Weekly Debrief

Attrition. Maybe it's time to get rid of it completely.

2

Comments

  • Woodlbrad
    650 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I say have a separate mode with increased attrition so you can actually feel it and one with it completely removed. Maybe rsp will provide this.
  • jroggs
    431 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Here's a thought on attrition in Battlefield from EA.

    "The second thing, and this is a point that I think might be lost on many, is a big and substantial portion of digital revenues are microtransactions. When you are six hours into playing Battlefield, and you run out of ammo in your clip, and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you're really not price sensitive at that point in time... It's a great model, and I think it represents a substantially better future for the industry." - John Riccitiello (former CEO of EA), at a shareholders' meeting in 2011

    Not hard to see the appeal in this from a business standpoint. "I'd never pay a dime for that," you say. And sure, you probably wouldn't, most of the time. But what if you're six hours in on a Battlefield play session, and you're on a huge kill streak, could be a personal best, and then you run out of ammo. Or your health is low and you don't have a medpack. Or there's an enemy tank with a sliver of health left bearing down on you but you've used up all of your AT weapons. Accept that your run is over, or pay just one measly dollar to keep it going. What would you do then?

    How about this? You can restock from resupply stations, but there's a lengthy cooldown between when you can restock again from any source. Or you can pay 50 cents to ignore the cooldown timer and restock right now. Or pay five dollars and get a 75% reduction in restock cooldown timers for the next 24 hours. What a deal!

    To my knowledge this never came about in any Battlefield game, though it's a driving force in mobile games (which receive far less scrutiny than AAA console and PC games) and China is supposedly more okay with this kind of pay-to-win model in their games. But you can bet EA would have loved to implement this if they thought they could get away with it.

    Far Cry 5 actually did something very like this with their helicopter ammo. Granted, that was a single player game from a different publisher and it used in-game dollars rather than the premium "silver bars," but it could serve to drain players of their scarce in-game money and encourage them to buy silver bars in order to buy new weapons, vehicles, and cosmetics. Battlefront II came out as a monetization nightmare so egregious it set a very literal world record in consumer backlash. Battlefield V was in development during this time, and you can feel a lot of leftover plans to make BFV similar to Battlefront II's initial plans. Instead of grinding and paying for Luke Skywalker and blaster upgrades, we would have been grinding and paying for Tigers and weapon specializations. There but for the grace of internet outrage go we.

    I do think EA has bitterly accepted that John Riccitiello's vision is a near-impossible sell in the landscape of western AAA multiplayer shooters, but twisting game mechanics to suit predatory monetization is something players need to stay vigilant about. Remember, this stuff already infests mobile and Asian game markets. It will happen to us as well if we let it.
  • LINKERBLOX
    92 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Keep it, its is a tactical feature
  • Matty101yttam
    967 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I don't mind the overall implementation, but i HATE the animations where the hand goes up in your fov and how it takes you away from regular aiming and cancels reloading.
  • CSO7777
    1196 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited September 19
    I like health and gadget attrition, but low ammo for guns is boring. Playing with random squads often results in running out of ammo because no-one plays support or if they do they don't give you any ammo.

    And the "first run to the supply-station, then go to battle" after spawn is borderline stupid. And it happens a lot in this game (often does it myself).

    Its a shooter-game not a looter-game.
    Post edited by CSO7777 on
  • barnesalmighty2
    1520 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I don't really care if it stays but I don't like attrition particularly health regen when so many medics fail completely in throwing out health packs.

    I annoys me no end when the instant I spawn in I get hit by a sniper and immediately have too use the one I have.

    Its not fun but I can deal with it.
  • Trokey66
    8384 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Of all the game mechanics I may have issues with, attrition is pretty low on the list for me.

    Perhaps because I always played with mates and heals and ammo wasn't an problem.
  • trip1ex
    4770 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    what they did in bf5 was just annoying.  half of this.  part of that.  wasn't elegant at all.  


  • Hawxxeye
    5594 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited September 20
    V2Face said:
    Attrition is a failure because quite simply it slows down gameplay even more then it already is while also having a low TTK. Encourages the worst playstyles to flourish without much penalty( no real 3D spotting and lackluster kill cam.) Tanking and flying can be boring due to resupply, the stations that can be far and in between and take you out of combat right when it matters. Attrition was a stab at realism no one asked for and it falls on its face because it’s simply anti fun in my opinion.
    There were people who asked for attrition. However having for example limited vehicle ammo for example means that you are supposed to make those limited resources more potent in order to maintain the risk/reward ratio.
    What BFV did was limit vehicle ammo but at the same time they did not made it more potent or even nerfed its potency in terms of firepower or simply cause it is harder to find targets in the case of the planes.
    .
    In BFV for vehicles the higher the risk the lower is the reward.
  • DogRoyal
    102 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I like it. It brings something extra tactical to the game. Stations are at flags, so if you ptfo they should not be far away most of the time. I run out of ammo occationally and just pick up random guns and use those. Though it is extremely annoying that you dont spawn fully loaded up and have to run to a station. I dont think the attrition aspect slows down the gameplay by much but both health and ammo attrition might slow down some pro players' kill streaks but then again I dont think that is a bad thing for the overall game experience.
  • Hawxxeye
    5594 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited September 20
    DogRoyal said:
    I like it. It brings something extra tactical to the game. Stations are at flags, so if you ptfo they should not be far away most of the time..
    The vehicle stations are often not inside the bases. The travel time back to the station incentivises staying closer to the station and further away from where you are needed.
    Infantry attrition can sort of work but the vehicle attrition is being awful
  • Hawxxeye
    5594 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Trokey66 said:
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    (Quote)
    The vehicle stations are often not inside the bases. The travel time back to the station incentivises staying closer to the station and further away from where you are needed.
    Infantry attrition can sort of work but the vehicle attrition is being awful

    There should be a way for a team mate to resupply vehicles in the field.
    the mechanic is even in firestorm
  • Trokey66
    8384 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    (Quote)
    the mechanic is even in firestorm

    True, forgot about that.
  • SirBobdk
    4070 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited September 20
    Getting rid of 3x scopes on anything but recon weapons would fix this game more than getting rid of attrition.
    Agree. Seem odd to make a game with poorly visibility and garbage 1x/iron sights and then add 3x zoom. BFV is more or less a semi sniper prone simulator.
    I like the limited ammo on planes and tanks, but don't like the rest, especially not the plane damage system and infantry health system.
    If I could choose I would like to go back to BF3/4 way of playing with only one change and that is resupply for planes and tanks.
  • ragnarok013
    3233 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    Hawxxeye said:
    I'd be curious how much Firestorm influenced the mechanics we see in the core game? A lot of good that did.
    it is my pet tinfoil hat theory that attrition was introduced to normalize the firestorm stuff
    Hawxxeye I haven't heard anything official but I think that's a logical conclusion to make as well as the addition of a buddy revive, the cosmetics, the lack of spotting etc.
  • dandop_oq7r7ppf
    245 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Health attrition needs to go.
    Ammo attrition is fine, and could be more punishing.

    Health attrition severely effects aggressive players, and attacking teams on Breakthrough.
    In theory it’s fine, if you have a squad of Medics, but we all know how that turns out in public matches.
    Medics are uncommon compared to other classes.

    Health attrition is a big reason why people play so defensively in this game. This just adds to the frustrating bush camping meta.
  • warslag
    1456 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited September 20
    Well, if attrition was put in BF:V because of Firestorm - but Firestorm has failed - then attrition is pointless.

    So it would seem that BF:V was really just a Battle Royal experiment. That explains everything. At this point BF:V now looks like a massive mistake.
  • BaronVonGoon
    6779 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Attrition is typical Dice. They're bored of Battlefield, they're bored of the shooter genre. Its their way of introducing new things for no reason whatsoever. Dice if you're bored of the genre the community is not so stop trying to break what's not broken... I mean going forwards, you've completely broken BFV beyond repair.
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