Weekly Debrief

ban mouse and keyboard

Comments

  • Pelliy
    2228 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 25
    Lol and now i’m getting accused of using MnK myself!
    Absolutely pathetic, guys. Just because I have a different point of view, all of a sudden i’m cheater.

    I must be the only person who enjoys playing battlefield on console. It seems like all of you should stop playing if it winds you up so much.

    The advantage is minimal. See what I wrote there? Minimal. Not minute (as somebody claimed I said).

    There are not that many good MnK players to make this an issue you will run into every game. There just isn’t.
    So your poor excuses for why you died just don’t wash with me. Sorry.

    Stop blaming others and you’ll enjoy the game far more.
    You shouldn't take the cheating offense.  We're not even debating cheating. That's somewhat another discussion. 

    I guess we'll agree to disagree on it being an significant advantage. The devs disagree with you, the numbers, etc. 

    But I will agree with you on one, I don't do think most people are spending money to buy a $100+ peripheral that's not merely plug and play. 
  • Lancelot_du_Lac
    34 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Do Sony and Microsoft see an advantage in making M&K native? IMHO, a resounding yes!
    As consoles become more powerful/better graphics, more PC users will consider switching. If I were an executive for the aforementioned companies, and the main barrier is people who prefer to use a controller, I'd make M&K native in a heartbeat.
    Downside - not much. Controller users will grumble, but where are they going to go?
  • Pelliy
    2228 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    I get accused of “changing the goalposts” when I try to give further reason for my thoughts.

    If I just said the same thing each time you would claim I was just repeating myself.

    My argument gets called “nonsensical” when all I am suggesting is that this issue isn’t as big as everybody makes out. Yet I have somebody who tells me that “you can turn faster but you can’t turn faster”.
    Further yet I have people telling me to go try PC. What? This is about MnK on console. Not mouse on PC. They are not equal.


    Two people of equal fun skill can be split with who’s got the best strategy.

    But let’s just throw all other skills apart from run and gun out the window so that the only thing that matters is can aim faster.

    MnK gives you zero strategy advantage
    MnK gives you no team bonuses.
    MnK does not communicate for you

    But hey, i’ “changing the goalposts” again so I must be wrong.
    Parsing words, Minimal/minute are synonyms. Both indicating that it has a negligible advantageous, which what you were arguing.

    Aiming more consistently allows you to execute the strategy. That's like saying well, shooting a basketball doesn't matter if its about strategy, but if you could shoot 50% from three using special shoes, some people would do that. shooting 3's consistently can be significant  improvement. No one is arguing that it will make you a god. 

    But I guess we'll agree to disagree. 



  • Turban_Legend80
    4601 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    Pelliy wrote: »
    Turban_Legend80 said:
    I get accused of “changing the goalposts” when I try to give further reason for my thoughts.



    If I just said the same thing each time you would claim I was just repeating myself.



    My argument gets called “nonsensical” when all I am suggesting is that this issue isn’t as big as everybody makes out. Yet I have somebody who tells me that “you can turn faster but you can’t turn faster”.

    Further yet I have people telling me to go try PC. What? This is about MnK on console. Not mouse on PC. They are not equal.





    Two people of equal fun skill can be split with who’s got the best strategy.



    But let’s just throw all other skills apart from run and gun out the window so that the only thing that matters is can aim faster.



    MnK gives you zero strategy advantage

    MnK gives you no team bonuses.

    MnK does not communicate for you



    But hey, i’ “changing the goalposts” again so I must be wrong.

    Parsing words, Minimal/minute are synonyms. Both indicating that it has a negligible advantageous, which what you were arguing.

    Aiming more consistently allows you to execute the strategy. That's like saying well, shooting a basketball doesn't matter if its about strategy, but if you could shoot 50% from three using special shoes, some people would do that. shooting 3's consistently can be significant  improvement. No one is arguing that it will make you a god. 

    But I guess we'll agree to disagree. 



    Fair point about minimal/minute. I do actually think the advantages are negligible, because I have never once thought i’ve been dominated by somebody using MnK.

    Wearing top notch basketball shoes will not make you run better plays. Even if it’s just the coach wearing the shoes.

    A good strategy puts you in optimal position for the next engagement. If every engagement you are in is a 50/50 then your strategy is mediocre.

    Some people prefer to run, gun and rely on their twitch responses.

    Some people prefer to flank, defend etc.

    I can agree that MnK is a larger advantage for the first type of players. But you can negate the advantage by using a better strategy.

    Thanks for at least trying to discuss this in a reasonable manner 👍🏻
  • DogRoyal
    102 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Do Sony and Microsoft see an advantage in making M&K native? IMHO, a resounding yes!
    As consoles become more powerful/better graphics, more PC users will consider switching. If I were an executive for the aforementioned companies, and the main barrier is people who prefer to use a controller, I'd make M&K native in a heartbeat.
    Downside - not much. Controller users will grumble, but where are they going to go?

    Exactly, they have a massive advantage in making it easy for PC-gamers to switch over. Also, the xim's or whatever they are called are getting better and better bringing even more motivation for PC players to consider the switch. Hell, you can already plug your keybord directly into PS4 and navigate the system menues and as far as i know also play some games but then it is not Microsoft or Sony, but instead the developers of the games that are deciding if it works native on their particular game?
  • Pelliy
    2228 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Pelliy wrote: »
    OskooI_007 wrote: »
    XIM is 1:1 unless you move the mouse too fast. PC is always 1:1 no matter how fast you move the mouse.

    And yes, it's very easy to exceed max turn speed using a mouse on XIM.

    Than it's not really 1:1 then.

    It's not 1:1 for sure. But having used both Xim and real mouse PC, I can safely say if you adjust and fine tune the Xim you'll aim very effectively and dominate controller users. A seasoned PC mouse user can tell right away that there's some input lag, stuttering and pixel skipping. But it's very minor and can be easily 'forgotten' if you give it time to get used. On console you don't need real mouse to dominate controller users, Xim does a good job. Not to mention that if you combine it with 'Slowdown' aim assist you effectively become more accurate than on PC with real mouse but no slowdown aim assist.
    Indeed. I have no doubt that its advantageous to use it.
  • e-Sparta_Rambo
    461 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Pelliy wrote: »
    BaronVonGoon said:


    Pelliy wrote: »


    OskooI_007 wrote: »
    XIM is 1:1 unless you move the mouse too fast. PC is always 1:1 no matter how fast you move the mouse.



    And yes, it's very easy to exceed max turn speed using a mouse on XIM.



    Than it's not really 1:1 then.



    It's not 1:1 for sure. But having used both Xim and real mouse PC, I can safely say if you adjust and fine tune the Xim you'll aim very effectively and dominate controller users. A seasoned PC mouse user can tell right away that there's some input lag, stuttering and pixel skipping. But it's very minor and can be easily 'forgotten' if you give it time to get used. On console you don't need real mouse to dominate controller users, Xim does a good job. Not to mention that if you combine it with 'Slowdown' aim assist you effectively become more accurate than on PC with real mouse but no slowdown aim assist.

    Indeed. I have no doubt that its advantageous to use it.

    Just looking at competitive players from GUS, 2ezy, Venom etc, as far as I know all of those guys are using DS4, and has no issue to take a dump on MnK users on console. It takes time, skill, practice to get good. Most arabs are using mnk but I ve never had issue to dominate them with DS4 or the pathetic Tac Hori. Not once I blamed someones input device for my death because I know I ve been outplayed because my foe had tactical edge in said situation.
  • dayglowfroggy
    504 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I will be disappointed if the next gen xbox is not mnk enabled and the next bf game does not support it. I have to use a xim at the moment and its ok I feel it just about puts me on an even keel with people who have been using controller s all their life.
    I am totally rubbish with a controller its my aim not my game sense and strategy that's the same regardless of imput device.
    It s very frustrating not being able to line up shots properly or sneaking up behind People for a great flank to find you miss and they kill you all because I just don't have enough dexterity in my thumbs.

    Maybe it's age 43 and years of powertools but I just had enough in the end and accepted I will never be any good with a controller I recommend getting a xim if you are on a similar situation.

    I don't think they have this sort of discussion on car racing game forums about steering wheels.
  • TyroneLoyd_TV
    1384 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 25
    I will be disappointed if the next gen xbox is not mnk enabled and the next bf game does not support it. I have to use a xim at the moment and its ok I feel it just about puts me on an even keel with people who have been using controller s all their life.
    I am totally rubbish with a controller its my aim not my game sense and strategy that's the same regardless of imput device.
    It s very frustrating not being able to line up shots properly or sneaking up behind People for a great flank to find you miss and they kill you all because I just don't have enough dexterity in my thumbs.

    Maybe it's age 43 and years of powertools but I just had enough in the end and accepted I will never be any good with a controller I recommend getting a xim if you are on a similar situation.

    I don't think they have this sort of discussion on car racing game forums about steering wheels.

    Steering wheels are a bit different when it comes to full sims or what we call alot of them on console simcades. Steering wheels provide more feedback to the user and road feel depending on the type of base. In simcades like gran turismo sport controllers are optimized to be just as quick if not a few tenths slower than a wheel due to the limited physics calculations that are set and overall feel of control. Since you have to relay on a flick to counter steer at times it can become inconsistent as tires wear and fuel becomes low(less weight). Wheels on the other hand can provide the individual a more consistent experience which will also give the potential of a more consistent lap times. This means overall you will be faster. Full Sims do provide controller support BUT due to the nature of physics on pc you're at a large advantage using a wheel. Example could easily be like iracing.

    The reason they don't discuss this much compared to mk is because they are mostly supported on all platforms and its widely known that they are way more consistent. Just the way it is. Not much to agree over I guess.

    I race competitivly in iracing in a fairly large Indy car league. Fun stuff
  • Pelliy
    2228 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Pelliy wrote: »
    BaronVonGoon said:


    Pelliy wrote: »


    OskooI_007 wrote: »
    XIM is 1:1 unless you move the mouse too fast. PC is always 1:1 no matter how fast you move the mouse.



    And yes, it's very easy to exceed max turn speed using a mouse on XIM.



    Than it's not really 1:1 then.



    It's not 1:1 for sure. But having used both Xim and real mouse PC, I can safely say if you adjust and fine tune the Xim you'll aim very effectively and dominate controller users. A seasoned PC mouse user can tell right away that there's some input lag, stuttering and pixel skipping. But it's very minor and can be easily 'forgotten' if you give it time to get used. On console you don't need real mouse to dominate controller users, Xim does a good job. Not to mention that if you combine it with 'Slowdown' aim assist you effectively become more accurate than on PC with real mouse but no slowdown aim assist.

    Indeed. I have no doubt that its advantageous to use it.

    Just looking at competitive players from GUS, 2ezy, Venom etc, as far as I know all of those guys are using DS4, and has no issue to take a dump on MnK users on console. It takes time, skill, practice to get good. Most arabs are using mnk but I ve never had issue to dominate them with DS4 or the pathetic Tac Hori. Not once I blamed someones input device for my death because I know I ve been outplayed because my foe had tactical edge in said situation.
    Yes, lets make it fair to compare the 0.1% to the rest of the average userbase. Come on man. 

    In any case, I actually agree with what that guy said, that it's probably more exaggerated than believed. I think you'll find more xim users in COD because there are online tournaments that have money involved. Incentive.

    I don't expect an avg mnk user to beat an elite player that uses a controller. I never said that. I said it offers a significant advantage. Significance is relative to the skillset. Someone brought up an example of a guy going 25-12 or whatever number  it was on COD to going 48-10. That's a significant improvement. He increased his actions per min, kill per min by using the adapter. a 23 kill improvement. 

    He's not a god. going 48-10 doesn't make you a pro. Doesn't make you Elite. but getting 23 more kills is a significant improvement, don't you think?

    If I can go from 1.3 kpm to going to 1.7, that's not significant?
  • Ferdinand_J_Foch
    3395 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Mouse is clearly superior to controller. All you have to do is play on both console and PC. PC players are so much more deadly than console players. Really all you have to do is play on both and it becomes very clear. Nothing against console users and I was one for years, it's not the player it's the input device. PC really challenges you and makes you a better player because the level of play in general is higher, much faster and everyone aims better.
    I'd say the same. I too was a console user for years, but it's so much easier to aim with a mouse.

    I've seen so many console clips where one guy kills a group of enemies who seemingly cannot react ... it's much harder to find people that dim on PC. Then again, the PC platform has it's own issues ... software glitches, OS problems, cheaters, silliness in game chats ... there's a lot of nonsense to deal with, whereas on console, you just put a disc in and start playing.

    Just a few days ago, my GeForce Experience stopped working ... I had to try all sorts of workarounds before one of them worked. I have to go into NVIDIA's Control Panel to do small tricks just to get a decent framerate for BFV, alongside the user.cfg that I've made. Steam randomly decides to freeze from time to time. A Windows update could cause a massive meltdown ... one of my friends got an Insider Version of W10 that started deleting his personal data out of nowhere. A game fails to install for some seemingly obscure reason. There's so many things that can, and will, go horribly wrong without any forewarning.

    Console life seemed so much easier.
  • Ferdinand_J_Foch
    3395 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member

    I race competitivly in iracing in a fairly large Indy car league. Fun stuff
    I offer my condolences to your wallet.

    On a more serious side, it's interesting seeing simracers here. I left simracing after some particularly obnoxious community drama, mostly caused by Project CARS, but I still keep an eye on things from time to time.
  • dayglowfroggy
    504 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Isle of man ride on the edge is my other game when not playing bf.
    never even met another player but the game is amazing it's more simulator than game, I have to have most of the easy settings on.
    check it out.
    back on topic I spent allot of time looking for a realist motorbike controller for that game, didn't really find anything reasonably priced.
  • e-Sparta_Rambo
    461 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Pelliy wrote: »
    e-Sparta_Rambo said:


    Pelliy wrote: »
    BaronVonGoon said:





    Pelliy wrote: »





    OskooI_007 wrote: »

    XIM is 1:1 unless you move the mouse too fast. PC is always 1:1 no matter how fast you move the mouse.







    And yes, it's very easy to exceed max turn speed using a mouse on XIM.







    Than it's not really 1:1 then.







    It's not 1:1 for sure. But having used both Xim and real mouse PC, I can safely say if you adjust and fine tune the Xim you'll aim very effectively and dominate controller users. A seasoned PC mouse user can tell right away that there's some input lag, stuttering and pixel skipping. But it's very minor and can be easily 'forgotten' if you give it time to get used. On console you don't need real mouse to dominate controller users, Xim does a good job. Not to mention that if you combine it with 'Slowdown' aim assist you effectively become more accurate than on PC with real mouse but no slowdown aim assist.



    Indeed. I have no doubt that its advantageous to use it.



    Just looking at competitive players from GUS, 2ezy, Venom etc, as far as I know all of those guys are using DS4, and has no issue to take a dump on MnK users on console. It takes time, skill, practice to get good. Most arabs are using mnk but I ve never had issue to dominate them with DS4 or the pathetic Tac Hori. Not once I blamed someones input device for my death because I know I ve been outplayed because my foe had tactical edge in said situation.

    Yes, lets make it fair to compare the 0.1% to the rest of the average userbase. Come on man. 

    In any case, I actually agree with what that guy said, that it's probably more exaggerated than believed. I think you'll find more xim users in COD because there are online tournaments that have money involved. Incentive.

    I don't expect an avg mnk user to beat an elite player that uses a controller. I never said that. I said it offers a significant advantage. Significance is relative to the skillset. Someone brought up an example of a guy going 25-12 or whatever number  it was on COD to going 48-10. That's a significant improvement. He increased his actions per min, kill per min by using the adapter. a 23 kill improvement. 

    He's not a god. going 48-10 doesn't make you a pro. Doesn't make you Elite. but getting 23 more kills is a significant improvement, don't you think?

    If I can go from 1.3 kpm to going to 1.7, that's not significant?

    I wouldnt call this a fair comparison. I had games where I was pub stacked by pro wannabe randies and barely broke even, and next round with 2 decent players on my team i went 45-2 against same team. What I am saying is new round different story. When i bought tac hori pro the first round I went 105-21 (Domination BF4), and since then I struggled to get up to 80 kills per round, same with Xim4 when i had it for a month, you would say thats a lot of kills for a small game mode, but I broke 100s with DS4 so many times that I have lost count, and I am not a good player, just above average.

    And you also contradicting yourself by saying average mnk user will not beat mlg pro elite controller user. If MnK offered and I quote "significant advantage" then every average Joe would take a dump on pro controller users.
  • OskooI_007
    793 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    If mouse doesn't offer a significant advantage, then why do developers matchmake controller and mouse players into separate servers?
  • ackers75
    2395 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    If you can’t go on a wrecking spree with kB/m with aim assist I suggest you give up gaming and try knitting
  • TyroneLoyd_TV
    1384 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    OskooI_007 wrote: »
    If mouse doesn't offer a significant advantage, then why do developers matchmake controller and mouse players into separate servers?
    OskooI_007 wrote: »
    If mouse doesn't offer a significant advantage, then why do developers matchmake controller and mouse players into separate servers?
    OskooI_007 wrote: »
    If mouse doesn't offer a significant advantage, then why do developers matchmake controller and mouse players into separate servers?

    "Because it's not hurr durr"

    Sigh this is getting old fairly quickly.
  • BaronVonGoon
    6783 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 25
    BaronVonGoon said:
    Mouse is clearly superior to controller. All you have to do is play on both console and PC. PC players are so much more deadly than console players. Really all you have to do is play on both and it becomes very clear. Nothing against console users and I was one for years, it's not the player it's the input device. PC really challenges you and makes you a better player because the level of play in general is higher, much faster and everyone aims better.

    I'd say the same. I too was a console user for years, but it's so much easier to aim with a mouse.

    I've seen so many console clips where one guy kills a group of enemies who seemingly cannot react ... it's much harder to find people that dim on PC. Then again, the PC platform has it's own issues ... software glitches, OS problems, cheaters, silliness in game chats ... there's a lot of nonsense to deal with, whereas on console, you just put a disc in and start playing.

    Just a few days ago, my GeForce Experience stopped working ... I had to try all sorts of workarounds before one of them worked. I have to go into NVIDIA's Control Panel to do small tricks just to get a decent framerate for BFV, alongside the user.cfg that I've made. Steam randomly decides to freeze from time to time. A Windows update could cause a massive meltdown ... one of my friends got an Insider Version of W10 that started deleting his personal data out of nowhere. A game fails to install for some seemingly obscure reason. There's so many things that can, and will, go horribly wrong without any forewarning.

    Console life seemed so much easier.

    Absolutely. For me console was more fun too. If not for getting used to framerates I would've sold my PC and got back to console. Alot less issues to deal with and less frustrating moments.
    ackers75 wrote: »
    If you can’t go on a wrecking spree with kB/m with aim assist I suggest you give up gaming and try knitting

    Maybe in BF1. But from my experience the ttk in BFV makes it so the wrecking sprees for mnk users on console occur much less frequently in BFV. I have many screenshots of cql rounds in BF1 where I would go 75+ kills and 10 deaths. I never went over 60 kills in BFV on console and rarely went over 40.
  • The_BERG_366
    2345 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    BaronVonGoon said:
    Mouse is clearly superior to controller. All you have to do is play on both console and PC. PC players are so much more deadly than console players. Really all you have to do is play on both and it becomes very clear. Nothing against console users and I was one for years, it's not the player it's the input device. PC really challenges you and makes you a better player because the level of play in general is higher, much faster and everyone aims better.

    I'd say the same. I too was a console user for years, but it's so much easier to aim with a mouse.

    I've seen so many console clips where one guy kills a group of enemies who seemingly cannot react ... it's much harder to find people that dim on PC. Then again, the PC platform has it's own issues ... software glitches, OS problems, cheaters, silliness in game chats ... there's a lot of nonsense to deal with, whereas on console, you just put a disc in and start playing.

    Just a few days ago, my GeForce Experience stopped working ... I had to try all sorts of workarounds before one of them worked. I have to go into NVIDIA's Control Panel to do small tricks just to get a decent framerate for BFV, alongside the user.cfg that I've made. Steam randomly decides to freeze from time to time. A Windows update could cause a massive meltdown ... one of my friends got an Insider Version of W10 that started deleting his personal data out of nowhere. A game fails to install for some seemingly obscure reason. There's so many things that can, and will, go horribly wrong without any forewarning.

    Console life seemed so much easier.

    Absolutely. For me console was more fun too. If not for getting used to framerates I would've sold my PC and got back to console. Alot less issues to deal with and less frustrating moments.
    ackers75 wrote: »
    If you can’t go on a wrecking spree with kB/m with aim assist I suggest you give up gaming and try knitting

    Maybe in BF1. But from my experience the ttk in BFV makes it so the wrecking sprees for mnk users on console occur much less frequently in BFV. I have many screenshots of cql rounds in BF1 where I would go 75+ kills and 10 deaths. I never went over 60 kills in BFV on console and rarely went over 40.
    what has the ttk to do with wrecking sprees for mnk users on console specifically? why does the same not apply to controller users?

    also you went from playing emulated mnk vs mostly controller users (i btw think the number of mnk users is a lot smaller than some people think) to play native mnk vs native mnk and sometimes cheaters (i would assume). if anything your experience indicates that your use of mnk on console really did have more than a marginal impact. 
  • Pelliy
    2228 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Pelliy wrote: »
    e-Sparta_Rambo said:


    Pelliy wrote: »
    BaronVonGoon said:





    Pelliy wrote: »





    OskooI_007 wrote: »

    XIM is 1:1 unless you move the mouse too fast. PC is always 1:1 no matter how fast you move the mouse.







    And yes, it's very easy to exceed max turn speed using a mouse on XIM.







    Than it's not really 1:1 then.







    It's not 1:1 for sure. But having used both Xim and real mouse PC, I can safely say if you adjust and fine tune the Xim you'll aim very effectively and dominate controller users. A seasoned PC mouse user can tell right away that there's some input lag, stuttering and pixel skipping. But it's very minor and can be easily 'forgotten' if you give it time to get used. On console you don't need real mouse to dominate controller users, Xim does a good job. Not to mention that if you combine it with 'Slowdown' aim assist you effectively become more accurate than on PC with real mouse but no slowdown aim assist.



    Indeed. I have no doubt that its advantageous to use it.



    Just looking at competitive players from GUS, 2ezy, Venom etc, as far as I know all of those guys are using DS4, and has no issue to take a dump on MnK users on console. It takes time, skill, practice to get good. Most arabs are using mnk but I ve never had issue to dominate them with DS4 or the pathetic Tac Hori. Not once I blamed someones input device for my death because I know I ve been outplayed because my foe had tactical edge in said situation.

    Yes, lets make it fair to compare the 0.1% to the rest of the average userbase. Come on man. 

    In any case, I actually agree with what that guy said, that it's probably more exaggerated than believed. I think you'll find more xim users in COD because there are online tournaments that have money involved. Incentive.

    I don't expect an avg mnk user to beat an elite player that uses a controller. I never said that. I said it offers a significant advantage. Significance is relative to the skillset. Someone brought up an example of a guy going 25-12 or whatever number  it was on COD to going 48-10. That's a significant improvement. He increased his actions per min, kill per min by using the adapter. a 23 kill improvement. 

    He's not a god. going 48-10 doesn't make you a pro. Doesn't make you Elite. but getting 23 more kills is a significant improvement, don't you think?

    If I can go from 1.3 kpm to going to 1.7, that's not significant?

    I wouldnt call this a fair comparison. I had games where I was pub stacked by pro wannabe randies and barely broke even, and next round with 2 decent players on my team i went 45-2 against same team. What I am saying is new round different story. When i bought tac hori pro the first round I went 105-21 (Domination BF4), and since then I struggled to get up to 80 kills per round, same with Xim4 when i had it for a month, you would say thats a lot of kills for a small game mode, but I broke 100s with DS4 so many times that I have lost count, and I am not a good player, just above average.

    And you also contradicting yourself by saying average mnk user will not beat mlg pro elite controller user. If MnK offered and I quote "significant advantage" then every average Joe would take a dump on pro controller users.

    It is a fair comparison. I'm sorry you don't see it that way, but it is.

    You on the other hand are comparing elite players to avg players while I'm comparing individual progress of players.

    And no an avg mnk user on console shouldn't beat a pro console player using a controller. What contradicting am I saying here? Significance does not indicate GOD STATUS. No one here has advocate that using a xim makes you A a GOD. You and others are strawmanning the argument.

    Again, significance is relative to the skill. If I'm able to increase my individual stats my kpm, my actions per min using a xim, thats significant! It doesn't mean I'll be able to beat elite players.

    Going from a 1.3kpm to a 1.7 does not make someone elite. I said that. But it shows that personal ability with a controller was limited. The skill ceiling was limited. .40kpm increase is HUGE. It may not look like that. A 1.7 isn't elite. I have a 1.7 and the difference between playing even a 1.9 player vs me is a significant difference.

    Imagine being .40kpm Lower.

    Your reasoning for this makes no sense. If you can elaborate on it, I'd love to hear it but trawmanning my argument and implying that mnk makes people gods wont be a good argument. Because I never said that.
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