Weekly Debrief

Why is the anti aircraft gun so useless???

Comments

  • ragnarok013
    3196 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    Just a reminder to everyone to stay on topic and remain civil.
  • fragnstein
    489 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    DukeSan27 wrote: »
    (Quote)
    MAA camps in base because its useless against infantry, leave alone planes. There is no point in bringing it out in the field. Its essentially tethered to the base supply depot to survive the bombings.

    And if you call that base camping then what do you call enemy planes being able bomb friendly base zones? Spawn camping? Have had plenty of times when pilot buddies camp the base to take out planes and tanks as soon as they spawn.

    Tell me this is fair play or not?

    Now leave all this aside and look at another angle. How many times have you seen an MAA going 50-5? And how many times have seen planes doing that (or even normal tanks)? That's the issue.

    There are already posts in this forum regarding how effective maa is vs infantry, especially in maps without planes.

    And in most cases, planes fly to enemy respawn point simply to resupply their ammo, not intentionally spawn camping. And whether planes do spawn camping vs other planes or not has nothing to do with air ground balance.

    To your first point, there WAS threads about AA vs infantry, but that's been quite a while now because everyone has come to realize how useless the AA is so not many bother with it any more

    The 2nd point is to why AAs camp the spawn is to deny(or try to) enemy planes from resupplying over the back of the base. Arras is the only map where the resupply off to the side of the spawn

    2. It's also easier to concentrate on air targets and not have to worry about assaults or supports sneaking up on you.

    3. The limited shells isn't enough to venture far from a supply depot without running out of ammo. Flak panzer with 1000 rounds can burn through that in a few min time.


    4. Since the AA can only take out a damaged plane, most pilots repair and swing on back around to bomb the AA so it's silly to not be near a supply depot

    And I'm still waiting for video proof of AA shooting across the map. I originally said 300 meter is range, but I'm gonna revise that down to 175 to 200. The AA on narvik that sits behind B is about 50m away from that flag
  • fragnstein
    489 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited September 21
    My original post was eaten :(

  • PrecisionWing
    635 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    DukeSan27 said:
    DukeSan27 wrote: »
    (Quote)
    MAA camps in base because its useless against infantry, leave alone planes. There is no point in bringing it out in the field. Its essentially tethered to the base supply depot to survive the bombings.

    And if you call that base camping then what do you call enemy planes being able bomb friendly base zones? Spawn camping? Have had plenty of times when pilot buddies camp the base to take out planes and tanks as soon as they spawn.

    Tell me this is fair play or not?

    Now leave all this aside and look at another angle. How many times have you seen an MAA going 50-5? And how many times have seen planes doing that (or even normal tanks)? That's the issue.

    There are already posts in this forum regarding how effective maa is vs infantry, especially in maps without planes.

    And in most cases, planes fly to enemy respawn point simply to resupply their ammo, not intentionally spawn camping. And whether planes do spawn camping vs other planes or not has nothing to do with air ground balance.

    When enemy bomber is slaughtering your ground forces, why no one wants to jump in the fighter and take it out? I use fighter all the time, and never saw enemy bomber can go more than 10:5.

    Eventually it's the player who will make the difference. They buffed the MAA couple patches ago, and I can use it to shoot down bombers within one pass and kill fighters within 3 seconds, but even at that time, my fighter kill counts was also around 30-40:0. So like I mentioned, vehicles are not op, players are.


    Please point me to the buff. The last I remember was a nerf to AA to reduce its damage to Fighters by 20%.


    here you go.

    Funny thing is most of air-ground balance changes was not even in the patch note.
    After that, AA was over nerfed. and I asked for an AA damage buff, which they did in May/June patch, another silent patch.
    Point is, players should at least use the vehicle/weapons first before complaining about how op it is.
    Im not a pro ground vehicle user, yet still be able to dominate the sky when using that vehicle, that's why I thought nerf was needed.
    If air vehicles are so overpowered, everyone should be able to get at least 40-50:0, but most of them never used it.
    Most ppl just used air vehicles are a taxi or suicide bombs.

  • DingoKillr
    3545 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    (Quote)
    here you go.

    Funny thing is most of air-ground balance changes was not even in the patch note.
    After that, AA was over nerfed. and I asked for an AA damage buff, which they did in May/June patch, another silent patch.
    Point is, players should at least use the vehicle/weapons first before complaining about how op it is.
    Im not a pro ground vehicle user, yet still be able to dominate the sky when using that vehicle, that's why I thought nerf was needed.
    If air vehicles are so overpowered, everyone should be able to get at least 40-50:0, but most of them never used it.
    Most ppl just used air vehicles are a taxi or suicide bombs.

    That from video is from February? And in July that AA damage was reduced.
  • PrecisionWing
    635 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    (Quote)
    here you go.
    image
    Funny thing is most of air-ground balance changes was not even in the patch note.
    After that, AA was over nerfed. and I asked for an AA damage buff, which they did in May/June patch, another silent patch.
    Point is, players should at least use the vehicle/weapons first before complaining about how op it is.
    Im not a pro ground vehicle user, yet still be able to dominate the sky when using that vehicle, that's why I thought nerf was needed.
    If air vehicles are so overpowered, everyone should be able to get at least 40-50:0, but most of them never used it.
    Most ppl just used air vehicles are a taxi or suicide bombs.

    That from video is from February? And in July that AA damage was reduced.
    It was reduced in March or April, right after this video.
    And AA damage buff was introduced silently in July.
  • MBT_Layzan
    1495 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    DukeSan27 said:
    DukeSan27 wrote: »
    (Quote)
    MAA camps in base because its useless against infantry, leave alone planes. There is no point in bringing it out in the field. Its essentially tethered to the base supply depot to survive the bombings.

    And if you call that base camping then what do you call enemy planes being able bomb friendly base zones? Spawn camping? Have had plenty of times when pilot buddies camp the base to take out planes and tanks as soon as they spawn.

    Tell me this is fair play or not?

    Now leave all this aside and look at another angle. How many times have you seen an MAA going 50-5? And how many times have seen planes doing that (or even normal tanks)? That's the issue.

    There are already posts in this forum regarding how effective maa is vs infantry, especially in maps without planes.

    And in most cases, planes fly to enemy respawn point simply to resupply their ammo, not intentionally spawn camping. And whether planes do spawn camping vs other planes or not has nothing to do with air ground balance.

    When enemy bomber is slaughtering your ground forces, why no one wants to jump in the fighter and take it out? I use fighter all the time, and never saw enemy bomber can go more than 10:5.

    Eventually it's the player who will make the difference. They buffed the MAA couple patches ago, and I can use it to shoot down bombers within one pass and kill fighters within 3 seconds, but even at that time, my fighter kill counts was also around 30-40:0. So like I mentioned, vehicles are not op, players are.


    Jumping into a fighter is the age old Pilot argument.


    +1
  • DukeSan27
    1163 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    DukeSan27 said:
    DukeSan27 wrote: »
    (Quote)
    MAA camps in base because its useless against infantry, leave alone planes. There is no point in bringing it out in the field. Its essentially tethered to the base supply depot to survive the bombings.

    And if you call that base camping then what do you call enemy planes being able bomb friendly base zones? Spawn camping? Have had plenty of times when pilot buddies camp the base to take out planes and tanks as soon as they spawn.

    Tell me this is fair play or not?

    Now leave all this aside and look at another angle. How many times have you seen an MAA going 50-5? And how many times have seen planes doing that (or even normal tanks)? That's the issue.

    There are already posts in this forum regarding how effective maa is vs infantry, especially in maps without planes.

    And in most cases, planes fly to enemy respawn point simply to resupply their ammo, not intentionally spawn camping. And whether planes do spawn camping vs other planes or not has nothing to do with air ground balance.

    When enemy bomber is slaughtering your ground forces, why no one wants to jump in the fighter and take it out? I use fighter all the time, and never saw enemy bomber can go more than 10:5.

    Eventually it's the player who will make the difference. They buffed the MAA couple patches ago, and I can use it to shoot down bombers within one pass and kill fighters within 3 seconds, but even at that time, my fighter kill counts was also around 30-40:0. So like I mentioned, vehicles are not op, players are.


    Please point me to the buff. The last I remember was a nerf to AA to reduce its damage to Fighters by 20%.


    here you go.

    Funny thing is most of air-ground balance changes was not even in the patch note.
    After that, AA was over nerfed. and I asked for an AA damage buff, which they did in May/June patch, another silent patch.
    Point is, players should at least use the vehicle/weapons first before complaining about how op it is.
    Im not a pro ground vehicle user, yet still be able to dominate the sky when using that vehicle, that's why I thought nerf was needed.
    If air vehicles are so overpowered, everyone should be able to get at least 40-50:0, but most of them never used it.
    Most ppl just used air vehicles are a taxi or suicide bombs.


    (Quote)
    here you go.
    image
    Funny thing is most of air-ground balance changes was not even in the patch note.
    After that, AA was over nerfed. and I asked for an AA damage buff, which they did in May/June patch, another silent patch.
    Point is, players should at least use the vehicle/weapons first before complaining about how op it is.
    Im not a pro ground vehicle user, yet still be able to dominate the sky when using that vehicle, that's why I thought nerf was needed.
    If air vehicles are so overpowered, everyone should be able to get at least 40-50:0, but most of them never used it.
    Most ppl just used air vehicles are a taxi or suicide bombs.

    That from video is from February? And in July that AA damage was reduced.
    It was reduced in March or April, right after this video.
    And AA damage buff was introduced silently in July.
    What is the point of this video so far back? At one point AA was good. Does not imply anything about current state.

    Can you give a reference of this silent buff?
  • SirBobdk
    4065 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited September 21

    Planes should not dominate BF, nothing should.
    Agree, but since there are only 2 planes and 2 tanks, they should not be easy to destroy either.
    Planes should be easy to use but difficult to master. That is not the case now, they are easy to use and easy to master, especially bombers
    The same should be the case for AA. I dont want planes farming infantry and AA farming planes. Both should be hard to master.
    Unfortunately, Dice has made a game with big balance issues air vs air and air vs ground.

  • fragnstein
    489 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    (Quote)
    here you go.
    image
    Funny thing is most of air-ground balance changes was not even in the patch note.
    After that, AA was over nerfed. and I asked for an AA damage buff, which they did in May/June patch, another silent patch.
    Point is, players should at least use the vehicle/weapons first before complaining about how op it is.
    Im not a pro ground vehicle user, yet still be able to dominate the sky when using that vehicle, that's why I thought nerf was needed.
    If air vehicles are so overpowered, everyone should be able to get at least 40-50:0, but most of them never used it.
    Most ppl just used air vehicles are a taxi or suicide bombs.

    That from video is from February? And in July that AA damage was reduced.
    It was reduced in March or April, right after this video.
    And AA damage buff was introduced silently in July.
    And the next patch silently nerfed it
  • Pesuto
    4 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I totally agree with OP on this topic. Planes are almost impossible to kill with AA guns to the point you just want to ignore them all together. Sure you might get killed that 5-10
    times during round for not paying any attention but alteast you are doing something for your team outside that. Stationary AA guns are exceptionally bad as even fighters can fly directly towards you without any attempt to dodge barrage and you still can't kill them. To make matters worse you can't move so you can't even try to evade incoming planes similar to AA tanks.  If plane has either bombs or rockets quess what - just give up. Bombs dont need to hit same post code but you will die to splash damage anyway.
     
    I feel like best way to sum up how bad AA is that you can literally have more plane kills with panzerfaust or cannon shells rather than AA guns if you are good and the pilot isn't careful enough. Personally I have never been even average pilot in battlefield francise so it's downright disgusting I can jump in to bomber and get 3-4 man multikills (yes I know those are small ones) while not getting shot down if enemies don't have actual planes coming after me.
     
    Planes being too strong isn't limited to BF5 either has anyone playing other games know planes have always been really powerful if pilot is half decent. I know game designing or balancing can't be easy and it's probably hard to make planes in a way that they limit good pilot enough (to not to make planes totally overpowered) while also being good enough for newer pilots. I still strongly feel like something must be done because seeing Fjell 652 to pop up makes you feel like pressing alt + f4. The sad thing is I feel like that map would be really interesting without planes.
     
    TLDR:
    -AA guns need to be buffed or planes health need to be reduced. At this point AA guns dont do anything outside killing infantry.
    -Stationary AA guns might need some form of damage reduction towards incoming fire from planes so they wont get one shotted so easily.
    -Dice might want to increase ammount of weapons that can damage planes and not being ignored due to a low caliber.
    -Balancing AA around multiple players working together against a single plane doesn't work and enemy team wont be sitting on bench while you hunt for Moby-****.
    -AA guns are often in bad positions with very limited firing area.
    -Infantry AA guns are often added to game way too long after the launch to give pilots "free reign" until then.
    -This post will propably get flagged by your friendly neigborhood pilots.
    -Dice might have plane fetish.
    -There will be typing errors.
    -This didn't end up being TLDR section at all.
  • jroggs
    414 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Some people have been saying that the SAA doesn't take skill. I think it's far more accurate to say that the SAA is really just horribly designed in terms of rewarding skill.

    Here's a clip from yesterday.



    Check out that pilot's spiral approach. Is this high skill? Not really. I'm a fairly poor pilot (in large part because it's so unfun in this game that I can't bring myself to care) and I demonstrated the same technique later that match with the same results. Just hold the roll button and you don't take damage, just like the rabbit told us 20 years ago. Then when you get close, level out and fly straight in, because you can tank the damage easily as well. Don't worry if you miss with your 1HK shot, because you can just keep tanking and easily evading the slow, weak projectiles so you can fly out, heal and re-arm, then come back in. Try as many times as it takes, you'll be fine.

    I left in the next bit to show how different things are when I encounter tanks.

    SAA flak is slow-firing with a very slow velocity. That's not good when you're firing at fast-moving long distance targets. You can't lead them, because you have no way of knowing where they'll be by the time your shot gets there. But even when you land those hits, even against light fighters, you're dealing tiny ticks of damage. If you get a rare disable, it doesn't really do much. You can't get kills, you can't even ward planes off. All you can do give some flying scrub a target to practice on. The smartest move is to stop fighting back and run away.

    And Panzerstorm is probably the best map in terms of open sight lines for AA. On a map like Fjell, it's ten times worse with pilots being able to fly behind mountains and below the angle of fire.

    Other folks have handily stomped the "just get in a plane yourself, bro" argument in many ways, but I'll add this as well: my best BF-109 is Level 2. The Spitfire I used in the video was also Level 2. Most players who don't regularly fly are in a similar or even worse situation. Low level planes are drastically limited in their ability to deal damage or even maneuver compared to Level 4 planes; it makes a big difference. And unlike rifles and tanks, planes are a miserable, dull slog to level up. So regardless of skill, a lot of players cannot just take to the skies themselves and compete on a fair level.
  • zterrans
    152 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    jroggs said:

    Other folks have handily stomped the "just get in a plane yourself, bro" argument in many ways, but I'll add this as well: my best BF-109 is Level 2. The Spitfire I used in the video was also Level 2. Most players who don't regularly fly are in a similar or even worse situation. Low level planes are drastically limited in their ability to deal damage or even maneuver compared to Level 4 planes; it makes a big difference. And unlike rifles and tanks, planes are a miserable, dull slog to level up. So regardless of skill, a lot of players cannot just take to the skies themselves and compete on a fair level.
    I'd also add in the "just get in a plane yourself" arguement has the glaring problem of never having planes available, as they are always in use unless the enemy team has a pair of fighter aces up.
  • LOLGotYerTags
    13021 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    Friendly reminder here @Trokey66 to keep on topic.

    Cheers.
  • DingoKillr
    3545 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    SirBobdk wrote: »
    (Quote)

    Agree, but since there are only 2 planes and 2 tanks, they should not be easy to destroy either.Planes should be easy to use but difficult to master. That is not the case now, they are easy to use and easy to master, especially bombersThe same should be the case for AA. I dont want planes farming infantry and AA farming planes. Both should be hard to master.
    Unfortunately, Dice has made a game with big balance issues air vs air and air vs ground.

    There is never only 2 Tanks and 2 Planes, there are can be more or less. Fjell has more planes then SAA can overlap fire, yet it takes 2 SAA to down a fighter. While Aerodrome has tanks but no AT cannon why? because action man can solo a tank. I wonder how it would be if it had a few AT cannons.

    Anyway what? It is a game, anything that is difficult to use, don't get used. Sure something's like stationary weapons are easy to use but so is driving a jeep and that is how it should be. For me stationary weapons should be jump on use then jump off. Grinding for skill shouldn't be required.
  • Trokey66
    8351 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Friendly reminder here @Trokey66 to keep on topic.

    Cheers.

    I thought I was but hey, you're the boss.....
  • MarxistDictator
    4903 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited September 21
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    SirBobdk wrote: »
    (Quote)

    Agree, but since there are only 2 planes and 2 tanks, they should not be easy to destroy either.Planes should be easy to use but difficult to master. That is not the case now, they are easy to use and easy to master, especially bombersThe same should be the case for AA. I dont want planes farming infantry and AA farming planes. Both should be hard to master.
    Unfortunately, Dice has made a game with big balance issues air vs air and air vs ground.

    There is never only 2 Tanks and 2 Planes, there are can be more or less. Fjell has more planes then SAA can overlap fire, yet it takes 2 SAA to down a fighter. While Aerodrome has tanks but no AT cannon why? because action man can solo a tank. I wonder how it would be if it had a few AT cannons.

    Anyway what? It is a game, anything that is difficult to use, don't get used. Sure something's like stationary weapons are easy to use but so is driving a jeep and that is how it should be. For me stationary weapons should be jump on use then jump off. Grinding for skill shouldn't be required.

    Nah people have just specifically been hating air vehicles since the beginning of time. Even though all of their complaints (them being a cheap, low skill means of acquiring lots of skills without much risk of dying) apply much more to tanks. I mean it actually does take about 100 times more effort to aim and time a bomb drop than it does to just point a tank cannon and fire. Planes can't sit on their repair stations and aim while repairing either, nor can they crash or have other tanks ram them for an instant suicide regardless of skill. But tankers get a pass, simply because tanks have a low enough skill floor they include more of the community. Every game. Even BF1 where tanks were unquestionably better for farming kills we had people complaining about planes all the time and adding infantry AA weapons while buffing AA.

    Look at your example map, one where some tankers have been consistently pulling 100 kill games...just like Fjell with some pilots. Is it even on your radar? No, it apparently doesn't even need AT guns, despite the armor issue on Aerodrome being the lack of long range counters to tanks aside other tanks (such as AT guns, but they are not needed here apparently). Like I get it, up is cheap and having things fall on you is somehow worse than an armored box out of bounds next to a resupply station camping. But c'mon, this is not even close to an unbiased view point.
  • MBT_Layzan
    1495 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    jroggs said:
    Some people have been saying that the SAA doesn't take skill. I think it's far more accurate to say that the SAA is really just horribly designed in terms of rewarding skill.

    Here's a clip from yesterday.



    Check out that pilot's spiral approach. Is this high skill? Not really. I'm a fairly poor pilot (in large part because it's so unfun in this game that I can't bring myself to care) and I demonstrated the same technique later that match with the same results. Just hold the roll button and you don't take damage, just like the rabbit told us 20 years ago. Then when you get close, level out and fly straight in, because you can tank the damage easily as well. Don't worry if you miss with your 1HK shot, because you can just keep tanking and easily evading the slow, weak projectiles so you can fly out, heal and re-arm, then come back in. Try as many times as it takes, you'll be fine.

    I left in the next bit to show how different things are when I encounter tanks.

    SAA flak is slow-firing with a very slow velocity. That's not good when you're firing at fast-moving long distance targets. You can't lead them, because you have no way of knowing where they'll be by the time your shot gets there. But even when you land those hits, even against light fighters, you're dealing tiny ticks of damage. If you get a rare disable, it doesn't really do much. You can't get kills, you can't even ward planes off. All you can do give some flying scrub a target to practice on. The smartest move is to stop fighting back and run away.

    And Panzerstorm is probably the best map in terms of open sight lines for AA. On a map like Fjell, it's ten times worse with pilots being able to fly behind mountains and below the angle of fire.

    Other folks have handily stomped the "just get in a plane yourself, bro" argument in many ways, but I'll add this as well: my best BF-109 is Level 2. The Spitfire I used in the video was also Level 2. Most players who don't regularly fly are in a similar or even worse situation. Low level planes are drastically limited in their ability to deal damage or even maneuver compared to Level 4 planes; it makes a big difference. And unlike rifles and tanks, planes are a miserable, dull slog to level up. So regardless of skill, a lot of players cannot just take to the skies themselves and compete on a fair level.
    This. 
  • Raspu71nG
    118 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    are you guys also going to ask why is the MAA so OP against fighter planes?
    it is anti air and anti infantry at the same time.
    you guys want an OP SAA and OP MAA. 

    if SAA damage is gonna be increased then its range needs to be reduced, and MAA needs to be kicked out from home base, and it should only be good against air targets.
    fighter rockets splash damage needs to be increased because many times I have fire rockets against SAA and it did little damage because it hit the soldier's feet...





  • TheyHaveScissors
    691 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited September 21
    jroggs said:
    Some people have been saying that the SAA doesn't take skill. I think it's far more accurate to say that the SAA is really just horribly designed in terms of rewarding skill.

    Here's a clip from yesterday.



    Check out that pilot's spiral approach. Is this high skill? Not really. I'm a fairly poor pilot (in large part because it's so unfun in this game that I can't bring myself to care) and I demonstrated the same technique later that match with the same results. Just hold the roll button and you don't take damage, just like the rabbit told us 20 years ago. Then when you get close, level out and fly straight in, because you can tank the damage easily as well. Don't worry if you miss with your 1HK shot, because you can just keep tanking and easily evading the slow, weak projectiles so you can fly out, heal and re-arm, then come back in. Try as many times as it takes, you'll be fine.

    I left in the next bit to show how different things are when I encounter tanks.

    SAA flak is slow-firing with a very slow velocity. That's not good when you're firing at fast-moving long distance targets. You can't lead them, because you have no way of knowing where they'll be by the time your shot gets there. But even when you land those hits, even against light fighters, you're dealing tiny ticks of damage. If you get a rare disable, it doesn't really do much. You can't get kills, you can't even ward planes off. All you can do give some flying scrub a target to practice on. The smartest move is to stop fighting back and run away.

    And Panzerstorm is probably the best map in terms of open sight lines for AA. On a map like Fjell, it's ten times worse with pilots being able to fly behind mountains and below the angle of fire.

    Other folks have handily stomped the "just get in a plane yourself, bro" argument in many ways, but I'll add this as well: my best BF-109 is Level 2. The Spitfire I used in the video was also Level 2. Most players who don't regularly fly are in a similar or even worse situation. Low level planes are drastically limited in their ability to deal damage or even maneuver compared to Level 4 planes; it makes a big difference. And unlike rifles and tanks, planes are a miserable, dull slog to level up. So regardless of skill, a lot of players cannot just take to the skies themselves and compete on a fair level.

    Good post. That was hard to aim at (decent pilot) and painful to watch the outcome.

    I think DICE somehow thought the SAA had to work in tandem with the mobile AA (teamplay!) or MMG with AA spec bullets, forgetting that

    - there are fly-maps, (both conquest and other gamemodes) that dont offer the Mobile AA or any tanks for that matter
    - damage of MMG AA bullets is ineffective
    Perhaps DICE actually thinks the coordinated teamplay requirement works on a public where one solopilot can wreck tanks and infantry. This is the same reason why MMG AA bullets have their damage, one or two MMG AA-bullet players wont down a plane, but 4 of them probably will if the plane gets relatively close. Truth is, as a general rule: this amount of coordination never, ever happens on publics

    - flymaps have lots of cover for the airplanes, negating the chance for the mobile AA to down the plane with long, sustained accurate AA fire. The DPS of the SAA (and MAA for that matter) does not allow fending off airplanes coming at it, the more if the plane flies low to bomb the beforehand known position (stating the obvious here)

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