Fliegerfaust Overpowered - DICE get your balancing straight!

Comments

  • Hawxxeye
    7079 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    snavelaer said:
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    (Quote)
    Perhaps something to make it easier to locate targets on the ground or at least to be able to damage them if you know they are there thanks to someone spotting or telling (like bigger gun splash). This way both the ground to air and the air to ground interactions become more intense

    Ah ok something like this?
    https://forums.battlefield.com/en-us/discussion/194722/relationship-air-and-ground#latest
    Yes among other things
  • Trokey66
    8951 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    snavelaer wrote: »
    Another quick point to make why the Flieferfaust is not OP is this....

    When you see a plane coming at you and you try to whip out your huge Fliegerfaust out of your pants 😳 than you are to late.
    So you are forced to whip it out before the strafe begins making you more vulnerabe against infantry and look at the sky the whole time hoping that that plane flies close enough to get good damage against it.

    For the love of all things sacred Man, stop being sensible, it is not allowed around these parts!
  • Turban_Legend80
    4745 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    snavelaer wrote: »
    (Quote)
    How do you explain the comments than of Okii_918 than? What is he than?

     zBaronVonGoon said:(Quote)

    Me me me me me me!
    All jokes aside. I think it is not OP.

    You mean his post where he said he loves farming the noobs standing out in the open?

    I’d like to see his thoughts when smart players start using it against him from cover.
  • DrunkOnRedWine
    1686 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 said:
    Westie whining on Twitter about the push back he is getting is quite funny.

    If Westie wants the FF nerfed I'd imagine he'll get what he wants! 




  • SirBobdk
    5074 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Its fine that the buff the AA and introduces FF, It was needed. And I'm saying that as a pilot.
    It's a new weapon and I think we should see what happens when people fall back and start using anti tank weapons again.
    It might not be a problem when fewer are using the FF.
    But imo they should start looking at the upgrade trees and the role of the different planes.
    Fighters have been like the trench fighter in BF1 before nerf and bombers have almost no defense.
    The balance has been bad air vs ground and still is air vs air imo. Not to mention the terrible mechanics and damage model.
    There has been very little focus on planes, and a lot of the problems could have been solved here.

  • Kauzer_RF
    229 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye said:
    The pilots worth their salt are already adapting and are not flying at low height and going at a straight line
    Ye sure. But dive bombing and straffing runs are impossible now coz of insta death. Dice killed fighters and CAS planes, you will see now only bombers on high altitude bombing you....
  • MBT_Layzan
    2460 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    It's simply, apply pilot logic here, spawn as assault to counter assault just like they used to tell us to spawn as planes to counter planes going something stupid zero. :)

    Jokes aside, the balance in this game is all over the place and keeps changing, personally it's really off putting and you can't trust nothing to stay the same.   
  • snavelaer
    1148 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Kauzer_RF said:
    Hawxxeye said:
    The pilots worth their salt are already adapting and are not flying at low height and going at a straight line
    Ye sure. But dive bombing and straffing runs are impossible now coz of insta death. Dice killed fighters and CAS planes, you will see now only bombers on high altitude bombing you....

    snavelaer wrote: »
    (Quote)
    How do you explain the comments than of Okii_918 than? What is he than?

     zBaronVonGoon said:(Quote)

    Me me me me me me!
    All jokes aside. I think it is not OP.

    You mean his post where he said he loves farming the noobs standing out in the open?

    I’d like to see his thoughts when smart players start using it against him from cover.
    I don't know ask him. But I already see people use that all the time against me. And I love it that they use cunning a brain to take you out. That doesn't mean they succeed the whole time because I know the tactics they will going to develop and we as pilots are adapting. I love it as a pilot and many honest pilots over here love it as well. It was boring to fly in this game. It was okish fun to kill other fighter and it is dead easy to kill bombers.
    Kauzer_RF said:
    Hawxxeye said:
    The pilots worth their salt are already adapting and are not flying at low height and going at a straight line
    Ye sure. But dive bombing and straffing runs are impossible now coz of insta death. Dice killed fighters and CAS planes, you will see now only bombers on high altitude bombing you....
    Au contraire. It is not impossible to strafe run and bomb. Basically the time to make a strafe or a dive bombing has decreased so you need to be more precise and pull up earlier. Let's face it still dead easy with those handy 3rd person bombingsights on the bombers and the Stuka and Mosquito's. They certainly didn't kill fighters and they certainly didn't kill CAS. They increased CAS because of the lethal AA's. It forces you to fly near your own base and support your team a bit more. T
  • Turban_Legend80
    4745 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    snavelaer wrote: »
    (Quote)
    I don't know ask him.
    But I already see people use that all the time against me.
    And I love it that they use cunning a brain to take you out.
    That doesn't mean they succeed the whole time because I know the tactics they will going to develop and we as pilots are adapting.

    I love it as a pilot and many honest pilots over here love it as well.
    It was boring to fly in this game. It was okish fun to kill other fighter and it is dead easy to kill bombers.(Quote)
    Au contraire.

    It is not impossible to strafe run and bomb.
    Basically the time to make a strafe or a dive bombing has decreased so you need to be more precise and pull up earlier. Let's face it still dead easy with those handy 3rd person bombingsights on the bombers and the Stuka and Mosquito's. They certainly didn't kill fighters and they certainly didn't kill CAS.
    They increased CAS because of the lethal AA's. It forces you to fly near your own base and support your team a bit more. T

    So you ask me to try and explain somebody else’s comments, then when I do you say “I don’t know ask him”. Great. Remind me to say that to you next time you ask me to explain somebody else’s comment.
  • jbrasher02
    29 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    L
    (Quote)

    It is incredibly frustrating to be killed several times by something that you cannot fight back against. Especially if that something is preventing you from engaging in an activity that you enjoy (like bombing).
    The increase in the impact of the AA should be followed by an increase on the impact of the air on the ground.
    .
    It is a bad design imho to have a potentially invincible asset in the game that has a very minor impact in the flow of the game. This creates a case of "why does this thing even exist in the game?"
    Remaking that asset into something that has both high AF risk and also a high AF reward is a better design imho. (PS: I do not count the chance that an ace fighter will face another ace in the lobby as high risk)[/quote]

    But if that asset really doesn’t make an impact on the game, then why counter it so hard? In my opinion all this is doing is taking out and limiting fighters. What’s the only true counter to a good bomber? A fighter. So as a result there’s going to be more and more bombers sitting at high altitudes the flak can’t be effective at, preying on infantry. I feel like most infantry hate planes due to the bombers and with this purge dice is going on against planes, fighters are going to get hit the most not bombers. Now if they gave planes an actual purpose like putting objectives to capture in the sky, then I could understand all the counters to planes
  • snavelaer
    1148 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    snavelaer wrote: »
    (Quote)
    I don't know ask him.
    But I already see people use that all the time against me.
    And I love it that they use cunning a brain to take you out.
    That doesn't mean they succeed the whole time because I know the tactics they will going to develop and we as pilots are adapting.

    I love it as a pilot and many honest pilots over here love it as well.
    It was boring to fly in this game. It was okish fun to kill other fighter and it is dead easy to kill bombers.(Quote)
    Au contraire.

    It is not impossible to strafe run and bomb.
    Basically the time to make a strafe or a dive bombing has decreased so you need to be more precise and pull up earlier. Let's face it still dead easy with those handy 3rd person bombingsights on the bombers and the Stuka and Mosquito's. They certainly didn't kill fighters and they certainly didn't kill CAS.
    They increased CAS because of the lethal AA's. It forces you to fly near your own base and support your team a bit more. T

    So you ask me to try and explain somebody else’s comments, then when I do you say “I don’t know ask him”. Great. Remind me to say that to you next time you ask me to explain somebody else’s comment.
    Ok he won’t complain and still murder everyone on the ground and says; LMAO from his cockpit! With the same smugface that Lars Gustavsson had when he announced operation Underground
  • ElliotLH
    9193 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited October 2019
    (Quote)
    [removed for vulgarity]

    Wish I could up vote this more. I needed a good laugh right now and that was right on the money.
    Post edited by LOLGotYerTags on
  • chinook240
    104 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    L
    (Quote)

    “It is incredibly frustrating to be killed several times by something that you cannot fight back against.”

    Just like the bomber with 4000 lbs bomb that can be dropped outside the effective range of the poorly sited AA guns?  We need more FF please.
  • xeNizKing
    507 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    snavelaer said:
    AA turrets and tanks were already obsolete but I agree that infantry AA shouldn't be more powerful than them. Turrets and tanks should be buffed if they are going to nerf the fliegerfaust.

    well how would you buff the AA then? they simply get obliterated by any plane that has a bomb and you can't defend against them beyond trying to shoot them but the planes can easily tank an AA barrage heal up and be good to go...

    I would do it like they did in Battlefield 1. Shorten their horizontal range and increase their vertical range but make them do more damage the closer the shell detonates to the plane. That way they are really effective at defending the skies in their immediate area and a person would need to be able to judge how far to lead a plane to maximise the damage. Anti Air would effectively become a point defence platform instead of being able to fire across the map but do very little damage and it would reward AA vehicles with good positioning and force them out of their own spawn.
     
    An alternative change that might not require changes to AA would be to disallow planes from resupplying over the enemy spawn. That way they can't just continue forward after their bombing run to resupply from behind enemy lines and come back from behind with full health and armaments. They would have to turn around and return to their own base which increase the length of their exposure to AA on the ground as they turn and might discourage them from flying too deep over enemy territory if they know there's AA watching them.
    This.
    But the AA's are are already less effective at longer range. The further away the easier it is to dodge AA shells. An increase of 100% should do it.
    I mean if I am getting shot to 30% health by an AA I always say to myself that I shouldn't have survive that.
    If I do 70% damage to a plane it had reasonbly amount of time to change course and fly away from the AA.  If I am in an MAA I kill planes with it but that is only because I use strategy and have decent aim. The once I kill make mistakes in the air. Usually they stay to long in the range of the AA and don't do any evasive manouvres. (or poor ones)

    Anyways have flown the fighter today and have been downed a couple of times by the Fliegerfaust. I kind of already anticipated their tactics so I was highly aware .

    So this is what I think....

    The first encounter  I saw a Fliegerfauster he shot me and I bombed him. I was down to 28%. This number would return often. I was either instantly killed by 2 shots from different angles or already damged by a plane or AA and than I would be finished off. 
    After that I have shot more fliegerfausters or highly suspecious behaviour   that inicated to me that a they trying to Flieferfaust me.  :D

    Now if they would descide to nerf it. The effectiveness would be totally gone. And it would become a useless and frustrating weapon for the infantry.  I mean his is the deal.
    You get one shot at me to kill me. Do you blow it I will either kill you or I will repair comeback and kill you. Or I will stay away. Or fly high. 

    I wouldn't say the Flieferfaust is OP. Because saying OP suggest it needs to get nerfed. But if you nerf the Fliegerfaust it becomes absolute useless. I mean I am not going to fly in Fliegerfaust World the whole day.  So you get one shot maybe a second if I am repaired and I think I have a chance. 
    The beauty about it now nobody can complain anymore. If I still shoot you dead from a fighter than the response is very simple. Get in a fighter or use a Fliegerfauster.
    I haven't used it myself but I think it the ease of use of the Fliegerfaust makes it a (forgive my words) a noobweapon. 
    However I am not a fan to force players to counter a plane with a plane. 
    But I wouldn't rather have seen that the SAA and MAA would get a buff and this never released . I mean an SAA and MAA takes a bit more skill I think. And is more fun if it would be balanced right fot the SAA and MAA user. The Fliegerfaust is very easy and very effective. 

    This is on the other hand a bit frustrating for  pilots.
    especially the inexperienced pilots are going to have a bad time. 

    So as an ace I get downed more often by this thing but the effectiveness of the fighter still stands. 
    I still make the kills. However I can understand that it is frustrating for some and especially inexperienced pilots. 
    I would suggest that due to a higher chance to get killed now the nerf should be maybe that more planes are going to be available so pilots have to wait shorter.
    Or a shorter time on the spawn times of the planes.

    Again a nerf on the Fliegerfaust would make them quickly obsolete again. 
    I liked it to fly and kill Fliegerfausters simple because they thought they had the  golden gun in their hands. And it is not a golden gun......silver maybe  :D
    All in all I llike to have powerfull AA because it makes the flying so much more funa, exciting and more satisfying if you still perform good. 
    Like I said I would rather that they had buffed the MAA and SAA instead of this weapon though. 


    So conclusion and suggestions....

    - Dont't nerrf Fliegerfaust otherwise it becomes extremely quickly ineffective. 
    -  Don't touch (buff or nerf) SAA and MAA 
    - Make  a shorter spawn on the planes simple to counter frustration on pilot side and demotivation beginnger pilots. 
    - And/or more planes available to counter frustration on pilot side and demotivation beginner pilots. 



    Nerf the fliegerfausts range. Thats alls they need to do. It would then become a tool to specifically punish low flyers. As someone who dives a lot unless its a good assault player I usually get out unscathed. But I do not think the fliegerfaust should be effective at medium to high altitude simply because planes are already tissue paper to other planes. The fliegerfaust just already exasperates a much larger issue in the air.
  • Sapelogue
    106 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    xeNizKing said:
    snavelaer said:
    AA turrets and tanks were already obsolete but I agree that infantry AA shouldn't be more powerful than them. Turrets and tanks should be buffed if they are going to nerf the fliegerfaust.

    well how would you buff the AA then? they simply get obliterated by any plane that has a bomb and you can't defend against them beyond trying to shoot them but the planes can easily tank an AA barrage heal up and be good to go...

    I would do it like they did in Battlefield 1. Shorten their horizontal range and increase their vertical range but make them do more damage the closer the shell detonates to the plane. That way they are really effective at defending the skies in their immediate area and a person would need to be able to judge how far to lead a plane to maximise the damage. Anti Air would effectively become a point defence platform instead of being able to fire across the map but do very little damage and it would reward AA vehicles with good positioning and force them out of their own spawn.
     
    An alternative change that might not require changes to AA would be to disallow planes from resupplying over the enemy spawn. That way they can't just continue forward after their bombing run to resupply from behind enemy lines and come back from behind with full health and armaments. They would have to turn around and return to their own base which increase the length of their exposure to AA on the ground as they turn and might discourage them from flying too deep over enemy territory if they know there's AA watching them.
    This.
    But the AA's are are already less effective at longer range. The further away the easier it is to dodge AA shells. An increase of 100% should do it.
    I mean if I am getting shot to 30% health by an AA I always say to myself that I shouldn't have survive that.
    If I do 70% damage to a plane it had reasonbly amount of time to change course and fly away from the AA.  If I am in an MAA I kill planes with it but that is only because I use strategy and have decent aim. The once I kill make mistakes in the air. Usually they stay to long in the range of the AA and don't do any evasive manouvres. (or poor ones)

    Anyways have flown the fighter today and have been downed a couple of times by the Fliegerfaust. I kind of already anticipated their tactics so I was highly aware .

    So this is what I think....

    The first encounter  I saw a Fliegerfauster he shot me and I bombed him. I was down to 28%. This number would return often. I was either instantly killed by 2 shots from different angles or already damged by a plane or AA and than I would be finished off. 
    After that I have shot more fliegerfausters or highly suspecious behaviour   that inicated to me that a they trying to Flieferfaust me.  :D

    Now if they would descide to nerf it. The effectiveness would be totally gone. And it would become a useless and frustrating weapon for the infantry.  I mean his is the deal.
    You get one shot at me to kill me. Do you blow it I will either kill you or I will repair comeback and kill you. Or I will stay away. Or fly high. 

    I wouldn't say the Flieferfaust is OP. Because saying OP suggest it needs to get nerfed. But if you nerf the Fliegerfaust it becomes absolute useless. I mean I am not going to fly in Fliegerfaust World the whole day.  So you get one shot maybe a second if I am repaired and I think I have a chance. 
    The beauty about it now nobody can complain anymore. If I still shoot you dead from a fighter than the response is very simple. Get in a fighter or use a Fliegerfauster.
    I haven't used it myself but I think it the ease of use of the Fliegerfaust makes it a (forgive my words) a noobweapon. 
    However I am not a fan to force players to counter a plane with a plane. 
    But I wouldn't rather have seen that the SAA and MAA would get a buff and this never released . I mean an SAA and MAA takes a bit more skill I think. And is more fun if it would be balanced right fot the SAA and MAA user. The Fliegerfaust is very easy and very effective. 

    This is on the other hand a bit frustrating for  pilots.
    especially the inexperienced pilots are going to have a bad time. 

    So as an ace I get downed more often by this thing but the effectiveness of the fighter still stands. 
    I still make the kills. However I can understand that it is frustrating for some and especially inexperienced pilots. 
    I would suggest that due to a higher chance to get killed now the nerf should be maybe that more planes are going to be available so pilots have to wait shorter.
    Or a shorter time on the spawn times of the planes.

    Again a nerf on the Fliegerfaust would make them quickly obsolete again. 
    I liked it to fly and kill Fliegerfausters simple because they thought they had the  golden gun in their hands. And it is not a golden gun......silver maybe  :D
    All in all I llike to have powerfull AA because it makes the flying so much more funa, exciting and more satisfying if you still perform good. 
    Like I said I would rather that they had buffed the MAA and SAA instead of this weapon though. 


    So conclusion and suggestions....

    - Dont't nerrf Fliegerfaust otherwise it becomes extremely quickly ineffective. 
    -  Don't touch (buff or nerf) SAA and MAA 
    - Make  a shorter spawn on the planes simple to counter frustration on pilot side and demotivation beginnger pilots. 
    - And/or more planes available to counter frustration on pilot side and demotivation beginner pilots. 



    Nerf the fliegerfausts range. Thats alls they need to do. It would then become a tool to specifically punish low flyers. As someone who dives a lot unless its a good assault player I usually get out unscathed. But I do not think the fliegerfaust should be effective at medium to high altitude simply because planes are already tissue paper to other planes. The fliegerfaust just already exasperates a much larger issue in the air.
    The range is fine imo. Just the damages, spread and rocket velocity aren't.
    You can't dodge it, 2 FFs = insta death
  • Hawxxeye
    7079 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited October 2019
    A high flying bomber should have zero issues with the FF. I tried that earlier.
    The new US and Japanese planes should also have a roll destroying infantry  without making close dives with stuff like those x4 20mm explosive bullets and in the case of the zero plane the SPOTING SCOPE.
  • jbrasher02
    29 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    A high flying bomber should have zero issues with the FF. I tried that earlier.The new US and Japanese planes should also have a roll destroying infantry  without making close dives with stuff like those x4 20mm explosive bullets and in the case of the zero plane the SPOTING SCOPE.

    The Corsair and zero are monsters, I love their trees ... 4 explosive cannons or 6 heavy mg’s. Should be fun using those! After seeing that I can understand why they’re buffing aa
  • okiie_918
    159 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    (Quote)

    Sorry that is just not correct. I am taking them out with one burst from my FF. Refer to my video. You just have shown your lack of knowledge on the subject.  It's a one burst kill of a bomber if you lead the target as I have done. It's not hard to understand. 

    You can do this at quite a long-range than what I was expecting too. 

    You're wrong it's not a one shot kill to any plane. Max damage to fighter is around 70-80 damage. Bomber you shot down was missing health already. Need some more knowledge on it yeah?
  • snavelaer
    1148 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Sapelogue wrote: »
    (Quote)

    The range is fine imo. Just the damages, spread and rocket velocity aren't.You can't dodge it, 2 FFs = insta death

    Range is fine and the damage, spread and velocoty too.
    It is good you can’t dodge and you shouldn’t dodge.
    As soon as you can dodge it becomes immidiaty obsolete.

    It should be treated like a tank. A tank can’t dodge a panzerfaust either. That is the thing.

    We as the pilots should found a different way to counter the FF.

    Maybe scissoring is slightly effective for example. On lower altitudes.
    I am going to try that the coming days.
  • okiie_918
    159 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited October 2019
    This is what what the Faust has changed. No more low to ground bombing. No more kill one ground target to the next gotta pull away so to not get Faust. Rockets is the way to go. 20mm cannons for quick kills way to go. No no more strafing over enemy objective to shoot at another one. Now you have to be aware of where you're at at all times. Gotta not just turn around and strafe again but come at another angle. No more killing noobs at the start its almost impossible now. The va is not so good now. On the other hand its changed the way people try to take me down. Rocket a ammo supply and you will probably find your Faust user lol. Also spotting which most infantry ground noobs don't understand is most of the top pilots are spotting the entire enemy team almost every 30 seconds or faster. That plane you can't hit with your faust is probably spotting your entire team over and over. The only true counter is to get into a fighter plane and dogfight. :)
    Post edited by okiie_918 on
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