And this is how good developers at Dice learned history

Comments

  • xXHamatoYoshiXx
    198 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Who cares what this guy's name is? Jesus Christ why must we be such big crybabies and children about things? The fact that the swastika and other things are being taken out of the game is an insult to historical events regardless. Look at Wolfenstein, the entire game is about how the N**** took over America, and is full of swastikas left and right. It is war, war is ugly, war is terrible, etc...etc...The moment a person can't deal with a symbol in a video game, is the moment that person shouldn't be playing video games at all. 
  • SlowOldWarrior
    460 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    the name is being changed, drama over.
    Do you honestly believe that?  So all it will take to make this whole better is to change the name of the guy with the flamboyant face patch to "Helmut Willie"?

    No such luck bucko - "I Don't think that Gurkha knives should be in the game because of imperialist symbolism", what new name should we pick for the knife?
  • StarscreamUK
    7337 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    no, this is the internet, people will make drama over anything. the fact is the name is being changed so the drama SHOULD be over.
  • TFBisquit
    1747 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Rex_Holez wrote: »
    Why is the word n azi even censored? It isn't a swear word, and it is part of a very bad (but important) part of history. 

    I notice communist and socialist aren't censored and they've killed more people than n azis ever did. 

    If my post gets deleted for using that word, I genuinely pity the mod who deleted it. 

    Was wondering about that also. Maybe some will find a way to abuse others with certain words? Maybe some feel proud to be associated with that naming...
  • PvtJohnTowle
    976 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Sorry! Page not found.
    The article you requested has either been moved or removed from the site.
  • Trokey66
    8601 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Toxic_CA said:


    StarscreamUK wrote: »
    the name is being changed, drama over.



    This thread is so dumb. It was an honest mistake. Like are they supposed to research every single name they put together?


    The movie and TV industries have done that for decades, names of characters--especially bad guys--are checked to make sure there isn't someone of that name in that city who could claim the character in the movie/show is based on him and so he's suing for $57,000,000 because now everybody thinks he's a mob hitman (or they use a name so common no one person can claim it's him).  Sounds silly, but they do it.

    Have you never seen a statement along these lines.......

    Names, characters, businesses, places, events, locales, and incidents are either the products of the author's imagination or used in a fictitious manner. Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, or actual events is purely coincidental.

    Nor sure if it can be found in BFV though.
  • llPhantom_Limbll
    5744 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Sorry! Page not found.
    The article you requested has either been moved or removed from the site.
    I've posted the whole article 2 posts below OP just in case.
  • Ploodovic
    1642 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    StarscreamUK said:
    the name is being changed, drama over.

    Do you honestly believe that?  So all it will take to make this whole better is to change the name of the guy with the flamboyant face patch to "Helmut Willie"?

    No such luck bucko - "I Don't think that Gurkha knives should be in the game because of imperialist symbolism", what new name should we pick for the knife?

    Please expand your point, because I don’t follow the logic. You’re quoting someone who’s talking about the kukri? But “Kukri” is literally the weapon’s name, why use something else?
  • ElliotLH
    8658 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    TFBisquit wrote: »
    Rex_Holez wrote: »
    Why is the word n azi even censored? It isn't a swear word, and it is part of a very bad (but important) part of history. 

    I notice communist and socialist aren't censored and they've killed more people than n azis ever did. 

    If my post gets deleted for using that word, I genuinely pity the mod who deleted it. 

    Was wondering about that also. Maybe some will find a way to abuse others with certain words? Maybe some feel proud to be associated with that naming...

    Avoiding the obvious reasons why some people may be offended it can have other words put in from of it to insult others, such as 'femi', which could also be a reason.
  • The_BERG_366
    2445 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Oh, that's because of your usual censorship you meet in this place.
    Here's the full article text.

    Turning a war against fascism that occurred within living memory and resulted in the deaths of more than 70 million people into a mass-market entertainment product is inevitably going to be an undertaking fraught with risk. It's easier in single-player games—N*** are bad and you do interesting things to them with hatchets—but how do you handle a multiplayer experience where one side has to portray literal N***? It's a situation that can bite you in the **** in all sorts of unexpected ways. 

    Case in point, a recently-revealed Battlefield 5 Elite character named Wilhelm Franke. He is very N*** as portrayed in his promo trailer, kind of like a cross between Hans Landa and the Red Skull, although he studiously avoids wearing a swastika because that would be awkward. But what's really awkward for EA, as noted by Vice, is that Wilhelm Franke is the name of an actual member of the anti-fascist resistance in Germany before and during the Second World War. He was arrested at least twice for his activities, according to Wikipedia (Google translated), before he and his family were killed in the Dresden firebombings. 

    "We’ve become aware that one of the names of our Elites, Wilhelm Franke, shares the name of a real life resistance member in Germany during the Second World War," Electronic Arts said in a statement. "We want to apologize as we certainly didn’t mean any disrespect to him. We are in the process now of changing the name of our Elite in the game." 

    But EA also insisted that Franke, despite being a high-ranking officer in the N*** war machine who stops all the action around him so he can watch an enemy soldier die slowly, is not actually a N*** at all, but just a regular ol' German soldier, like all the other regular, totally non-N*** German soldiers in the game. "In Battlefield 5, we're not making any political statements in relation to the real life events of WW2 and there are no swastikas in the game," it said. 

    That's an astonishing thing to say. Obviously there were plenty of "regular guy" German soldiers who fought in the war but this isn't Karl from Platoon B who got conscripted when things went sideways in Italy that we're talking about. The soon-to-be-former Wilhelm Franke is very clearly portrayed in the video as a stereotypical, through-and-through N*** villain—cold, haughty, murderous, impeccably dressed by Hugo Boss—and leaving the swastika off his sleeve doesn't change that. You can debate the merits of using N*** as videogame villains (and this is a perfect example of why, if you're going to do it, you need to do your homework first), but pretending that they're not actually N*** at all is ridiculous and, frankly, embarrassing. 

    VICE lol. vice survives only by looking to find everything that can somehow be interpreted as not politically correct and get offended over it, click-baiting people into reading their articles about celebrities full of false claims and defamation attempts. 
    its very much understandable that EA doesnt want to associate with any political statements regarding ww2 as its pretty much immediately implying bad publicity.
    now in recent years pretty much every non-documentary movie or story of any form that was published related to ww2 portrayed "strong" or "powerfull" german soldiers as inherently "bad". they are always the bad guys, which is reasonable. however as such they come with traits such as cold blooded, calculating, relentless and hence this defined our view as to what the society relates to such a soldier. at the same time those traits were directly connected to **** (most of the time even defined through the very same figures that happen to be "strong" german soldiers and **** at the same time) as well. there is a direct two sided implication between traits of strong ww2 germans and ****. as such i don't see how you can create a "classical" or in this sense "authentic" **** german ww2 soldier that doesnt share these traits with ****. hence the critique the article mentions about clearly portraying the elites as **** and indirectly implying that this was by choice is invalid imo. of course one could introduce more generic elites such as the allied sniper woman that got introduced along with willhelm. however considering that our definition of a ww2 german soldier is so much more refined than the one of any other ww2 solider would make an introduction of such a generic german elite even less authentic then its introduction as an allied elite. 

    now given the choice to introduce such a character there are only two different outcomes: if they call him a **** people are getting offended because one can play a proper **** in bfv that is also portrayed to be ****, which is positive in some way which in turn is unacceptable for a **** to some. if they don't call him a **** then there will be articles like this one claiming that they "lie" about his identity.

    now i do understand the critique in terms of the name choice. arguably this name choice was one of the worst possible :joy:
    however i think that this naming mistake just gave rise to another issue that was already there before, namely the way german elites are portrayed in the first place. 
  • MidriffUrchin0
    116 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    edited June 7
    Who cares, everyone getting their knickers in a twist over a video game. Yeah ****'s are real and was bad in the war, but let's not pretend American troops haven't committed war crimes like my lai massacre as just one of many examples during the nam conflict, but everybody still thinks its cool to play as an American soldier shooting vietnamese in video games.
  • StarscreamUK
    7337 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    history is always remembered primarily from the side of the victors.
  • JUJAMAKILL
    331 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I find the growing push for P.Cness so ridiculous these days. It's as if people think that if we don't ever educate or talk about things like the atrocities that occurred throughout history, then they never actually happened. That it should somehow change our history. Just bury our heads in the sand. I get that the n*** party shouldn't be celebrated, of course not, but we can't act as if they never existed. All you do is push the blame onto the German people as a whole. Now when people want to know who was involved in WWII, it's no longer the far right fringe of the evil n*** regime, it was... Zee Germans. Sure they were predominately German, but their ideology wasn't shared by ALL the good people of that country, many of whom were forced to display similar attitudes in fear of execution. So which people are reflected upon as the 'bad' people responsible for that war now? 

    Hell, we can't even talk about the topic without world wide censorship, let alone that laws exist in countries that explicitly forbid it.
    (FWIW my wife and her family are of German heritage, so I certainly mean no disrespect in any way with this statement.)

    EA/DICE can do what they like with their game. They can play by their own rules.. But I just think it is absurd that a game based on WWII, which was started by a specific faction can not allow imagery from that time period, regardless of whether it is factually correct or not. 

    Whether or not the depiction of n***'s, swastikas or the Freakin' Phantom of the Opera, should be in a game depicting WWII reminds me of a song I once heard...

    One of these things just doesn't belong here...
    One of these things ain't quite the same....
    One of these things just doesn't belong here...
    Can you guess before my song is done?
    And now my song is done.
  • SlowOldWarrior
    460 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Ploodovic said:
    StarscreamUK said:
    the name is being changed, drama over.

    Do you honestly believe that?  So all it will take to make this whole better is to change the name of the guy with the flamboyant face patch to "Helmut Willie"?

    No such luck bucko - "I Don't think that Gurkha knives should be in the game because of imperialist symbolism", what new name should we pick for the knife?

    Please expand your point, because I don’t follow the logic. You’re quoting someone who’s talking about the kukri? But “Kukri” is literally the weapon’s name, why use something else?
    Colonialism is bad, and the kukri is the knife of the oppressed Gurkha mercenary, who were utilized by the Brittish army to oppress others for UK imperial gain.  My point being that when people are constantly looking for reasons to be offended, they will find them - whichever side of history you claim to be on.
  • Stahlmach
    1156 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    history is always remembered primarily from the side of the victors.
    Wrong. Take for instance WW1. It changed from blaming Germany towards " the War who had many fathers " over the course of Historical research. And there are various other examples.
  • CHAMMOND1992
    1251 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 13
    Oh, that's because of your usual censorship you meet in this place.
    Here's the full article text.

    Turning a war against fascism that occurred within living memory and resulted in the deaths of more than 70 million people into a mass-market entertainment product is inevitably going to be an undertaking fraught with risk. It's easier in single-player games—N*** are bad and you do interesting things to them with hatchets—but how do you handle a multiplayer experience where one side has to portray literal N***? It's a situation that can bite you in the **** in all sorts of unexpected ways. 

    Case in point, a recently-revealed Battlefield 5 Elite character named Wilhelm Franke. He is very N*** as portrayed in his promo trailer, kind of like a cross between Hans Landa and the Red Skull, although he studiously avoids wearing a swastika because that would be awkward. But what's really awkward for EA, as noted by Vice, is that Wilhelm Franke is the name of an actual member of the anti-fascist resistance in Germany before and during the Second World War. He was arrested at least twice for his activities, according to Wikipedia (Google translated), before he and his family were killed in the Dresden firebombings. 

    "We’ve become aware that one of the names of our Elites, Wilhelm Franke, shares the name of a real life resistance member in Germany during the Second World War," Electronic Arts said in a statement. "We want to apologize as we certainly didn’t mean any disrespect to him. We are in the process now of changing the name of our Elite in the game." 

    But EA also insisted that Franke, despite being a high-ranking officer in the N*** war machine who stops all the action around him so he can watch an enemy soldier die slowly, is not actually a N*** at all, but just a regular ol' German soldier, like all the other regular, totally non-N*** German soldiers in the game. "In Battlefield 5, we're not making any political statements in relation to the real life events of WW2 and there are no swastikas in the game," it said. 

    That's an astonishing thing to say. Obviously there were plenty of "regular guy" German soldiers who fought in the war but this isn't Karl from Platoon B who got conscripted when things went sideways in Italy that we're talking about. The soon-to-be-former Wilhelm Franke is very clearly portrayed in the video as a stereotypical, through-and-through N*** villain—cold, haughty, murderous, impeccably dressed by Hugo Boss—and leaving the swastika off his sleeve doesn't change that. You can debate the merits of using N*** as videogame villains (and this is a perfect example of why, if you're going to do it, you need to do your homework first), but pretending that they're not actually N*** at all is ridiculous and, frankly, embarrassing. 

    VICE lol. vice survives only by looking to find everything that can somehow be interpreted as not politically correct and get offended over it, click-baiting people into reading their articles about celebrities full of false claims and defamation attempts. 
    its very much understandable that EA doesnt want to associate with any political statements regarding ww2 as its pretty much immediately implying bad publicity.
    now in recent years pretty much every non-documentary movie or story of any form that was published related to ww2 portrayed "strong" or "powerfull" german soldiers as inherently "bad". they are always the bad guys, which is reasonable. however as such they come with traits such as cold blooded, calculating, relentless and hence this defined our view as to what the society relates to such a soldier. at the same time those traits were directly connected to **** (most of the time even defined through the very same figures that happen to be "strong" german soldiers and **** at the same time) as well. there is a direct two sided implication between traits of strong ww2 germans and ****. as such i don't see how you can create a "classical" or in this sense "authentic" **** german ww2 soldier that doesnt share these traits with ****. hence the critique the article mentions about clearly portraying the elites as **** and indirectly implying that this was by choice is invalid imo. of course one could introduce more generic elites such as the allied sniper woman that got introduced along with willhelm. however considering that our definition of a ww2 german soldier is so much more refined than the one of any other ww2 solider would make an introduction of such a generic german elite even less authentic then its introduction as an allied elite. 

    now given the choice to introduce such a character there are only two different outcomes: if they call him a **** people are getting offended because one can play a proper **** in bfv that is also portrayed to be ****, which is positive in some way which in turn is unacceptable for a **** to some. if they don't call him a **** then there will be articles like this one claiming that they "lie" about his identity.

    now i do understand the critique in terms of the name choice. arguably this name choice was one of the worst possible :joy:
    however i think that this naming mistake just gave rise to another issue that was already there before, namely the way german elites are portrayed in the first place. 
    Funny because VICE used to be REALLY good when it came to documentaries. When they started their news business it became trash.
  • Broliszibaila
    302 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I am offended, that so many people get triggered by stuff like this...

    They could have put swastikas and all in the game for my sake!

    It is a game!

    And it depicts something that relly happened..

    Its only a game...Well, you got really short vision. Do you know for what category the games belongs? To the mass media and this tool is very powerful to change history and facts....And guess - who else used mass media to change history and facts? Brown and red dogs.

    So, today the game industry trying to change history and facts and the DICE is in the same train. Always finds the way how to make joke from facts or insult real people and events. ITS JUST PATHETIC.

    Also, im really hate these double standarts that communists and socialists arent banned, like brown dogs. While these communists killed much more people! These red dogs should be banned too.

    In my country, you can easily get jailed for any small thing or symbol of Soviet Union, while in the Western Europe you can buy t-shirts with soviet union symbol and walk in the streets and nobody going even care.

    And here is one more scary fact: Every year in the Estonia, Valga city - people form Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia makes military parade at the center of the city to honor soldiers who served in the german army and this whole parade happens with WW2 uniforms and drums. I cant imagine these things in western Europe. Now you can start banning whole Baltic states.

    So, im going to wait for more stupid mistakes form DICE. Because, looks like they have no idea how to stop making these mistakes. Atleast - they are educated.


  • StarscreamUK
    7337 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    Stahlmach wrote: »
    StarscreamUK said:
    history is always remembered primarily from the side of the victors.

    Wrong. Take for instance WW1. It changed from blaming Germany towards " the War who had many fathers " over the course of Historical research. And there are various other examples.

    You see where I say primarily. Because there are always exceptions.
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