32 bit, 384000 Hz

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STOPchris
481 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
I tried about 10 modern games at 32 bit 384000 Hz and the ONLY ones that did not work are Dice games (BF1 and BF5). What gives Dice, are you a bit behind the times?  

Comments

  • TNA_SneakyMonkey
    546 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited May 21
    And you probably turned the game off, listened to an mp3 and didn't notice.
    Post edited by TNA_SneakyMonkey on
  • zenn_nme
    754 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    No need to run with 32 bit 38400; our ears simply can’t detect it due to hearing’s frequency limits.



  • Sw1ts
    115 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    24bit 44100Hz its ok if u go above its useless.
  • Carbonic
    1215 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    24bit or 32bit doesn't really make sense outside of a recording studio as 16 bits is enough to cover the real hearing range with room to spare. Until we get artificial or genetically enhanced ears this will continue to be the case.
    You are calling DICE behind the times because they don't waste harddrive space on artificially inflated files with no extra fidelity.

    When you say "it doesn't work" do you mean it crashes or? I tried setting my sound settings to 32bit/192000Hz without any issues.
  • STOPchris
    481 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    I like all the "our ears can't tell the difference", same false argument as the "you can't tell the difference of anything above 60Hz... Maybe on your garbage speakers you can't tell. Anyway, it really doesn't matter, this is the only modern game that I've played that doesn't support this. 

    Carbonic, it does run fine at 192000 Hz, like I said it doesn't at 384000 Hz. 
  • TNA_SneakyMonkey
    546 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited May 25
    I run the game over a pair of flat-response self-powered studio monitors with an independently powered Yamaha sub and a pair of Sennheiser 555s modded to 565s. Everything runs through a Focusrite external soundboard. I'm a musician and audiophile.

    The only difference is that I'm not fooled by "bigger numbers is always better marketing". It's certainly good for Creative's bottom line.

    If you don't have the speakers to support ultra high-quality sound it's pointless anyway, and you're talking multiple thousands of dollars per speaker to even hope to hear a difference.
  • STOPchris
    481 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    I run the game over a pair of flat-response self-powered studio monitors with an independently powered Yamaha sub and a pair of Sennheiser 555s modded to 565s. Everything runs through a Focusrite external soundboard. I'm a musician and audiophile.

    The only difference is that I'm not fooled by "bigger numbers is always better marketing". It's certainly good for Creative's bottom line.

    If you don't have the speakers to support ultra high-quality sound it's pointless anyway, and you're talking multiple thousands of dollars per speaker to even hope to hear a difference.
    More non-sense TNA, I am an audiophile... Otherwise, this conversation would not exist. Yes, I cannot tell the difference between 32 bit and 24 bit, but never did I say anything about that. The difference between 384000 Hz and 192000 Hz is subtle, but there is a difference that I notice when listening to music. I do admit that playing a game doesn't matter between 384000 Hz and 192000 Hz, but I prefer NOT to have to go into Windows audio settings every time I want to play a 60 dollar AAA game... 
  • iamwiener
    73 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Although not really of importance for a pc game imo, it is probably not true that frequencies outside our hearing range are not of importance. Frequencies do interact with each other and cutting them off will result in different sound. However, as said above: you need hardware that can play these frequency ranges, of course.
  • CSO7777
    1081 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited May 25
    STOPchris said:
    More non-sense TNA, I am an audiophile... Otherwise, this conversation would not exist. Yes, I cannot tell the difference between 32 bit and 24 bit, but never did I say anything about that. The difference between 384000 Hz and 192000 Hz is subtle, but there is a difference that I notice when listening to music. I do admit that playing a game doesn't matter between 384000 Hz and 192000 Hz, but I prefer NOT to have to go into Windows audio settings every time I want to play a 60 dollar AAA game... 
    People cannot find the difference of 16 bit/44100 Hz and 24 bit/96000 Hz in AB-blind-testing. This has been proven many times.

    And the sound in BFV is not recorded in 192000 Hz (or higher), it will be upsampled which is another problem. The algorithm Windows uses, is optimized for speed and not sound-quality, so using a higher sample-frequency most likely makes the sound worse than playing at the native frequency. You should be able to hear that as "an audiophile".

    The only real advantage of using higher sample-frequencies is the low-pass-filtering of unwanted high frequencies and this can make a difference to sound (most higher end DAC's have different low-pass-filters).
  • STOPchris
    481 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    CSO7777 said:
    STOPchris said:
    More non-sense TNA, I am an audiophile... Otherwise, this conversation would not exist. Yes, I cannot tell the difference between 32 bit and 24 bit, but never did I say anything about that. The difference between 384000 Hz and 192000 Hz is subtle, but there is a difference that I notice when listening to music. I do admit that playing a game doesn't matter between 384000 Hz and 192000 Hz, but I prefer NOT to have to go into Windows audio settings every time I want to play a 60 dollar AAA game... 
    People cannot find the difference of 16 bit/44100 Hz and 24 bit/96000 Hz in AB-blind-testing. This has been proven many times.

    And the sound in BFV is not recorded in 192000 Hz (or higher), it will be upsampled which is another problem. The algorithm Windows uses, is optimized for speed and not sound-quality, so using a higher sample-frequency most likely makes the sound worse than playing at the native frequency. You should be able to hear that as "an audiophile".

    The only real advantage of using higher sample-frequencies is the low-pass-filtering of unwanted high frequencies and this can make a difference to sound (most higher end DAC's have different low-pass-filters).
    Just shut up already, this is the same BS that you people always spout. 
  • Niick1402
    76 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    STOPchris said:
    CSO7777 said:
    STOPchris said:
    More non-sense TNA, I am an audiophile... Otherwise, this conversation would not exist. Yes, I cannot tell the difference between 32 bit and 24 bit, but never did I say anything about that. The difference between 384000 Hz and 192000 Hz is subtle, but there is a difference that I notice when listening to music. I do admit that playing a game doesn't matter between 384000 Hz and 192000 Hz, but I prefer NOT to have to go into Windows audio settings every time I want to play a 60 dollar AAA game... 
    People cannot find the difference of 16 bit/44100 Hz and 24 bit/96000 Hz in AB-blind-testing. This has been proven many times.

    And the sound in BFV is not recorded in 192000 Hz (or higher), it will be upsampled which is another problem. The algorithm Windows uses, is optimized for speed and not sound-quality, so using a higher sample-frequency most likely makes the sound worse than playing at the native frequency. You should be able to hear that as "an audiophile".

    The only real advantage of using higher sample-frequencies is the low-pass-filtering of unwanted high frequencies and this can make a difference to sound (most higher end DAC's have different low-pass-filters).
    Just shut up already, this is the same BS that you people always spout. 

    Did you ever consider that this "BS" is being repeated by everyone is because there's a truth to it? Read the info in the link below if you can be bothered to inform yourself.
    https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/sample_rates.html
    Also maybe you should explain why someone's wrong instead of saying they're talking nonsense or calling BS.


  • Jinko_itx
    686 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    the Z270/370/390 boards can go up to 24 bit 48KHz without using additional cpu power, any higher, you will be tapping into your cpu, besides this game like every other AAA game is at 16 bit/44/48KHz
  • Jinko_itx
    686 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    STOPchris said:
    CSO7777 said:
    STOPchris said:
    More non-sense TNA, I am an audiophile... Otherwise, this conversation would not exist. Yes, I cannot tell the difference between 32 bit and 24 bit, but never did I say anything about that. The difference between 384000 Hz and 192000 Hz is subtle, but there is a difference that I notice when listening to music. I do admit that playing a game doesn't matter between 384000 Hz and 192000 Hz, but I prefer NOT to have to go into Windows audio settings every time I want to play a 60 dollar AAA game... 
    People cannot find the difference of 16 bit/44100 Hz and 24 bit/96000 Hz in AB-blind-testing. This has been proven many times.

    And the sound in BFV is not recorded in 192000 Hz (or higher), it will be upsampled which is another problem. The algorithm Windows uses, is optimized for speed and not sound-quality, so using a higher sample-frequency most likely makes the sound worse than playing at the native frequency. You should be able to hear that as "an audiophile".

    The only real advantage of using higher sample-frequencies is the low-pass-filtering of unwanted high frequencies and this can make a difference to sound (most higher end DAC's have different low-pass-filters).
    Just shut up already, this is the same BS that you people always spout. 
    actually, i can most definately hear a difference between 16 bit 44KHz and 24 bit 192KHz, ...very pronounced if you have quality audio hardware..
  • Jinko_itx
    686 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Carbonic said:
    24bit or 32bit doesn't really make sense outside of a recording studio as 16 bits is enough to cover the real hearing range with room to spare. Until we get artificial or genetically enhanced ears this will continue to be the case.
    You are calling DICE behind the times because they don't waste harddrive space on artificially inflated files with no extra fidelity.

    When you say "it doesn't work" do you mean it crashes or? I tried setting my sound settings to 32bit/192000Hz without any issues.
    the reason for reaching such depth and resolution is just .for..that reason. its not that I can hear frequencies that high, its increasing the noise floor as much as possible and also its like Anti-Ailising for your ears, and in order to really enjoy a recorded 24 bit file, you really need sound hardware (I have the Sennheiser IE 800s) in order to take advantage of those settings. Just like having a monitor with 144 Hz to reach the smoothness of a video.
  • STOPchris
    481 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Jinko_itx said:
    Carbonic said:
    24bit or 32bit doesn't really make sense outside of a recording studio as 16 bits is enough to cover the real hearing range with room to spare. Until we get artificial or genetically enhanced ears this will continue to be the case.
    You are calling DICE behind the times because they don't waste harddrive space on artificially inflated files with no extra fidelity.

    When you say "it doesn't work" do you mean it crashes or? I tried setting my sound settings to 32bit/192000Hz without any issues.
    the reason for reaching such depth and resolution is just .for..that reason. its not that I can hear frequencies that high, its increasing the noise floor as much as possible and also its like Anti-Ailising for your ears, and in order to really enjoy a recorded 24 bit file, you really need sound hardware (I have the Sennheiser IE 800s) in order to take advantage of those settings. Just like having a monitor with 144 Hz to reach the smoothness of a video.
    There is no rationalizing with people like this, it IS like the 144-240Hz argument. There are still people out there that believe that we cannot tell a difference above 24Hz... 
  • STOPchris
    481 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Jinko_itx said:
    STOPchris said:
    CSO7777 said:
    STOPchris said:
    More non-sense TNA, I am an audiophile... Otherwise, this conversation would not exist. Yes, I cannot tell the difference between 32 bit and 24 bit, but never did I say anything about that. The difference between 384000 Hz and 192000 Hz is subtle, but there is a difference that I notice when listening to music. I do admit that playing a game doesn't matter between 384000 Hz and 192000 Hz, but I prefer NOT to have to go into Windows audio settings every time I want to play a 60 dollar AAA game... 
    People cannot find the difference of 16 bit/44100 Hz and 24 bit/96000 Hz in AB-blind-testing. This has been proven many times.

    And the sound in BFV is not recorded in 192000 Hz (or higher), it will be upsampled which is another problem. The algorithm Windows uses, is optimized for speed and not sound-quality, so using a higher sample-frequency most likely makes the sound worse than playing at the native frequency. You should be able to hear that as "an audiophile".

    The only real advantage of using higher sample-frequencies is the low-pass-filtering of unwanted high frequencies and this can make a difference to sound (most higher end DAC's have different low-pass-filters).
    Just shut up already, this is the same BS that you people always spout. 
    actually, i can most definately hear a difference between 16 bit 44KHz and 24 bit 192KHz, ...very pronounced if you have quality audio hardware..
    OK, well I definitely have the hardware. I can for sure tell the difference. I can say that not everyone can tell the difference. Some people either do not care to hear the difference, or simply do not have the ear for it. For some of us, we can hear the difference and WANT to hear the difference. Again, for a game I really do not care, but would like to not to have to go into the audio settings in Windows and turn it down every time for just this one game.... Which is the REAL issue at play here. 
  • iamwiener
    73 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I once did a blind test. Was 100% right and in 9 out of 10 without hesitating or re-listening. Due to my job, my ears might be trained. But just because others aren't trained or used to differ sound quality doesn't mean that "humans" aren't able to hear the difference. It is as if you say that 99,9% of all Europeans don't speak Japanese hence Japanese is a non existing language on earth.
  • serpico074
    124 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Frostbite sound files are produced at source 24 bit 96khz uncompressed PCM, dithered down to 16bit 48khz and compressed to .cas files in the engine to keep all the sound files at realistic sizes. You can extract the raw files with Python 2.7.6 as per here instructions here  https://forum.xentax.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=19074 if you want to confirm for yourself and then analyse them with any modern capable DAW.

    They are then played through the engine and converted back to PCM audio at your sounds cards sample / bit rate via whatever DAC you use of course.

    The highest possible audio quality you can achieve, configuration wise, is by setting your output device to 48khz and at least 16 bit with output in game to Surround and Large speakers, since that involves no additional re-sampling or added dynamic range compression. Using a higher bit rate will not reap any audio benefits since the audio data itself is quantized to 16 bits of data and all the sounds are heavily "produced" with baked-in dynamic range compression already. Re-sampling at a silly rate like 384khz just involves not only additional CPU load but can also cause (depending on the device driver/algorithm) quantization harmonics (distortions) as the result of math rounding errors which would need additional dithering to remove (but sound card drivers don't automatically apply) and in some content (especially low frequency heavy) can result in problems such as DC offset which effectively reduces dynamic range. There is never any point in re-sampling audio above it's source quality for the purposes of simply listening to it unless you need to do so for compatibility reasons like a device just doesn't function at a certain sample rate (incredible unlikely these days).

    TLDR. Most "Audiophiles" are great examples of Dunning-Kruger in full effect. They know nothing about the science and technicality of actual audio production and have never worked in the field. I have blind A/B tested myself and many others over the years and the only thing people can reliably tell at best is the difference between compressed and uncompressed audio (.mp3 versus .wav etc), and when sample rates start to fall below 48khz - if they are not directly A/B comparing sample rate within a few seconds of each other then they can't even tell at all with 100% consistency. They convince themselves of their own placebo and reveal it to anyone with actual working knowledge with seconds of opening their mouths.

    That's not to say audio quality can't be better or worse, but it's nearly always due to things like the quality of op amps, converters and algorithms used at both source and playback, not the sample rate.
    Hi, as default Realtek uses this setting, do you think they are right? Thanks for any advice.


  • CSO7777
    1081 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited May 26
    serpico074 said:
    Hi, as default Realtek uses this setting, do you think they are right? Thanks for any advice.


    The volume control of the Windows sound-mixer changes the values output to the soundcard anyway (volume is done by math on each sample), so the bit-depth is not important, unless is is lower than the source material (16 bit). Using the correct sample-rate is the most important thing.

    You should be fine using 24 bits.
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