Weekly BF

Fliegerfaust Overpowered - DICE get your balancing straight!

Comments

  • Hawxxeye
    5956 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Playing pacific storm right now and # 1 player in a zero. Incendiary bombs are to much, guy was 68-2 and we didn’t get past next to last objective.
    I prefer the big bombs on the left here, plus you can deploy minefields as well to the dismay of the tanks bellow
  • TheyHaveScissors
    771 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Wait until you come up against good pilots flying the zero's in the pacific maps, you will want to increase the fliegerfaust.  Guy last night, 67-1, dropping incendiary bombs and we couldn't touch him.  There are many video's on youtube showing zero pilots wrecking havoc.  One guy went 91-6 and had the nerve to say anti-aircraft weapons need to be nerfed.  I suck at flying, so don't even try against good pilots, but don't think America's counter to the zero matches up.

    I've seen this too. They can only be beaten in dogfights, but they excel at that, no way there is a hard counter to them.

    We still cant counter ace pilots in BF5, especially with no MAA around (the pacific MAA-spec on the light tank is not as powerful nor effective against them).
    I see them outranging the SAA-guns and shooting the operator out before the SAA can land enough damage on them. It's the same old story again.

    DICE still has a major problem with air-ground balance. 

    Now they probably nerfing the Fliegerfaust, it will only emphasize the problem further.

    I dont think DICE knows what it's doing with the meta.

  • Hawxxeye
    5956 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Wait until you come up against good pilots flying the zero's in the pacific maps, you will want to increase the fliegerfaust.  Guy last night, 67-1, dropping incendiary bombs and we couldn't touch him.  There are many video's on youtube showing zero pilots wrecking havoc.  One guy went 91-6 and had the nerve to say anti-aircraft weapons need to be nerfed.  I suck at flying, so don't even try against good pilots, but don't think America's counter to the zero matches up.

    I've seen this too. They can only be beaten in dogfights, but they excel at that, no way there is a hard counter to them.

    We still cant counter ace pilots in BF5, especially with no MAA around (the pacific MAA-spec on the light tank is not as powerful nor effective against them).
    I see them outranging the SAA-guns and shooting the operator out before the SAA can land enough damage on them. It's the same old story again.

    DICE still has a major problem with air-ground balance. 

    Now they probably nerfing the Fliegerfaust, it will only emphasize the problem further.

    I dont think DICE knows what it's doing with the meta.

    I do not understand how DICE operates. On one hand they nerf to the ground any effective for of an Air to ground defense. One would the think they had the pilots best interests at heart.
    Then on the other hand they ignore long time plane bugs that make planes less fun to use.
  • Rusty5p00n
    2 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Yes, its getting tiring if you have a good Zero pilot with stuff unlocked, they can basically wreck teams, and there is little really you can do to stop them, Fliegerfaust  can't even hit them at range and try to use AA turrets they they just wreck you at range.

    Either balance planes and remove this instant ammo restock, or make it so planes can repair.

    There needs to be a fair balnce between the two is its not at all fun to be constantly shot from the air and have little fair counter.
  • Hawxxeye
    5956 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Yes, its getting tiring if you have a good Zero pilot with stuff unlocked, they can basically wreck teams, and there is little really you can do to stop them, Fliegerfaust  can't even hit them at range and try to use AA turrets they they just wreck you at range.

    Either balance planes and remove this instant ammo restock, or make it so planes can repair.

    There needs to be a fair balnce between the two is its not at all fun to be constantly shot from the air and have little fair counter.
    Imho the AA guns should had been enough of a threat that the pilots should need to request the allied ground forces to disable it instead of being able to smack it head on.
    As a pilot I see the current AA guns as either a) a bothersome pest if I am busy with another threat b) a free kill if I am not preoccupied.
  • IDirtY_SeCreT
    541 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    VincentNZ said:
    they do not plan to reduce its full potential but to make it somehow harder to reach that potential. Fair enough I guess.
    You have an engagement window of say 3s per vehicle, mostly when they are doing the dive and just above you. Since the range seems to be 300m, you can not rely on a full or hit at all. And then you still need somebody else to do the rest, or have done somethig prior.
    You also need to get through 100+x to accomodate for fast repair, and you need to be able to secure at least an assist count as kill, otherwise it will not be used. If you tweak it so it regulalry does, say, 60 damage for the average user, you suddenly need three people to kill it and only one will get a kill on the scoreboard or any amount of points. 
    That is not incentivizing the use of a gadget, that is simply unrewarding. Just like engaging vehicles in general.
    The charm of the FF lies within getting 60-500 points for one shot, with a good chance of netting a kill (or even two people). The downside is the short engagement opportunity. Compare that to the PIAT or PF when engaging a vehicle. You have the potential to get 400 points, after you depleted your whole ammo on it, or somebody else gets it, as vehicles are often swarmed. Mostly you will come out of it with 40 points and no ammo left while putting yourself at a high risk. That is unrewarding as anything.
    Give something similar to the FF and you will only see it on Fjell and nowhere else. The incentive to even run it on Mercury or Al-Sundan is low and non-existant on any other map. Additionally any change will keep novice pilots at bay and offer free reign to the pilots that have a higher maneuverability.

    Yep that's the typical "me first" logic. I really don't understand this, since for me BF should be a teamplay focused game, where personal stats might be important but the win should be most important. If I would only play for my personal points, why would I even play such game at all? It's like playing football and only care about the goals you score. Killing vehicles can often decide between win and loss and I for one can live with teammates "stealing" my frag/points cause I know destroying a vehicle helps our team. But it seems af if I'm in the minority when I look at BFV. Modern gamers somehow tend to think, I will only use a gadget if it gets me X points or X kills asm reward. Helping the team doesn't mean anything anymore... You don't believe me? How often do you see Recon's using flairs or usefull spawn beacons compared to the sheer number of them per team? Or how many people will abuse assault due to the weapons instead of playing medic (on non infantry-focused maps)?
  • VincentNZ
    3172 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    VincentNZ said:
    they do not plan to reduce its full potential but to make it somehow harder to reach that potential. Fair enough I guess.
    You have an engagement window of say 3s per vehicle, mostly when they are doing the dive and just above you. Since the range seems to be 300m, you can not rely on a full or hit at all. And then you still need somebody else to do the rest, or have done somethig prior.
    You also need to get through 100+x to accomodate for fast repair, and you need to be able to secure at least an assist count as kill, otherwise it will not be used. If you tweak it so it regulalry does, say, 60 damage for the average user, you suddenly need three people to kill it and only one will get a kill on the scoreboard or any amount of points. 
    That is not incentivizing the use of a gadget, that is simply unrewarding. Just like engaging vehicles in general.
    The charm of the FF lies within getting 60-500 points for one shot, with a good chance of netting a kill (or even two people). The downside is the short engagement opportunity. Compare that to the PIAT or PF when engaging a vehicle. You have the potential to get 400 points, after you depleted your whole ammo on it, or somebody else gets it, as vehicles are often swarmed. Mostly you will come out of it with 40 points and no ammo left while putting yourself at a high risk. That is unrewarding as anything.
    Give something similar to the FF and you will only see it on Fjell and nowhere else. The incentive to even run it on Mercury or Al-Sundan is low and non-existant on any other map. Additionally any change will keep novice pilots at bay and offer free reign to the pilots that have a higher maneuverability.

    Yep that's the typical "me first" logic. I really don't understand this, since for me BF should be a teamplay focused game, where personal stats might be important but the win should be most important. If I would only play for my personal points, why would I even play such game at all? It's like playing football and only care about the goals you score. Killing vehicles can often decide between win and loss and I for one can live with teammates "stealing" my frag/points cause I know destroying a vehicle helps our team. But it seems af if I'm in the minority when I look at BFV. Modern gamers somehow tend to think, I will only use a gadget if it gets me X points or X kills asm reward. Helping the team doesn't mean anything anymore... You don't believe me? How often do you see Recon's using flairs or usefull spawn beacons compared to the sheer number of them per team? Or how many people will abuse assault due to the weapons instead of playing medic (on non infantry-focused maps)?
    Hence the use of gadgets need be to incentivized. There are different ways to go about it, but the easiest is through points. That is why we got kill assists, vehicle hit points, kill assists as kills etc.. That is also why reviving is so darn productive, as are spot assists. The only thing that is not productive from a score POV is going after vehicles, although, as you point out it is the one crucial role of the franchise.
    And that is why the PIATs can OHK infantry, and the Assault has the "best" as in most versatile primaries. Just to balance the scoreboard.
    .
    That is just how players are. All of us, too. I mean you surely do not man the planes because of the teamplay value, which is very debatable, especially for fighters. You play it because it boosts even your already high K/D. That is where the fun is at. If you can rack up some cool teamplay actions while you are at it, just the better.
    And here the FF vs. PIAT comes into play again. Vehicles can only be countered when close and this is usually the case on flags. So Assaults engage with a lower risk and have a chance to get a kill +400 points, or just 40 points for taking part. That is not rewarding, but you do your job.
    With the FF equipped, you have only a small portion of the engagement time, and in that time you need to inflict the maximum damage, otherwise the shot is wasted. It is like a miss with a PIAT. And you still need to have one other guy inflicting damage, so that it becomes really worthwhile. Take that away by reducing the damage or less accurate and you take away all the incentive to use this gadget as it offers nothing of value.
  • DRUNKMONKEY9821
    92 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Aa guns kill called aim in front and fire one **** at a time 4 hits and there down
  • ElliotLH
    8532 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Aa guns kill called aim in front and fire one **** at a time 4 hits and there down

    Think your auto correct may have got you there :D
  • VincentNZ
    3172 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    ElliotLH said:
    Aa guns kill called aim in front and fire one **** at a time 4 hits and there down

    Think your auto correct may have got you there :D
    Or indeed a Drunken Monkey typed that. :smiley: Typing on a cellphone or tablet is such a hassle, about time that they project keyboards on a surface...
  • mf_shro0m
    1666 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    (Quote)
    Imho the AA guns should had been enough of a threat that the pilots should need to request the allied ground forces to disable it instead of being able to smack it head on.As a pilot I see the current AA guns as either a) a bothersome pest if I am busy with another threat b) a free kill if I am not preoccupied.

    Am I missing an armour upgrade or something? If a hostile plane I’m chasing flies over a hostile AA that I didn’t see that thing usually does enough damage to me that I need to peel off and repair
  • mf_shro0m
    1666 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I think the first thing dice needs to do is make the increased manoeuvrability spec a tier 1 unlock because that thing means that rookie pilots don’t stand a chance against veterans and so won’t bother and might just go infantry

    The best way for dice to deal with pro pilots getting mad KDs is to introduce a team balancing system and make the player’s effectiveness in vehicles a factor in the balancing so games where there are two pro pilots will have one on each team
  • Hawxxeye
    5956 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 7
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    (Quote)
    Imho the AA guns should had been enough of a threat that the pilots should need to request the allied ground forces to disable it instead of being able to smack it head on.As a pilot I see the current AA guns as either a) a bothersome pest if I am busy with another threat b) a free kill if I am not preoccupied.

    Am I missing an armour upgrade or something? If a hostile plane I’m chasing flies over a hostile AA that I didn’t see that thing usually does enough damage to me that I need to peel off and repair
    Yeah, your plane should had gone kaput from that if you went deep enough.
    It is extremely demotivating to attack a plane only for it to flee and come back alter at full health :(
  • TheyHaveScissors
    771 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye said:
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    (Quote)
    Imho the AA guns should had been enough of a threat that the pilots should need to request the allied ground forces to disable it instead of being able to smack it head on.As a pilot I see the current AA guns as either a) a bothersome pest if I am busy with another threat b) a free kill if I am not preoccupied.

    Am I missing an armour upgrade or something? If a hostile plane I’m chasing flies over a hostile AA that I didn’t see that thing usually does enough damage to me that I need to peel off and repair
    Yeah, your plane should had gone kaput from that if you went deep enough.
    It is extremely demotivating to attack a plane only for it to flee and come back alter at full health :(
    This alone heavily discourages any infantry from shooting at planes with their maingun. Its pointless. Literally pointless. MMG AA bullets are a waste in this game imo. I dont even know why that spec is in the game.
  • mf_shro0m
    1666 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    (Quote)
    Yeah, your plane should had gone kaput from that if you went deep enough.It is extremely demotivating to attack a plane only for it to flee and come back alter at full health :(

    It often does and I only survive if I manouvre well enough in good time

    What I’m saying is that atm if your plane flies near a hostile AA that sees you it does plenty of damage

    You also can’t stop pro pilots going like 30-1 by buffing AAs alone because if AAs were good at taking out planes at long distance the game would be broken and so I think the key to this is to even the planes put more so lesser pilots aren’t completely screwed against pros. Even if the lesser pilots can’t stop the pros even if they just threaten them the pros won’t be able to just farm infantry who’re the source of all the complaints
  • Pyr0Plazma
    395 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Anything remotely effective at killing pilots=OP. You guys have to understand a large percentage of them play Battlefield exclusively for planes and won't do anything else. So it's in their best interest to be borderline untouchable in the sky. 
  • Man_ILoveFishing
    152 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Anything remotely effective at killing pilots=OP. You guys have to understand a large percentage of them play Battlefield exclusively for planes and won't do anything else. So it's in their best interest to be borderline untouchable in the sky. 
    It's not in our best interest to be borderline untouchable in the sky, realize that. We don't have much cover in air. Also "omg planes farming, low skill" and now assaults are rewarded with basically OHK weapon that needs "skill". And don't forget, there are 2-3 planes, while there can be 1-32 MAAs on legs.
  • Hawxxeye
    5956 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 8
    Meanwhile the tanker who is not camping on a (mostly) safe space but is trying to capture and defend objectives by being inside them...
    Assaults everywhere, who breed like rabbits inside the grassy hills and peek out from their holes to shoot while being protected by almost all the shots by the indestructible folliage

  • luky31
    7 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Fliegerfaust is great weapon. Finally something usefull against planes. AA is very nerfed. DICE thanks for Fliegerfaust  and save it in thi condition.




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