Nerf ADAD spam, strafe speed and bunny hopping.

Comments

  • InS_Hypno
    103 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    InS_Hypno said:
    people who hate the movement in this game are people who can't use it
    *sigh*...can use it just fine, how do you not use movement?

    I feel the people who are against it don't know enough about games to realise there is an issue with the change in direction.
    The game has slow bullets with a lot of low rate of fire/semi auto weapons with small ammo capacity, if you have 8 bullets and you need to lead your target because the bullets are slow AND your target can change direction in an instant then the game suddenly makes any aiming skill you have useless. On top of that due to the fact that lag exists, people at a higher pings(obviously not talking about 100+, rather just higher than average...60-80) get hit hard with this due to the position correction, those changes in direction become twice as fast due to the game having to get the character model back to it's actual position so they sort of warp back so quick even the walking animation can't keep up. At least with a momentum system the movement still looks natural and the correction speed up balances out with momentum slow down.

    It's not about not using movement correctly or not being able to aim, there is a fundamental flaw in the logic of that game design.
    Or maybe you shouldn't balance a game around people with high ping and encourage people to queud in their region

    Only thing we need to get rid off is the speed upgrade when aiming down sight the rest is fine

    And yes I will say it get good, if the movement is your biggest issue in this game its a you problem not a game problem
  • InS_Hypno
    103 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 29
    Kunstula said:
    InS_Hypno said:


    And yes I will say it get good, if the movement is your biggest issue in this game its a you problem not a game problem
    And yet this very same issue was tackled in BF1, so you're dead wrong. It's a game problem.
    I love going on bf stats and confirming most of the time that people that holds those opinions are bots at said game
  • Matty101yttam
    1141 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    InS_Hypno said:
    InS_Hypno said:
    people who hate the movement in this game are people who can't use it
    *sigh*...can use it just fine, how do you not use movement?

    I feel the people who are against it don't know enough about games to realise there is an issue with the change in direction.
    The game has slow bullets with a lot of low rate of fire/semi auto weapons with small ammo capacity, if you have 8 bullets and you need to lead your target because the bullets are slow AND your target can change direction in an instant then the game suddenly makes any aiming skill you have useless. On top of that due to the fact that lag exists, people at a higher pings(obviously not talking about 100+, rather just higher than average...60-80) get hit hard with this due to the position correction, those changes in direction become twice as fast due to the game having to get the character model back to it's actual position so they sort of warp back so quick even the walking animation can't keep up. At least with a momentum system the movement still looks natural and the correction speed up balances out with momentum slow down.

    It's not about not using movement correctly or not being able to aim, there is a fundamental flaw in the logic of that game design.
    Or maybe you shouldn't balance a game around people with high ping and encourage people to queud in their region

    Only thing we need to get rid off is the speed upgrade when aiming down sight the rest is fine

    And yes I will say it get good, if the movement is your biggest issue in this game its a you problem not a game problem
    60-80 ping is in region

    under 100 ping is fine for a game and you'd have to be a moron to design a multiplayer game for under 60, you'd rule out so many people that it loses the one the thing game had going for it(lots of players).
    Movement is not my biggest issue, and the only reason it's an issue at all is because it looks glitchy and forces me to twitch the game like crazy, i don't like playing on edge like that 100% of the time, at NO point did i say it was hard or it was getting the better of me, i still win fights it's just not fun.
  • InS_Hypno
    103 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 29
    InS_Hypno said:
    InS_Hypno said:
    people who hate the movement in this game are people who can't use it
    *sigh*...can use it just fine, how do you not use movement?

    I feel the people who are against it don't know enough about games to realise there is an issue with the change in direction.
    The game has slow bullets with a lot of low rate of fire/semi auto weapons with small ammo capacity, if you have 8 bullets and you need to lead your target because the bullets are slow AND your target can change direction in an instant then the game suddenly makes any aiming skill you have useless. On top of that due to the fact that lag exists, people at a higher pings(obviously not talking about 100+, rather just higher than average...60-80) get hit hard with this due to the position correction, those changes in direction become twice as fast due to the game having to get the character model back to it's actual position so they sort of warp back so quick even the walking animation can't keep up. At least with a momentum system the movement still looks natural and the correction speed up balances out with momentum slow down.

    It's not about not using movement correctly or not being able to aim, there is a fundamental flaw in the logic of that game design.
    Or maybe you shouldn't balance a game around people with high ping and encourage people to queud in their region

    Only thing we need to get rid off is the speed upgrade when aiming down sight the rest is fine

    And yes I will say it get good, if the movement is your biggest issue in this game its a you problem not a game problem
    60-80 ping is in region

    under 100 ping is fine for a game and you'd have to be a moron to design a multiplayer game for under 60, you'd rule out so many people that it loses the one the thing game had going for it(lots of players).
    Movement is not my biggest issue, and the only reason it's an issue at all is because it looks glitchy and forces me to twitch the game like crazy, i don't like playing on edge like that 100% of the time, at NO point did i say it was hard or it was getting the better of me, i still win fights it's just not fun.
    80 ping is not

    Beside 60 ping is fine to play and play against, the only time netcode seems to take a dump is when people with a 100+ ping are around somewhere
  • Matty101yttam
    1141 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    InS_Hypno said:
    InS_Hypno said:
    InS_Hypno said:
    people who hate the movement in this game are people who can't use it
    *sigh*...can use it just fine, how do you not use movement?

    I feel the people who are against it don't know enough about games to realise there is an issue with the change in direction.
    The game has slow bullets with a lot of low rate of fire/semi auto weapons with small ammo capacity, if you have 8 bullets and you need to lead your target because the bullets are slow AND your target can change direction in an instant then the game suddenly makes any aiming skill you have useless. On top of that due to the fact that lag exists, people at a higher pings(obviously not talking about 100+, rather just higher than average...60-80) get hit hard with this due to the position correction, those changes in direction become twice as fast due to the game having to get the character model back to it's actual position so they sort of warp back so quick even the walking animation can't keep up. At least with a momentum system the movement still looks natural and the correction speed up balances out with momentum slow down.

    It's not about not using movement correctly or not being able to aim, there is a fundamental flaw in the logic of that game design.
    Or maybe you shouldn't balance a game around people with high ping and encourage people to queud in their region

    Only thing we need to get rid off is the speed upgrade when aiming down sight the rest is fine

    And yes I will say it get good, if the movement is your biggest issue in this game its a you problem not a game problem
    60-80 ping is in region

    under 100 ping is fine for a game and you'd have to be a moron to design a multiplayer game for under 60, you'd rule out so many people that it loses the one the thing game had going for it(lots of players).
    Movement is not my biggest issue, and the only reason it's an issue at all is because it looks glitchy and forces me to twitch the game like crazy, i don't like playing on edge like that 100% of the time, at NO point did i say it was hard or it was getting the better of me, i still win fights it's just not fun.
    80 ping is not

    Beside 60 ping is fine to play and play against, the only time netcode seems to take a dump is when people with a 100+ ping are around somewhere
    lol...yes it is

    I'm in australia...the server is in australia...the servers are in my country that is a "region"
    The game is designed for 100ms...the icons show at 100ms, the slow bullet speed is to accommodate 100ms
    The one thing that's not matching here is bullet speed vs movement speed, if the game was designed at 0 (accommodating no players) but allowing bullets the fastest speed possible, then whatever you aim at you can kill, not a problem. However that is not the case, these elements of the game don't match up.
  • InS_Hypno
    103 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    InS_Hypno said:
    InS_Hypno said:
    InS_Hypno said:
    people who hate the movement in this game are people who can't use it
    *sigh*...can use it just fine, how do you not use movement?

    I feel the people who are against it don't know enough about games to realise there is an issue with the change in direction.
    The game has slow bullets with a lot of low rate of fire/semi auto weapons with small ammo capacity, if you have 8 bullets and you need to lead your target because the bullets are slow AND your target can change direction in an instant then the game suddenly makes any aiming skill you have useless. On top of that due to the fact that lag exists, people at a higher pings(obviously not talking about 100+, rather just higher than average...60-80) get hit hard with this due to the position correction, those changes in direction become twice as fast due to the game having to get the character model back to it's actual position so they sort of warp back so quick even the walking animation can't keep up. At least with a momentum system the movement still looks natural and the correction speed up balances out with momentum slow down.

    It's not about not using movement correctly or not being able to aim, there is a fundamental flaw in the logic of that game design.
    Or maybe you shouldn't balance a game around people with high ping and encourage people to queud in their region

    Only thing we need to get rid off is the speed upgrade when aiming down sight the rest is fine

    And yes I will say it get good, if the movement is your biggest issue in this game its a you problem not a game problem
    60-80 ping is in region

    under 100 ping is fine for a game and you'd have to be a moron to design a multiplayer game for under 60, you'd rule out so many people that it loses the one the thing game had going for it(lots of players).
    Movement is not my biggest issue, and the only reason it's an issue at all is because it looks glitchy and forces me to twitch the game like crazy, i don't like playing on edge like that 100% of the time, at NO point did i say it was hard or it was getting the better of me, i still win fights it's just not fun.
    80 ping is not

    Beside 60 ping is fine to play and play against, the only time netcode seems to take a dump is when people with a 100+ ping are around somewhere
    lol...yes it is

    I'm in australia...the server is in australia...the servers are in my country that is a "region"
    The game is designed for 100ms...the icons show at 100ms, the slow bullet speed is to accommodate 100ms
    The one thing that's not matching here is bullet speed vs movement speed, if the game was designed at 0 (accommodating no players) but allowing bullets the fastest speed possible, then whatever you aim at you can kill, not a problem. However that is not the case, these elements of the game don't match up.
    Welp sucks to be you

    Games should be made to accommodate most of the people

    Edge cases like Australia are unfortunate but a reality, a game shouldn't be made specifically with those edge cases in mind because no matter how you tweak things some people are gonna be on the losing end of it. I rather have a game where the majority of people have a decent experience and a few claim to have problems ( which in 99% of those cases are the people themselves ) than a game that is made with those edge cases in mind that limit the gameplay
  • DasScharminkel
    78 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    and here i am threatening my isp provider going liam neson on his sorry butt if my latency would increase from 12 upwards after a general reconfiguration at the area i live at. one of the  main reasons i bought the house was a solid connection. anything about 20 would be totally unacceptable for i've gotten soft enjoying low latency gaming for such a long time
  • DasScharminkel
    78 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    InS_Hypno said:
    Kunstula said:
    InS_Hypno said:


    And yes I will say it get good, if the movement is your biggest issue in this game its a you problem not a game problem
    And yet this very same issue was tackled in BF1, so you're dead wrong. It's a game problem.
    I love going on bf stats and confirming most of the time that people that holds those opinions are bots at said game
    sadly i have to agree. most underperformers rather complain instead of growing a pair and improve their skills.
    back in the day we got shafted for months until even considered worthy participating in a team deathmatch against the "good guys" no trophy for participating and you had to earn your place the hard way. no one is entitled to good stats without earning them with dedication and effort.
    though i must admit having a transparent butthole all the time in form of tracking sites 24/7 breathes down your neck heavily. was alot less stressful back in my day when you had a fixed reputation for just being part of a good clan. nowadays everyone can track your bad hair day back for months.
    as for "who cares about your stats" well i guess everyone who wants to determine if you are worth something or if your opinion on the topic holds any value.and last but not least my own ego demans continuous increase in performance.
  • IDazzlerazzle
    469 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Kunstula said:
    InS_Hypno said:


    And yes I will say it get good, if the movement is your biggest issue in this game its a you problem not a game problem
    And yet this very same issue was tackled in BF1, so you're dead wrong. It's a game problem.
    True, I remember they sorted out adad spam and general android player movement where you can sprint in full and then walk backwards or sideways at abnormal speeds instantly quite fast

    Currently you can ADAD spam even on consoles and with that 60% extra movement it's pretty much dance 
  • Matty101yttam
    1141 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    InS_Hypno said:
    Kunstula said:
    InS_Hypno said:


    And yes I will say it get good, if the movement is your biggest issue in this game its a you problem not a game problem
    And yet this very same issue was tackled in BF1, so you're dead wrong. It's a game problem.
    I love going on bf stats and confirming most of the time that people that holds those opinions are bots at said game
    sadly i have to agree. most underperformers rather complain instead of growing a pair and improve their skills.
    back in the day we got shafted for months until even considered worthy participating in a team deathmatch against the "good guys" no trophy for participating and you had to earn your place the hard way. no one is entitled to good stats without earning them with dedication and effort.
    though i must admit having a transparent butthole all the time in form of tracking sites 24/7 breathes down your neck heavily. was alot less stressful back in my day when you had a fixed reputation for just being part of a good clan. nowadays everyone can track your bad hair day back for months.
    as for "who cares about your stats" well i guess everyone who wants to determine if you are worth something or if your opinion on the topic holds any value.and last but not least my own ego demans continuous increase in performance.
    Stats are worthless, they really don't prove anything that's why no one cares about them.
    There's so much that doesn't come into consideration when looking at stats, like suppressing fire messing with accuracy stats, the people the players may play with, how much a player experiments and has fun. Battlefield is so varied in what goes on during gameplay that player quality really can't be quantified like that.
  • dcs500
    1454 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    True, I remember they sorted out adad spam and general android player movement where you can sprint in full and then walk backwards or sideways at abnormal speeds instantly quite fast

    They did? Because you've just described every game of BFV Ive ever played. I have a consistent 19 ping, usually one of the lowest on the scoreboard.
  • DasScharminkel
    78 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member

    Stats are worthless, they really don't prove anything that's why no one cares about them.
    There's so much that doesn't come into consideration when looking at stats, like suppressing fire messing with accuracy stats, the people the players may play with, how much a player experiments and has fun. Battlefield is so varied in what goes on during gameplay that player quality really can't be quantified like that.
    yes and no. if you can get out of the hamsterwheel and still find gratification in what you´re doing, good for you, honest. personally i never start a match fooling around, going for silly stuff or playing for "fun". every match i do my best to perform and win the round and most of the situations where i took the short end of the stick i know by heart, even remember some bf 1 situations where i died unnecessarely, thus trying to improve.
    while i try to revive as crazy i mind my kd meaning the longer i´m alive the more damage i can do to the enemy team plus it feels good to be honest.

    back in my days stats weren´t  a thing, you wore a clan tag and that was that. nowadays i feel like the max performance from yesterday has to be my standard today for if the graph doesn´t go upwards you´re doing something wrong.

    personally i played bf1942 a lot more relaxed for you could fool around without getting tracked and had your own propaganda and narration. bad rounds never happened and the good ones got recorded and replayed ad nausea =)
  • NLBartmaN
    3667 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    60-80 ping is in region

    under 100 ping is fine for a game and you'd have to be a moron to design a multiplayer game for under 60, you'd rule out so many people that it loses the one the thing game had going for it(lots of players).
    Movement is not my biggest issue, and the only reason it's an issue at all is because it looks glitchy and forces me to twitch the game like crazy, i don't like playing on edge like that 100% of the time, at NO point did i say it was hard or it was getting the better of me, i still win fights it's just not fun.
    60-80 is in Region in Regions with trash internet and an insane amount of hubs, in EU you have very trash internet if your ping is above 35ms (in the Netherlands even above 15ms).

    Ping height is not the biggest problem (it is, but in those regions with trash internet there is no other option), ping differences (and packet loss/latency variation) is a huge problem, max difference between lowest and heighest can be only around 50ms and then the game gets pure trash.

    With a difference of 50ms (on 30Hz console servers) it is IMPOSSIBLE to hit an ADAD spammer with a non automatic weapon ... the location of that player will never be close to accurate enough.
  • Matty101yttam
    1141 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    NLBartmaN said:
    60-80 ping is in region

    under 100 ping is fine for a game and you'd have to be a moron to design a multiplayer game for under 60, you'd rule out so many people that it loses the one the thing game had going for it(lots of players).
    Movement is not my biggest issue, and the only reason it's an issue at all is because it looks glitchy and forces me to twitch the game like crazy, i don't like playing on edge like that 100% of the time, at NO point did i say it was hard or it was getting the better of me, i still win fights it's just not fun.
    60-80 is in Region in Regions with trash internet and an insane amount of hubs, in EU you have very trash internet if your ping is above 35ms (in the Netherlands even above 15ms).

    Ping height is not the biggest problem (it is, but in those regions with trash internet there is no other option), ping differences (and packet loss/latency variation) is a huge problem, max difference between lowest and heighest can be only around 50ms and then the game gets pure trash.

    With a difference of 50ms (on 30Hz console servers) it is IMPOSSIBLE to hit an ADAD spammer with a non automatic weapon ... the location of that player will never be close to accurate enough.
    The game is designed with 100ms in mind, 60-80 plays more than fine, it's just at the points of direction change that it's a problem, hence the suggestion for a momentum slowdown, it would even out with that lag correction
    Networks will always have some form of lag and at some point they have to draw the line, if you want close to perfect there is lan...but this is not that, online games are made to include those slightly higher pings because the stage isn't perfect anyhow so you may as well make it big enough to include the majority of people.
  • NLBartmaN
    3667 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    The game is designed with 100ms in mind, 60-80 plays more than fine, it's just at the points of direction change that it's a problem, hence the suggestion for a momentum slowdown, it would even out with that lag correction
    Networks will always have some form of lag and at some point they have to draw the line, if you want close to perfect there is lan...but this is not that, online games are made to include those slightly higher pings because the stage isn't perfect anyhow so you may as well make it big enough to include the majority of people.
    The game is not designed with any ping in mind, otherwise there would not be such an insane amount of compensation and there would be ping (packet loss/variation) limits.

    Dice/EA basically say: whatever trash connection you have, we don't care, you can play anywhere you want and kill the fun for others and you get compensated by doing it.

    60-80 are pings form the 90's (dial up modems) and seriously outdated, but it would cost insane amounts of money to fix that in countries with lots of distance and low population in lots of areas.
    In the EU internet is already close to LAN (I have 9ms ping in BF V to EU servers)

    With a difference of 60ms between 2 pings a player with high ping can move an insane amount of distance in one srv tick and make it impossible for low ping players to hit (and see/hear in time) the high ping players when they use the movement mechanics mentioned in the OP.

    Movement and TTK should be adapted to these differences by slowering everything down. (so nerf/remove the things mentioned in the OP)

    Or the (impact of the) differences should be taken away by Region based ping limits, removal of compensation in hit claim simulation, bad luck for players that have packet loss or too much latency variation (they die, the other player lives when information is missing).
  • InS_Hypno
    103 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member

    Stats are worthless, they really don't prove anything that's why no one cares about them.
    There's so much that doesn't come into consideration when looking at stats, like suppressing fire messing with accuracy stats, the people the players may play with, how much a player experiments and has fun. Battlefield is so varied in what goes on during gameplay that player quality really can't be quantified like that.
    They aren't worthless tho

    You can tell if someone is cheating by looking at stats, you can tell if a player is probably good or probably bad, you can tell if the player mostly play in a squad or not, you can kinda deduce playstyle when looking at multiple things

    The game is designed with 100ms in mind, 60-80 plays more than fine, it's just at the points of direction change that it's a problem, hence the suggestion for a momentum slowdown, it would even out with that lag correction
    Networks will always have some form of lag and at some point they have to draw the line, if you want close to perfect there is lan...but this is not that, online games are made to include those slightly higher pings because the stage isn't perfect anyhow so you may as well make it big enough to include the majority of people.

    No its not, you said it yourself the ping alert goes off when you are at 100+ ping, the game is literally warning you that you are gonna experience issues

  • SixTouge
    286 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    NLBartmaN wrote: »
    (Quote)


    60-80 are pings form the 90's (dial up modems) and seriously outdated, but it would cost insane amounts of money to fix that in countries with lots of distance and low population in lots of areas.
    In the EU internet is already close to LAN (I have 9ms ping in BF V to EU servers).

    Ugh, totally unrelated but reading this stings. Being in a major metropolis in the US and seeing 60-80 on the regular with something around 40 representing the absolute best, it's more than a little frustrating.

    80 may be "fine" for the game, in that it's playable still, but I can 100% feel the difference between 40 and 80. Over 100 it becomes very difficult to have a decent experience.
  • Matty101yttam
    1141 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    InS_Hypno said:

    Stats are worthless, they really don't prove anything that's why no one cares about them.
    There's so much that doesn't come into consideration when looking at stats, like suppressing fire messing with accuracy stats, the people the players may play with, how much a player experiments and has fun. Battlefield is so varied in what goes on during gameplay that player quality really can't be quantified like that.
    They aren't worthless tho

    You can tell if someone is cheating by looking at stats, you can tell if a player is probably good or probably bad, you can tell if the player mostly play in a squad or not, you can kinda deduce playstyle when looking at multiple things

    The game is designed with 100ms in mind, 60-80 plays more than fine, it's just at the points of direction change that it's a problem, hence the suggestion for a momentum slowdown, it would even out with that lag correction
    Networks will always have some form of lag and at some point they have to draw the line, if you want close to perfect there is lan...but this is not that, online games are made to include those slightly higher pings because the stage isn't perfect anyhow so you may as well make it big enough to include the majority of people.

    No its not, you said it yourself the ping alert goes off when you are at 100+ ping, the game is literally warning you that you are gonna experience issues

    Up to 100 is fine, if you even have 1 ping your going to experience something thats worse than 0 obviously, the game however is meant to be fully playable up to 100.
    Bullet travel time is actually designed around this, by giving bullets "fake" travel time they can be more lenient on client prediction because players will aim ahead ie...lag shoot...while feeling like they are just firing normally.
  • NLBartmaN
    3667 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Up to 100 is fine, if you even have 1 ping your going to experience something thats worse than 0 obviously, the game however is meant to be fully playable up to 100.
    Bullet travel time is actually designed around this, by giving bullets "fake" travel time they can be more lenient on client prediction because players will aim ahead ie...lag shoot...while feeling like they are just firing normally.
    Up to 100 is fine to play WITH, you get compensated in every way possible and are a bullet sponge.

    Is it terrible to play AGAINST when you have a fast and stable connection and liked I said: on EU servers there is NO reason you should have a ping above 35ms, even if you live on top of a mountain ...

    In the US and other countries 60-80 and even 100 might be "normal", but EU servers should have a ping limit of max 50ms and kick/not compensate anyone with a ping above that or too much latency variation/packet loss.

    OT: add ping limits/remove compensation (in hit claim simulation) or nerf the crap out of the movement and TTK.
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