Gunner position still a useless death seat

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  • ElliotLH
    9546 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    snavelaer wrote: »
    (Quote)
    lol that is  always such a nasty moment. Damm and now I even have to get out wich takes another second where I am exposed

    So very true haha.
  • SixTouge
    367 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    mike2289 wrote: »
    SixTouge wrote: »
    Nothing should be done about it. It's a risk you take. A risk that was taken in actual combat.

    I kind of agree with this, your best defense in this position is overwhelming offense. Being first to fire with a barrage of rounds is really the only way you last, along with ducking down.

    As far as it not being rewarding, it just depends on how you like to play I guess. I enjoy being tank gunner and even prefer it to driving. My first option of course is the enclosed gunner, but I'll pop up top as well. Will I survive half the round up there? Of course not, but I can usually do some damage to approaching assault teams and help keep my tanker going.

    When im in the gunner seat i know my fate, but if i can do some damage to enemies and keep the tank going ive done my job and when i go down i just jump back right in. Having a gunner makes the tank deadly it just needs someone willing to sacrifce themselves for the greater good loool.

    Exactly! Certain tasks just call for some attrition, I get the impression sometimes that some players just never want to be killed in the game!
  • BURGERKRIEG
    1065 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    SixTouge said:
    mike2289 wrote: »
    SixTouge wrote: »
    Nothing should be done about it. It's a risk you take. A risk that was taken in actual combat.

    I kind of agree with this, your best defense in this position is overwhelming offense. Being first to fire with a barrage of rounds is really the only way you last, along with ducking down.

    As far as it not being rewarding, it just depends on how you like to play I guess. I enjoy being tank gunner and even prefer it to driving. My first option of course is the enclosed gunner, but I'll pop up top as well. Will I survive half the round up there? Of course not, but I can usually do some damage to approaching assault teams and help keep my tanker going.

    When im in the gunner seat i know my fate, but if i can do some damage to enemies and keep the tank going ive done my job and when i go down i just jump back right in. Having a gunner makes the tank deadly it just needs someone willing to sacrifce themselves for the greater good loool.

    Exactly! Certain tasks just call for some attrition, I get the impression sometimes that some players just never want to be killed in the game!

    This is not about wanting to dominate, merely an observance that unlike some of the previous BF games the gunner seat has be implemented in the game without much thought.

    This was pointed out many times at launch and resulted in a fix which enabled ducking as suggested by the community. I maintain that the initial problem has not been fully resolved and believe it requires another balance pass.
  • TKing2
    64 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Simple, give them front shield like the static MMGs have. Maybe a bit more open to see more.
  • Hawxxeye
    7748 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited September 2019
    Nothing should be done about it. It's a risk you take. A risk that was taken in actual combat.
    You mean in the real life where a single bullet could be enough to kill someone with a machinegun and even then most tanks did not even had that  top MG cause it was not worth the risk?

    mike2289 said:
    SixTouge wrote: »
    Nothing should be done about it. It's a risk you take. A risk that was taken in actual combat.

    I kind of agree with this, your best defense in this position is overwhelming offense. Being first to fire with a barrage of rounds is really the only way you last, along with ducking down.

    As far as it not being rewarding, it just depends on how you like to play I guess. I enjoy being tank gunner and even prefer it to driving. My first option of course is the enclosed gunner, but I'll pop up top as well. Will I survive half the round up there? Of course not, but I can usually do some damage to approaching assault teams and help keep my tanker going.

    When im in the gunner seat i know my fate, but if i can do some damage to enemies and keep the tank going ive done my job and when i go down i just jump back right in. Having a gunner makes the tank deadly it just needs someone willing to sacrifce themselves for the greater good loool.

    You are far more likely to die for nothing with several enemy infantry looking at the tank which is a sloow target while the infies can move like rabbits
  • SixTouge
    367 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    (Quote)
    This is not about wanting to dominate, merely an observance that unlike some of the previous BF games the gunner seat has be implemented in the game without much thought.

    This was pointed out many times at launch and resulted in a fix which enabled ducking as suggested by the community. I maintain that the initial problem has not been fully resolved and believe it requires another balance pass.

    You make a fair point, and I wouldn't be opposed to making the gun more lethal than it currently is, even a prolonged burst of hit markers often results in simple suppression and no kill. Give the tank gunners more stopping power and I'd be happy. I just worry shielding the top gunner too much will throw the balance too far the other way.
  • CHAMMOND1992
    1397 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited September 2019
    Hawxxeye said:
    Nothing should be done about it. It's a risk you take. A risk that was taken in actual combat.
    You mean in the real life where a single bullet could be enough to kill someone with a machinegun and even then most tanks did not even had that  top MG cause it was not worth the risk?
       I mean the real life in which DICE wanted to be faithful with the design of certain vehicles. How often a mounted machine gun was used is irrelevant to the fact that they were on tanks in WW2. German half-tracks have a gunner shield, the British don't. There were like one or two tanks in which a gunner shield was implemented and those tanks are not even in the game.
  • mike2289
    40 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I think if the gunner had double health it could be an approach to take especially when someone is so vulnerable and can't heal.
  • Hawxxeye
    7748 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited October 2019
    Hawxxeye said:
    Nothing should be done about it. It's a risk you take. A risk that was taken in actual combat.
    You mean in the real life where a single bullet could be enough to kill someone with a machinegun and even then most tanks did not even had that  top MG cause it was not worth the risk?
       I mean the real life in which DICE wanted to be faithful with the design of certain vehicles. How often a mounted machine gun was used is irrelevant to the fact that they were on tanks in WW2. German half-tracks have a gunner shield, the British don't. There were like one or two tanks in which a gunner shield was implemented and those tanks are not even in the game.
    Which shows once again why gameplay should take precedent over any realism.
    Tanks are being unfun and handicaped at objective ranges and this has a lot to do with that top MG being awful compared to previous BF games making so much harder to defend a tank  against infantry
    Post edited by Hawxxeye on
  • Trokey66
    9102 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    (Quote)
    Which shows once again why gameplay should take precedent over any realism.
    Tanks are being unfun and handicaped at objective ranges and this has a lot to do with that top MG being awful compared to previous BF games making so much harder to defend a tank  against infantry

    An interesting point you make here.....

    In BF3/4, the gunner had a plethora of 'gadgets' to use and coupled with the 'exit' mechanic, made Tonks/LAVs a true 'teamwork' vehicle.

    Now obviously, these were modern settings with modern tech that doesn't carry over but starting with BF1 and only slightly better in BFV, gunning in Tonks is out right boring and unessecarily risky.

    I'll happily die keeping a Tonk alive but when repairs are not required, I would like something to do other than respawn!

  • Hawxxeye
    7748 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited October 2019
    Trokey66 said:
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    (Quote)
    Which shows once again why gameplay should take precedent over any realism.
    Tanks are being unfun and handicaped at objective ranges and this has a lot to do with that top MG being awful compared to previous BF games making so much harder to defend a tank  against infantry

    An interesting point you make here.....

    In BF3/4, the gunner had a plethora of 'gadgets' to use and coupled with the 'exit' mechanic, made Tonks/LAVs a true 'teamwork' vehicle.

    Now obviously, these were modern settings with modern tech that doesn't carry over but starting with BF1 and only slightly better in BFV, gunning in Tonks is out right boring and unessecarily risky.

    I'll happily die keeping a Tonk alive but when repairs are not required, I would like something to do other than respawn!

    I forgot to add that the top gunner is not only in danger from the assault he tries to protect  the tank again but is also the favorite target of every wookie within the first couple hundreds of meters.
    the STUG already got away with having one magical remote controlled top turret, this should imho be the case for all the other tanks
  • BURGERKRIEG
    1065 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Man I used to love being a two man tank crew with my buddy in older BF titles. Kinda boring now that the mechanic isn’t a thing too :(
  • CHAMMOND1992
    1397 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye said:
    Hawxxeye said:
    Nothing should be done about it. It's a risk you take. A risk that was taken in actual combat.
    You mean in the real life where a single bullet could be enough to kill someone with a machinegun and even then most tanks did not even had that  top MG cause it was not worth the risk?
       I mean the real life in which DICE wanted to be faithful with the design of certain vehicles. How often a mounted machine gun was used is irrelevant to the fact that they were on tanks in WW2. German half-tracks have a gunner shield, the British don't. There were like one or two tanks in which a gunner shield was implemented and those tanks are not even in the game.
    Which shows once again why gameplay should take precedent over any realism.
    Tanks are being unfun and handicaped at objective ranges and this has a lot to do with that top MG being awful compared to previous BF games making so much harder to defend a tank  against infantry
     It doesn't show anything other than that mounted MG's were on tanks in WW2. The design is accurate with or without the MGs, it would NOT be accurate with a gunner shield. This is why I brought up BFV German and British Half-tracks. One has a shield, the other doesn't. Vehicle design was not done for the sake of balance to begin with. 

    Previous BF games? Like the ones that were...modern

     Now you're just really overestimating the effectiveness of a gunner shield. It certainly does not have, *a lot* to do with tanks being handicapped. Pretty sure that's due in its entirety on the actual mechanics of attrition and systemic damage, not a gunner shield. It's a death trap with out the shield, and a marginally less death trap with it.
  • ragnarok013
    3878 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    Vespervin said:
    I never use the suicide seat and I always feel bad when I kill someone in it. Funnily enough it's usually someone of lower rank, who hasn't learned how exposed they truly are.
    Vespervin I use that seat, but only when the hull gunner position is already taken. I think it's more important to protect the tank's flanks from rocket armed crunchies than to worry about my personal KD.
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