Weekly BF

Planes ruin the game

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  • VincentNZ
    3384 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    sabootheshaman said:
    Has any BF title launched with balanced planes/jets?


    BF4 was alright. Fighters killed Attack Planes, Attack planes killed vehicles, no planes could farm infantry, MAA was present on most maps and would serve as area denial tool, and also choppers were good at killing anything while also being vulnerable to anything. All the while set vehicle spawns made sure the vehicle distribution was balanced for the map.
    Now if a map had the chance to spawn eleven Attack Helis, I do not know if that would be good.

    Bro, clearly you didnt know how MAA works in bf4, it was never a area denial tool, it is whole map coverage, no aiming needed noob friendly vehicle, you dont even to aim with that ARM to mobility hit an air vehicle whole map away.
    Mate ARMs did, what, 20 dmg at the end and certainly no mobility crit after they patched it like two months into the game. That must have really inconvenienced you in your attack jet. 30mm that everybody ran, since it could damage vehicles and had good potential for killing infantry couldn't touch jets basically unless they flew right on top of you, which means they are area denial tools. And of course you are a target for everyone so the 20mm was not an option, I mean you ran 30mm yourself. 
    ARM certainly do not work "the whole map", they changed the tracking system as well, ECM blocked them, too, and you know how long the duration and cooldown of countermeasures were. I said the MAA was decent, yet against jets it was absolutely not about destroying them just keeping them away and if you knew what you were doing (I suppose with 90k kills you should) you could come from above and destroy the MAA without their turret being able to reach you.
  • EMPRR
    10 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    They should only be able to use extinguishers to get around 10 - 15 hp back to the plane. But remove the ability to repair your plane fully while flying. Instead give the bigger maps a place to land like in the older BF's
  • Hawxxeye
    6263 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    EMPRR said:
    They should only be able to use extinguishers to get around 10 - 15 hp back to the plane. But remove the ability to repair your plane fully while flying. Instead give the bigger maps a place to land like in the older BF's
    Have you tried landing a plane in BFV? It is so clunky that one would need half a map to land and stop.
  • okiie_918
    144 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    EMPRR said:
    They should only be able to use extinguishers to get around 10 - 15 hp back to the plane. But remove the ability to repair your plane fully while flying. Instead give the bigger maps a place to land like in the older BF's

    Have you tried landing a plane in BFV? It is so clunky that one would need half a map to land and stop.

    I have landed several times and let's just say the plane nose dives into the ground and there you are stuck as a ****! I have never took back off lol!
  • Hawxxeye
    6263 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    okiie_918 said:
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    EMPRR said:
    They should only be able to use extinguishers to get around 10 - 15 hp back to the plane. But remove the ability to repair your plane fully while flying. Instead give the bigger maps a place to land like in the older BF's

    Have you tried landing a plane in BFV? It is so clunky that one would need half a map to land and stop.

    I have landed several times and let's just say the plane nose dives into the ground and there you are stuck as a ****! I have never took back off lol!
    I have taken back off a few times but this game has worse landing/takeoff physics than Microsoft Flight simulator 95
  • EMPRR
    10 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye said:
    EMPRR said:
    They should only be able to use extinguishers to get around 10 - 15 hp back to the plane. But remove the ability to repair your plane fully while flying. Instead give the bigger maps a place to land like in the older BF's
    Have you tried landing a plane in BFV? It is so clunky that one would need half a map to land and stop.
    Well they are able to modify weapons and gadgets so I'm sure they would be able to make planes better at landing.
  • sabootheshaman
    1181 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    SirBobdk wrote: »
    Has any BF title launched with balanced planes/jets?

    Not really but it was worse in BF2 and 3.
    Even in BF4 i could farm infantry with the stealth jet mg. BF1 GS AT was also insane vs infantry. BFV air is just broken and boring. And for most pilots Its easy mode since there are almost no skilled pilots left.

    Totally. I set my expectations low on it since BF2. I remember the j10 dominating at launch. The ground AA being so easy to avoid. Even after several patches I could still dominate on wake with dives from high altitude giving fixed AA zero chance.

    BFV is really not that bad. I get frustrated when an ACE dominates, but that’s the same for all vehicles and even some inf.

    Map design however is not helping. Fjell is my opinion is a massive mistake. It would of been ok if they’d kept it to small bombers and fighters or added some tunnels to traverse some map sections.

    Currently, the state of play is just hard to judge. Bugs are also a massive issue with planes.
  • PrecisionWing
    643 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    VincentNZ said:
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    sabootheshaman said:
    Has any BF title launched with balanced planes/jets?


    BF4 was alright. Fighters killed Attack Planes, Attack planes killed vehicles, no planes could farm infantry, MAA was present on most maps and would serve as area denial tool, and also choppers were good at killing anything while also being vulnerable to anything. All the while set vehicle spawns made sure the vehicle distribution was balanced for the map.
    Now if a map had the chance to spawn eleven Attack Helis, I do not know if that would be good.

    Bro, clearly you didnt know how MAA works in bf4, it was never a area denial tool, it is whole map coverage, no aiming needed noob friendly vehicle, you dont even to aim with that ARM to mobility hit an air vehicle whole map away.
    no mobility crit after they patched it like two months into the game. 
    ARM certainly do not work "the whole map"
    You can't argue with someone who has no idea how MAA works, just making claims based on his own imagination. I doubt if you ever used MAA with ARM.
    Just one clip I made during bf4 days.
    Gladly after so many ppl complaining about MAA, DICE LA nerfed it a bit, but it's still super easy to get a 95:4 in a single round.
    I was shooting ARM across the map without proper aiming, and every single hit I made achieved mobility hit to enemy air vehicles. 
    If I said it once, I have said it 600 times, if you think one vehicle is breaking the game based on some experience you had, try to use that vehicle and get the same level/amount of kills, find out which one is more op, the vehicle or the player using it.
    And if you can't do it, then the problem is still not the vehicle, but the user. 
  • VincentNZ
    3384 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    VincentNZ said:
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    sabootheshaman said:
    Has any BF title launched with balanced planes/jets?


    BF4 was alright. Fighters killed Attack Planes, Attack planes killed vehicles, no planes could farm infantry, MAA was present on most maps and would serve as area denial tool, and also choppers were good at killing anything while also being vulnerable to anything. All the while set vehicle spawns made sure the vehicle distribution was balanced for the map.
    Now if a map had the chance to spawn eleven Attack Helis, I do not know if that would be good.

    Bro, clearly you didnt know how MAA works in bf4, it was never a area denial tool, it is whole map coverage, no aiming needed noob friendly vehicle, you dont even to aim with that ARM to mobility hit an air vehicle whole map away.
    no mobility crit after they patched it like two months into the game. 
    ARM certainly do not work "the whole map"
    You can't argue with someone who has no idea how MAA works, just making claims based on his own imagination. I doubt if you ever used MAA with ARM.
    Just one clip I made during bf4 days.
    Gladly after so many ppl complaining about MAA, DICE LA nerfed it a bit, but it's still super easy to get a 95:4 in a single round.
    I was shooting ARM across the map without proper aiming, and every single hit I made achieved mobility hit to enemy air vehicles. 
    If I said it once, I have said it 600 times, if you think one vehicle is breaking the game based on some experience you had, try to use that vehicle and get the same level/amount of kills, find out which one is more op, the vehicle or the player using it.
    And if you can't do it, then the problem is still not the vehicle, but the user. 

    Geez, first that is anecdotal. Secondly I never said the MAA was OP, never said the jets were OP in BF4. I said the Air-Ground balance was best in BF4 for reason. And from the post-patch clip you see yourself how little the MAA does against the jets, especially the ARM, which I talked about in my post. Nowhere did I argue that the MAA could not deal with choppers. I am not going to watch a round of 58 minutes, but what I saw is the use of the MAA as area denial. I also never saw you sniping "across the map". You do realize that you were standing bang in the middle, right? The killcount is not the deciding factor, either. It is that you can create a no-fly zone and there is a reason why you did not move any further and that is because you couldn't do so safely.
    I do believe you did not read my posts carefully as I can not understand what exactly the point is you are trying to get across. That airgame is balanced/imbalanced? That MAA is OP (surely not, because it is vulnerable to anything).
    Now, what I have said 600 times, is that in order to understand the game mechanics, you have to think about all consequences and POVs. Now I extrapolate from your stats as a main pilot that the MAA merely inconvenienced you, otherwise you would not have reached that K/D. So you either player only on maps and modes without it, or know exactly where the MAA is and deal with that information. Now that stands to reason.
    Now I take a look at your BFV stats and surprisingly your K/D has risen from 8.53 to 10.78 to 14.07 over the course of three games. So to extrapolate more on this, for nearly every kill in BF4 you also destroyed one vehicle, which is really impressive. In BF1 you killed 54k people with planes and 16k vehicles, so you killed more than twice as many infantrymen. Sadly the tracker does not show destroyed vehicles for BFV anymore, yet I would say the ratio will likely have gone up. Now what I am saying here is that obviously you are doing much, much better now than in BF4. Why is that? Because the air-ground balance is messed up and for you it was "best-balanced" in BF4.
  • SirBobdk
    4179 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    It was easy to farm infantry in BF3, but this game had a lot of skilled pilots so you had to be good in order to stay alive. The mechanics was also different and harder to master. The maa was also more balanced. BF4 lost most of the good pilots and a lot used planes as transport. The maa in BF4 was easy mode with active rader and created an  Imbalance. In both games the choppers were farming machines. But I agree that BF4 had more counters against air. BF1 was imo also planes farming infantry. First with the treanch fighter and later on with the GS AP and bombers,
    .
    Now we have BFV and the planes are still deadly, but most of the pilots are not and dont have a clue what they are doing. It has become so easy to fly with BFV that any who want to invest some time can climp the leaderboard, but only a few does. BFV lack counter against planes but I still clame that infantry have a much better time compared to other BF games.
    .

  • GrinddalDDG
    427 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Imo their presence is too big...

    Bombers siping around in grand ops and breakthrough constantly, you cannot be in any bulding because they will try to bomb all buildings constantly, even if they have no clue they will just blindly bomb.

    not only is it annoying, but they also remove any sign of cover..

    Have hated plane meta since bf1.
  • SirBobdk
    4179 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Imo their presence is too big...

    Bombers siping around in grand ops and breakthrough constantly, you cannot be in any bulding because they will try to bomb all buildings constantly, even if they have no clue they will just blindly bomb.

    not only is it annoying, but they also remove any sign of cover..

    Have hated plane meta since bf1.

    Planes have been a problem in GO and BT since the beginning. Bombers have no place in game modes where players are clustered in a small area. We saw the same pattern in BF1. Fighters and Ground attack planes only imo.
  • Hawxxeye
    6263 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 30
    SirBobdk said:
    Imo their presence is too big...

    Bombers siping around in grand ops and breakthrough constantly, you cannot be in any bulding because they will try to bomb all buildings constantly, even if they have no clue they will just blindly bomb.

    not only is it annoying, but they also remove any sign of cover..

    Have hated plane meta since bf1.

    Planes have been a problem in GO and BT since the beginning. Bombers have no place in game modes where players are clustered in a small area. We saw the same pattern in BF1. Fighters and Ground attack planes only imo.
    Sadly this game is lacking in proper ground attack planes like the ones from BF1
    The Blenheim with the explosive rounds is the closest thing I find to an attack plane
    Here are some kills and a spectacular  engine failure death at the end. (the engine refused to be repaired until it was too late)


  • PrecisionWing
    643 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    SirBobdk said:


    GrinddalDDG wrote: »
    Imo their presence is too big...



    Bombers siping around in grand ops and breakthrough constantly, you cannot be in any bulding because they will try to bomb all buildings constantly, even if they have no clue they will just blindly bomb.



    not only is it annoying, but they also remove any sign of cover..



    Have hated plane meta since bf1.



    Planes have been a problem in GO and BT since the beginning. Bombers have no place in game modes where players are clustered in a small area. We saw the same pattern in BF1. Fighters and Ground attack planes only imo.
    Sadly this game is lacking in proper ground attack planes like the ones from BF1The Blenheim with the explosive rounds is the closest thing I find to an attack planeHere are some kills and a spectacular  engine failure death at the end. (the engine refused to be repaired until it was too late)


    The problem is without 313 speed control, bombers and kindof attack planes have no chances at all against fighters. In bf3/4, stealth planes had a huge advantage over attack planes, however thanks to 313 speed control, A2G pilot still have a fighting chance if they mastered their maneuverability.
    So in bf5, personally I dont think there is any need to use bombers/attack planes, every rookie can shoot you down easily before you can do anything constructive for your team.
  • ShakariPsy
    6 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 1
    NLBartmaN wrote: »
    I keep on wondering why infantry only players play BF...

    Planes are in a terrible state right now (too little damage, hard to hit something with on console and terrible to fly) in this BF and some players still whine about them...

    Yeah it is easier to whine about planes then to learn to use them. Dice put practice range in and even though it isnt the best I was able to figure out how what control layout works for me and general shooting enemie planes enough that I could easily get better as I go in pub matches. What practice range doesnt do is show people how to bomb seat switch on any other thing people complain about with flying. AA guns need to be used in tandem with other pilots and you need to learn to lead targets. I actually turned the tides in the air without being on the ground because I can make it harder for the enemy to kill my planes and weaken them enough for my pilots to take them out. Also if they are now focused on you and the AA then that means they are not strafing your team. Equip support engineer and you can keep repairing the AA gun and troll them. Planes are far from OP against ground due to poor visibilty and flight mechanics make it so you have to look for planes first unless you want to be melted without a chance to flee and reset.
    Unless everyone can use a plane at the same time, leaning to use them is an irrelevence for infantry to a large degree and ofc planes are fine for whoever is flying them thats blindingly obvious, and AA is to limted and to co-ordinate all this in a random game is basically expecting far to much. If your playing as a group of friends with TS then yeah sure its a great idea but far from practical in reality.
      As things stand when on the receiving end ie, as infantry, when its constant bombs or straffing runs... its simply nor fun in any way. You can't have a meaningful ground battle and it become simply "who can field the most bombers", which is not good for gameplay and not good for the game and your not going to be able for force players to play a certain way. Want needs to be done is changes that balance it in relation to reality and how the game is played by most players, not how it "ideally" should be played by dedicated people.

    and there also has been a change with plane vs plane, hit detection has fallen through the floor with the last patch.
  • Hawxxeye
    6263 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    SirBobdk said:


    GrinddalDDG wrote: »
    Imo their presence is too big...



    Bombers siping around in grand ops and breakthrough constantly, you cannot be in any bulding because they will try to bomb all buildings constantly, even if they have no clue they will just blindly bomb.



    not only is it annoying, but they also remove any sign of cover..



    Have hated plane meta since bf1.



    Planes have been a problem in GO and BT since the beginning. Bombers have no place in game modes where players are clustered in a small area. We saw the same pattern in BF1. Fighters and Ground attack planes only imo.
    Sadly this game is lacking in proper ground attack planes like the ones from BF1The Blenheim with the explosive rounds is the closest thing I find to an attack planeHere are some kills and a spectacular  engine failure death at the end. (the engine refused to be repaired until it was too late)
    image

    The problem is without 313 speed control, bombers and kindof attack planes have no chances at all against fighters. In bf3/4, stealth planes had a huge advantage over attack planes, however thanks to 313 speed control, A2G pilot still have a fighting chance if they mastered their maneuverability.
    So in bf5, personally I dont think there is any need to use bombers/attack planes, every rookie can shoot you down easily before you can do anything constructive for your team.
    I think I have demonstrated how rookie fighters get destroyed by the "front/bottom" rear MGs
    In that game of GO, I scored 60 kills with 3 deaths all of the deaths being in the airdrop section (I armed and destroyed 2 objectives though so worth it).
    The Blenheims are deadly to rookie BF109 pilots, only the B2 stuka would be a problem, thankfully almost nobody uses it.
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