Disable network smoothing for low ping player

THERAMPAGE_ci0h
116 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
edited June 9
& bring back the server validation for hit registration.
Punishment ( lag added ) for having good connection is not a solution
Low ping should have an advantage over high ping.
No more to add. 
Post edited by THERAMPAGE_ci0h on

Comments

  • NLBartmaN
    3040 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    You mean compensation for HIGH ping (above 60ms) players?

    Or add a ping limit of 60 to 70ms or Region lock on servers?
  • THERAMPAGE_ci0h
    116 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 9
    No there is a ''forced" lag compensation when you are a low ping player ( it makes you lag for balance with high ping player ) , you have an option to disable it since BF4 but not in BFV ->  60-90 ping player are really advantaged with this system because they are not much compensated -> They can outgun you in a gunfight even if you have the first shot / was aiming for the head. 

    TOTALY UNFAIR

     I recall a discussion from a Respawn dev (I think it was on a r/games thread a while back?) about how a lot of the netcode decisions they made for the Titanfall games came as a result of wanting to maximize the potential playerbase with the internet infrastructure they knew was commonplace from the public tests they had done. I think a similar sort of reasoning is why all the major FPS/BR games have pretty low tickrates to help keep the amount of bandwidth being communicated low enough for the average person's connection even with 70+ player matches.

    DICE presumably has the same kind of data thanks to the public tests before release, and them focusing on trying to change TTK first is a probable indicative that they don't think they can fix the TTD issue in a way that wouldn't lock out existing or potential players from being able to play the game with their connections. 

    You can also thanks the PC based "influencer" who have ruined the game for console: ULTRAFAST TTK + Visibility issue ( blurry game / no 3D spot on console ) + POOR netcode since BF4 + 30Hz servers on console + cheated aim assist + High HS damage multiplier + Broken audio mix + the unablity to turn off the LAG COMPENSATION = GARBAGE CONSOLE GAME 

    EA preferes that 1000 player buy the game and left it than 100 who will buy and stay on it for its network performance breakthrough. They can do it, they just don't want to do it... 

    QUANTITY OVER QUALITY, MONEY ABOVE ANYTHING ... 

    Post edited by THERAMPAGE_ci0h on
  • NLBartmaN
    3040 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Never heard of that, only the other way around.

    And I would not call it compensation, more lag addition/punishment.

    They should remove any form of "compensation" and just add ping limits.

    Make servers with all pings (so friends that don't care about good performance can play together), 0-60ms, 70-130ms and 130ms and higher limits and lots of issues are gone.

  • SirSpectacle
    750 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    @THERAMPAGE_ci0h do you have any proof that such a feature exists?
  • idk1233211
    632 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    @THERAMPAGE_ci0h do you have any proof that such a feature exists?


    dont need proof when dealing with ea.
  • DOX_aus
    35 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I think the OP is confusing this with animation 'interpolation' where there is a small buffer between what you see to smooth out animation between server updates so you see less jitter/warping and can predict movement better.. its the same for everyone tho. In bf4 you could reduce it somewhat i recall.
  • THERAMPAGE_ci0h
    116 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 9
    @SirSpectacle technically this option remove lag compensation for low ping player ( when you deactivate it:  what you are seeing while playing is what the information actualy are for the client side, you have an input lag based on your ping -> if you are at cover you can't die because the server will block incoming damage ) , in BFV there is 533ms ( YES YOU'VE READ THIS CORRECTLY, MORE THAN HALF A SECOND)  lag on console with the 30hz console's server / 17 ping  ... 
    Post edited by THERAMPAGE_ci0h on
  • OskooI_007
    646 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 9
    There is no lag compensation. There's the extrapolation offset buffer, which has to do with smoothing out player movement.

    Enabling the 'low ping network smoothing' option actually INCREASES the extrapolation offset buffer. Thus putting you at a disadvantage because player movement updates are being delayed even longer. (Feature only works on sub 50ms ping connections)

    Then there's the client-side hit registration. Which also has a ping limit, but I'm not sure what that is in BFV, but it's 160ms in BF1.

    So I guess when someone mentions 'lag compensation' they're either talking about client-side hit registration, or the extrapolation buffer for player movement.

    Either way, nothing is getting delayed due to having a low ping. A low ping allows your shots and player movement updates to reach the server faster than a high ping player. If a low ping player and a high ping player pulls the trigger at the same time, the low pinger will start dealing damage first.

    You'll still get hit behind cover though, because it takes a while for high ping players to receive those movement updates from the server.
  • IDirtY_SeCreT
    529 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
  • DJTN1
    306 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    OskooI_007 wrote: »
    There is no lag compensation. There's the extrapolation offset buffer, which has to do with smoothing out player movement.

    Enabling the 'low ping network smoothing' option actually INCREASES the extrapolation offset buffer. Thus putting you at a disadvantage because player movement updates are being delayed even longer. (Feature only works on sub 50ms ping connections)

    Then there's the client-side hit registration. Which also has a ping limit, but I'm not sure what that is in BFV, but it's 160ms in BF1.

    So I guess when someone mentions 'lag compensation' they're either talking about client-side hit registration, or the extrapolation buffer for player movement.

    Either way, nothing is getting delayed due to having a low ping. A low ping allows your shots and player movement updates to reach the server faster than a high ping player. If a low ping player and a high ping player pulls the trigger at the same time, the low pinger will start dealing damage first.

    You'll still get hit behind cover though, because it takes a while for high ping players to receive those movement updates from the server.


    I understand what you're saying, to some degree, but common sense tells me that the player in the middle of the ping disparity amongst all the players in the match will have the best gaming experience. I'm referring to hit detection and client / server sync.

    I'm assuming that the game takes all the pings and calculates an average for update calculations and that would include bullet collision. They want everyone in the match to have the best experience regardless of their ping.

    Scientifically speaking, you cannot speed up someone's connection but you can delay or slow down updates to a fast connection. I think this is what irritates people and why they think they're being penalized for a low ping.

    Correct me if I'm wrong.
  • THERAMPAGE_ci0h
    116 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    @OldSkoolzFinest ok but tell me why this situation occure in BF1 while turning on low ping smoothing and disapear when turning it off ( i've never die at cover since two year on BF1 since i've deactivate this option )  ? 


    The answer is simple: Poor netcode + client based hit registration and no more server block if it has been validate by the client -> lead you to die at cover / in one frame sometime/ being killed by a guy who just die or you just kill / lead to a mutual kill.


    On BFV ( 30 FPS PS4 FAT/30HZ SERVER/ 17 PING ) damage taken start appear 13 - 23 frame ( HALF A SECOND ) after being at cover and you die at cover ...  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tdo0T5QS6eA



    PS: Fast TTK is the cause of all of this  ( it's a secret nobody want to hear ) 
  • TFBisquit
    1321 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    It was already a problem in BF3, but playing on faster dedicated servers made it less obvious. Plus server admins using a ping limit.
    You wont notice much if everyone sits between 15 and 40ms.
    Couple of weeks back my isp had some problems and I pinged 35ms the entire evening. Game was actually a bit slower, and more accurate. Shots landed and it all felt much better.
    I'm usually below 20ms.
  • parkingbrake
    3202 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    NLBartmaN said:
    You mean compensation for HIGH ping (above 60ms) players?

    Or add a ping limit of 60 to 70ms or Region lock on servers?
    A ping limit of 60-70ms would be too low even for many players who stay in their region.  I get 65ms to the eastern NA server location where most of the servers are, I get 25ms to the western server location but there are rarely more than a few servers up at one time.  If I was okay to play previous BF titles on eastern servers I don't see why I should be locked out now.

    I used to kick players over 100ms, that seemed to keep the server running nice and smooth.
  • Hawxxeye
    5174 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Some people do not get that very low ping is not always an option to people.
    For me who plays from Greece with what is considered a good connection (VDSL) the 57ms is the best I can get on good days on German servers. It is more often at 67ms on average through no choice of my own.
  • G-Gnu
    1383 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye said:
    Some people do not get that very low ping is not always an option to people.
    For me who plays from Greece with what is considered a good connection (VDSL) the 57ms is the best I can get on good days on German servers. It is more often at 67ms on average through no choice of my own.
    Anything below 90 ms should not be a problem, though if you have an unstable connection (latency variation) both you and the rest on the server will start to have a bad time unfortunately. 
  • Trokey66
    8168 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Anecdotally for me at least the bigger the difference between high and low pings, the worse the server gets.
  • Hawxxeye
    5174 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    G-Gnu said:
    Hawxxeye said:
    Some people do not get that very low ping is not always an option to people.
    For me who plays from Greece with what is considered a good connection (VDSL) the 57ms is the best I can get on good days on German servers. It is more often at 67ms on average through no choice of my own.
    Anything below 90 ms should not be a problem, though if you have an unstable connection (latency variation) both you and the rest on the server will start to have a bad time unfortunately. 
    I have been both on the sending and the receiving end of cases where I either kill someone who is shooting at me visibly (I think) and I kill him without taking damage or dying in a firefight where I did not scored hit-markers on a guy I am obviously hitting him but he kills me
  • ninjapenquinuk
    1761 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    If EA/DICE put a proper ping limit on players they'd have to increase their server infrastructure around the world so that everyone they sell the game to can play. They arent going to do that.
  • NLBartmaN
    3040 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    NLBartmaN said:
    You mean compensation for HIGH ping (above 60ms) players?

    Or add a ping limit of 60 to 70ms or Region lock on servers?
    A ping limit of 60-70ms would be too low even for many players who stay in their region.  I get 65ms to the eastern NA server location where most of the servers are, I get 25ms to the western server location but there are rarely more than a few servers up at one time.  If I was okay to play previous BF titles on eastern servers I don't see why I should be locked out now.

    I used to kick players over 100ms, that seemed to keep the server running nice and smooth.
    Like calculated by RevOverDrive, a specialist on this subject: a difference of 60ms is the max for good performance of servers and fun and fair play.

    There are lots of players with ping below 10ms (like me), so the max can be around 70ms.

    My idea, like said before, would be:

    Servers with ping limits of 0-60 to 70ms (probably 98% of EU players, OOR players are killing the EU servers), servers with ping limits of 60-120ms and 130ms and above.

    Add some servers without ping limits so friends from different regions (that don't care about performance) can play together and all is good.

    There was a map on this forum that showed that players from north Africa and north Asia are also linked to EU servers, because of no AWS servers in those Region, which is ridiculous.

    Dice/EA just needs to contract and use a different server provider in those areas.
  • Hawxxeye
    5174 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    If EA/DICE put a proper ping limit on players they'd have to increase their server infrastructure around the world so that everyone they sell the game to can play. They arent going to do that.
    they would actually have to make national servers
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