5.2 TTK change [Megathread]

Comments

  • FranzJeger
    82 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AFoQ3loUQY

    Basically confirms what everyone already thought, Dice management what to sell more copies of the game to appease Christmas n00bs players. What they have grossly underestimated is how many existing players will leave this game after they implement these changes. 

    How on earth can anyone on earth be so out of touch with their customer base?? Literally W...T...F??? BF 6 better be one of the best games ever or else this franchise will die out. 
    Well, they should. The older players are few and far in between. The game needs newer players or this game will dead by spring. If you had the numbers, they wouldn't have to do it, but when more folks are playing Skyrim remastered than this game before the trial, that may be the sign of trouble lol.
    The game isn't dying because of gunnplay, that's one of the few positive aspects of this game that is genuinely good. The game has been dying because of  release state of the game, poor QA, bugs gallore. Put that on top that Dice called players stupid and uneducated for not agreeing to their narrow minded woke agenda and not releasing any good maps before almost a year after release. They asked for this themselves. 

    Maybe next time Dice wants to release a BF game they should make sure the game is completed before launch day and not pushing bull.... woke agendas.
  • xBCxSEALxTEAMx6
    1492 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AFoQ3loUQY

    Basically confirms what everyone already thought, Dice management what to sell more copies of the game to appease Christmas n00bs players. What they have grossly underestimated is how many existing players will leave this game after they implement these changes. 

    How on earth can anyone on earth be so out of touch with their customer base?? Literally W...T...F??? BF 6 better be one of the best games ever or else this franchise will die out. 
    Well, they should. The older players are few and far in between. The game needs newer players or this game will dead by spring. If you had the numbers, they wouldn't have to do it, but when more folks are playing Skyrim remastered than this game before the trial, that may be the sign of trouble lol.
    The game isn't dying because of gunnplay, that's one of the few positive aspects of this game that is genuinely good. The game has been dying because of  release state of the game, poor QA, bugs gallore. Put that on top that Dice called players stupid and uneducated for not agreeing to their narrow minded woke agenda and not releasing any good maps before almost a year after release. They asked for this themselves. 

    Maybe next time Dice wants to release a BF game they should make sure the game is completed before launch day and not pushing bull.... woke agendas.
    Well, respectfully, we don't know that at all. It did sell 7 million copies. But where are the players? What i'm saying, is only DICE knows the rationale, has the data, and could make a determination. Not the few of us on social media.
  • VincentNZ
    3885 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    If the gameplay in BFV was great and there was a solid player base. DICE management wouldn't be stepping in and making changes to this game a year after release.
    That is again saying, that the gunplay is the reason why people do not like this game and that other factors we have been seeing since May 2018 are irrelevant. BFV core gameplay is decent. Everything surrounding it is utter crap and has been like that in said timeframe.
  • FranzJeger
    82 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AFoQ3loUQY

    Basically confirms what everyone already thought, Dice management what to sell more copies of the game to appease Christmas n00bs players. What they have grossly underestimated is how many existing players will leave this game after they implement these changes. 

    How on earth can anyone on earth be so out of touch with their customer base?? Literally W...T...F??? BF 6 better be one of the best games ever or else this franchise will die out. 
    Well, they should. The older players are few and far in between. The game needs newer players or this game will dead by spring. If you had the numbers, they wouldn't have to do it, but when more folks are playing Skyrim remastered than this game before the trial, that may be the sign of trouble lol.
    The game isn't dying because of gunnplay, that's one of the few positive aspects of this game that is genuinely good. The game has been dying because of  release state of the game, poor QA, bugs gallore. Put that on top that Dice called players stupid and uneducated for not agreeing to their narrow minded woke agenda and not releasing any good maps before almost a year after release. They asked for this themselves. 

    Maybe next time Dice wants to release a BF game they should make sure the game is completed before launch day and not pushing bull.... woke agendas.
    Well, respectfully, we don't know that at all. It did sell 7 million copies. But where are the players? What i'm saying, is only DICE knows the rationale, has the data, and could make a determination. Not the few of us on social media.
    It's pretty safe to say that the sheer amount of bugs this game launched with, and that persisted for at least 6 months after combined with the low amount of content released, is a major factor for BFV's downfall. 

    People are now finally starting to notice companies that releases quality products at launch, and wants to support consumer friendly corporations like CDPR or Obsidian. Dice needs to step up and release quality products and not treating customers like stupid sheep.
  • menaceuk
    54 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AFoQ3loUQY

    Basically confirms what everyone already thought, Dice management what to sell more copies of the game to appease Christmas n00bs players. What they have grossly underestimated is how many existing players will leave this game after they implement these changes. 

    How on earth can anyone on earth be so out of touch with their customer base?? Literally W...T...F??? BF 6 better be one of the best games ever or else this franchise will die out. 
    Well, they should. The older players are few and far in between. The game needs newer players or this game will dead by spring. If you had the numbers, they wouldn't have to do it, but when more folks are playing Skyrim remastered than this game before the trial, that may be the sign of trouble lol.
    The game isn't dying because of gunnplay, that's one of the few positive aspects of this game that is genuinely good. The game has been dying because of  release state of the game, poor QA, bugs gallore. Put that on top that Dice called players stupid and uneducated for not agreeing to their narrow minded woke agenda and not releasing any good maps before almost a year after release. They asked for this themselves. 

    Maybe next time Dice wants to release a BF game they should make sure the game is completed before launch day and not pushing bull.... woke agendas.
    Well, respectfully, we don't know that at all. It did sell 7 million copies. But where are the players? What i'm saying, is only DICE knows the rationale, has the data, and could make a determination. Not the few of us on social media.
    Data can be very misleading.

    Last year they said people were dying and turning the game off was the reason for the TTK changes, but that is dumb. It could easily have been half a dozen other reasons, like....terrible weapon balancing, one frame deaths, unable to see people killing them, etc. 

    They need to listen to the people actually playing the game. There are wide range of groups from hardcore to casuals on this forum, twitter, reddit, etc. If the TTK or BTk was the issue ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ would be dcreaming for it to be changed.
  • GRAW2ROBZ
    2634 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
  • CnConrad
    1195 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Hello, after reconsideration of the data - or lack thereof - and the facts, I am looking forward to 5.2. Why? DICE aren't directly changing the TTK. They gave us a few graphs from the most popular weapons that make the TTK look longer. For all we know about these changes, the graphs could match other weapons in the game now. If that is the case, the TTK isn't changing, those weapons are just getting nerfed.

    We don't know what less used weapons will become. The TTK for those weapons might be getting shorter, and because we lack that data, I can't conclude that the TTK is getting longer across the board.

    There is an issue with the less used weapons. Take the Thompson vs the EMP for example. The Thompson has a fast RoF, high magazine, and great damage model over range. This makes the weapon useful in close quarters and mid-range. The EMP has a lower damage model, a slower RoF, and a smaller magazine. This makes the weapon obsolete in close quarters because it just isn't useful there. The lower recoil is supposed to make it useful at mid-range, but the Thompson can still trump it due to its overall better balanced stats.

    This issue is what 5.2 is attempting to tackle. Weapons like the EMP and MP40 should be more useful at the ranges they're supposed to be good at, instead of getting trumped by the Thompson.

    This isn't like last December where the TTK is getting longer across the board. The announcement admitted to needing to balance each weapon one by one. This means that the TTK could be getting shorter or longer, depending upon the weapon. Yet we lack the proper data to conclude that the TTK is changing.

    And, balance changes aside, we're getting Community Games and Wake Island. So I am looking forward to 5.2. Please stop pressuring DICE to not change the TTK. We barely even have the full picture as to what they're doing.

    Thanks for the updates!

    🙎🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

    If they made the M1A1 an 8HK at 50m and didn’t nerf the rest of the SARs the M1A1 would be made utterly obsolete

    If they the Tommy a 6HK at 10m (when 20m and 30m engagements are commonplace in-game) it would become simply worse than the sten, mp40, etc at distances over 10m and with the sten’s superior accuracy it wouldn’t even be close unless they also nerfed all the other SMGs

    The same applies with all the other examples and we’ve also been presented with examples from ARs, MMGs and PCs meaning that most guns in the game will need nerfs. Then after that if the STG and M1A1 get a nerfs and the other ARs and SARs also get nerfed then you can’t not nerf the LMGs otherwise they’ll be indisputably the best guns in the game. The game would be even more unbalanced than it was at launch and so they’d have to nerf the LMGs too. By this point you’ve nerfed about 80% of the guns in the game and there could be even more ripples after that

    That is the data we're missing. And they said upfront RoF is being changed. The Thompson could take 100 bullets to kill at 20m, but if it's RoF is 5,000 it won't matter much assuming the magazine is large enough. And they also admitted to changing the magazine count.

    We literally don't know how they're going to balance everything.


    So rather than make some minor tweaks your hope is that they turn all the guns into syfi cartoon weapons that don't even have a resemblance to their historical counterpart.


    That is your best case scenario for defending dice? You are hoping we get borderlands guns.
  • TectonicGuns
    353 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    IMHO. the currently fast TTK is partly a result from netcode. An observation while playing is the enemy actually seem to "move" faster in all actions than you do. To me this suggests they shoot faster, too.  Fixing this. if possible, would help newbie not feel overwhelmed when playing and result in more player retention. 

    Anyone else "Feel" the enemy moves significantly faster than you do?
  • Trokey66
    9085 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2019
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    (Quote)
    That is again saying, that the gunplay is the reason why people do not like this game and that other factors we have been seeing since May 2018 are irrelevant. BFV core gameplay is decent. Everything surrounding it is utter crap and has been like that in said timeframe.

    Nobody is saying that though!

    But why can't you accept that gunplay is on of numerous contributing factors that have resulted in an ever and rapidly diminishing player base!

    Nobody is suggesting that all the other factors haven't contributed but come on!

    To continue insisting that it absolutely fine and has little to nothing to do with it is asinine.
    Post edited by Trokey66 on
  • NuttysKunKs
    563 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Is this game still in beta?

    BFV is one big experiment!
  • CnConrad
    1195 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    (Quote)
    That is again saying, that the gunplay is the reason why people do not like this game and that other factors we have been seeing since May 2018 are irrelevant. BFV core gameplay is decent. Everything surrounding it is utter crap and has been like that in said timeframe.

    Nobody is saying that though!

    But why can't you accept that gunplay is on of numerous contributing factorstirs that have resulted in an every and rapidly diminishing player base!

    Nobody is suggesting that all the other factors haven't contributed but come on!

    To continue insisting that it absolutely fine and has little to nothing to do with it is asinine.

    But, it isn't. Gunplay is the only reason many are still playing. Ttk is no faster than it was in bf3 or bf4.

    This was a terribly marketed game that was buggy and got very poor support. It focused on the part of WW 2 that none of their customers were interested inand it was another "old time" game following bf1. People were ready for a modern game. Ww2 should have came out later. It also should have focused on the Americans. They are the main customers and they are who you needed to hook.


    In bf3/4 you had tons of 800+ rpm automatic weapons that never took more than 6 bullets to kill. So please explain how this has a higher ttk.
  • VincentNZ
    3885 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Trokey66 said:
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    (Quote)
    That is again saying, that the gunplay is the reason why people do not like this game and that other factors we have been seeing since May 2018 are irrelevant. BFV core gameplay is decent. Everything surrounding it is utter crap and has been like that in said timeframe.

    Nobody is saying that though!

    But why can't you accept that gunplay is on of numerous contributing factorstirs that have resulted in an every and rapidly diminishing player base!

    Nobody is suggesting that all the other factors haven't contributed but come on!

    To continue insisting that it absolutely fine and has little to nothing to do with it is asinine.
    I acknowledged that in the previous post. However you assume, since it is your opinion that gunplay caused people to leave. Probably. But as you can see here it also caused people to play the game and/or stay. Hence it is like our favourite ToW assignment a zero-sum-game at the very least. Equally pulling people in and pushing them out, although I'd argue that the backlash means that it mostly pulling people in.
  • Trokey66
    9085 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2019
    CnConrad wrote: »
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    (Quote)
    That is again saying, that the gunplay is the reason why people do not like this game and that other factors we have been seeing since May 2018 are irrelevant. BFV core gameplay is decent. Everything surrounding it is utter crap and has been like that in said timeframe.

    Nobody is saying that though!

    But why can't you accept that gunplay is on of numerous contributing factorstirs that have resulted in an every and rapidly diminishing player base!

    Nobody is suggesting that all the other factors haven't contributed but come on!

    To continue insisting that it absolutely fine and has little to nothing to do with it is asinine.

    But, it isn't. Gunplay is the only reason many are still playing. Ttk is no faster than it was in bf3 or bf4.

    This was a terribly marketed game that was buggy and got very poor support. It focused on the part of WW 2 that none of their customers were interested inand it was another "old time" game following bf1. People were ready for a modern game. Ww2 should have came out later. It also should have focused on the Americans. They are the main customers and they are who you needed to hook.


    In bf3/4 you had tons of 800+ rpm automatic weapons that never took more than 6 bullets to kill. So please explain how this has a higher ttk.

    Oh I don't know, how about a strong suppression mechanic that made actual TTK higher than 'on paper' TTK under many circumstances for one?

    In general terms, 'spread mechanics' were noticeably stronger in those games meaning that actual TTK was often higher than 'on paper' TTK.

    And as to your first point, what keeps players playing is irrelevant. If you enjoy the current TTK, well done, I'm happy for you. But what about the players that have stopped player?

    Are you going to tell me that I actually like the TTK and the reason I don't play much anymore is because of wimmin?
  • CHAMMOND1992
    1394 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2019
    Trokey66 said:
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    (Quote)

    Yeah, but then you could just as well say, that the one well-received feature of this game is a contributing factor to keep players playing the game, right?

    If you are suggesting that this 'one we'll received feature' is the ONLY reason they continue to play then no, it is not a contributing factor.

    That is not what a contributing factor is. It is not the sole reason for something happening but is one of a number reasons that must be considered.

    Yet there are many in this thread that are claiming unequivocally, that gunplay is NOT a contributing factor in players leaving just because they like it. That may be true for them but not for those that have left.
    They'll say gunplay is *just* a contributing factor, but the rest of their rhetoric afterwards implies it was actually the most significant enough issue that caused people to leave in droves, when its obvious the bugs, lack of content and PR controversies, are greater factors as to what made this game hurt in sales at launch.
  • CHAMMOND1992
    1394 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    GRAW2ROBZ said:
    lol I knew this would happen,  hence why I just stopped arguing about it. 
  • Trokey66
    9085 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    (Quote)
    They'll say gunplay is *just* a contributing factor, but the rest of their rhetoric afterwards implies it was actually a significant enough issue to cause people to leave in droves, when its obvious the bugs, lack of content and PR controversies, are greater factors as to what made this game hurt in sales at launch.

    The only thing we can say is that it is a contributing factor.

    Indeed, it could be bundled up with what many have dubbed the 'hardcore lite' approach.

    I do not doubt that the other factors you mention did contribute either but we can't quantify any of them with any certainty but can't dismiss gunplay either just because a significant number of those remaining like it.

    Bare in mind this for me is more about player retention rather than initial sales.
  • SmileAsTheyDie
    502 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    mf_shro0m said:

    I never said that gunplay isn’t a factor, I said it’s one of many

    Suppression isn’t in BFV and I think the suppression in BFV needs to be buffed halfway to what BF4’s suppression was like

    BF4’s spread has been replaced by an additional factor in recoil which can be controlled to a greater extent with skill than spread can. I don’t think that’s a bad thing and overall there’s actually more recoil in BFV than in any other BF

    Effective TTKs in BF4 were at least as fast but thanks to the netcode issues BFV’s feels faster at times. That is however not by design is due to a problem with the netcode. If we want to solve the TTD issues we should evidently ask Dice to spend their time fixing the netcode. Seeing as BF4 is seen by most as being the GOAT BF and BF1’s TTK2 increased the number of players, it’s pretty clear that BF4 and BFI TTK2-sequel TTKs are what Dice should be aiming for.
    Until they fix the netcode we won’t actually be getting a feel of the game as it’s meant to be

    The biggest problems with BFV’s actual gunplay are the remaining imbalances. ARs and SMGs aren’t much better than SARs at short-medium range and that shouldn’t be the case. LMGs are inferior to SARs at medium range which shouldn’t be the case either. 99.9% of BA users can’t use BAs which were staples in WWII at less than 100m and ptfo with them because the BAs have been nerfed to hell. SLRs are just SARs with more recoil, scope flint and damage drop.
    If these and the netcode were fixed and map design improved consistently the game would feel so much better
    The spread was just minimized and goes through a spread to recoil conversion. You are just simply impacted less thus making the gunplay easier.

    Also depends on the weapon, Some of the higher RPM weapons like the 1907 or Suomi have decent levels of recoil but then you have weapons like the semi autos which have no HRec and no spread increase, all you have to deal with is VRec and the minspread.

    BF1's TTK2 didn't increase the number of players at all.
  • aquadude79
    84 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    The damage-over-distance reduction could be great if it gets more people to finally feel the rush of actually standing in a cap zone, and not 55m off it, prone, going 13-3 for 4400 points over 28 minutes of playtime as a medic.

    make SMGs do 0 damage past 50m. why are you engaging enemy from 50m+ with an SMG in the first place? probably because after lying in your bush for four minutes and not seeing anybody, just too exciting to not shoot when you finally do? ditto assault rifles. you SHOULD BE CLOSE to your enemy.

    maybe...MAYBE this change will make breakthrough a playable mode, rather than two sides staring at each other from 150m doing like, target practice.
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