This Week in Battlefield V

Stop trying to hold everyones hand

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CptDuffy
122 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
It’s fairly simple. The original TTK TTD was hard gritty and spot on. You diced ..... sorry I mean decided to hold everyone’s hand so you could make it a safe place for new comers.

............. new comers are great but they don’t come to an FPS for a safe place this should not be what you’re about. Initially BFV was deadly and I thought brilliant. I struggled to get a hold of it but once I’d put in the time and got a hold of it wow you had something.

Now you’ve pandered to the *cry* of gamers.

For Christ sake pls in the next bf, fix the NetCode, make it deadly and look after your core gamer base that you’ve slowly alienated and maybe watch this for tips.

Comments

  • Juanicee
    19 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    The game can't have a faster TTK with the current state of netcode. I get one shoot killed all the time and my connection is pretty good.
  • sabootheshaman
    1111 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 19
    I remember when I was young papa would hold my hand. Now papa is dead.

    Papa, papa.... papa 😢

    In all seriousness I like the TTK and don’t have many 1 France deaths lately. So I’m cool with where it is, but that’s me.

    I do wonder whether it’s worse for people in certain regions, which it appears to be. I’m on fibre in a major Australian capital in the heart of the CBD. So yeah. I’m spoilt.
  • NLBartmaN
    3304 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    It is simple: there are things you want and sound/look good and you have the limitations of the hardware, code, money and infrastructure.

    What you want and Dice thought was a good idea does NOT match with the limitations.

    And that is why we have a very buggy, frustrating, annoying and low performance game on console.
  • Ferdinand_J_Foch
    3382 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    It's funny that the OP mentioned Insurgency Sandstorm, a game that has been criticised by INS fans for moderately increasing the TTK from INS 2 to INS:S. For goodness' sake, the Mosin Nagant in INS:S can be up to a three bullet kill.

    A lot of is down to the fact that armour piercing rounds have been removed in INS:S, whereas heavy armour is still available. These two things used to counter each other in previous games, which did lead to some interesting tactics. A lot of people used the FAL/L1A1 with armour piercing rounds, which made the weapon a OHK from the chest and up on any target. This would lead to some people eschewing armour in favour of more equipment. Some people would go even further by removing armour and most equipment, and using just a pistol to move as fast as possible. 

    In INS:S, the heavy armour is an even more powerful meta. Now, there's no reason NOT to use it ... hell, the movement penalties from equipping armour is pretty much gone in this iteration.

    All of this doesn't really matter though, because Battlefield and Insurgency are two completely different franchises. A lot of people would be up in arms if they forced an INS style game on the Battlefield community, and vice versa, which is funny, because I've heard a lot of INS veterans complaining that they're making INS a lot like Battlefield ... the maps are bigger, the TTK is higher, there are artillery strikes (though this is probably from DoI), you can call in helicopters, you can drive technicals ... there are even some people saying that the inclusion of Kurdish women in the game is a direct result of the BFV reveal trailer ...
  • CHAMMOND1992
    1129 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I agree. Problem is good players find enjoyment because of their high aptitude for the game. They are much more flexible than average casuals in terms of what kinds of Battlefield games they can enjoy. You can lose way more players making a less forgiving game than you would making a more forgiving game. I already know the next game won't have a TTK quite like this, and it will probably never return( only in hardcore probably). Because well, casuals.
  • NLBartmaN
    3304 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I agree. Problem is good players find enjoyment because of their high aptitude for the game. They are much more flexible than average casuals in terms of what kinds of Battlefield games they can enjoy. You can lose way more players making a less forgiving game than you would making a more forgiving game. I already know the next game won't have a TTK quite like this, and it will probably never return( only in hardcore probably). Because well, casuals.
    It keeps on being funny that some people keep on saying a faster low TTK is for the "good" players ...

    It never comes to their mind it maybe is boring like crazy and promotes camping and not being on the objective, just making easy (spawn) kills.

    Shooting people before they can even react and not having shoot outs is boring like crazy.

    And next to that everything has to be perfect for low TTK to work (like mentioned: all the hardware, infrastructure, ping limits, etc) and not everything is perfect.

    I think THAT is the reason the majority of players (not just casuals) prefer a higher TTK.
  • CHAMMOND1992
    1129 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    "It keeps on being funny that some people keep on saying a faster low TTK is for the "good" players ..."

    DICE already alluded to this issue back when they horribly implemented the TTK change.

    " It never comes to their mind it maybe is boring like crazy and promotes camping and not being on the objective, just making easy (spawn) kills."

    You've already proved my point if you think a low TTK facilitates more camping. Bad players don't know how to move, don't understand enemy team movement, thus they stay still and lie in wait.

    "Shooting people before they can even react and not having shoot outs is boring like crazy."

    Is this said from the perspective of a person who mostly gets shot at or a person mostly doing the shooting? Because I don't remember any BF game that I have played in which I had the drop on someone and they were able to recover without me missing shots. 

    "And next to that everything has to be perfect for low TTK to work (like mentioned: all the hardware, infrastructure, ping limits, etc) and not everything is perfect."

     I honestly have no clue why you think this TTK is new territory when BF3 TTK was very similar which I had no issues.
  • NLBartmaN
    3304 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    "It keeps on being funny that some people keep on saying a faster low TTK is for the "good" players ..."

    DICE already alluded to this issue back when they horribly implemented the TTK change.

    " It never comes to their mind it maybe is boring like crazy and promotes camping and not being on the objective, just making easy (spawn) kills."

    You've already proved my point if you think a low TTK facilitates more camping. Bad players don't know how to move, don't understand enemy team movement, thus they stay still and lie in wait.

    "Shooting people before they can even react and not having shoot outs is boring like crazy."

    Is this said from the perspective of a person who mostly gets shot at or a person mostly doing the shooting? Because I don't remember any BF game that I have played in which I had the drop on someone and they were able to recover without me missing shots. 

    "And next to that everything has to be perfect for low TTK to work (like mentioned: all the hardware, infrastructure, ping limits, etc) and not everything is perfect."

     I honestly have no clue why you think this TTK is new territory when BF3 TTK was very similar which I had no issues.
    Endless discussion, for me low TTK is just a complete annoying experience that takes away every fun in a game and caters to camping not PTFO noobs that jsut make easy cheese spawnkills on players that do try to PTFO.

    And next to that it does not work with the limitations of consoles and the servers and lack of ping limit right now.

    The raise of TTK (best thing Dice did with BF V, too bad it was removed again) madethat totally clear, the game felt 10 times better.

    BF3 probably had more (rented) servers with ping limits on them, not a game that asks more from consoles than they can deliver and more overall balance, that is why it probably worked.
  • CptDuffy
    122 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 19
    NLBartmaN wrote: »
    CHAMMOND1992 said:
    I agree. Problem is good players find enjoyment because of their high aptitude for the game. They are much more flexible than average casuals in terms of what kinds of Battlefield games they can enjoy. You can lose way more players making a less forgiving game than you would making a more forgiving game. I already know the next game won't have a TTK quite like this, and it will probably never return( only in hardcore probably). Because well, casuals.

    It keeps on being funny that some people keep on saying a faster low TTK is for the "good" players ...

    It never comes to their mind it maybe is boring like crazy and promotes camping and not being on the objective, just making easy (spawn) kills.

    Shooting people before they can even react and not having shoot outs is boring like crazy.

    And next to that everything has to be perfect for low TTK to work (like mentioned: all the hardware, infrastructure, ping limits, etc) and not everything is perfect.

    I think THAT is the reason the majority of players (not just casuals) prefer a higher TTK.

    Ageeed !! Go back and play BF3 that was where it was at. NetCode was decent and the ttk was spot on and that’s what BFV felt like initially. The DMR’s in battlefield have always been 3 shot kills (as they should be) even in sponge bob BF1 (which I liked btw great game).
    But in order to appease the players that are casuals and haven’t been supporting this franchise from start to now they went and changed it. I thought it was too hardcore to begin with but just after the release they gave it that little tweak and hey presto bang on. They should have left it alone then but they’ve slowly butchered the game into something unrecognisable ttk wise compared to release.

    Stop holding players hands if they can’t stand up with the big boys with a high ttk you won’t be able to stand up to us with a low one.
  • Dank_Jeezus
    97 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 19
    This may sound snarky or hyper casual.

    But sacrificing the fun of the game so already good players could get 70 kills in bfv instead of 50 in bf1. Well, it just might be the worst decision dice ever made.

    I think the game was designed to farm infantry and people like DRUNKZ or whatever know this.

    There’s no other explanation for the lack of glint on 3x SAR’s.


    People that enjoy bfv play hide and seek pro moving between an objective or crate just feasting on people.

    The clutter makes if ridiculously easy to kill players who get stuck playing where’s Waldo looking for the person who originally killed them.


    This stupid meta has killed the heart and soul of conquest.
  • Trokey66
    8371 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    To use a common 'meme'......

    Welcome to Nichefield V
  • marcanthony421
    118 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Casuals are more common, that’s just a fact. No i dont think dice should hold anyone’s hand, get gud as the saying goes. I think dice should make a game for the core community and let what casuals decide whether they want the challenge or not. We were all casuals/noobs/whatever you want to call them at one point or another but we stuck with it. Dice, you arent fortnite, you’re not going to have millions of players because that’s just unrealistic. So instead of trying to emulate a game design approach nothing like what got you here, just keep on growing your core. Keep us happy and the casuals will stick. Look at R6, sure rough launch but that game is unforgiving, not saying that’s what battlefield should turn into, but just an example of a game being successful but not holding anyone’s hand.
  • DJTN1
    306 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Dice have really put themselves in a bad situation. If they increase the TTK they loose vets. If they decrease the TTK they loose casuals. They can't create a hardcore playlist to satisfy both because the player count is too low.

    This game was doomed from the start and I don't see it getting any better. The population is so bad now that there is always OOR players in every match I'm in, degrading the experience with horrendous input lag and out of sync game play. With Borderlands, Modern Warfare and other new games coming out, the player pool will continue to shrink. Even if they fixed all the bugs it wouldn't change the inevitable. BFV will never have the longevity of previous BF games. It tried to be too many things at once and forgot what makes Battlefield, "Battlefield".

  • RABID_4TUNA
    76 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    DJTN1 said:
    Dice have really put themselves in a bad situation. If they increase the TTK they loose vets. If they decrease the TTK they loose casuals. They can't create a hardcore playlist to satisfy both because the player count is too low.

    This game was doomed from the start and I don't see it getting any better. The population is so bad now that there is always OOR players in every match I'm in, degrading the experience with horrendous input lag and out of sync game play. With Borderlands, Modern Warfare and other new games coming out, the player pool will continue to shrink. Even if they fixed all the bugs it wouldn't change the inevitable. BFV will never have the longevity of previous BF games. It tried to be too many things at once and forgot what makes Battlefield, "Battlefield".

    Well...

    ... 's still better off than five other games released the same year.

    And they were all panned by critics, mind you.
  • IDirtY_SeCreT
    530 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    NLBartmaN said:
    I agree. Problem is good players find enjoyment because of their high aptitude for the game. They are much more flexible than average casuals in terms of what kinds of Battlefield games they can enjoy. You can lose way more players making a less forgiving game than you would making a more forgiving game. I already know the next game won't have a TTK quite like this, and it will probably never return( only in hardcore probably). Because well, casuals.
    It keeps on being funny that some people keep on saying a faster low TTK is for the "good" players ...

    It never comes to their mind it maybe is boring like crazy and promotes camping and not being on the objective, just making easy (spawn) kills.

    Shooting people before they can even react and not having shoot outs is boring like crazy.

    And next to that everything has to be perfect for low TTK to work (like mentioned: all the hardware, infrastructure, ping limits, etc) and not everything is perfect.

    I think THAT is the reason the majority of players (not just casuals) prefer a higher TTK.
    I'm a good player and playing with other good players. Neither me or any of them finds a low TTK better. But there are people which think hardcore requires more skill as does a low TTK. That's why there was Vanilla and Hardcore up until BFH to give everyone the chance to play the mode he liked.
    BTW BF3 TTK might be about the same but somehow it didn't feel as bad as BFV maybe cause the netcode wasn't as ****.

    CptDuffy said:

    Ageeed !! Go back and play BF3 that was where it was at. NetCode was decent and the ttk was spot on and that’s what BFV felt like initially. The DMR’s in battlefield have always been 3 shot kills (as they should be) even in sponge bob BF1 (which I liked btw great game).
    But in order to appease the players that are casuals and haven’t been supporting this franchise from start to now they went and changed it. I thought it was too hardcore to begin with but just after the release they gave it that little tweak and hey presto bang on. They should have left it alone then but they’ve slowly butchered the game into something unrecognisable ttk wise compared to release.

    Stop holding players hands if they can’t stand up with the big boys with a high ttk you won’t be able to stand up to us with a low one.

    Arrogance... But hey you're better than everyone right?
  • CHAMMOND1992
    1129 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    NLBartmaN said:
    "It keeps on being funny that some people keep on saying a faster low TTK is for the "good" players ..."

    DICE already alluded to this issue back when they horribly implemented the TTK change.

    " It never comes to their mind it maybe is boring like crazy and promotes camping and not being on the objective, just making easy (spawn) kills."

    You've already proved my point if you think a low TTK facilitates more camping. Bad players don't know how to move, don't understand enemy team movement, thus they stay still and lie in wait.

    "Shooting people before they can even react and not having shoot outs is boring like crazy."

    Is this said from the perspective of a person who mostly gets shot at or a person mostly doing the shooting? Because I don't remember any BF game that I have played in which I had the drop on someone and they were able to recover without me missing shots. 

    "And next to that everything has to be perfect for low TTK to work (like mentioned: all the hardware, infrastructure, ping limits, etc) and not everything is perfect."

     I honestly have no clue why you think this TTK is new territory when BF3 TTK was very similar which I had no issues.
    Endless discussion, for me low TTK is just a complete annoying experience that takes away every fun in a game and caters to camping not PTFO noobs that jsut make easy cheese spawnkills on players that do try to PTFO.

    And next to that it does not work with the limitations of consoles and the servers and lack of ping limit right now.

    The raise of TTK (best thing Dice did with BF V, too bad it was removed again) madethat totally clear, the game felt 10 times better.

    BF3 probably had more (rented) servers with ping limits on them, not a game that asks more from consoles than they can deliver and more overall balance, that is why it probably worked.
    I don't think you have any expert , or inside information in regards to netcode issues in BFV.

    Raising the TTK didn't make anything 10x better, (it did make SMG's that much worse). I remember complaining about them raising it, then I played a few games and it was really just business as usual.
  • SirTerrible
    1703 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    What original TTK/TTD? It's also false that a quicker TTK/TTD is inherently better for seasoned players. Make the time to kill too quick and the majority of players won't find it fun, both newcomers and vets.
  • xXHamatoYoshiXx
    198 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    What original TTK/TTD? It's also false that a quicker TTK/TTD is inherently better for seasoned players. Make the time to kill too quick and the majority of players won't find it fun, both newcomers and vets.
    Speak for yourself, it takes wayyy too long to kill someone. I'm sorry but the current TTK is crap. TTD sucks because often you die in one frame, this is probably due to bad netcode however.
  • SirTerrible
    1703 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    What original TTK/TTD? It's also false that a quicker TTK/TTD is inherently better for seasoned players. Make the time to kill too quick and the majority of players won't find it fun, both newcomers and vets.
    Speak for yourself, it takes wayyy too long to kill someone. I'm sorry but the current TTK is crap. TTD sucks because often you die in one frame, this is probably due to bad netcode however.
    If you're finding it takes too long to drop someone I'm guessing there's some user error going on. Making the TTK quicker will just make people camp even more since everyone is so afraid of dying. It'd very likely make the game even slower. I believe most people would find that unfun.
  • xXHamatoYoshiXx
    198 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    What original TTK/TTD? It's also false that a quicker TTK/TTD is inherently better for seasoned players. Make the time to kill too quick and the majority of players won't find it fun, both newcomers and vets.
    Speak for yourself, it takes wayyy too long to kill someone. I'm sorry but the current TTK is crap. TTD sucks because often you die in one frame, this is probably due to bad netcode however.
    If you're finding it takes too long to drop someone I'm guessing there's some user error going on. Making the TTK quicker will just make people camp even more since everyone is so afraid of dying. It'd very likely make the game even slower. I believe most people would find that unfun.
    Sounds to me like you didn't play too much hardcore. I'm sorry I don't believe in someone being able to take multiple shots to the face and not die. And as I've stated in other posts, if someone that's camping gets more than 3 kills on you, then you are doing something wrong. Besides, how hard is it really to take a second to look around at your exposed side from cover to see a brightly glowing flashlight looking at you? On top of that, infantry based games tend to have smaller maps, so it would be fairly difficult to just sit in one spot and camp the whole game, and for other game modes like conquest a team of campers is just going to end up losing the match because no one is capping flags. Simply put, if I wanted to be Master Chief and run and gun without thinking about my position, then I'd go play Halo or COD. 
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