When is a 'thing' Over Powered?

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  • Hawxxeye
    8046 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2019
    Hawxxeye said:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R0z_33m-6g

    Skip to 4:26. That thing requires no skill, no leading, nothing. As a matter of fact the gamebreaking point is that affects any dogfight. You can't actually choose dogfight area. I will chase other fighter till I down it. If in rare occasions I am killed by another pilot, was better than me at maneuvering. This requires skill, cause I am a decent pilot. And for sure are better players than me. Had yesterday 2 games of 35-0 and 29-0. And another one on Twisted Steel 21-0, 20 planes destroyed and one MAA. It is not about piloting here, Fliegelriegel is TOO EASY TO USE.
    Yes it is too easy to use, but sometimes I think that the "good" dogfighters who do not let anyone else fly deserve to get a taste of how the tanks bellow feel with assaults.
    I am a better tanker than a pilot. Actually if you see me going in Panzer IV or Archer, good luck with that. Your opinion is not true cause a tanker choose when and where to fight on the ground. You have footsteps, audio signs and see clearly enemies. In case of planes you don't, all you hear is that engine(cause I use a lot cockpit view). I agree with the visuals vs ground cause a plane has to have a distinct place in Battlefield, and the main counter to plane should be  a plane. But if your team has no decent pilots well that's team's fault. Use MAA, fixed AA, piats, fausts etc. That guy that FF me was a bomber pilot. He ohked my archer 2 times on Twisted Steel and Hamada. When I could hop in the plane, his supremacy ended. Then he took G6 I killed him 2 times.(i main VB) Instead of fighting in air, he camped entire Hamada game on rooftops in between E and F flags. He killed me 2 times. Those who say planes can t ground they are wrong cause any decent pilot after clearing skies will help team effort no matter if they are using flares or rockets. It is dumb to have other roles as a Pilot. And that's where FF shines, making a not so polished game being garbage.
    The MAA and the fixed AA are garbage against any pilot with any considerable experience, even after the buffs.
    The FF is a bad solution to the "this fighter is invincible cause nobody can outfly him" problem. (Which has been popping up as an issue at least since BF3)
  • SmokeD_BabooN
    504 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Hawxxeye said:
    Hawxxeye said:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R0z_33m-6g

    Skip to 4:26. That thing requires no skill, no leading, nothing. As a matter of fact the gamebreaking point is that affects any dogfight. You can't actually choose dogfight area. I will chase other fighter till I down it. If in rare occasions I am killed by another pilot, was better than me at maneuvering. This requires skill, cause I am a decent pilot. And for sure are better players than me. Had yesterday 2 games of 35-0 and 29-0. And another one on Twisted Steel 21-0, 20 planes destroyed and one MAA. It is not about piloting here, Fliegelriegel is TOO EASY TO USE.
    Yes it is too easy to use, but sometimes I think that the "good" dogfighters who do not let anyone else fly deserve to get a taste of how the tanks bellow feel with assaults.
    I am a better tanker than a pilot. Actually if you see me going in Panzer IV or Archer, good luck with that. Your opinion is not true cause a tanker choose when and where to fight on the ground. You have footsteps, audio signs and see clearly enemies. In case of planes you don't, all you hear is that engine(cause I use a lot cockpit view). I agree with the visuals vs ground cause a plane has to have a distinct place in Battlefield, and the main counter to plane should be  a plane. But if your team has no decent pilots well that's team's fault. Use MAA, fixed AA, piats, fausts etc. That guy that FF me was a bomber pilot. He ohked my archer 2 times on Twisted Steel and Hamada. When I could hop in the plane, his supremacy ended. Then he took G6 I killed him 2 times.(i main VB) Instead of fighting in air, he camped entire Hamada game on rooftops in between E and F flags. He killed me 2 times. Those who say planes can t ground they are wrong cause any decent pilot after clearing skies will help team effort no matter if they are using flares or rockets. It is dumb to have other roles as a Pilot. And that's where FF shines, making a not so polished game being garbage.
    The MAA and the fixed AA are garbage against any pilot with any considerable experience, even after the buffs.
    The FF is a bad solution to the "this fighter is invincible cause nobody can outfly him" problem. (Which has been popping up as an issue at least since BF3)
    That's true only if MAA has not reached  level 4.(I have nothing unlocked for MAA lol) If all trees are unlocked, and tanker has an average skill, it is a fairfight 1v1. But in general when MAA or AA aims at you there are already other planes in the air. So, being on the receiving end means a more complicated scenario for a pilot. I have yet to see pilots rushing MAA's and if it happens, is always driver's fault engaging out of range planes. Aside that, main MAA problems are enemy tankers so being cautious and patient pays off.  
  • barnesalmighty2
    1632 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    The FF is just annoying really. That being said I just equipped napalm bombs on my zero and went 56 to 0 so yeah they're not that much of a problem.
  • gailjon
    78 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    There's no doubt that planes are OP when not challenged by other planes. I have just finished a round where the top two players were planes and they were 54-1, 30-1, etc less than halfway through the game.
    AA guns useless as, even if you are hitting them **** they come at you, the damage inflicted means they are easily able to kill you before you can damage them. It doesn't make for a good experience.
  • Hawxxeye
    8046 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye said:
    Hawxxeye said:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R0z_33m-6g

    Skip to 4:26. That thing requires no skill, no leading, nothing. As a matter of fact the gamebreaking point is that affects any dogfight. You can't actually choose dogfight area. I will chase other fighter till I down it. If in rare occasions I am killed by another pilot, was better than me at maneuvering. This requires skill, cause I am a decent pilot. And for sure are better players than me. Had yesterday 2 games of 35-0 and 29-0. And another one on Twisted Steel 21-0, 20 planes destroyed and one MAA. It is not about piloting here, Fliegelriegel is TOO EASY TO USE.
    Yes it is too easy to use, but sometimes I think that the "good" dogfighters who do not let anyone else fly deserve to get a taste of how the tanks bellow feel with assaults.
    I am a better tanker than a pilot. Actually if you see me going in Panzer IV or Archer, good luck with that. Your opinion is not true cause a tanker choose when and where to fight on the ground. You have footsteps, audio signs and see clearly enemies. In case of planes you don't, all you hear is that engine(cause I use a lot cockpit view). I agree with the visuals vs ground cause a plane has to have a distinct place in Battlefield, and the main counter to plane should be  a plane. But if your team has no decent pilots well that's team's fault. Use MAA, fixed AA, piats, fausts etc. That guy that FF me was a bomber pilot. He ohked my archer 2 times on Twisted Steel and Hamada. When I could hop in the plane, his supremacy ended. Then he took G6 I killed him 2 times.(i main VB) Instead of fighting in air, he camped entire Hamada game on rooftops in between E and F flags. He killed me 2 times. Those who say planes can t ground they are wrong cause any decent pilot after clearing skies will help team effort no matter if they are using flares or rockets. It is dumb to have other roles as a Pilot. And that's where FF shines, making a not so polished game being garbage.
    The MAA and the fixed AA are garbage against any pilot with any considerable experience, even after the buffs.
    The FF is a bad solution to the "this fighter is invincible cause nobody can outfly him" problem. (Which has been popping up as an issue at least since BF3)
    That's true only if MAA has not reached  level 4.(I have nothing unlocked for MAA lol) If all trees are unlocked, and tanker has an average skill, it is a fairfight 1v1. But in general when MAA or AA aims at you there are already other planes in the air. So, being on the receiving end means a more complicated scenario for a pilot. I have yet to see pilots rushing MAA's and if it happens, is always driver's fault engaging out of range planes. Aside that, main MAA problems are enemy tankers so being cautious and patient pays off.  
    I had this round in Mercury where the enemy team had 3 VA spits who were good pilots and probably a friend squad. Not only were they cleaning up the sky and strafing the ground but  they would swoop on the MAAs and accurately bomb them one after the other, destroying them outright. The MAAs and the static AAs cannot do enough damage to destroy even a fighter that is going for them.
    They can only  successfully interfere with some dogfight and finish off something really damaged.

  • SmokeD_BabooN
    504 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    The FF is just annoying really. That being said I just equipped napalm bombs on my zero and went 56 to 0 so yeah they're not that much of a problem.
    Not true, the truth is Corsair is way worse than Zero now. The gun convergence is absolutely garbage, I need 2x more time to kill a Zero than a Corsair in the same exact scenario. Just because you have no aerial threat, even though probably you had no decent pilots vs in that game... Zero spec tree is way better than Corsair, so be happy while you can. I have no problems dogfighting Zeros but always when I down one another one is at my 6. Takes ages to down them.
  • Hawxxeye
    8046 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2019
    The FF is just annoying really. That being said I just equipped napalm bombs on my zero and went 56 to 0 so yeah they're not that much of a problem.
    Not true, the truth is Corsair is way worse than Zero now. The gun convergence is absolutely garbage, I need 2x more time to kill a Zero than a Corsair in the same exact scenario. Just because you have no aerial threat, even though probably you had no decent pilots vs in that game... Zero spec tree is way better than Corsair, so be happy while you can. I have no problems dogfighting Zeros but always when I down one another one is at my 6. Takes ages to down them.
    Even with the 6 HMGs?  These things have more dps than a spit with 8 lmgs
  • SmokeD_BabooN
    504 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Hawxxeye said:
    The FF is just annoying really. That being said I just equipped napalm bombs on my zero and went 56 to 0 so yeah they're not that much of a problem.
    Not true, the truth is Corsair is way worse than Zero now. The gun convergence is absolutely garbage, I need 2x more time to kill a Zero than a Corsair in the same exact scenario. Just because you have no aerial threat, even though probably you had no decent pilots vs in that game... Zero spec tree is way better than Corsair, so be happy while you can. I have no problems dogfighting Zeros but always when I down one another one is at my 6. Takes ages to down them.
    Even with the 6 HMGs?  These things have more dps than a spit with 8 lmgs
    I am at level 2 spec wise both planes. I love the default secondary at both planes, so I wont change that. The problem lies in turning radius range and speed, also better at Zero. Basically Zero has no con as of now in comparison with Corsair. In my experience with SPIT when we betatested spit with 8 was inferior to the default one. The best thing was  area covered by those lmgs not the dps. But Dice is repeating mistakes done in the past. Spit was better than BF-109 initially, so Zero is the new SPIT. Seriously I would ve expected that ZERO has less armour, but DICE logic is solid as a rock. Zero has better spec tree, better turning radius, less hit box area and is tanking bullets like a boss, better gun convergence and stalling rate is identical to Corsair. Serioulsy I dont get Dice idea about balance.  
  • Hawxxeye
    8046 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye said:
    The FF is just annoying really. That being said I just equipped napalm bombs on my zero and went 56 to 0 so yeah they're not that much of a problem.
    Not true, the truth is Corsair is way worse than Zero now. The gun convergence is absolutely garbage, I need 2x more time to kill a Zero than a Corsair in the same exact scenario. Just because you have no aerial threat, even though probably you had no decent pilots vs in that game... Zero spec tree is way better than Corsair, so be happy while you can. I have no problems dogfighting Zeros but always when I down one another one is at my 6. Takes ages to down them.
    Even with the 6 HMGs?  These things have more dps than a spit with 8 lmgs
    I am at level 2 spec wise both planes. I love the default secondary at both planes, so I wont change that. The problem lies in turning radius range and speed, also better at Zero. Basically Zero has no con as of now in comparison with Corsair. In my experience with SPIT when we betatested spit with 8 was inferior to the default one. The best thing was  area covered by those lmgs not the dps. But Dice is repeating mistakes done in the past. Spit was better than BF-109 initially, so Zero is the new SPIT. Seriously I would ve expected that ZERO has less armour, but DICE logic is solid as a rock. Zero has better spec tree, better turning radius, less hit box area and is tanking bullets like a boss, better gun convergence and stalling rate is identical to Corsair. Serioulsy I dont get Dice idea about balance.  
    Yeah I have all the new planes at level 6 and I also find that the zeros are harder to dogfight against. It feels like if they already have a default improved surface control in comparison.
    The default secondary cannons are not that great against planes imho, All the air tryhards will probably have this spec: 6 HMGs, Manual Supercharger (speed boost toggle) and improved control surfaces with maybe the 8x FFA rockets.
  • SmokeD_BabooN
    504 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Hawxxeye said:
    Hawxxeye said:
    The FF is just annoying really. That being said I just equipped napalm bombs on my zero and went 56 to 0 so yeah they're not that much of a problem.
    Not true, the truth is Corsair is way worse than Zero now. The gun convergence is absolutely garbage, I need 2x more time to kill a Zero than a Corsair in the same exact scenario. Just because you have no aerial threat, even though probably you had no decent pilots vs in that game... Zero spec tree is way better than Corsair, so be happy while you can. I have no problems dogfighting Zeros but always when I down one another one is at my 6. Takes ages to down them.
    Even with the 6 HMGs?  These things have more dps than a spit with 8 lmgs
    I am at level 2 spec wise both planes. I love the default secondary at both planes, so I wont change that. The problem lies in turning radius range and speed, also better at Zero. Basically Zero has no con as of now in comparison with Corsair. In my experience with SPIT when we betatested spit with 8 was inferior to the default one. The best thing was  area covered by those lmgs not the dps. But Dice is repeating mistakes done in the past. Spit was better than BF-109 initially, so Zero is the new SPIT. Seriously I would ve expected that ZERO has less armour, but DICE logic is solid as a rock. Zero has better spec tree, better turning radius, less hit box area and is tanking bullets like a boss, better gun convergence and stalling rate is identical to Corsair. Serioulsy I dont get Dice idea about balance.  
    Yeah I have all the new planes at level 6 and I also find that the zeros are harder to dogfight against. It feels like if they already have a default improved surface control in comparison.
    The default secondary cannons are not that great against planes imho, All the air tryhards will probably have this spec: 6 HMGs, Manual Supercharger (speed boost toggle) and improved control surfaces with maybe the 8x FFA rockets.
    You have to practice a little that secondary. It is sooo good against planes, aim in front of the plane and burst fire cause overheating is an issue. Aside that is glorious. I am pretty sure they gonna nerf badly ZERO, and here we go again. Corsair will beast skies for a while and after 2 more years they gonna balance those planes like they should from the start.
  • Hawxxeye
    8046 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye said:
    Hawxxeye said:
    The FF is just annoying really. That being said I just equipped napalm bombs on my zero and went 56 to 0 so yeah they're not that much of a problem.
    Not true, the truth is Corsair is way worse than Zero now. The gun convergence is absolutely garbage, I need 2x more time to kill a Zero than a Corsair in the same exact scenario. Just because you have no aerial threat, even though probably you had no decent pilots vs in that game... Zero spec tree is way better than Corsair, so be happy while you can. I have no problems dogfighting Zeros but always when I down one another one is at my 6. Takes ages to down them.
    Even with the 6 HMGs?  These things have more dps than a spit with 8 lmgs
    I am at level 2 spec wise both planes. I love the default secondary at both planes, so I wont change that. The problem lies in turning radius range and speed, also better at Zero. Basically Zero has no con as of now in comparison with Corsair. In my experience with SPIT when we betatested spit with 8 was inferior to the default one. The best thing was  area covered by those lmgs not the dps. But Dice is repeating mistakes done in the past. Spit was better than BF-109 initially, so Zero is the new SPIT. Seriously I would ve expected that ZERO has less armour, but DICE logic is solid as a rock. Zero has better spec tree, better turning radius, less hit box area and is tanking bullets like a boss, better gun convergence and stalling rate is identical to Corsair. Serioulsy I dont get Dice idea about balance.  
    Yeah I have all the new planes at level 6 and I also find that the zeros are harder to dogfight against. It feels like if they already have a default improved surface control in comparison.
    The default secondary cannons are not that great against planes imho, All the air tryhards will probably have this spec: 6 HMGs, Manual Supercharger (speed boost toggle) and improved control surfaces with maybe the 8x FFA rockets.
    You have to practice a little that secondary. It is sooo good against planes, aim in front of the plane and burst fire cause overheating is an issue. Aside that is glorious. I am pretty sure they gonna nerf badly ZERO, and here we go again. Corsair will beast skies for a while and after 2 more years they gonna balance those planes like they should from the start.
    I am hitting the planes with the autocannons but since that upgrade to HE, they do like 1 damage per hit. Maybe they lose their impact damage when they become HE.
  • barnesalmighty2
    1632 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    (Quote)
    Not true, the truth is Corsair is way worse than Zero now. The gun convergence is absolutely garbage, I need 2x more time to kill a Zero than a Corsair in the same exact scenario. Just because you have no aerial threat, even though probably you had no decent pilots vs in that game... Zero spec tree is way better than Corsair, so be happy while you can. I have no problems dogfighting Zeros but always when I down one another one is at my 6. Takes ages to down them.

    Who said anything about the corsair I'm talking about the fliegerfaust, but I'm always happy flying no matter what the plane is. I just can't get over how effective napalm is, now I want it for all my planes.
  • barnesalmighty2
    1632 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    (Quote)
    I am hitting the planes with the autocannons but since that upgrade to HE, they do like 1 damage per hit. Maybe they lose their impact damage when they become HE.

    I use the HE to kill people in landing crafts it's not great against planes.
  • An_Dulachan
    425 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    They all become OP whenever someone gets killed by them.
  • Turban_Legend80
    4753 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    edited November 2019
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    @Trokey66 - It still isn’t great in every situation. That was my point. So it is indeed a bad example.
    Also, it’s funny that you call other people pedants when only a pedant would make a thread like this 🤷🏻‍♂️

    @barnesalmighty2 - Ah man, Bazaar was definitely the best map for it. I only had around 600 pre need kills (I felt too guilty using it lol) but I think most of those 600 were on Bazaar. I’d love to see some footage of you running and sniping people with the USAS. That sounds amazing...

    I didn't say it was great just not that bad, after all, you said it did no damage to vehicles when it does.

    And not sure how this thread makes me a pendant but hey.....

    Oh, and C flag on Sienne Crossing, upstairs. Unstoppable as long as you had ammo.

    I said “it does no damage to vehicles (if memory serves me correctly)”. Which means I wasn’t sure, so what I said was not stated as fact. Pretty obvious, but deviate if you must. The fact remains it’s not great in all situations, which has always been my point. No deviation from me.

    Do you even know the meaning of pedant? If you don’t, you shouldn’t use it.

    I don’t even know what your third point is referencing.

    Well I clarified that it does so that's that settled.

    I do and given that I have said that the test is a 'yard stick' by which one may determine if a 'thing' could be considered OP, is hardly obsessing about minor details but you on the other hand......

    And as to my third point, re read the post I quoted, especially the third bit.

    You clarified it does what? What’s been settled lol
    The fact STILL remains it is not good in all circumstances.

    Most people understand what somebody means when they say things like “that’s OP”, or “thats way OP”, or “thats slightly OP”. Nobody has ever asked for a thread to tell us what is or what isn’t OP.

    Only one person has made a thread like this. And you have now done it twice!

    You are the only one who feels the need to break it down into finer details.
    A true pedant.


    And stop with the “it’s a yard stick” trash. You are clearly using it in an attempt to “prove” the FF is not OP. Just give up lol
  • StupidNameHere
    191 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    "Im going to go swat some bothersome flies."
    ~Liquid
  • Trokey66
    9163 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    @Trokey66 - It still isn’t great in every situation. That was my point. So it is indeed a bad example.
    Also, it’s funny that you call other people pedants when only a pedant would make a thread like this 🤷🏻‍♂️

    @barnesalmighty2 - Ah man, Bazaar was definitely the best map for it. I only had around 600 pre need kills (I felt too guilty using it lol) but I think most of those 600 were on Bazaar. I’d love to see some footage of you running and sniping people with the USAS. That sounds amazing...

    I didn't say it was great just not that bad, after all, you said it did no damage to vehicles when it does.

    And not sure how this thread makes me a pendant but hey.....

    Oh, and C flag on Sienne Crossing, upstairs. Unstoppable as long as you had ammo.

    I said “it does no damage to vehicles (if memory serves me correctly)”. Which means I wasn’t sure, so what I said was not stated as fact. Pretty obvious, but deviate if you must. The fact remains it’s not great in all situations, which has always been my point. No deviation from me.

    Do you even know the meaning of pedant? If you don’t, you shouldn’t use it.

    I don’t even know what your third point is referencing.

    Well I clarified that it does so that's that settled.

    I do and given that I have said that the test is a 'yard stick' by which one may determine if a 'thing' could be considered OP, is hardly obsessing about minor details but you on the other hand......

    And as to my third point, re read the post I quoted, especially the third bit.

    You clarified it does what? What’s been settled lol
    The fact STILL remains it is not good in all circumstances.

    Most people understand what somebody means when they say things like “that’s OP”, or “thats way OP”, or “thats slightly OP”. Nobody has ever asked for a thread to tell us what is or what isn’t OP.

    Only one person has made a thread like this. And you have now done it twice!

    You are the only one who feels the need to break it down into finer details.
    A true pedant.


    And stop with the “it’s a yard stick” trash. You are clearly using it in an attempt to “prove” the FF is not OP. Just give up lol

    But I haven't used it yet, I have however, flown on the new maps and didn't get hit by one.

    I know, me flying.....!

    And this thread is NOT the sole preserve of the Fleegleflappenfluffen, that was just an example given recent trends, others turned it into a FF thread.
  • MarxistDictator
    5340 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Vehicle bad infantry killer only op we get it

    Honestly though after the unlimited incendiary round gun for o ring splintered players in BF1 this thing came as no surprise.
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