#MakeSnipersGreatAgain - How to fix BF 5 scoped Air guns

bran1986 · April 15, 2019 10:13PM

xKusagamix wrote: »

It's weird that after the Beta they changed the Attrition system and give everyone more ammo and a health pouch at start but simply ignore about the effect it has on BARs.

That poor upclose damage for the BARs is because there's more people running around with less than full health and mostly you'll just need 2 shot bodyshot to kill someone in the Beta. That's how pretty much every guns in the game are designed with a specific damage model.

Other weapons are less effected by the current Attrition system but BARs are heavily rely on the ability to kill as quick as it need (higher damage upclose, not 1 hit body kill, faster time to switch to sidearm) in a game with such low TTK like BFV.

They messed up and couldn't figure out how to balance it anymore.

Heck, even Medic with SMGs could do much bettwr with the Beta's Attrition system.

This is exactly what happened. They nerfed the effects of attrition and left smgs and bolt actions exactly the same.

von_Campenstein · April 15, 2019 10:14PM

bran1986 said:

xKusagamix wrote: »

It's weird that after the Beta they changed the Attrition system and give everyone more ammo and a health pouch at start but simply ignore about the effect it has on BARs.

That poor upclose damage for the BARs is because there's more people running around with less than full health and mostly you'll just need 2 shot bodyshot to kill someone in the Beta. That's how pretty much every guns in the game are designed with a specific damage model.

Other weapons are less effected by the current Attrition system but BARs are heavily rely on the ability to kill as quick as it need (higher damage upclose, not 1 hit body kill, faster time to switch to sidearm) in a game with such low TTK like BFV.

They messed up and couldn't figure out how to balance it anymore.

Heck, even Medic with SMGs could do much bettwr with the Beta's Attrition system.

This is exactly what happened. They nerfed the effects of attrition and left smgs and bolt actions exactly the same.

Anyone and their mother could see that, yet the people developing the game somehow missed it.

mf_shro0m · April 15, 2019 10:35PM

bran1986 wrote: »

xKusagamix wrote: »

It's weird that after the Beta they changed the Attrition system and give everyone more ammo and a health pouch at start but simply ignore about the effect it has on BARs.

That poor upclose damage for the BARs is because there's more people running around with less than full health and mostly you'll just need 2 shot bodyshot to kill someone in the Beta. That's how pretty much every guns in the game are designed with a specific damage model.

Other weapons are less effected by the current Attrition system but BARs are heavily rely on the ability to kill as quick as it need (higher damage upclose, not 1 hit body kill, faster time to switch to sidearm) in a game with such low TTK like BFV.

They messed up and couldn't figure out how to balance it anymore.

Heck, even Medic with SMGs could do much bettwr with the Beta's Attrition system.

This is exactly what happened. They nerfed the effects of attrition and left smgs and bolt actions exactly the same.

Whilst medics have been impacted by the switch I don’t think SMGs were impacted that much by it. After all if there were more people running around with low health then average TTKs would fall across the board

By this point I’m starting to think that the people at Dice only ever play as assault

parkingbrake · April 15, 2019 10:38PM

-L-M3rc3n4ry said:

Snipers on BF 5 are the worst of the BF series.

Seriously, again? How many virtually identical posts on the same subject are enough? We get it, you like to play sniper and you're not happy that you can't dominate in BFV the way you did in other games, nobody is going to send you money for saying it again.

Sixclicks · April 15, 2019 10:41PM

parkingbrake said:

-L-M3rc3n4ry said:

Snipers on BF 5 are the worst of the BF series.

Seriously, again? How many virtually identical posts on the same subject are enough? We get it, you like to play sniper and you're not happy that you can't dominate in BFV the way you did in other games, nobody is going to send you money for saying it again.

The class never dominated in any BF game.

parkingbrake · April 15, 2019 10:51PM

olavafar said:

I say this is pretty much every thread like this. Gun balance if fairly OK I think. I play all classes and guns and they all work almost equally well for objective play. Main difference between classes is the AT capabilities which makes Assault superior to the others.

I'd be okay with an increase in BAR bullet velocity, it's absurdly low now. And I'd be okay with OHK upper torso shots at very close range, and with the 3x scope losing glint. But beyond that this is just sniper addicts wanting their mode of play to be buffed regardless of what that does to game balance. This is why specialist players should be ignored when balance issues are discussed--they care only about their scores, balance is the furthest thing from their mind. That applies to full-time tankers and pilots too, it isn't unique to "snipers" (a "sniper" is someone who forgets that the name of his favorite class is actually "Recon"). Hopefully DICE continues to ignore this noisy and selfish clique.

parkingbrake · April 15, 2019 10:56PM

Sixclicks said:

parkingbrake said:

-L-M3rc3n4ry said:

Snipers on BF 5 are the worst of the BF series.

Seriously, again? How many virtually identical posts on the same subject are enough? We get it, you like to play sniper and you're not happy that you can't dominate in BFV the way you did in other games, nobody is going to send you money for saying it again.

The class never dominated in any BF game.

Fair enough, poor choice of words. So let's change it to something like OHK as many players as he was able to do previously. Meanwhile, back on planet Earth, I know when I'm being shot at by a poor sniper vs. a good sniper. In the former case I hear the crack as his shot misses, in the latter case I'm dead because he got a headshot on me sprinting over broken ground as if I weren't moving. There sure seem to be a lot of that latter type out there, so I really don't see the need to make things any easier for them.

mf_shro0m · April 15, 2019 11:11PM

parkingbrake wrote: »

Sixclicks said:

parkingbrake said:

-L-M3rc3n4ry said:
Snipers on BF 5 are the worst of the BF series.

Seriously, again? How many virtually identical posts on the same subject are enough? We get it, you like to play sniper and you're not happy that you can't dominate in BFV the way you did in other games, nobody is going to send you money for saying it again.

The class never dominated in any BF game.

Fair enough, poor choice of words. So let's change it to something like OHK as many players as he was able to do previously. Meanwhile, back on planet Earth, I know when I'm being shot at by a poor sniper vs. a good sniper. In the former case I hear the crack as his shot misses, in the latter case I'm dead because he got a headshot on me sprinting over broken ground as if I weren't moving. There sure seem to be a lot of that latter type out there, so I really don't see the need to make things any easier for them.

That’s if they shoot. A lot of snipers won’t shoot unless they’re certain they’ll land a headshot.
In any case given how many recons there are it becomes a numbers game. The more people there are aiming at you, the higher the odds of someone landing a headshot

Plus, no-ones asking for OHK to chest at all ranges, just close-medium range. What would that mean? The campers don’t benefit because you have to be close to the target to benefit

von_Campenstein · April 15, 2019 11:11PM

Yeah lets not make bolt action viable in the last big war they were actually a viable alternative in.

parkingbrake · April 15, 2019 11:26PM

ThemPingsLOL said:

Yeah lets not make bolt action viable in the last big war they were actually a viable alternative in.

Are you under the impression BAR sniper rifles are no longer viable? With the exception of the Barrett 82 most of today's military sniper rifles are still bolt-action.

parkingbrake · April 15, 2019 11:36PM

y_j_es_i said:

parkingbrake wrote: »

Sixclicks said:

parkingbrake said:

-L-M3rc3n4ry said:
Snipers on BF 5 are the worst of the BF series.

Seriously, again? How many virtually identical posts on the same subject are enough? We get it, you like to play sniper and you're not happy that you can't dominate in BFV the way you did in other games, nobody is going to send you money for saying it again.

The class never dominated in any BF game.

Fair enough, poor choice of words. So let's change it to something like OHK as many players as he was able to do previously. Meanwhile, back on planet Earth, I know when I'm being shot at by a poor sniper vs. a good sniper. In the former case I hear the crack as his shot misses, in the latter case I'm dead because he got a headshot on me sprinting over broken ground as if I weren't moving. There sure seem to be a lot of that latter type out there, so I really don't see the need to make things any easier for them.

That’s if they shoot. A lot of snipers won’t shoot unless they’re certain they’ll land a headshot.
In any case given how many recons there are it becomes a numbers game. The more people there are aiming at you, the higher the odds of someone landing a headshot

Plus, no-ones asking for OHK to chest at all ranges, just close-medium range. What would that mean? The campers don’t benefit because you have to be close to the target to benefit

I'm fine with upper torso OHK at short range, but "medium" might be a bit much. I'd also be fine with higher bullet velocities for BARs and no glint on the 3x, or at least glint that is toned down. But something tells me some folks want more than that, actually I've seen people suggest more than that would be a great idea, e.g. scope glare completely removed. An effectively invisible player who can OHK from far enough that it would be tough to know where he's firing from is not balanced. But specialist players aren't concerned about balance, they're all about their scores, that's why game designers should generally not pay much attention to them.

von_Campenstein · April 15, 2019 11:47PM

parkingbrake said:

ThemPingsLOL said:

Yeah lets not make bolt action viable in the last big war they were actually a viable alternative in.

Are you under the impression BAR sniper rifles are no longer viable? With the exception of the Barrett 82 most of today's military sniper rifles are still bolt-action.

Clearly they are useless as they never kill anyone unless they hit them in the head.

mf_shro0m · April 16, 2019 12:12AM

parkingbrake wrote: »

y_j_es_i said:

parkingbrake wrote: »
Sixclicks said:

parkingbrake said:

-L-M3rc3n4ry said:

Snipers on BF 5 are the worst of the BF series.

Seriously, again? How many virtually identical posts on the same subject are enough? We get it, you like to play sniper and you're not happy that you can't dominate in BFV the way you did in other games, nobody is going to send you money for saying it again.

The class never dominated in any BF game.

Fair enough, poor choice of words. So let's change it to something like OHK as many players as he was able to do previously. Meanwhile, back on planet Earth, I know when I'm being shot at by a poor sniper vs. a good sniper. In the former case I hear the crack as his shot misses, in the latter case I'm dead because he got a headshot on me sprinting over broken ground as if I weren't moving. There sure seem to be a lot of that latter type out there, so I really don't see the need to make things any easier for them.

That’s if they shoot. A lot of snipers won’t shoot unless they’re certain they’ll land a headshot.

In any case given how many recons there are it becomes a numbers game. The more people there are aiming at you, the higher the odds of someone landing a headshot

Plus, no-ones asking for OHK to chest at all ranges, just close-medium range. What would that mean? The campers don’t benefit because you have to be close to the target to benefit

I'm fine with upper torso OHK at short range, but "medium" might be a bit much. I'd also be fine with higher bullet velocities for BARs and no glint on the 3x, or at least glint that is toned down. But something tells me some folks want more than that, actually I've seen people suggest more than that would be a great idea, e.g. scope glare completely removed. An effectively invisible player who can OHK from far enough that it would be tough to know where he's firing from is not balanced. But specialist players aren't concerned about balance, they're all about their scores, that's why game designers should generally not pay much attention to them.

‘I'm fine with upper torso OHK at short range, but "medium" might be a bit much. I'd also be fine with higher bullet velocities for BARs and no glint on the 3x, or at least glint that is toned down.’

That’s what myself and at least 4 of the other vocal people in this thread want.

We aren’t asking for 2000m/s muzzle velocities, just realistic ones.

I think the lower damage BAs (Enfield, Krag) should OHK to the chest up to 30m and the higher damage ones (G95, Kar) should OHK to the chest up to 60m. The higher damage ones could also OHK to the lower torso up to 30m.
Heck, they could make them not OHK within 10m too so they aren’t like shotguns

The people asking for OHK anywhere at any distance, we disagree with too

Sixclicks · April 16, 2019 12:19AM

I think 30 and 60 is way too far personally. 20 meters at most imo. Even that seems a little high. In BF4 we had one hit kills to the chest out to 12.5 meters.

We really don't even need one hit kills to make PTFO with bolt actions a more attractive option. It was great in BF1 because the bolt actions hit for a high enough damage at close ranges that you could swap to your pistol in a reasonable amount of time (400 ms) to finish the kill.

It wasn't so fast that you were easily out-gunning classes that were designed for closer ranged combat, but it was still viable with quick reflexes and high accuracy. Especially if you were mindful of your positioning to give yourself a bit of a handicap for the slower 400 ms best case scenario TTK that you could achieve by swapping.

With the bolt actions we have now and the slower swapping secondaries, it's no longer really viable. Especially when other weapons have much lower TTKs in comparison. Hitting for 60 damage means you can only really finish that kill with the revolver. Any other pistol is going to take too many shots - you'll be dead before you can even get them off against a competent player. And unfortunately the revolver is pretty slow to draw. Even the higher damage bolt actions are still going to require a couple of shots with your pistol to finish a kill besides the revolver.

mf_shro0m · April 16, 2019 12:42AM

Sixclicks wrote: »

I think 30 and 60 is way too far personally. 20 meters at most imo. Even that seems a little high. In BF4 we had one hit kills to the chest out to 12.5 meters.

We really don't even need one hit kills to make PTFO with bolt actions a more attractive option. It was great in BF1 because the bolt actions hit for a high enough damage at close ranges that you could swap to your pistol in a reasonable amount of time (400 ms) to finish the kill.

It wasn't so fast that you were easily out-gunning classes that were designed for closer ranged combat, but it was still viable with quick reflexes and high accuracy. Especially if you were mindful of your positioning to give yourself a bit of a handicap for the slower 400 ms best case scenario TTK that you could achieve by swapping.

With the bolt actions we have now and the slower swapping secondaries, it's no longer really viable. Especially when other weapons have much lower TTKs in comparison. Hitting for 60 damage means you can only really finish that kill with the revolver. Any other pistol is going to take too many shots - you'll be dead before you can even get them off against a competent player. And unfortunately the revolver is pretty slow to draw. Even the higher damage bolt actions are still going to require a couple of shots with your pistol to finish a kill besides the revolver.

The swapping time is a consideration like you said. Even if the swapping times in BFV were faster a recon would be doomed if he came across more than one hostile.

One reason for why I’m against limiting the OHK range to 12m and would be up for making BA’s OHK from 10-30m and 10-60m is that getting quickscoped by quickscopers in CQC is actually more annoying than getting sniped when we’re 30m apart. I was playing CoD WWII before I started playing BFV and quickscopers running around in CQC is f***ing annoying. Making BAs OHK past 10m would also leave the <10m range as shotgun territory

The majority of the engagements in BFV are at 20-100m. If BAs were only OHK within 12m then recons would often have to try to land multiple pistol rounds at 50-100m or a second BA round and so ptfo would still be very difficult. It would also say to recons either you get up real close and use your gun like a shotgun or you stay at a range where you stand a good chance of landing 2 BA rounds which doesn’t really help.

If however BAs could OHK to the chest at 10-30m and 10-60m then recons would be incentivised to stay within 30m or 60m of the enemies which is optimal for ptfo

mf_shro0m · April 16, 2019 12:43AM

Sixclicks wrote: »

I think 30 and 60 is way too far personally. 20 meters at most imo. Even that seems a little high. In BF4 we had one hit kills to the chest out to 12.5 meters.

We really don't even need one hit kills to make PTFO with bolt actions a more attractive option. It was great in BF1 because the bolt actions hit for a high enough damage at close ranges that you could swap to your pistol in a reasonable amount of time (400 ms) to finish the kill.

It wasn't so fast that you were easily out-gunning classes that were designed for closer ranged combat, but it was still viable with quick reflexes and high accuracy. Especially if you were mindful of your positioning to give yourself a bit of a handicap for the slower 400 ms best case scenario TTK that you could achieve by swapping.

With the bolt actions we have now and the slower swapping secondaries, it's no longer really viable. Especially when other weapons have much lower TTKs in comparison. Hitting for 60 damage means you can only really finish that kill with the revolver. Any other pistol is going to take too many shots - you'll be dead before you can even get them off against a competent player. And unfortunately the revolver is pretty slow to draw. Even the higher damage bolt actions are still going to require a couple of shots with your pistol to finish a kill besides the revolver.

What platform are you on? On Xbox I bet that only 33% of players can land a chest or head shot 1st time on a moving target more than 80% of the time

Hawxxeye · April 16, 2019 7:39AM

As far as sniper rifles are concerned, what is desperately need is not OHK chests as much as drastically better muzzle velocity and higher max and min damage (but bellow 100).

While I am leveling the Lee enfield in conjunction with the sniper subclass I feel like if I am using the dart gun from BFH and Bad company to basically spot-tag enemies for the team instead of killing people (both in terms of damage and velocity)

AduaneroKill · April 16, 2019 9:42AM

I think they are pretty well balanced.

Because you got the potential to destroy enemies with one shot using bolt actions.
They just are hard to use, but rewarding and challenging while you are getting the skill.

My only complain are SLR: Model 8 and RSC needs to be always a 2-shot kill, no matter distance and no scoping glint. This would be perfectly balanced to compete with SAR.

Anyway I really get fun playing this class, when I suck sniping just swtich to another automatic weapon. But that days when you got at least 35-40% accuraccy, its a pleasure headshotting people.

My best bolt action its the ross. Its well balanced between ROF, muzzle Speed and reload times. Perfect for domination, my favourite game mode.

Hawxxeye · April 16, 2019 10:12AM

AduaneroKill said:

Because you got the potential to destroy enemies with one shot using bolt actions.
They just are hard to use, but rewarding and challenging while you are getting the skill.

If a person is amazing with the bolt actions eg. Stodeh, they are even more amazing with better weapons like ARs, SARs and MGs.

Just because one very good player can have good results against much worse players, does not make them balanced.

Balance implies that you get enough in return for giving up something else and considering that I have been destroyed in less than half a second by a turner SMLE where headshots were involved, I think that the bolt actions have not gained enough to compensate for what they have lost. Ergo they are not balanced.

AduaneroKill · April 16, 2019 1:12PM

Hawxxeye wrote: »

AduaneroKill said:

Because you got the potential to destroy enemies with one shot using bolt actions.

They just are hard to use, but rewarding and challenging while you are getting the skill.

If a person is amazing with the bolt actions eg. Stodeh, they are even more amazing with better weapons like ARs, SARs and MGs.Just because one very good player can have good results against much worse players, does not make them balanced.Balance implies that you get enough in return for giving up something else and considering that I have been destroyed in less than half a second by a turner SMLE where headshots were involved, I think that the bolt actions have not gained enough to compensate for what they have lost. Ergo they are not balanced.

True, but think about BF1.
Snipers were a true problem, because they were easy to use, due to sweet spot mecanic.
So we got at least 15 snipers per team, doing attrition impossible.
More so, the long distances in BFV would became this class overpowered just for the engadments distances.
In my FPS in general and Battlefield games experiences, I think that less power to campers, better game you get.
But you said the truth: its unbalanced.

#MakeSnipersGreatAgain - How to fix BF 5 scoped Air guns

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