Flakfire on what went wrong with BFV and how it can be fixed

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parkingbrake
3202 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
This is a long and thoughtful discussion on how BFV got into so much trouble, why so many fans are so upset, and how EA/DICE might be able to turn things around.  Although Flakfire doesn't shy away from pointing out some of the blunders EA/DICE has made, he doesn't come across like all he wants to do throw blame around.  And like so many of us long-time BF fans, he would much rather EA/DICE figured it out and started managing the game in a way that put players first so we could not only enjoy this BF title, but look forward to the next title as well rather than avoiding it.  It's worth the time to watch.


Comments

  • baroncrovax
    249 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Out of all the recent wave of videos on this topic, this one I think is most aligned with my understanding.

    Not saying it's correct for sure. Just saying I agree with it.
  • MintySSD
    30 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Dice: Take BF V offline everyone go back to BF1 fix BFV with a re launch inc all new maps we are happy to wait 6 months, its our early xmas present.

    You've run out of wars to turn into a game unless your going to do *Desert Storm, Bf Afghanistan, Bf Iraq, 
  • DingoKillr
    3507 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    MintySSD said:
    Dice: Take BF V offline everyone go back to BF1 fix BFV with a re launch inc all new maps we are happy to wait 6 months, its our early xmas present.

    You've run out of wars to turn into a game unless your going to do *Desert Storm, Bf Afghanistan, Bf Iraq, 
    Which war is BF2, BF3 or BF4? 
  • NLBartmaN
    3173 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member

    We got bombers that are design to wipe out Zerging with nothing to counter bombers. 

    After this part I could not take you serious anymore ...

    Try to fly a bomber and we will talk again ...

    If there is 1 fighter (or plane with insane front canons like the JU-88C, Stuka or Mosquito) in the air or 1 player with a mobile AA, you will be down within 30 seconds after you spawn in the bomber.

    Also try to make more than 4 kills in one run on Conquest (without help of a friend with spot flares ) and do this at least 3 times in one round ... give it your best shot.
  • ProAssassin2003
    3314 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    You Tubers are responsible for BFV. And I think it's funny how they abandoned it after there videos created this Mess.
  • ProAssassin2003
    3314 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I think we can all agree this game is broken in so many ways that almost none of us can agree on where to begin to fix it.

    For me the biggest issue is skills balancing, but associated with that is the poor player physics with the bunny hopping sliding and instant direction changes that are enabled in the game engine. I'm tired of playing Agent Smith trying to shoot Neo. Sniper on PC is ridiculous where from the fraction of a second when I've pulled the trigger my target has immediately changed direction and is not where I've been tracking.

    Because this is possible it's how everyone plays. It's like watching 32 skittering cockroaches dashing about mindlessly. It might be rewarding for those that are used to being super-mario, but it destroys the game for so many more players.

    I'm sure many will disagree, while others will agree but perceive other problems to be more pressing. I'm very close to the limit of my patience with this train wreck of a game.


    This 100%. Movement needs nerfed 30% across the board. Sliding needs removed. And Jumping from ground level needs nerfed considerably. Gameplay would improve drastically.
  • DingoKillr
    3507 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    NLBartmaN said:

    We got bombers that are design to wipe out Zerging with nothing to counter bombers. 

    After this part I could not take you serious anymore ...

    Try to fly a bomber and we will talk again ...

    If there is 1 fighter (or plane with insane front canons like the JU-88C, Stuka or Mosquito) in the air or 1 player with a mobile AA, you will be down within 30 seconds after you spawn in the bomber.

    Also try to make more than 4 kills in one run on Conquest (without help of a friend with spot flares ) and do this at least 3 times in one round ... give it your best shot.
    Right so bombers have not been or are currently not a problem because on some maps in 1 mode they appear weak to you. 
  • Trokey66
    8248 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    NLBartmaN said:

    DingoKillr said:

    We got bombers that are design to wipe out Zerging with nothing to counter bombers. 



    After this part I could not take you serious anymore ...

    Try to fly a bomber and we will talk again ...

    If there is 1 fighter (or plane with insane front canons like the JU-88C, Stuka or Mosquito) in the air or 1 player with a mobile AA, you will be down within 30 seconds after you spawn in the bomber.

    Also try to make more than 4 kills in one run on Conquest (without help of a friend with spot flares ) and do this at least 3 times in one round ... give it your best shot.

    Right so bombers have not been or are currently not a problem because on some maps in 1 mode they appear weak to you. 

    This is the guy who thinks there is nothing wrong with BF1's Heavy Bombers so I wouldn't take him too seriously.

    Your observations above are spot on by the way.
  • parkingbrake
    3202 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 12
    It was reasonable, but I couldn't care less about cosmetics and authenticity. He never mentioned frustrating game play, poor visibility and broken audio, which are the main reasons I stopped playing. So none of his suggestions will do anything for me.
    I took his point to be that both the problems he mentioned (and those he didn't) are all symptoms of the current corporate culture at EA/DICE, infamously summed up by the If you don't like it don't buy it comment.  It isn't that audio bugs are more important than visual bugs, or that one weapon is OP and another isn't, and so on, it's that EA has changed the way they want games made and DICE has responded by becoming sloppy and short-sighted.  Specific problems are not the point here, it's the way the game has been made and managed that is the point.  As he says,  EA needs to take ownership of these mistakes and convince players that in future the game will be run in a way that makes players glad they bought it.

    Also keep in mind that there are plenty of players who do care about cosmetic or authenticity, but again it isn't their specific gripes that matter, it's the underlying process of making and managing the game which disappointed both them and you at the same time that is the real issue.
    Post edited by parkingbrake on
  • parkingbrake
    3202 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Sorry, boring waffle. Another video by a EA game changer that says the type of content is the main issue or somehow words that the majority of players never heard is a key problem.

    But let's ignore how the game play and I don't mean bugs BF4 had more major issue than BFV. Balance, gun play or even just playing.

    BFV has been set to be competitive infantry play with fixed class roles. Just fantastic for those that just want to play a few rounds and don't want fun.

    We got bombers that are design to wipe out Zerging with nothing to counter bombers. Infantry with 1 class that broke fixed range roles which encouraged more to use it. Tanks with weak Anti-Infantry while every second player is Assault. 

    Then add decision to appease the Anti-Gadget, Anti-Explosive and Anti-camping crowds. Attrition nerfed to help Assault solo while classes like Recon meant to be out of the action still suffered under it. Spot removed making those who are on team mikes better team players and Kill cam or look around on death, great enchanced team play and balance. DICE talks about team while making a single class the premier class.

    Players left because Recon weapons suck, Medic weapon suck, Support weapon suck. Yet we have the same EA game changers saying what is wrong while calling for more nerfs to weapons. Then lets nerf gadgets to what encourage diversity in gun play yer that thinking will make players come back.

    Then we had little things like Stationary cannon not working correctly, scopes and sights not suited to the game, or dismount to repair tanks/stations. 

    It is not hit or miss decisions, but conflicting priority is BFV a team game for all players or just a few. Not having Naval/water combat at launch for me is bad decision but I am upset at that but can live with it. But not being able to tell my team with a game function that there is a guy there is beyond stupid.

    There are moments where I wonder if I'm playing the same game as some other posters, this is one of them.  Support weapons suck?  Then how do I get way more kills playing that class than any other?  Now that I've finally started playing Recon regularly how am I knocking over so many opponents if the weapons are so bad?  And when I drive a tank the vast majority of my kills are on infantry, so I really don't get this notion that tanks have weak anti-infantry weapons.  Other things are more a matter of opinion, mine being that no more universal 3D spotting was a good change.  But some of these other points baffle me, I just don't experience these things.

    However I don't think such specific issues are what Flakfire was talking about, his video isn't about symptoms, it's about why the process of making and managing BFV has gone off the rails and what they need to do to fix it.  Whether you think Recon weapon suck and I think they're fine isn't the point, how DICE has been put in the position of making a game that is so displeasing to so many players is the point.
  • X_Sunslayer_X
    761 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    well if i remember it correctly most of these game-changers wanted most of the features (removing of spotting/more realistic visibility/ more HC gun-play/ attrition/...)
    and now that its very apparent that these mechanics dont really translate well into BF at all (at least most of them) they try and blame it on DICE excuse me WTF?!
    DICE surely screwed up big time again with BFV no questions about that but they played a role in all that we should not be underestimating.
    BF4 had performance issues but the core game was good overall.
    BFV has horrible core design-flaws and bad performance on top so i don't really understand why everyone says after we get more content the game will be golden.....
    every possible balance aspect of BFV is meh at best. (team-balance/gadget balance/animations/vehicle-balance/sound-design/map-design/weapon-balance/class-balance/faction-balance/visibility/optical-balance(3x scopes are literally a no-brainer at this point if you can put it on)/UI is laughable at best/...../
    i mean there are without a doubt two classes in the game that have absurd amounts of versatility in all fields and on top great and powerful gadgets. then there is recon and medic struggeling to find their purpose beyond their individual role as healer and spotter for the rest....
  • chuckandcotton
    71 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    The #1 problem is the broken mess of frostbite.
  • CHAMMOND1992
    1091 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Let's merge all of youtubers thoughts in one mega thread.
  • DukeSan27
    1154 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    How many people did not buy the game or stopped playing because of the women, fancy cosmetics issues, etc etc?

    And how many quit because of the bugs due to the half-baked design/implementation?

    The first question is just all hot gas no substance.
  • SirTerrible
    1689 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 12
    well if i remember it correctly most of these game-changers wanted most of the features (removing of spotting/more realistic visibility/ more HC gun-play/ attrition/...)
    and now that its very apparent that these mechanics dont really translate well into BF at all (at least most of them) they try and blame it on DICE excuse me WTF?!
    DICE surely screwed up big time again with BFV no questions about that but they played a role in all that we should not be underestimating.
    BF4 had performance issues but the core game was good overall.
    BFV has horrible core design-flaws and bad performance on top so i don't really understand why everyone says after we get more content the game will be golden.....
    every possible balance aspect of BFV is meh at best. (team-balance/gadget balance/animations/vehicle-balance/sound-design/map-design/weapon-balance/class-balance/faction-balance/visibility/optical-balance(3x scopes are literally a no-brainer at this point if you can put it on)/UI is laughable at best/...../
    i mean there are without a doubt two classes in the game that have absurd amounts of versatility in all fields and on top great and powerful gadgets. then there is recon and medic struggeling to find their purpose beyond their individual role as healer and spotter for the rest....
    Amen to this. Some of these guys still won't even say that attrition, visibility, etc are the main issues with the current crap gameplay (from an infantry standpoint at least). Lets be real, the engagements per minute are way down in this game compared to BF1 and such leading to one heck of a boring one dimensional game. There's little to no doubt that it's the visibility, attrition, map design, and gun design that are primarily responsible for this. People can only take getting shot at from god knows where for so long before they adapt to a slower style of play.
  • BaronVonGoon
    6731 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 12
    You know something is wrong when even the most positive, least critical YouTubers chime in on the current state of the game.
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