"It's time to end the MMG bipod meta" said Westie

Comments

  • YUKnowWhatItIz
    342 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 said:
    bran1986 said:


    YUKnowWhatItIz wrote: »
    It's crazy how people say this is just a game.



    Battlefield developers have always put a little bit of realism in their game. Maybe you should play something else. 



    Realism in a BF game? You are kidding right?
    Uh, yeah? Of all the console shooters, yes. It's not a full blown sim like Arma, but there are small realistic aspects. Destruction, Bullet physics, etc.

    Are you saying Battlefield V is just like COD with vehicles?

    In a game series you could eject out of a jet, pull a RPG out of your ****, blow up another jet and land back in your jet and fly off? There is nothing realistic about BF even the destruction and bullet physics. It is an arcade shooter where fun and balance should come before any kind of " real life" equivalence.
    So you're saying Battlefield is basically like COD with vehicles correct? 
  • YUKnowWhatItIz
    342 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 said:
    warslag wrote: »
    YUKnowWhatItIz said:

    warslag said:

    JamieCurnock said:


    warslag wrote: »
    @JamieCurnock 



    Bipods should not be in Battlefield at all. They are an awful gimmick.



    Really? A gimmick? It's not like they made up some weird game mechanic that doesn't exist in real life, it's an actual thing. Bipods are real. Why are they a gimmick?
    Because I believe bipods were one of those things that was put in Battlefield because players kept going on and on about it, particularly how it exists in real life (yawn). So they put it in the game as gimmick to keep those players happy. Which really is exactly why Westie is talking about it in the video. It's a gimmick that shouldn't be in the game because it's just too powerful. Going prone should make guns more accurate but adding a bipod is a gimmick and I think it's part of selling Battlefield. It's the exact same reason there going to be putting maps into BFV that have chokepoints. They know players want it and they like spamming there bipod LMG/MMGs. Movement should be king and using a bipod should be very, very weak to the point of being pointless which means it shouldn't be in the game in the first place. No doubt you'll ignore all that and just go "nah, I want a bipod cus I wanna bipod and if I don't get it we'll have a mass tantrum on the forums".

    Battlefield is supposed to be a balance between Arcade and Realism. Bipods are apart of that.

    Support Machine guns aren't exactly light weight and they're accuracy is nowhere near that of Sub Machine guns or Rifles. What do you suggest? Make them as accurate as a sub machine gun? Because without Bipods they're pretty worthless. 

    If anything you are the angry one because you and your friends can't run around like it's a mindless twitch shooter. I've killed groups of 3 and 4 people with my bipods, oh well, that's what happens when you rush. I'm sorry for killing you and your 4 buddies, but maybe you should slow it down and think. 

    You infer that it's mindless to run around, but how much more mindless is it then to play the game prone with a bipod? I and others have explained how it's the boost to a weapon's stat that make bipods too powerful and because they are powerful it alters the way players behave i.e they prone a lot and then maps are designed to cater to there prone with bipod behaviour.

    A good compromise would be to keep bipods but remove the stats so that players only received a universal boot to weapon stats for being prone.

    I see some players say they were soldiers and hoe Battlefield gets a lot of military things wrong. The thing with that is that soldiers are generally not experts on games. Military and games are two separate subjects. The ARMA series is your best bet if you want a game with pretentions to realism.

    Nailed it. A weapon that fires 1200 rpm shouldn't have a 4-5 btk out to 50 meters. The way bipods work turns these weapons into 1200 rpm lasers that kills you in the blink of an eye.
    The fact that you think you should be able to simply out run something like M60 rounds at 50 meters is hilarious. 
  • PATTERSON_US
    38 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member


    do you agree? disagree? 

    I myself am mixed, the bipod MMG lockdown is easily countered in an open field, but when a camper lockdowns a corner as he crouches in rubble, it's really obnoxious to deal with.

    even though MMG's are balanced, and I myself would much rather use LMG's like the Bren, they are not fun to play against, not particularly fun to play with unless you have a camping fetish.

    I say, let's leave the damage it as it is but reduce the velocity of most MMG's to allow reaction in tight corners more feasable, you don't always have grenades to deal with those spots...

    I am one of them 😬, camping with my MG.
  • bran1986
    5913 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 said:


    warslag wrote: »
    YUKnowWhatItIz said:



    warslag said:



    JamieCurnock said:





    warslag wrote: »

    @JamieCurnock 







    Bipods should not be in Battlefield at all. They are an awful gimmick.







    Really? A gimmick? It's not like they made up some weird game mechanic that doesn't exist in real life, it's an actual thing. Bipods are real. Why are they a gimmick?

    Because I believe bipods were one of those things that was put in Battlefield because players kept going on and on about it, particularly how it exists in real life (yawn). So they put it in the game as gimmick to keep those players happy. Which really is exactly why Westie is talking about it in the video. It's a gimmick that shouldn't be in the game because it's just too powerful. Going prone should make guns more accurate but adding a bipod is a gimmick and I think it's part of selling Battlefield. It's the exact same reason there going to be putting maps into BFV that have chokepoints. They know players want it and they like spamming there bipod LMG/MMGs. Movement should be king and using a bipod should be very, very weak to the point of being pointless which means it shouldn't be in the game in the first place. No doubt you'll ignore all that and just go "nah, I want a bipod cus I wanna bipod and if I don't get it we'll have a mass tantrum on the forums".



    Battlefield is supposed to be a balance between Arcade and Realism. Bipods are apart of that.



    Support Machine guns aren't exactly light weight and they're accuracy is nowhere near that of Sub Machine guns or Rifles. What do you suggest? Make them as accurate as a sub machine gun? Because without Bipods they're pretty worthless. 



    If anything you are the angry one because you and your friends can't run around like it's a mindless twitch shooter. I've killed groups of 3 and 4 people with my bipods, oh well, that's what happens when you rush. I'm sorry for killing you and your 4 buddies, but maybe you should slow it down and think. 



    You infer that it's mindless to run around, but how much more mindless is it then to play the game prone with a bipod? I and others have explained how it's the boost to a weapon's stat that make bipods too powerful and because they are powerful it alters the way players behave i.e they prone a lot and then maps are designed to cater to there prone with bipod behaviour.



    A good compromise would be to keep bipods but remove the stats so that players only received a universal boot to weapon stats for being prone.



    I see some players say they were soldiers and hoe Battlefield gets a lot of military things wrong. The thing with that is that soldiers are generally not experts on games. Military and games are two separate subjects. The ARMA series is your best bet if you want a game with pretentions to realism.



    Nailed it. A weapon that fires 1200 rpm shouldn't have a 4-5 btk out to 50 meters. The way bipods work turns these weapons into 1200 rpm lasers that kills you in the blink of an eye.
    The fact that you think you should be able to simply out run something like M60 rounds at 50 meters is hilarious. 

    It is a video game.....do you think it is normal for a soldier to get hit with a 4,000 pound bomb and still remain intact, and can come back to life with simple needle prick? Or how a .45 round to the head at point blank range yet you can still fully function. Even better having the ability to break dance and spin in circles while bipodding a MG42 off your nuts. You thinking there is some deeper realism to Battlefield versus other arcade shooters is freaking hilarious and completely grasping at straws.
  • bran1986
    5913 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 2019
    bran1986 wrote: »
    bran1986 said:


    warslag wrote: »
    YUKnowWhatItIz said:



    warslag said:



    JamieCurnock said:





    warslag wrote: »

    @JamieCurnock 







    Bipods should not be in Battlefield at all. They are an awful gimmick.







    Really? A gimmick? It's not like they made up some weird game mechanic that doesn't exist in real life, it's an actual thing. Bipods are real. Why are they a gimmick?

    Because I believe bipods were one of those things that was put in Battlefield because players kept going on and on about it, particularly how it exists in real life (yawn). So they put it in the game as gimmick to keep those players happy. Which really is exactly why Westie is talking about it in the video. It's a gimmick that shouldn't be in the game because it's just too powerful. Going prone should make guns more accurate but adding a bipod is a gimmick and I think it's part of selling Battlefield. It's the exact same reason there going to be putting maps into BFV that have chokepoints. They know players want it and they like spamming there bipod LMG/MMGs. Movement should be king and using a bipod should be very, very weak to the point of being pointless which means it shouldn't be in the game in the first place. No doubt you'll ignore all that and just go "nah, I want a bipod cus I wanna bipod and if I don't get it we'll have a mass tantrum on the forums".



    Battlefield is supposed to be a balance between Arcade and Realism. Bipods are apart of that.



    Support Machine guns aren't exactly light weight and they're accuracy is nowhere near that of Sub Machine guns or Rifles. What do you suggest? Make them as accurate as a sub machine gun? Because without Bipods they're pretty worthless. 



    If anything you are the angry one because you and your friends can't run around like it's a mindless twitch shooter. I've killed groups of 3 and 4 people with my bipods, oh well, that's what happens when you rush. I'm sorry for killing you and your 4 buddies, but maybe you should slow it down and think. 



    You infer that it's mindless to run around, but how much more mindless is it then to play the game prone with a bipod? I and others have explained how it's the boost to a weapon's stat that make bipods too powerful and because they are powerful it alters the way players behave i.e they prone a lot and then maps are designed to cater to there prone with bipod behaviour.



    A good compromise would be to keep bipods but remove the stats so that players only received a universal boot to weapon stats for being prone.



    I see some players say they were soldiers and hoe Battlefield gets a lot of military things wrong. The thing with that is that soldiers are generally not experts on games. Military and games are two separate subjects. The ARMA series is your best bet if you want a game with pretentions to realism.



    Nailed it. A weapon that fires 1200 rpm shouldn't have a 4-5 btk out to 50 meters. The way bipods work turns these weapons into 1200 rpm lasers that kills you in the blink of an eye.
    The fact that you think you should be able to simply out run something like M60 rounds at 50 meters is hilarious. 

    It is a video game.....do you think it is normal for a soldier to get hit with a 4,000 pound bomb and still remain intact, and can come back to life with simple needle prick? Or how a .45 round to the head at point blank range yet you can still fully function. Even better having the ability to break dance and spin in circles while bipodding a MG42 off your nuts. You thinking there is some deeper realism to Battlefield versus other arcade shooters is freaking hilarious and completely grasping at straws.



    You're just angry because you can't run around like this is an arena shooter without getting mowed down. Oh well, too bad. Adapt or quit the game.

    Killing an entire squad is so satisfying. You think you're gonna just run up on my flag without using any type of tactics? Think again. I got 250 rounds for you and your buddies

    Lol, real badass here. Like your types are actually found anywhere near an objective but you keep defending that bush if it makes you feel like you are actually being useful.
  • bran1986
    5913 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 wrote: »
    bran1986 wrote: »
    bran1986 said:


    warslag wrote: »
    YUKnowWhatItIz said:



    warslag said:



    JamieCurnock said:





    warslag wrote: »

    @JamieCurnock 







    Bipods should not be in Battlefield at all. They are an awful gimmick.







    Really? A gimmick? It's not like they made up some weird game mechanic that doesn't exist in real life, it's an actual thing. Bipods are real. Why are they a gimmick?

    Because I believe bipods were one of those things that was put in Battlefield because players kept going on and on about it, particularly how it exists in real life (yawn). So they put it in the game as gimmick to keep those players happy. Which really is exactly why Westie is talking about it in the video. It's a gimmick that shouldn't be in the game because it's just too powerful. Going prone should make guns more accurate but adding a bipod is a gimmick and I think it's part of selling Battlefield. It's the exact same reason there going to be putting maps into BFV that have chokepoints. They know players want it and they like spamming there bipod LMG/MMGs. Movement should be king and using a bipod should be very, very weak to the point of being pointless which means it shouldn't be in the game in the first place. No doubt you'll ignore all that and just go "nah, I want a bipod cus I wanna bipod and if I don't get it we'll have a mass tantrum on the forums".



    Battlefield is supposed to be a balance between Arcade and Realism. Bipods are apart of that.



    Support Machine guns aren't exactly light weight and they're accuracy is nowhere near that of Sub Machine guns or Rifles. What do you suggest? Make them as accurate as a sub machine gun? Because without Bipods they're pretty worthless. 



    If anything you are the angry one because you and your friends can't run around like it's a mindless twitch shooter. I've killed groups of 3 and 4 people with my bipods, oh well, that's what happens when you rush. I'm sorry for killing you and your 4 buddies, but maybe you should slow it down and think. 



    You infer that it's mindless to run around, but how much more mindless is it then to play the game prone with a bipod? I and others have explained how it's the boost to a weapon's stat that make bipods too powerful and because they are powerful it alters the way players behave i.e they prone a lot and then maps are designed to cater to there prone with bipod behaviour.



    A good compromise would be to keep bipods but remove the stats so that players only received a universal boot to weapon stats for being prone.



    I see some players say they were soldiers and hoe Battlefield gets a lot of military things wrong. The thing with that is that soldiers are generally not experts on games. Military and games are two separate subjects. The ARMA series is your best bet if you want a game with pretentions to realism.



    Nailed it. A weapon that fires 1200 rpm shouldn't have a 4-5 btk out to 50 meters. The way bipods work turns these weapons into 1200 rpm lasers that kills you in the blink of an eye.
    The fact that you think you should be able to simply out run something like M60 rounds at 50 meters is hilarious. 

    It is a video game.....do you think it is normal for a soldier to get hit with a 4,000 pound bomb and still remain intact, and can come back to life with simple needle prick? Or how a .45 round to the head at point blank range yet you can still fully function. Even better having the ability to break dance and spin in circles while bipodding a MG42 off your nuts. You thinking there is some deeper realism to Battlefield versus other arcade shooters is freaking hilarious and completely grasping at straws.



    You're just angry because you can't run around like this is an arena shooter without getting mowed down. Oh well, too bad. Adapt or quit the game.

    Killing an entire squad is so satisfying. You think you're gonna just run up on my flag without using any type of tactics? Think again. I got 250 rounds for you and your buddies

    Lol, real **** here. Like your types are actually found anywhere near an objective but you keep defending that bush if it makes you feel like you are actually being useful.



    Actually no, I play on the flags. Most of us support play on the flag. We're not like snipers camping 200 yards away.

    Whatever helps you feel better though

    I highly doubt you are anywhere near a flag but whatever makes you feel better.
  • warslag
    1606 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Gimmicks sell games. Other items themselves are 'monetised' proving that gameplay designers know that items have a wider value to people who buy video games. The only reason the bipod is such a powerful boost to LMGs is to elevate it as a proper gimmick. If the effect of the bipod was weak then people would say it added no value, that it wasn't a proper gimmick and that they had been misold. Which proves that people only value it's worth as a gimmick in the first place.

    Gimmicks pollute gameplay. They're only added to sell more games. BF2 had the right balance between gameplay and believability. So did BF3. BF1 almost did but didn't. BFV doesn't. Gimmicks destroy gameplay and are a distraction from believability.

    In the case of the bipod, it's affect on guns is too strong which is what makes it stand out as a gimmick. :)
  • ninjapenquinuk
    2247 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 2019
    The bipod mechanic is not really any different to how previous games gave you an accuracy bonus for going prone. The only difference in the last couple games is you can now get the 'prone' bonus on certain weapons if you use a ledge or a wall to support the bipod as well as ground
    Post edited by ninjapenquinuk on
  • YUKnowWhatItIz
    342 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 said:
    bran1986 said:


    warslag wrote: »
    YUKnowWhatItIz said:



    warslag said:



    JamieCurnock said:





    warslag wrote: »

    @JamieCurnock 







    Bipods should not be in Battlefield at all. They are an awful gimmick.







    Really? A gimmick? It's not like they made up some weird game mechanic that doesn't exist in real life, it's an actual thing. Bipods are real. Why are they a gimmick?

    Because I believe bipods were one of those things that was put in Battlefield because players kept going on and on about it, particularly how it exists in real life (yawn). So they put it in the game as gimmick to keep those players happy. Which really is exactly why Westie is talking about it in the video. It's a gimmick that shouldn't be in the game because it's just too powerful. Going prone should make guns more accurate but adding a bipod is a gimmick and I think it's part of selling Battlefield. It's the exact same reason there going to be putting maps into BFV that have chokepoints. They know players want it and they like spamming there bipod LMG/MMGs. Movement should be king and using a bipod should be very, very weak to the point of being pointless which means it shouldn't be in the game in the first place. No doubt you'll ignore all that and just go "nah, I want a bipod cus I wanna bipod and if I don't get it we'll have a mass tantrum on the forums".



    Battlefield is supposed to be a balance between Arcade and Realism. Bipods are apart of that.



    Support Machine guns aren't exactly light weight and they're accuracy is nowhere near that of Sub Machine guns or Rifles. What do you suggest? Make them as accurate as a sub machine gun? Because without Bipods they're pretty worthless. 



    If anything you are the angry one because you and your friends can't run around like it's a mindless twitch shooter. I've killed groups of 3 and 4 people with my bipods, oh well, that's what happens when you rush. I'm sorry for killing you and your 4 buddies, but maybe you should slow it down and think. 



    You infer that it's mindless to run around, but how much more mindless is it then to play the game prone with a bipod? I and others have explained how it's the boost to a weapon's stat that make bipods too powerful and because they are powerful it alters the way players behave i.e they prone a lot and then maps are designed to cater to there prone with bipod behaviour.



    A good compromise would be to keep bipods but remove the stats so that players only received a universal boot to weapon stats for being prone.



    I see some players say they were soldiers and hoe Battlefield gets a lot of military things wrong. The thing with that is that soldiers are generally not experts on games. Military and games are two separate subjects. The ARMA series is your best bet if you want a game with pretentions to realism.



    Nailed it. A weapon that fires 1200 rpm shouldn't have a 4-5 btk out to 50 meters. The way bipods work turns these weapons into 1200 rpm lasers that kills you in the blink of an eye.
    The fact that you think you should be able to simply out run something like M60 rounds at 50 meters is hilarious. 

    It is a video game.....do you think it is normal for a soldier to get hit with a 4,000 pound bomb and still remain intact, and can come back to life with simple needle prick? Or how a .45 round to the head at point blank range yet you can still fully function. Even better having the ability to break dance and spin in circles while bipodding a MG42 off your nuts. You thinking there is some deeper realism to Battlefield versus other arcade shooters is freaking hilarious and completely grasping at straws.
    Blowing things out of proportions as usual.

    50 yards isn't even that far for 1. For 2, maybe if you played smart you wouldn't have to worry about getting mowed down. 
  • bran1986
    5913 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    The bipod mechanic is not really any different to how previous games gave you an accuracy bonus for going prone. The only difference in the last couple games is you can now get the 'prone' bonus on certain weapons if you use a ledge or a wall to support the bipod as well as ground

    Other games you didn't get a 25 max damage at 1200 rpm. Usually the higher the rate of fire, the less damage per bullet to balance the weapons out. For some insane reason dice decided to give MMGs the same damage model as assault rifles and lmgs, this essentially makes MMGs ohk weapons and makes them insanely strong out to 50 meters. With rate of fire, damage model, and the bipod which gives them smg like accuracy. The whole mmg mechanic is a stupid one.
  • Jezzzeh
    757 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    But but but ....

    You are completely immobile, incredibly visible when firing and make a racket like the Chinese state orchestra.

    Situational awareness! I usually let others go first and see what happens (pro tip there for free!)
  • warslag
    1606 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited June 2019
    Jezzzeh said:
    I dont often go MMG but when I do I make an effort to keep mobile, moving from one point of action to the next. It's often the case I'll see enemy players moving around on my way in the land between points. What's the natural thing to do I ask you? I'll even give you a choice.

    1. Do nothing keep moving and avoid the enemy until I get to the next point for fear of being labelled a camper
    2. Get down and get some rounds on them and couldn't care less about being called a "camper" later
    3. Go live off grid and do some spoon whittling living as god intended.

    Obviously its 2! .... context for clarity next.

    - from my point of view I am doing my job and preventing enemy's moving to the point I worked hard to cap.
    - from their point of view I will be viewed as a MMG user proned in the middle of nowhere and likely to be labelled "camper"

    This is 90% of MMG users in my opinion.
    I appreciate what you're saying, but it seems like you play Battlefield with a certain level of role-playing. There's no way I could say you aren't entitled to do that because clearly the game producers, DICE, have picked up on how a lot of players do actually play BF that way. I used to be the same though to be honest. It took a huge amount of played time before I saw the gameplay for what it really is. That can be a blessing when becoming a better player. But it's also a curse. Because you can then see all the fluff and gimmicks that've been added over time and you become very conscious of the massive influence these things have on the gameplay in Battlefield. Some of these deliberately overpowered gimmicks feel like vulgar acts of condescension by the developers. Or maybe they think we should "get a life" and stop worrying about it. Which again is condescending.
    Post edited by warslag on
  • bran1986
    5913 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Jezzzeh wrote: »
    But but but ....

    You are completely immobile, incredibly visible when firing and make a racket like the Chinese state orchestra.

    Situational awareness! I usually let others go first and see what happens (pro tip there for free!)

    It doesn't matter how immobile you are or how loud the gun is when you can kill before a human can react.
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