrecisionWing
627 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
This new fly mechanic is completely broken and nothing goes as Dice intended, if they knew what they are doing in the first place.

Some patch notes:

“Flap Scaling has been tweaked to give less maneuverability at speeds under 200 kmh”

First thing first, you can't even see the speedometer in the first person unless you use free look to turn your head to the left lower corner of your cockpit, but by doing free look, you can't control your plane, all of your control input is temporarily suspended. So WHAT’S THE POINT?

Second, your maneuverability is already reduced to the pre-patch STALL level long before you hit 200kmh. So why bother?

“Drag Coefficient is now less extreme at 90-degree angles to remove “floatiness” at low speed.”

Dumping speed is not a very interesting way to dogfight, but it’s a useful tactic since bf3 almost 7 years ago, the only problem with it is in bf5, due to DICE’s “ vision for flying that would be easy to pick up”, it has become one of the few useful tactics in dogfight. Removing that without bringing something replaceable is very irresponsible.

“Going slow will now more heavily impact your ability to maneuver your plane.”
No, you don't need to go slow to achieve that, after the patch, all of the maneuvers, pull up, push down, L/R turn are equally affected regardless of your speed. Maybe, just maybe you can turn 10% faster at full speed.

“Drag Coefficients for elevators and rudders have been separated out and tweaked to get a more physical stalling behavior as in nose down faster when stalling.”

Why stall when you can already lose most of your speed by simply doing a PULL UP to give up most of your maneuverability? And DICE do you know what’s even harder to achieve after the patch? It’s PUSH DOWN! After flying a couple of hours, I noticed planes will take much longer to get their nose down than pulling up. That’s simply ridiculous.

“Elevator lift curves are tweaked for giving optimal turns above 180 kmh. This gives you a more realistic stalling behavior and allows good pilots to use this behavior in making more advanced maneuvers. ”

If you go faster, of course, you can turn faster, this is the fact since bf3. And so many people are already complaining about when using keyboard and controllers, they can't pull up. I noticed the same issue by using a mouse. DICE, do you know what’s the most common thing for planes after the patch? Plane crash to hills, trees, bridges, etc, because pilots cant pull up due to this stupid setting.

“Drag over velocity tweaked per plane to max out at cruising speeds. This means that planes will retain energy for longer and not slow down as fast.”

Don’t know where did you Dev team get that info from. Every plane after the patch feels like a TRACTOR carrying a 10-tonne haystack with a 0.1-liter engine. Or a guy with sleep deprivation. Because I really can't feel any energy when jumping in the pilot seat.

“Gravity will affect planes more when climbing. Combined with drag changes, this makes it more viable to trade altitude for speed.”

Oh yeah, I for sure felt the gravity, it feels like my 0.1-liter plane was flying on Jupiter with 10G on my ****. The drag is also beyond measure. This combined with the inability to push down, by the time I traded the altitude for speed, the enemy plane already went back home for lunch.

My thought yesterday was DICE may want to introduce war thunder’s mechanic to BF, which was not a bad idea. But today, man, I don’t even know what to say. Too many problems and too many game breaking bugs.”The outcome was a flight model that made planes simpler to fly ... ” Well, now it’s even simpler cuz pilots don't even know WTF is this. “However, we were seeing some downsides.” I didn’t see so many downsides until the patch.

Those youtubers always want players to give “constructive” feedback. But for a fly model so broken I really can't find anything constructive to fix it. Just reverse the whole thing, and dump this plane patch to the garbage bin and use the Gutmann method to erase it 35 times.

Comments

  • 6r67uvv1n25z
    107 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Lol yeah dude, something went wrong here. I can’t figure out what they were trying to do. Doesn’t make sense. I only flew a couple maps on this patch so far. First thing I noticed in a 109 was my prop wasn’t turning full speed. It looked slow like when engine was damaged in pre patch. Like they nerfed the horsepower lol. I say make em fast but with aggressive stall characteristics. I’m not sure they know what a stall is though. I’ve done it in real life. A Cessna gives you a buzzing stall warning when it’s close. When it breaks its fast and nose down. If you’re turning when it happens you go into a spin. Straight down. This would fix the whole slow S turns in a dogfight strategy they are trying to change.
  • SirSpectacle
    771 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    After flying a couple of hours, I noticed planes will take much longer to get their nose down than pulling up. That’s simply ridiculous.

    No it's not, that's how planes work IRL. Fighter pilots are trained to do a 180 degree roll and pull back on the stick rather than pushing it forward if they want to pitch the plane towards the ground.

    It sounds like these new mechanics are going to go a long way towards separating the pilots from the wannabees.
  • Key2Destiny
    96 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I wouldn't expect too much from a dying game unfortunately
  • onylra_II
    76 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    After flying a couple of hours, I noticed planes will take much longer to get their nose down than pulling up. That’s simply ridiculous.

    No it's not, that's how planes work IRL. Fighter pilots are trained to do a 180 degree roll and pull back on the stick rather than pushing it forward if they want to pitch the plane towards the ground.

    It sounds like these new mechanics are going to go a long way towards separating the pilots from the wannabees.

    I was actually surprised at how ... decent it was. It was much harder to pull out of suicide dives, or tweak unnatural trajectories. I have a bit of experience in flight sims (I'm no pilot!), and overall I'd say it's definitely a step in the right direction. I actually had fun flying in this game for the first time, not because it was easy to kill people, but for the opposite reason - it finally feels like you're earning your kills!
  • PrecisionWing
    627 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Lol yeah dude, something went wrong here. I can’t figure out what they were trying to do. Doesn’t make sense. I only flew a couple maps on this patch so far. First thing I noticed in a 109 was my prop wasn’t turning full speed. It looked slow like when engine was damaged in pre patch. Like they nerfed the horsepower lol. I say make em fast but with aggressive stall characteristics. I’m not sure they know what a stall is though. I’ve done it in real life. A Cessna gives you a buzzing stall warning when it’s close. When it breaks its fast and nose down. If you’re turning when it happens you go into a spin. Straight down. This would fix the whole slow S turns in a dogfight strategy they are trying to change.

    Like you said, the whole fly mechanic doesn't make any sense
  • ISh1NoXI
    4 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 28
    Okay i simply thought it was a BUG - but its actually a FEATURE? pitch UP is competely useless and turning takes even more time then before - that beeing said i think they didnt even know what they are doing right here? Did they change from "Battlefield Arcade Style to Flight Simmulator?" Just curious :D
  • SirBobdk
    4014 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    @SirSpectacle wrote
    It sounds like these new mechanics are going to go a long way towards separating the pilots from the wannabees.
    How?
    It has not become more skillfull to fly. Just a lot more boring.

    BTW. nice post @PrecisionWing
  • LankRich
    115 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I honestly couldn't feel much of a difference when flying the Bombers, Mosquito or Stuka, as they handled like ferries in the first place.

    But **** me they have ruined the fighters now.. They feel gutless and exactly how they did when the game came out last year. Trying to pull out of a dive with the BF 109 is near enough impossible, it feels like its got a piano strapped to the back of it or something.

    I know that the more I sweat it out, the more familiar I may become with them, but I can't get my head around why some jobsworth at DICE decided to patch them. They were fine the way they were
  • AzafTazarden
    133 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I do think getting infantry kills with the fighters feels a lot harder now, I guess it's because of the nerf to maneuverabillity when slowing down. I also feel like it's a lot easier for me to win dogfights, for some reason. Don't know if that's just luck and I haven't vs'ed good pilots since the patch, but slowing down on the throttle feels a lot more effective now (or at least it doesn't make me that much of an easy target for decent pilots). I also haven't played that much, so I can't really pin that on the patch.

    Big planes do feel heavier now, and I gotta say I did crash a lot while getting used to it. But I think this is mostly due to the fact that we were used to things working one way before, it's just a matter of adapting.

    I don't really understand the technical terms, so these patch notes don't mean much to me, except for what I already said. That said, I'm not sure how I feel about it, it's gotten more enjoyable to fly on one hand because dogfights seem a bit more complex, but on the other hand it's harder to get ground kills, which makes flying more boring.

    The change I would actually like to see, though, is better visibility on ground targets when they're spotted. The 3D spotting doesn't quite work when enemies are spotted, it usually appears when it's too late for me to adjust my path. And when it's not late it lasts too little, so when I finally get to them, I don't know where they are anymore. It makes for really boring matches on maps like Hamada, which are so hard to spot enemies on because of the brightness of the desert and lack of decent recons who do their damn job.
  • NLBartmaN
    3172 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I really hate the fact you can't do anything about being killed by a fighter when you are in a bomber right now.

    Before this patch you could seat switch and the bomber would just stall/slow down a lot and the rear gun was capable of shooting down a plane or the fighter would just fly pass you.
    It took some effort (and experience/knowledge) to take down an enemy plane.

    Right now this is impossible and you can't do anything about a plane chasing you, there is no balance at all.

    I see more and more planes available in Breakthrough on the attackers side when the defenders have 2 fighters in the air.
    The plane balance is totally destroyed.
  • ElliotLH
    8168 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    NLBartmaN wrote: »
    I really hate the fact you can't do anything about being killed by a fighter when you are in a bomber right now.

    Before this patch you could seat switch and the bomber would just stall/slow down a lot and the rear gun was capable of shooting down a plane or the fighter would just fly pass you.
    It took some effort (and experience/knowledge) to take down an enemy plane.

    Right now this is impossible and you can't do anything about a plane chasing you, there is no balance at all.

    I see more and more planes available in Breakthrough on the attackers side when the defenders have 2 fighters in the air.
    The plane balance is totally destroyed.

    When I'm flying the JU-88C at the moment and have a fighter on my tail I'm still just aiming my plane straight up and pulling back on the throttle so it slows me right down (I don't bother using the rear MG) and most, but not all, of the time the fighter pilots have overshot me and I then melt them. I've even taking to hunting fighter planes with that plane now and it's more fun than bombing the ground.

    I get that maybe I've just not come up against any 'good' fighter pilots recently, and I'm sure today I'll eat my words due to karma, but so far I don't seem to be having many issues with this.
  • NLBartmaN
    3172 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    ElliotLH wrote: »
    NLBartmaN wrote: »
    I really hate the fact you can't do anything about being killed by a fighter when you are in a bomber right now.

    Before this patch you could seat switch and the bomber would just stall/slow down a lot and the rear gun was capable of shooting down a plane or the fighter would just fly pass you.
    It took some effort (and experience/knowledge) to take down an enemy plane.

    Right now this is impossible and you can't do anything about a plane chasing you, there is no balance at all.

    I see more and more planes available in Breakthrough on the attackers side when the defenders have 2 fighters in the air.
    The plane balance is totally destroyed.

    When I'm flying the JU-88C at the moment and have a fighter on my tail I'm still just aiming my plane straight up and pulling back on the throttle so it slows me right down (I don't bother using the rear MG) and most, but not all, of the time the fighter pilots have overshot me and I then melt them. I've even taking to hunting fighter planes with that plane now and it's more fun than bombing the ground.

    I get that maybe I've just not come up against any 'good' fighter pilots recently, and I'm sure today I'll eat my words due to karma, but so far I don't seem to be having many issues with this.

    To me it feels like fighters now can slow down the same amount and don't overshoot me anymore.
  • olavafar
    1941 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Agree to most in Ops post. Especially the part about crashing. I've always enjoyed flying 'on the edge' but now, with all planes acting as a flying brick, this has become a lot less fun. I really do not see how things have become harder, it's just slower and takes some adaptation to remember to fly a fighter as a bomber. Then one realize how boring it is to fly a bomber...
  • esturias_88
    135 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    For a start, I'd be happy to get the chance to even fly a plane every now and then. But that only happens every 3-4 maps, and then mostly when I'd rather support my teammates taking some flags...
  • ElliotLH
    8168 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    NLBartmaN wrote: »
    ElliotLH wrote: »
    NLBartmaN wrote: »
    I really hate the fact you can't do anything about being killed by a fighter when you are in a bomber right now.

    Before this patch you could seat switch and the bomber would just stall/slow down a lot and the rear gun was capable of shooting down a plane or the fighter would just fly pass you.
    It took some effort (and experience/knowledge) to take down an enemy plane.

    Right now this is impossible and you can't do anything about a plane chasing you, there is no balance at all.

    I see more and more planes available in Breakthrough on the attackers side when the defenders have 2 fighters in the air.
    The plane balance is totally destroyed.

    When I'm flying the JU-88C at the moment and have a fighter on my tail I'm still just aiming my plane straight up and pulling back on the throttle so it slows me right down (I don't bother using the rear MG) and most, but not all, of the time the fighter pilots have overshot me and I then melt them. I've even taking to hunting fighter planes with that plane now and it's more fun than bombing the ground.

    I get that maybe I've just not come up against any 'good' fighter pilots recently, and I'm sure today I'll eat my words due to karma, but so far I don't seem to be having many issues with this.

    To me it feels like fighters now can slow down the same amount and don't overshoot me anymore.

    Hmm...I'll keep an eye out for that then.

    The rounds I've played today have been all bomber and Mosquito heavy and the one fighter pilot I was against just flew in circles before bailing XD.
  • rainkloud
    548 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Yeah flight mechanics changes were not well received - at least initially:

    https://imgur.com/a/Rvqu2DW
  • PrecisionWing
    627 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    rainkloud wrote: »
    Yeah flight mechanics changes were not well received - at least initially:

    https://imgur.com/a/Rvqu2DW

    And I'm not surprised.
  • DrowStalker
    6 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    And they nerf the bomb too.
  • MarxistDictator
    4875 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    And they nerf the bomb too.

    Well obviously a 4000lb bomb dropped from aircraft was meant to feel weak and low impact. This is DICE balance, continuing on their hate-on for aircraft they've had since BF3.
  • LankRich
    115 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Still having no luck coming to terms with the way the planes feel now. I honestly think the Ilya-Muromets off BF1 had a tighter turning circle than the VA at the moment. They've ****** up so badly with this
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