Another Unpopular Opinion.

Comments

  • Foxassassin
    260 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited August 2019
    ShevermiN said:
    Well if you owned  the game you would see that most of the complaints about the visibility in game are a tad overstated. Yes it's not as easy to spot people ingame because they removed some of the cheesy spotting from BF4. Because you couldn't see them in BF4 either you were just shooting dorito's or using the infared, thermal scopes. 

    Unless you spend time in the game, basing your opinions on those that spam the forums and you tube is not a good way to educate yourself.  

    I'm quite sure those making the game play the game because I do and I find most of the complaints and comments in the forums are just cut and past from tubers and streamers,  it's quite sad really.

    People hiding in cover are hard to see, maybe stop running around like  an idiot in a combat zone and you will die a little less.  


    Hi,
    Thanks for your opinion on whether visibility is overstated. 

    Not here to "educate" myself - this is a forum for discussion. Thanks for your input. 

    Regards,
    Shadders_X. 
    "Forums for discussion" Is that why you responded in a manner to avoid discussion?

    Sure Shever was being condescending ,but he stated his opinion,you stated yours. Instead of you know,discussing it,you take a route to avoid a true response


  • Shadders_X
    486 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    ShevermiN said:
    Well if you owned  the game you would see that most of the complaints about the visibility in game are a tad overstated. Yes it's not as easy to spot people ingame because they removed some of the cheesy spotting from BF4. Because you couldn't see them in BF4 either you were just shooting dorito's or using the infared, thermal scopes. 

    Unless you spend time in the game, basing your opinions on those that spam the forums and you tube is not a good way to educate yourself.  

    I'm quite sure those making the game play the game because I do and I find most of the complaints and comments in the forums are just cut and past from tubers and streamers,  it's quite sad really.

    People hiding in cover are hard to see, maybe stop running around like  an idiot in a combat zone and you will die a little less.  


    Hi,
    Thanks for your opinion on whether visibility is overstated. 

    Not here to "educate" myself - this is a forum for discussion. Thanks for your input. 

    Regards,
    Shadders_X. 
    "Forums for discussion" Is that why you responded in a manner to avoid discussion?

    Sure Shever was being condescending ,but he stated his opinion,you stated yours. Instead of you know,discussing it,you take a route to avoid a true response


    Hi,
    The person stated his opinion, and i accept that he stated his opinion. I disagree - so where to next ? 
    Regards,
    Shadders_X. 
  • disposalist
    9009 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member

    disposalist said:
    If losing prone would make players leave, they aren't players we would miss.
    This is the sort of arrogantly worded comment that I would expect from those who think their ideas are completely sound and justified. For the sake of a so-called 'better' experience? Better for them and stuff everyone else eh?
    Let me offer a counter opinion on the types of players I wouldn't miss- Anyone who consistently (<-- key word there) calls for nerfs or the removal of mechanics, because they get killed by (insert melodramatic cause) too often. Or in other words, they are bad sports who can't handle defeat.

    No, not better for them and stuff everyone else.  Better for the game and stuff anyone who is so invested in one particular mechanic that they would leave the game if it were removed.

    It's nothing to do with calling for a nerf of something that gets me killed.  If all I was interested in was winning or getting kills I'd just camp prone with an LMG, but it's boring.  I don't want boring games.  I don't care about stats or losing, I just don't want the boring experience that you get from prone camping being such a viable and profitable meta that so many people do it that the game becomes less fun.

    Yeah some people are bad sports who are melodramatic over something that kills them.  Some are arrogant.  Some call for nerfs often.  That doesn't stop them being right about some issues though.
  • Jeffmaxs6
    234 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member

    I haven't seen any bugs, but when I tried aiming with a MMG I thought I found my first bug. Glad I figure it out, before I started trouble shooting. I see people drop down to prone and do well, but I don't care I'm not playing like that.




  • DasScharminkel
    78 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    "camping is the last resort of the unskilled and no "tactic". like crossing your arms over your head aint no tactic when you get beaten into a pulp by an superior opponent".

    Oh!! Onother joke!!! Lol!!!
    you need to speak up, i can´t hear you from up here, all the way down there in the dust.

  • DasScharminkel
    78 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited August 2019

    Triedsaying that earlier,in another post I believe. One of the responces was baffling "Checking corners sounds just as campy".


    Just go play CoD,or Quake or Unreal.
    in that sequence and how you wrote it, yeah i stick to my sentence.
    have you ever seen one of the pro´s resort to camping corners, slowing down or proning across the map ? no ? me neither. and personally i like the pace of the game how it looks when i watch them play rather than some unskilled dude laying on his belly all day, thinking he´s achieving anything of worth.

    i don´t promote rushing headless into a room full of enemies but i feel disgusted if the answer to someone sweeping a room of say 5 guys only to be killed by one coward on the other side, face down in the dirt. was it effective, yeah, was it "skilled" no. if thats your only answer to someone dancing circles around you otherwise i wouldn´t be particularly proud of the outcome.

    but here we are again debating what is skill and i am far to stubborn to move an inch from my idea of it :)

    as far as the second point of my quote, fellow internet stranger, let me be brutally honest with you, for nothing will affect my playstyle in any way after 25 years of gaming, much less my opinion on games and their players :
    because i´m just not good enough anymore to compete in quake and unreal. blame it on age, occupation, lack of 10 hours training time a day, take your pick.
    still i like to remain in my comfort zone and play the style i´m used to for 2 decades.
    i had my success with it when i was younger, i prevailed in competitions and friendly matches alike and while i can´t achieve the same level of skill anymore i had 10 years back, i still want to cling on the same level of success and feel of achievement.
    honest enough ? =)
    as for camping and campers, anything that gets in the way of frantic and fast past gaming is  a sort of camping to me in various degrees. not saying that camping in a corner isn´t effective at times, it´s just not elegant and inspiring compared to some movement artistics the pro´s display all day long.
    Post edited by DasScharminkel on
  • JUJAMAKILL
    331 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    JUJAMAKILL wrote: »
    OMG is there anything that shouldn't be nerfed into oblivion or out right removed in this game? Any game? Can people not handle losing to another player that badly? 

    Pro Tip: Next time you load up BFV, just sit and stare at the loading screen for the rest of the night. That way you won't have to deal with prone players, MMG's, snipers, planes, campers and all the other things that make people so salty. Sounds like fun right?

    I imagine it would be about as much fun as the rest of us would have trying to play the left over remains of what ever hollowed out experience you guys would deem 'acceptable' in a FPS, if the devs were to cater their game specifically to those who think ideas like this are valid solutions.

    disposalist said:
    If losing prone would make players leave, they aren't players we would miss.

    This is the sort of arrogantly worded comment that I would expect from those who think their ideas are completely sound and justified. For the sake of a so-called 'better' experience? Better for them and stuff everyone else eh?
    Let me offer a counter opinion on the types of players I wouldn't miss- Anyone who consistently (<-- key word there) calls for nerfs or the removal of mechanics, because they get killed by (insert melodramatic cause) too often. Or in other words, they are bad sports who can't handle defeat.

    @ OP, I will give you this. I will agree that they should remove the ability to prone on your back, especially when it allows you to roll around with a perfectly deployed bipod with no accuracy penalty. But not for the same reason as you. I don't care whether or not someone camps. I have more of an issue with the fact that these players blend in too well with downed players, making it too difficult to distinguish if they are a threat or not. AFAIK the only difference in the these rolling around animations is that one of them has a gun pointed at me, and I cannot tell if someone is actually aiming at me or not in this state.

    Now tell me, if we were to remove the prone on your back stance, would that be enough of a compromise? 
    Don't worry, that's rhetorical. I already know the answer.



    Someone prones hardcore. Dust of your belly soldier.
    Bwahahaha... You know it's funny that I was contemplating ending my post with a snarky comment along the lines of leaving so people can assume my class and preferred style of gameplay. However I decided that some may construe it as 'baiting and left it out. Turns out I didn't need it after all. 

    I am not ashamed to admit that my main class for the first 6-7mths was recon with the sniper role. However I object to your assumption of being a hardcore proner. One of the most agonizing experiences I have had in this game was getting the 10 headshots while prone in one life for my rifle. Contrary to your expectations, I was not out on the fringe of the map when I achieved this goal. The map was aerodrome, game mode breakthrough, and I was on the damn point (D flag if it was conquest)as an attacker the whole time. I was prone with my KAR98K and 3x scope, between the pile of dirt and the bundle of steel sleepers just behind the water tower. It was hectic, constantly trying to pop all those little bobbleheads as they ran up the dirt ramp from the back hangars as they tried to take back the point. Yes, I had a squad of friends who did a great job of keeping me resupplied and revived me many times before I finally got it.

    My point is, just because I am against the idea of allowing players to prone, does not mean that I rely on it. That's just a stereotypical opinion you have formed of me. Prone sure does have its uses, like being able to crawl through to a point undetected or take cover in a ditch when your stuck in the open with no other cover available whilst MMG's rain hell down on you. But TBH, I think that players who prefer to go prone are putting themselves at a severe disadvantage. I almost never go prone due to the lack of mobility and lack of visual awareness. IMO it is much easier to sidestep out from the side of a building to fire off a few cheeky snipes, rather than pin myself to the ground with incredibly slow movement speed and a restricted field of view. Then again, I value exciting in your face gameplay, even though I run a BA.

    Let's be honest, the majority of those snipers who camp out on the fringe of the map 200m+ from the objective are pretty harmless. Sure they might be annoying and get a few kills but they aren't topping the scoreboard, nor are they dominating in total kills due to the low magnification scopes and lead time they need to contend with. I hardly see how they are considered to be such a problem in game. Ignore them or take them out. Heh I will gladly waste a V1 rocket on a single fringe camper just to prove they aren't untouchable. Satisfying....

    As far as the prone mechanic being a cause of people refusing to PTFO, I can understand the frustration. However removal of the mechanic won't solve anything. You cannot force someone to PTFO no matter how much you try. These types of players have existed since the dawn of FPS and always will. It wouldn't matter what the incentives are. I do not want to see an important and useful ability to be removed in an effort to force objective play on those who have no interest in objective play what so ever. You know as well as I do that those players will just crouch in bushes or behind rocks instead right? Do we then take the next step by removing crouch while we are at it? Where does it stop?

    I'm someone who would advocate for allowing players to play how ever the hell they want to, short of cheating obviously. However, I also wouldn't be opposed to a system whereby the stat tracker doesn't kick in and track your progress (ie K/D, SPM, CAPS etc)  unless you have survived inside the cap radius for 10seconds at least every 5mins. 
      
    *Maybe even tie the ability to rank up so flags capped advance your progress in larger chunks than just score/kills. At least those who rely solely on kills rather than teamwork will take much longer to rank up and unlock stuff, than those who are actively contributing to the win.
    *That way you can choose to sit out on the fringes and snipe away for 5mins, before having to run in and assist on the point for a minimal amount of time otherwise all stats gained prior to this point don't count on the scoreboard or your in game profile.
    *If you die before completing the 10sec limit, it means you must go back the point when you respawn & fill the cap timer in order for your recent stats to track. If you fail to fulfill this requirement before the sector flips, you miss out. You had 5mins to complete it...
    *If you decide to say screw it, you can sit out there till your hearts content, however your in-game stats and ranking will reflect this. Not much bragging to be had by a 'camping sniper' who only has 15 total kills to their name.

    Obviously I don't have all the answers, but I imagine that something like this would be more of an incentive to the targeted player base (ie proning campers) than a detriment to those who already PTFO. Unlike the proposal to remove the ability to prone for all, whereby we all suffer for no good reason.

    @ProAssassin2003 Whilst I disagree with your portrayal of me I give you props for your sense of humour :)


  • JUJAMAKILL
    331 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member

    No, not better for them and stuff everyone else.  Better for the game and stuff anyone who is so invested in one particular mechanic that they would leave the game if it were removed.

    It's nothing to do with calling for a nerf of something that gets me killed.  If all I was interested in was winning or getting kills I'd just camp prone with an LMG, but it's boring.  I don't want boring games.  I don't care about stats or losing, I just don't want the boring experience that you get from prone camping being such a viable and profitable meta that so many people do it that the game becomes less fun.

    Yeah some people are bad sports who are melodramatic over something that kills them.  Some are arrogant.  Some call for nerfs often.  That doesn't stop them being right about some issues though.
    Props for your well reasoned post. FWIW my comment about the players I wouldn't miss wasn't directed at you. It might surprise you to know that I value the same style of gameplay as you do, and have agreed with you on several of your posts over time. I also think that prone camping would be boring as hell and yield lesser results than being active and mobile. I just feel that some times forum discussions on these sorts of topics jump from one extreme to another with no real consideration for the ACTUAL outcome. ie. I don't agree that the removal of prone will achieve or even improve the stated goals, but will be a detriment for all those who don't abuse the mechanic. 

    Fact is you cannot force someone to PTFO no matter how much I would like them to. And yes, I quite often get frustrated by team mates who refuse to do so and make it my mission to move them on by smoking them out or parking vehicles on top of them till they budge ;)

  • scottith
    62 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    ... remove this remove that.. neft this, stop that, this would work blah blah blah. you post alot of opinions clearly to start a pointless debt. You might as well be playing a FPS from 2001, the game wouldn't be better it would be more rubbish, boring and dated. We need new! More inovations more taking risks. Let's not de-evole gaming and make prone not a thing anymore just because some people don't like it.

    If you don't like it don't play it. I haven't for weeks.
  • disposalist
    9009 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    scottith said:
    ... remove this remove that.. neft this, stop that, this would work blah blah blah. you post alot of opinions clearly to start a pointless debt. You might as well be playing a FPS from 2001, the game wouldn't be better it would be more rubbish, boring and dated. We need new! More inovations more taking risks. Let's not de-evole gaming and make prone not a thing anymore just because some people don't like it.

    If you don't like it don't play it. I haven't for weeks.
    BF5 isn't 'new'. They've smashed together TTK from BF4 and bits of old hardcore and then dropped out a ton of stuff that was good in BF1.

    There is some new.  New netcode (that can't keep up with the TTK), new graphics (that are too cluttered and weird) and a new engine that makes vehicles bounce and shudder like they are in an earthquake and makes bushes bulletproof.  Etc.

    Oh, and a new battle royale game mode no core fan actually wanted.  Yay?

    They sure did take risks though.  Shame they didn't pay off.
  • trip1ex
    5332 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    I pretty much never go prone.  so i wouldn't notice if it was gone.


  • scottith
    62 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    (Quote)
    BF5 isn't 'new'. They've smashed together TTK from BF4 and bits of old hardcore and then dropped out a ton of stuff that was good in BF1.

    There is some new.  New netcode (that can't keep up with the TTK), new graphics (that are too cluttered and weird) and a new engine that makes vehicles bounce and shudder like they are in an earthquake and makes bushes bulletproof.  Etc.

    Oh, and a new battle royale game mode no core fan actually wanted.  Yay?

    They sure did take risks though.  Shame they didn't pay off.

    I didn't state bfv was new. But you can't deny they have been attempting to inovate the game. Ok it hasn't work and there are more problems than ever before but that's off the topic of should we get ride of prone. Which is a completely stupid and pointless idea.
  • DasScharminkel
    78 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    "You might as well be playing a FPS from 2001, the game wouldn't be better it would be more rubbish, boring and dated."

    matter of fact i do, quake live, former quake 3 and i have a blast with my buddies. newer stuff doesn´t equal more skilled or demanding / better. sure only a handful of people stick to those games, but boy oh boy you are in for a stomp if you play against them, for they´ve mastered their art and it´s a beauty to watch.
    and believe it or not, in the last 24 or so years there hasn´t been one pc of mine, where doom 1/2 (gzdoom with brutal doom mod now) wasn´t installed constantly and played regularly. so yeah, old games are sometimes better, old deathmatch can´t be reproduced nowadays anyhow, sadly.
  • Hawxxeye
    8039 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited August 2019
    bigiain said:
    If we get another proper Bad Company game, it might be a chance to go back to the no prone style. It seems like too drastic a measure here, you'd make a big chunk of players leave rather than improve, it's all they can do.

    The next game needs a lot of thought about avoiding what's happened here anyway. Far too many players really don't do much any more.
    If losing prone would make players leave, they aren't players we would miss.
    Missing prone would just make me spend even more time inside vehicles :P
    While I do not spend considerable amounts of time prone at the same spot, I do use it for sneaking around a flank or taking some over if there is nothing to hide behind.
  • CHAMMOND1992
    1411 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    bigiain said:
    If we get another proper Bad Company game, it might be a chance to go back to the no prone style. It seems like too drastic a measure here, you'd make a big chunk of players leave rather than improve, it's all they can do.

    The next game needs a lot of thought about avoiding what's happened here anyway. Far too many players really don't do much any more.
    If losing prone would make players leave, they aren't players we would miss.
    I'm guessing, "we" constitutes some majority in your head that doesn't exist in reality.
  • BGHFlakjacket
    1286 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Prone should never be taken out.  It should be implement correctly.
  • Jeffmaxs6
    234 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    edited August 2019
    "You might as well be playing a FPS from 2001, the game wouldn't be better it would be more rubbish, boring and dated."

    matter of fact i do, quake live, former quake 3 and i have a blast with my buddies. newer stuff doesn´t equal more skilled or demanding / better. sure only a handful of people stick to those games, but boy oh boy you are in for a stomp if you play against them, for they´ve mastered their art and it´s a beauty to watch.
    and believe it or not, in the last 24 or so years there hasn´t been one pc of mine, where doom 1/2 (gzdoom with brutal doom mod now) wasn´t installed constantly and played regularly. so yeah, old games are sometimes better, old deathmatch can´t be reproduced nowadays anyhow, sadly.

    Yeah UT99 would be the all time best DM game to me. I was thinking of installing Win10 to play some games, but maybe I'll install WinXP instead to play UT. Runs on my Win7 PC, just not as well as it did with XP. As for prone BF has been ruin since BF3.




  • DasScharminkel
    78 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Jeffmaxs6 said:
    "You might as well be playing a FPS from 2001, the game wouldn't be better it would be more rubbish, boring and dated."

    matter of fact i do, quake live, former quake 3 and i have a blast with my buddies. newer stuff doesn´t equal more skilled or demanding / better. sure only a handful of people stick to those games, but boy oh boy you are in for a stomp if you play against them, for they´ve mastered their art and it´s a beauty to watch.
    and believe it or not, in the last 24 or so years there hasn´t been one pc of mine, where doom 1/2 (gzdoom with brutal doom mod now) wasn´t installed constantly and played regularly. so yeah, old games are sometimes better, old deathmatch can´t be reproduced nowadays anyhow, sadly.

    Yeah UT99 would be the all time best DM game to me. I was thinking of installing Win10 to play some games, but maybe I'll install WinXP instead to play UT. Runs on my Win7 PC, just not as well as it did with XP. As for prone BF has been ruin since BF3.




    right in the feels, man, right in the feels. codex, agio, ctf comquest. we were "expelled" from certain lan competitions at times for 2 of us took apart whole teams in ctf and tdm. still got the old demos on cd somewhere.
    my soul burns with the rage of hell thinking they scrapped the new ut for the crap that is fartnite.
    i swear should i ever reproduce and see such a childish title instead of a proper arena shooter, i go skynet on his butt and alter time itself ;)

    as for good ol quake , qlive i think is about 10$ on steam and still my goto game for mouse calibrating.
  • SlowOldWarrior
    461 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Nope, I like proning despite bush wookies.  I also like vaulting - I see that as one of the only improvements over BF3/4, including graphics which moved forward for BF1, but took a much less realistic appearance in BF5.
  • talhaONE
    973 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Camping never was a problem. The only problem is Assault tryhards who rush someplace mindlessly and blame the game because not everyone prefers to rush like them.

    Visibility isnt a an issue either. You arent suppose see enemies easily through trees or grass. Just like in real life. It forces you to play smart and not rush whenerver you can.

    Removing prone will kill the diversity of game so it wont happen.
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