LevelCap--BFV is in trouble

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Comments

  • TH3_R1PP3R
    235 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    VincentNZ said:

    ShevermiN said:
    In that video LC said that BF5 was  the worst of the Battlefields  ????   8 months after release how was BF4 going ???   It was a hot mess. BC2 started with a 10 tick rate. Youtubers complaining about cosmetics not working ??  how is that game breaking....
    Yes the patches break things, and yes a CTE would probably solve that issue, but am I the only one seeing the big improvements in visuals with each patch most noticably the reflections.  For me the game doesn't crash like it did at launch.  And stutter, well please it's an online game,  my internet will never be smooth enough to make judgment call on that side of the game.

    This game is 8 months into a 2 year rollout and far from a train wreck people would have you believe, considering that those making the most noise probably haven't bought the game or play once a week. While they sink another 100 hours a week into PUBG..




    It is the worst BF, it really is. The gameplay is okay, and noone really complains about that. The game is a perfect example of hybris. They wanted everything and could not deliver anything. BF4 released on time, feature complete, and working with highly overrated netcode issues. Just like the netcode issues in BFV. People that complain about hitreg and being shot around corners are very rarely objective and their perception is flawed. If you honestly think that BF4 was unplayable at release, you must think at least the same about BFV.
    It took them six months to make the game feature complete, delaying everything else, and their base design is so sloppy that even fundamental things like the shop and a usable interface for it were just recently added to the game. They are still behind in everything that they do and working with a broken system trying to fix issues here and add new content there.

    I'm going to say with confidence that I have many, many times as many hours in BF4 as you, and I have clear memories of that game being in far worse shape at launch than BFV.  Tanks would roll around as wire-frame skeletons, RPGs would stick in the sides of tanks like spears but without exploding, grenades would disappear into thin air, crashing was a regular occurrence, players could be suspended in mid-air if they were in the elevators of that collapsing high-rise, hit reg could be so bad that point-blank shots that could not possibly have missed would have no effect, tests showed the gap between what one player saw and what his opponent saw could be as much as two-thirds of a second apart, the audio would completely disappear from one Conquest map, later the audio would disappear from TDM maps every round, one game mode was broken from launch and if it was ever fixed everyone had given up on it by then, a particular suppressor being equipped on a particular gun would crash the server--and so on and so forth, it was horribly broken and clearly should not have been released when it was.

    BFV's issues at launch were not even close to that bad.

    Of course the difference is that EA pulled out all the stops on fixing BF4, and it was fixed although that took over a year.  BFV, on the other hand, it getting little bits of repair work but the patches involved break as many things as they fix.  And the big issue, the network performance, is worse now than it was at release, and it was already not as good as that of BF1.  It's obvious that EA is no longer willing to expend resources on the scale of the BF4 repair effort, their new business model is about keeping costs down.  So BFV is probably not going to get that much better, at least very quickly.  That's a shame, this could have been a terrific game, but EA decided to make it a bargain-basement project and the result is it's a smaller game with a drip-feed of new content and technical problems that just don't go away.  BF4 was a train wreck that became a great game, BFV is an okay game that is slowly withering from corporate neglect.
    Bf4 was a trainwreck at launch. Anybody saying anything different didnt play it then. The diffrence was, the games overall structure of gameplay was really really good. It allowed that **** to be polished to a shine. And its alot of longtime BF players favorite title in the series, including mine. Bfv on the other hand is buggy , just like bf4 was. But that's where it ends in comparison. Bfv has a huge problem with its core gameplay. It just isnt fun, dosent matter if you play infantry, fly or play armor. The replaybility isnt there like it was in other bf titles.
  • xBCxSEALxTEAMx6
    1416 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Aww what a shame, another dice you tuber down the drain. 
  • XRothbardX
    16 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 11
    and on top of all this, they stealth nerf hip fire to a total rng state as described by Stodeh . i dont understand in a game that is already suffering from bad hit detection (that doesnt seem to be fixed by the way), why would they nerf this aspect of gun play to that point that it feels like it is bugged? this change imo is a terrible one and without any good reason at all and without telling us so, (it acts like a bug) in a game that has already made so many mistakes. i just have to ask where is this game heading, is there any hope, and what is the focus of the team? i cant play a game that is more frustrating than fun so i will continue to follow with the hope that it returns to a fun, playable state. 
  • parkingbrake
    3202 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 said:
    Like I said before I find it amusing that all the YouTubers are now coming out at the same time with these videos when they should have been voicing these concerns 6+ months ago with the rest of us.
    I'm puzzled, how have you missed that half of this video consists of clips from months ago where LC voiced concerns about these issues?  He even puts dates on the clips, it's hard to miss.  If the YouTuber community is now united in being this harsh perhaps it's because a sort of critical mass has been reached, they're hearing from their viewers that few now believe that this game will be salvaged and they have to respond to that.  But LevelCap--and I am not remotely one of his followers--has been pointing out these things all along, we cannot just ignore that as if it didn't happen.  At least we can't ignore it if we want to maintain any sort of integrity.  I used to write research papers which I had to defend in front of seminars, I couldn't just make it up, and maybe that has stuck with me all these years.  Some other folks are more flexible, and maybe some YouTubers have only recently become this critical.  But no offense, you can't say LC should have voiced these concerns 6+ months ago when he has just posted a video where he shows himself doing exactly that.
  • plasticman883
    374 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Alaedrea wrote: »
    A YouTuber's job is to generate views to their videos. Nothing more, nothing less. Yes some of these YouTubers have been given money to promote the game, but it is not their main source of revenue. And in the case of BF5, these promotions are only every time new major content comes out (Firestorm, Launch, Pacific Theatre). In the meantime they have to make near daily videos to sustain their viewership/income. Nothing generates views like negative, melodramatic opinions to things. He and every other "BF YouTuber" did the same thing for BF1, and BF4 before that. The fact that they fool the vast majority of people into thinking they genuinely believe these things or even care about them, is why they keep doing it, and keep being successful.

    Are you a YouTube or streamer? If not then what gives you the right to say thats the only thing they care about. Actually coming from that side of the barn whatever you just said is complete nonsense if its your hobby playing and making content for bf or any game for that matter. Sure ideally you can and want to make money but some of these people including myself still have daily jobs and make enough to make end meet and more. Its naive to say "its only for the money" when you dont know the individual personally.
    "If you don't know who the sucker is on the poker table, it's probably you."

    Think on.
  • Hawxxeye
    5179 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 said:
    Like I said before I find it amusing that all the YouTubers are now coming out at the same time with these videos when they should have been voicing these concerns 6+ months ago with the rest of us.
    Protubers are running a business so they need to not appear out of line in the eyes of EA.
  • TropicPoison
    2320 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    ShevermiN wrote: »
    In that video LC said that BF5 was  the worst of the Battlefields  ????   8 months after release how was BF4 going ???   It was a hot mess. BC2 started with a 10 tick rate. Youtubers complaining about cosmetics not working ??  how is that game breaking....
    Yes the patches break things, and yes a CTE would probably solve that issue, but am I the only one seeing the big improvements in visuals with each patch most noticably the reflections.  For me the game doesn't crash like it did at launch.  And stutter, well please it's an online game,  my internet will never be smooth enough to make judgment call on that side of the game.

    This game is 8 months into a 2 year rollout and far from a train wreck people would have you believe, considering that those making the most noise probably haven't bought the game or play once a week. While they sink another 100 hours a week into PUBG..


    Idk what reality you live in but BF4 8 months in is and was a hell of a lot better than BFV will ever be in it's entire life cycle.

    I played 100 or so hours of BFV it's by far the worst in the series, even worse than hardline fun wise imo, hell even hardline had zone interesting maps. What does BFV have that's better than any past Battlefield games? I think the shooting is pretty week it's pretty much lasers from certain guns or deployed with a bipod, or was might not be now but I never felt any joy or excitement gunning down an oblivious squad solo.

    Vehicle combat is definitely the worst it's ever been.

    BF4 had some bad rubber banding for awhile and random disconnects but it doesn't even compare to the frustration that BFV has given me ONLY 8 months in.
  • MarauderFox
    40 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Of course the difference is that EA pulled out all the stops on fixing BF4, and it was fixed although that took over a year.  BFV, on the other hand, it getting little bits of repair work but the patches involved break as many things as they fix.  And the big issue, the network performance, is worse now than it was at release, and it was already not as good as that of BF1.  It's obvious that EA is no longer willing to expend resources on the scale of the BF4 repair effort, their new business model is about keeping costs down.  So BFV is probably not going to get that much better, at least very quickly.  That's a shame, this could have been a terrific game, but EA decided to make it a bargain-basement project and the result is it's a smaller game with a drip-feed of new content and technical problems that just don't go away.  BF4 was a train wreck that became a great game, BFV is an okay game that is slowly withering from corporate neglect.
    That's an accurate summary of BF4 year 1. Never forget the QBU88 disabling sound for everyone in the round.

    I presume EA isn't committed to fixing V as it did 4 because the financial payoff isn't there.
    The game isn't full price for many potential customers, they can't sell premium or DLCs and they can't compete to steal players away from PUBG, Fortnite or even BF1 and 4; combined thr price isn't feasible nor is the ability to gain new customers for a BF4 fixing effort to be financially worthwhile.

    It's almost as if BF4 was to valuable to not fix; if they didn't they'd miss out on millions of base game, DLC and premium sales (given how well BF3 sold) when there was no competition.
  • dcs500
    1387 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 said:
    Like I said before I find it amusing that all the YouTubers are now coming out at the same time with these videos when they should have been voicing these concerns 6+ months ago with the rest of us.

    Does seem fairly coincidental, maybe the cheques didn't clear.
  • plasticman883
    374 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 said:
    Like I said before I find it amusing that all the YouTubers are now coming out at the same time with these videos when they should have been voicing these concerns 6+ months ago with the rest of us.
    I'm puzzled, how have you missed that half of this video consists of clips from months ago where LC voiced concerns about these issues?  He even puts dates on the clips, it's hard to miss.  If the YouTuber community is now united in being this harsh perhaps it's because a sort of critical mass has been reached, they're hearing from their viewers that few now believe that this game will be salvaged and they have to respond to that.  But LevelCap--and I am not remotely one of his followers--has been pointing out these things all along, we cannot just ignore that as if it didn't happen.  At least we can't ignore it if we want to maintain any sort of integrity.  I used to write research papers which I had to defend in front of seminars, I couldn't just make it up, and maybe that has stuck with me all these years.  Some other folks are more flexible, and maybe some YouTubers have only recently become this critical.  But no offense, you can't say LC should have voiced these concerns 6+ months ago when he has just posted a video where he shows himself doing exactly that.
    Your old man contrarian takes on everything are getting old. None of these YT'ers were voicing the same overtly critical opinions a mere months ago. If they mentioned an issue, it was very quickly counterbalanced by 3 or 4 good ones or some video shilling a new shiny weapon. 


  • SirBobdk
    3924 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member

    Bf4 was a trainwreck at launch. Anybody saying anything different didnt play it then. The diffrence was, the games overall structure of gameplay was really really good. It allowed that **** to be polished to a shine. And its alot of longtime BF players favorite title in the series, including mine. Bfv on the other hand is buggy , just like bf4 was. But that's where it ends in comparison. Bfv has a huge problem with its core gameplay. It just isnt fun, dosent matter if you play infantry, fly or play armor. The replaybility isnt there like it was in other bf titles.
    Agree it was a trainwreck.
    Remember the active rader and "flip over" of choppers and planes.
    But behind all the crashes and bugs it had many well designed maps and fun gameplay imo.
    It had more for everyone. I hope we will see BFV transform in the same way, but its hard to see how looking at the core game.

  • VincentNZ
    2578 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    VincentNZ said:
    ShevermiN said:
    In that video LC said that BF5 was  the worst of the Battlefields  ????   8 months after release how was BF4 going ???   It was a hot mess. BC2 started with a 10 tick rate. Youtubers complaining about cosmetics not working ??  how is that game breaking....
    Yes the patches break things, and yes a CTE would probably solve that issue, but am I the only one seeing the big improvements in visuals with each patch most noticably the reflections.  For me the game doesn't crash like it did at launch.  And stutter, well please it's an online game,  my internet will never be smooth enough to make judgment call on that side of the game.

    This game is 8 months into a 2 year rollout and far from a train wreck people would have you believe, considering that those making the most noise probably haven't bought the game or play once a week. While they sink another 100 hours a week into PUBG..


    It is the worst BF, it really is. The gameplay is okay, and noone really complains about that. The game is a perfect example of hybris. They wanted everything and could not deliver anything. BF4 released on time, feature complete, and working with highly overrated netcode issues. Just like the netcode issues in BFV. People that complain about hitreg and being shot around corners are very rarely objective and their perception is flawed. If you honestly think that BF4 was unplayable at release, you must think at least the same about BFV.
    It took them six months to make the game feature complete, delaying everything else, and their base design is so sloppy that even fundamental things like the shop and a usable interface for it were just recently added to the game. They are still behind in everything that they do and working with a broken system trying to fix issues here and add new content there.
    I'm going to say with confidence that I have many, many times as many hours in BF4 as you, and I have clear memories of that game being in far worse shape at launch than BFV.  Tanks would roll around as wire-frame skeletons, RPGs would stick in the sides of tanks like spears but without exploding, grenades would disappear into thin air, crashing was a regular occurrence, players could be suspended in mid-air if they were in the elevators of that collapsing high-rise, hit reg could be so bad that point-blank shots that could not possibly have missed would have no effect, tests showed the gap between what one player saw and what his opponent saw could be as much as two-thirds of a second apart, the audio would completely disappear from one Conquest map, later the audio would disappear from TDM maps every round, one game mode was broken from launch and if it was ever fixed everyone had given up on it by then, a particular suppressor being equipped on a particular gun would crash the server--and so on and so forth, it was horribly broken and clearly should not have been released when it was.

    BFV's issues at launch were not even close to that bad.

    Of course the difference is that EA pulled out all the stops on fixing BF4, and it was fixed although that took over a year.  BFV, on the other hand, it getting little bits of repair work but the patches involved break as many things as they fix.  And the big issue, the network performance, is worse now than it was at release, and it was already not as good as that of BF1.  It's obvious that EA is no longer willing to expend resources on the scale of the BF4 repair effort, their new business model is about keeping costs down.  So BFV is probably not going to get that much better, at least very quickly.  That's a shame, this could have been a terrific game, but EA decided to make it a bargain-basement project and the result is it's a smaller game with a drip-feed of new content and technical problems that just don't go away.  BF4 was a train wreck that became a great game, BFV is an okay game that is slowly withering from corporate neglect.

    You do, although I daresay, once you cross the threshold of 1000h there is not much more to learn. :D In any case, I will still tell you that I had no major issues with BF4, ever and neither had the people I played with. Nothing out of the ordinary in any case, or that could clearly be marked as the game's fault and where there was no workaround. On Mantle it looked like I was on LSD with all wobbly colour effects, solution was to simply shut off Mantle. I think I might have rolled back to an earlier AMD driver, too. Ah and reinstalling Punkbuster, had to do that three times or so.
    I had crashes, yep, that is to be expected in a PC game. In the first months I might have had five or so, that could be blamed on the game. There must have been issues, they just were never part of my game experience. Maybe I was lucky, but it is most likely that I go about it in a more objective manner.
    Most of the times complaints are just echo chambers and it is way easier to blame poor game performance on external issues than on factors in one's own control. "Netcode", which basically compounds for everything wonky since 2013, is mostly a scapegoat for player problems. Personally the first time I ever had hits not registering in this franchise was last week, at four engagements, over two rounds on one server.
    Oh you see a bunch of videos of that on the net, yet this is hardly proof and on half these clips you see a bright orange sign on the right indicating that there is a connection problem. Netcode issue solved. Or when you get shot "behind cover" but graciously forget, ragdoll mechanics, the killcam angle, that you are playing with a FOV of 90° where you can never confirm that you are behind cover, or with a higher FOV where everything on the sides is stretched or squeezed so that you also can not confirm that you were indeed in cover. I say most of it is flawed perception.
    However you do see more wonky behaviour and issues, but that can be put down to mostly to forced 64p experience on public servers with no admins, so you do have more out of region players and higher chances of people with connection issues, while also the server load is higher.
    What you can not argue away in BFV is that many players have stability issues and issues with their framerate, which mostly has to do with the game structure (assignment overlay) and that 40% players (me included) play on rigs that are not suited for this game and this game is really CPU heavy.
    If we go full-circle again to BF4 let us not forget that this game ran with a low tickrate, which also was the cause of a lot of "netcode"-complaints and that the server structure was improved within the cycle, which is a huge task. BFV launched with a feasible tickrate and is in no need of a structure update.
    The difference between these games then mostly lie within the foundations on which updates are applied and probably communication and manpower discrepancies. BF4 had working systems, while in BFV the systems are either being worked on themselves, worked around or have to be worked with, which amplifies any problems and cause the issues we see each month.

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