This Week in Battlefield V

what's stopping DICE from fixing Battlefield V? really?

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Tactical_wizzzeR
311 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
lack of programmers/designers? low morale? lack of funding?

i'll ask a different question:  what comes first? the chicken or the egg? the effort or the profit? well according to EA, profit comes first and with no profit there is no effort. now, say what you will about FIFA being monstreous cash cows, the technical support for those games are in a completely different level than Battlefield V... and it's no small part due to the massive playerbase the FIFA games have to support. it seems to me at least that EA don't see value in fixing Battlefield V, therefore don't allow DICE to allocate proper resources to support Battlefield V properly. they don't see how effort can earn them profit, the loop they see is: profit> effort> profit. they are waiting for us to spend money on microtransactions, which probably aren't balancing the bottom line for EA's shareholders.  don't know about you guys, I never spend a dime on microtransactions in this game since launch, the game didn't earn in, there was no effort.

I don't think after all these years DICE have actually become this incompetent, almost a year after a game's release, there is no way a game can be in such a poor state simply due to lack of programming and design skills. to me it seems like it's a systemic problem and EA's inablity to see long term goals in maintaining a game like Battlefield V.

Ubisoft understood the true value  in their games, and both Rainbow Six: Siege and For Honor are supported well, have managed to form a community/live service symbiosis that is mutually benefitial. what's even funnier that there is precedence for a comeback, in DICE's own history with both Battlefield 4 which was arguably in an even poorer state than Battlefield V is now, and more recently with Battlefront II. the difference might be, that those games sold relatively well, and met some quarterly goals for shareholders, while Battlefield V did not, herefore it doesn't get the same support.

what's worse for Battlefield V is that the fixes for the game are mostly well known, easily tracable, yet remain there for far longer than they would be in other games... and the community? it's never been this pessimistic about a Battlefield game like that before, and with good reason, we are almost a year into the game's live service and we see very little progress. there are people here who want to see this game die, whether it is in bad faith or from genuine vindictive disappointment, I don't quite remember such a constant feeling of hopelessness. think about it, Battlefield V was supposed to be THE return to the roots of Battlefield, it's WORLD WAR II, it's THE World war II game to play now, and this game, this monumentaly important game in maintaining not just the legacy of Battlefield, but the legacy of the greatest human conflict in history is such a whimper of a game. it's such a shame, because I do see and have always seen the potential in Battlefield V and deep down, I really do want this game to make it's grand comeback and prove everyone wrong.

instead it feels like we're in the endgame and that fantasy of Battlefield V's grand comeback in nothing but daydreaming. I even see more Battlefront II in the gaming news, as if DICE see that game more profitable in the long term, as if DICE will have abandon Battlefield V after Chapter 5, and not because they want to, but because they are not allowed to... 

Comments

  • meowkumf
    3 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I feel ya. I still play because its the best fps on the market imo. I just play less and less these days. Excitement and fun feelings are lower and lower. Depressing. Id hate to be a dice employee and read these forums. It would make me suicidal. All i can do is hold faith, cuz no one can make a great fps quite like dice
  • NuttysKunKs
    355 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    It isn’t 1 thing. It’s multiple.

    Lack of developers/buggy game engine = BFV.

    They are busy making BC3 for console 2020 release.
  • CSO7777
    1187 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited August 29
    For me it looks like they didn't have time enough to develop the game. BFV wasn't finished at launch and the part where you test/bugfix/optimize/polish is not happening until now. It seems like they tried to deliver content after launch, but because the foundation was not solid, it just got them into even more trouble. In the beginning the game was very buggy but still promising, people just started to get 'burnt out' because improvements didn't come quickly and now many have left the (sinking?) ship.

    Levelcap theorizes that BC3 was in development and Dice then was forced by EA to make BFV instead (and make BC3 a launch-title for new consoles), which sounds plausible (but still is just a theory).

    They can still save the game, but the playerbase will be reduced no matter what they do. Perhaps they can fix the bugs/issues and then lower the price to attract new players (if they can fix the bugs)...
  • SirSpectacle
    788 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    My guess is not enough developers allocated to BFV, especially experienced ones, and having to split the developers they do have between fixing bugs and making new content for the live service.
  • Hawxxeye
    5542 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    They are making new content for battlefront 2 for the Rise of Skywalker movie
  • BaronVonGoon
    6777 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    I know I keep repeating the same thing but I firmly believe they're done.

    Alot of the people in game studios are the artistic types. They hate repetition, they hate doing the same thing over and over, same game franchise over and over. They're creative and want to create new things. This is why alot of Dice devs have left the studio over the last few years.

    The ones left are past the boredom stage. They produced BFV while bored so it's quality clearly indicates no love was put in its development.

    They're now just collecting a pay cheque. Next game is going to be worse.

  • SirTerrible
    1701 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Based on absolutely nothing (can't stress this enough, I have zero insider info obviously lol) I'd guess it's a management issue. Not enough people working on the game and/or poor direction in general. I legitimately don't believe there's a talent or skill issue with the devs themselves and I feel bad for them. Dedicating your time to a game that gets this much negative attention would affect most people outside their work life and that sucks.
  • YourLocalPlumber
    2884 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye said:
    They are making new content for battlefront 2 for the Rise of Skywalker movie
    Wit the disaster that was The Last Jedi and Solo story, I don't think they would want to bet on Star Wars again.
  • HawkeyeAM47
    1353 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    The reality is, they almost got screwed for Battlefront 2, your dealing with Disney here! Also, the last time DICE could have brought new people to BFV would have been with Firestorm, we all know how that turned out.
  • ninjapenquinuk
    1834 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    lack of programmers/designers? low morale? lack of funding?

    i'll ask a different question:  what comes first? the chicken or the egg? the effort or the profit? well according to EA, profit comes first and with no profit there is no effort. now, say what you will about FIFA being monstreous cash cows, the technical support for those games are in a completely different level than Battlefield V... and it's no small part due to the massive playerbase the FIFA games have to support. it seems to me at least that EA don't see value in fixing Battlefield V, therefore don't allow DICE to allocate proper resources to support Battlefield V properly. they don't see how effort can earn them profit, the loop they see is: profit> effort> profit. they are waiting for us to spend money on microtransactions, which probably aren't balancing the bottom line for EA's shareholders.  don't know about you guys, I never spend a dime on microtransactions in this game since launch, the game didn't earn in, there was no effort.

    I don't think after all these years DICE have actually become this incompetent, almost a year after a game's release, there is no way a game can be in such a poor state simply due to lack of programming and design skills. to me it seems like it's a systemic problem and EA's inablity to see long term goals in maintaining a game like Battlefield V.

    Ubisoft understood the true value  in their games, and both Rainbow Six: Siege and For Honor are supported well, have managed to form a community/live service symbiosis that is mutually benefitial. what's even funnier that there is precedence for a comeback, in DICE's own history with both Battlefield 4 which was arguably in an even poorer state than Battlefield V is now, and more recently with Battlefront II. the difference might be, that those games sold relatively well, and met some quarterly goals for shareholders, while Battlefield V did not, herefore it doesn't get the same support.

    what's worse for Battlefield V is that the fixes for the game are mostly well known, easily tracable, yet remain there for far longer than they would be in other games... and the community? it's never been this pessimistic about a Battlefield game like that before, and with good reason, we are almost a year into the game's live service and we see very little progress. there are people here who want to see this game die, whether it is in bad faith or from genuine vindictive disappointment, I don't quite remember such a constant feeling of hopelessness. think about it, Battlefield V was supposed to be THE return to the roots of Battlefield, it's WORLD WAR II, it's THE World war II game to play now, and this game, this monumentaly important game in maintaining not just the legacy of Battlefield, but the legacy of the greatest human conflict in history is such a whimper of a game. it's such a shame, because I do see and have always seen the potential in Battlefield V and deep down, I really do want this game to make it's grand comeback and prove everyone wrong.

    instead it feels like we're in the endgame and that fantasy of Battlefield V's grand comeback in nothing but daydreaming. I even see more Battlefront II in the gaming news, as if DICE see that game more profitable in the long term, as if DICE will have abandon Battlefield V after Chapter 5, and not because they want to, but because they are not allowed to... 
    EA is all about profit. You say FIFA is a good example of EA throwing resources at it's cash cow, but it's cash cow is FUT not core FIFA. Core FIFA has barely changed in a decade, and if anything gone backwards. Creating a new FIFA each year takes little effort as its basically the same game , different colour menus. You are right about FUT though as this is what gets all the patches as that's where the money is, the core game play is barely touched
  • dICEHOUSE
    570 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    In the single sense, placing all other $ generating EA games aside, I would imagine it's something like producing a movie. You have a budget based around theoretical net profit ( ultimately based upon theoretical sales against ALL production costs).  

    If you initially tap out your budget before release ( because it's not finished), you as a corporation have to start making some hard decisions. In this case, it has to be released. Since you know already what the high end of projected sales are, you make the decision to either make it happen to release it with accepted, subjective opinions that it's playable enough or spend the $ and possibly take a loss.

    I think its highly possible in this case ( the game release was delayed a month with a " we want to get it right overtone ") , the producers here realized the problems that lied ahead with game and the BF community that would follow.  It was quite obvious how fast the cost to purchase the game dropped after release (depending on region)

    This is a corporate company. Their bottom line objective is to make a profit. They will do whatever it takes to make a profit ( stocks depend on it) or absolutely minimize a loss if that will be the case yet NOT jeopardize their overall reputation. 
  • amkingchar
    67 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Thank you for posting such a post because I have a lot to say ...

    Well these days most of the game developers created an idea of religion for money and profit so i guess i can agree 100% for EA profit comes first I mean imagine what they would do without the pre-order games that people got ! Probably worst than now ! And not surprised why they are funding FIFA ! I mean FIFA for me is a simple game despite the real time characters but that's the only effort the have to do and every year they come up with a new title but they serve the same core game and community is still there to give them money every weekend! 

    On the other hand DICE has to create an over all huge map design which nowadays maps don't feel as big as BF4 ! Weapon skins character customization vehicles and that's just the least of them and to be honest a map to be right without bugs could take almost a year ! I don't know how DICE messes it up and they come up with a new map every month . Also I believe the fact that they made it realistic it's a good feature but don't you think that that's the thing that destroys visibility ? After all it's a game ! 

    Starting from the beginning BFV could change a name to "BUGFIELD V" I mean that's marketing at it's finest right ? From the beginning marketing was horrible but trailers where beautiful to the eye, but yet many of us fell to the trap and mostly because it's just another BF title and probably the devs and the community lost a huge amount of trust. They better come up with free online features and DLC's or probably the next title to be free and at least be able to save the series and worth our money ! On the other hand delays of not only content but updates are really unacceptable from what was promised and the most that makes it more ridiculous is that they say they are facing a bug that they need to fix but they don't really share it with us and then again having us worried that the next update 4.4 will be just another crap. Well another minus for TRUST.

    So here are most of the lets say "Veterans" of BF going back to BF4-BF1 to at least have some more fun and some of them waiting for DICE to wake up and fix BFV or a better game to come out ! So not even a hope for a better BF title ! I could defenately agree that BF4 had a very settle release and for it to still be alive after all those years well DICE need to move back ! Last but not least as for EA well even if you search on google "Worst game developers in the world " EA has the lead no doubt and if they keep doing whats happening now no wonder how they will change there course. So as for the next BF game don;t pre-order or  even buy at the last moment of release ! You can wait for 5-6 or even more month to let the game developed (fingers crossed) and then try it out .
  • Noodlesocks
    2875 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Hard to say what the core reasons is. There's lots of aspects that are currently failing this game but if I were to suggest a singular, core source that has spawned the numerous complications that has beset the game I would say it is poor management of resources.
     
    We are beginning to glimpses of the internal issues within Dice Sweden as a company and the lack of communication that seems to go on between departments. I can only assume that the people who are supposed to be managing Dice Sweden and making sure everything is being co-ordinated and running smoothly hasn't been doing a good job of it. Since the game released it feels like they have been constantly chasing their own tail just trying to put out their own fires and now it seems to have came to the point where the game can't progress anywhere because the level of management and resources it will require to pull it out of the slump it is in simply isn't there for it.
  • dICEHOUSE
    570 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    And It all begins at the $ making corporate top. A restructure, a cut, a new top hire?/promotion? a procedure change? 

    In the end, it all trickles down to the people that make it really happen and end up getting their personal life's a** kicked trying to do it. I believe they really want to succeed but with lack of resources, corp support and fellow help, they're possibly doomed. 

    It's the corporate way,
  • MogwaiWarrior
    721 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I honestly believe the people who truly knew how to program the Frostbite engine are gone. Not only that the people that have left also knew how to create correct maps and balance weapons/vehicles. We have none of this in BFV.
    Don’t just look at all the bugs/glitches look at the entire game. It’s a dumpster fire.
  • rifle77
    104 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    It's the perfect storm of arrogance, ineptitude, and disregard for the customer all wrapped up in a stinky brown bow.  You will never have another good Battlefield again unless they fire the entire development team starting at the top and working their way down.  Every single person who in any way touched BF5 development must go, and then you bring in some fresh meat with some fresh ideas and you don't handcuff them to "what monetizes" and instead let them make a game they would love to play.  In short, it ain't never, ever gonna happen.  
  • Lancelot_du_Lac
    34 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I think the BFV debacle could become a HBR case study of what happens when product strategy is developed inside the corporate bubble e.g. New Coke (for those that can remember). One of the cardinal rules of Marketing/Brand strategy is: never more too far ahead of your core consumer.
  • BaronVonGoon
    6777 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited August 30
    I think the BFV debacle could become a HBR case study of what happens when product strategy is developed inside the corporate bubble e.g. New Coke (for those that can remember). One of the cardinal rules of Marketing/Brand strategy is: never more too far ahead of your core consumer.

    THIS is Battlefield from experience. Since I started playing this has been my complaint. They're always trying to fix what doesn't need fixing.


  • ChickenTheTank
    329 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Writing code in an applied environment is difficult sometimes.

    The situation sucks for us a lot.

    The situation sucks for DICE too.

    Everyone should be really upset at EA.

    / thread
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