Bad map design along with planes spawn killing and tanks being irrelevant.

«1
TendedEmperor
postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
I hate how easy it is to spawn camp in this game, most of the maps are one-sided and when there are players who mostly use planes they can easily spawn camp you and your teams vehicles. Tanks are basically useless unless you play them like the recon class and sit back to snipe with them. You effectively need a whole other squad with you in order to keep yourself safe from infantry that will essentially swarm you if they spot you. You can not be a "tank" in this, you are actually a paper thin sniper rifle with extra seats in this game. From what I have seen at least three of the classes have equipment to kill tanks. Why? Why can this role not be solely designated to a specific class instead it is most of them. With a large population of the players picking assault and the support classes you basically have no chances of surviving on the battlefield, unless you are sitting way in the back sniping kills.

Comments

  • DingoKillr
    3741 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Since BF2 there has been at least 3 class that can damage vehicles. The more vehicles means more options needed to counter otherwise we end up with players only using 1 class and it would be worse then now.
  • tempo_rarity
    1110 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    It's a Paper Tank if it's just you in it ; but it's Titanium if you got Mates helping you out .

    So far , only twice in BFV have I seen this 'Unapproachable Tank' - that's a Tank being teamwork-played in the manner Loqtrall defines .
    Now that the Fliegerfaust air defense is available , I think such a Tank could theoretically last the whole round if everyone's doing their job .
  • MBT_Layzan
    1809 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Yea, team work, but most tanks will just: 

    TendedEmperor said:
    play them like the recon class and sit back to snipe with them.
    And that is BFV in a nutshell for tanks. Can't blame them, dice made it this way. 
  • ProAssassin2003
    3549 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    You effectively need a whole other squad with you in order to keep yourself safe from infantry that will essentially swarm you if they spot you.

    Which is exactly how it should be.

    The tank is a force multiplier for the team. It's not supposed to be a one-man killing machine, and after the ridiculous tanks we had in BF4, I'm honestly glad DICE went in the direction of requiring tanks to use more teamwork to reach peak effectiveness.

    Do you know why one guy in a tank is most effective sitting on a hill far away and barely helping?

    That's exactly why - because he's one measly player.

    The tank isn't and shouldn't be a tool where one person can hop in it and completely change the tide of battle and put the game in their team's favor.

    It's inherently a teamwork tool meant to be supported by a squad. An entire squad running a tank efficiently can be absolutely terrifying for the opposite team, and they have the potential of staying up and wreaking devastation throughout an entire match if the squad is worth their muster.

    Bad tankers pushing in solo and headstrong are the tankers that get swarmed and killed. And that's how it should be.

    Because you shouldn't be rewarded with a one-man killing machine merely for pressing a button and spawning in a tank.

    BF is no a solo-centric game despite people treating it as such.


    Sorry but this post is so Bias it blows my mind. Let's address the elephant in the room. Lack of Team work. Most people don't use any even Clans. I've been in Clans. Really good Clans. Guess what barely any Teamwork. Players just running around trying to get as much kills as possible usually running a medic class so they can be revived to keep the KDR farm going.

    Not one time in a Clan I was in use Team Work in Tanks. What Team Work is there in Tanks? You can't be a Gunner it's instant death. You can't repair because DICE Magically adds splash damage through Tanks that kill you behind a Tank not to mention the Repair rate is so slow repairing is useless as the damage negates any repair you receive. You can't be a Gunner inside a Tank because the visibility is so terrible everyone just jumps out. Tankers have no option but to be lone wolves and Camp.

    You hate on BF4 and the reason why is because Team Work was most definitely possible in that Battlefield. Repairing was fast. You jumped out instantly. Tanks had proper mobility. And Gunner positions was very useful.

    This fantasy world you are painting doesn't exist in Battlefield 5 for Tanks. Not in my 600 Hours playing the game have I seen any Team Work in Tanks either on my Team or the opposing Team. People camp and Farm Infantry in Tanks in BFV because DICE made them almost completely worthless. I really don't understand why this debate keeps being brought up.
  • mf_shro0m
    1869 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited December 1
    Tbh some of you guys talk about having a whole squad of mates who’re willing to spend the whole round manning a stationary point that’s not very good and won’t see much action as if it was commonplace. As far as I know none of my friends irl play BFV because gaming a not our thing and I don’t fancy my odds if I were to go around asking randoms if they want to be tank friends and to spend blocks of 45 minutes with a trash gun and unable to move.
    Tbh given the proportion of solo tankers there are this is probably quite a common situation

    Just saying, the game shouldn’t be balanced around the assumption that most tanks will be manned by a whole squad when being a crew member sucks.

    I fully agree that tanks shouldn’t be one man armies but right now tanks are too vulnerable to assaults at close range. Frag grenades have more splash than bloody tank shells and the tank MGs are crap compared to the infantry versions of themselves.
    Tanks shouldn’t be one man armies but nor should assaults. Taking out a bloody tank shouldn’t be something a single soldier can do easily and should require teamwork. This is all the more farcical when you consider the fact that assaults are all carrying about 20kg of fausts, a 5-10kg gun, like a dozen kg of dynamite, ammo and grenades. Damn I’d be surprised if more than 10 people on this forum could jog with that much on their back let alone glide about like a ghost
  • ProAssassin2003
    3549 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited December 1
    Tbh some of you guys talk about having a whole squad of mates who’re willing to spend the whole round manning a stationary point that’s not very good and won’t see much action as if it was commonplace. As far as I know none of my friends irl play BFV because gaming a not our thing and I don’t fancy my odds if I were to go around asking randoms if they want to be tank friends and to spend blocks of 45 minutes with a trash gun and unable to move.
    Tbh given the proportion of solo tankers there are this is probably quite a common situation

    Just saying, the game shouldn’t be balanced around the assumption that most tanks will be manned by a whole squad when being a crew member sucks.

    I fully agree that tanks shouldn’t be one man armies but right now tanks are too vulnerable to assaults at close range. Frag grenades have more splash than bloody tank shells and the tank MGs are crap compared to the infantry versions of themselves.
    Tanks shouldn’t be one man armies but nor should assaults. Taking out a bloody tank shouldn’t be something a single soldier can do easily and should require teamwork. This is all the more farcical when you consider the fact that assaults are all carrying about 20kg of fausts, a 5-10kg gun, like a dozen kg of dynamite, ammo and grenades. Damn I’d be surprised if more than 10 people on this forum could jog with that much on their back let alone glide about like a ghost


    Spot on. I have a similar comment but it's being approved because I edited it. Lol. I agree. They are painting a picture of Tanking that doesn't exist in Battlefield 5. Not in my 600 Hours have I seen a Tank Team on my side or the enemies. These dudes are in Fantasy Land. Lol

    I've been in Clans some really well known clans and there was zero Tanking Teamwork lol. Everyone is worried about KDR.
  • Loqtrall
    12091 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited December 1
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    You effectively need a whole other squad with you in order to keep yourself safe from infantry that will essentially swarm you if they spot you.

    Which is exactly how it should be.

    The tank is a force multiplier for the team. It's not supposed to be a one-man killing machine, and after the ridiculous tanks we had in BF4, I'm honestly glad DICE went in the direction of requiring tanks to use more teamwork to reach peak effectiveness.

    Do you know why one guy in a tank is most effective sitting on a hill far away and barely helping?

    That's exactly why - because he's one measly player.

    The tank isn't and shouldn't be a tool where one person can hop in it and completely change the tide of battle and put the game in their team's favor.

    It's inherently a teamwork tool meant to be supported by a squad. An entire squad running a tank efficiently can be absolutely terrifying for the opposite team, and they have the potential of staying up and wreaking devastation throughout an entire match if the squad is worth their muster.

    Bad tankers pushing in solo and headstrong are the tankers that get swarmed and killed. And that's how it should be.

    Because you shouldn't be rewarded with a one-man killing machine merely for pressing a button and spawning in a tank.

    BF is no a solo-centric game despite people treating it as such.


    Sorry but this post is so Bias it blows my mind. Let's address the elephant in the room. Lack of Team work. Most people don't use any even Clans. I've been in Clans. Really good Clans. Guess what barely any Teamwork. Players just running around trying to get as much kills as possible usually running a medic class so they can be revived to keep the KDR farm going.

    Not one time in a Clan I was in use Team Work in Tanks. What Team Work is there in Tanks? You can't be a Gunner it's instant death. You can't repair because DICE Magically adds splash damage through Tanks that kill you behind a Tank not to mention the Repair rate is so slow repairing is useless as the damage negates any repair you receive. You can't be a Gunner inside a Tank because the visibility is so terrible everyone just jumps out. Tankers have no option but to be lone wolves and Camp.

    You hate on BF4 and the reason why is because Team Work was most definitely possible in that Battlefield. Repairing was fast. You jumped out instantly. Tanks had proper mobility. And Gunner positions was very useful.

    This fantasy world you are painting doesn't exist in Battlefield 5 for Tanks. Not in my 600 Hours playing the game have I seen any Team Work in Tanks either on my Team or the opposing Team. People camp and Farm Infantry in Tanks in BFV because DICE made them almost completely worthless. I really don't understand why this debate keeps being brought up.

    For one, I don't see how what I said is based on bias. I don't play in a clan nor do I actively play with an entire squad of people - nor do I main vehicles.

    Sorry, but random people not using teamwork is no reason for tanks to be designed around being used by one person. We already experienced that in BF4 and tanks we by far one of the easiest to use things in that game, and in the right hands could be used as a quasi-one-man-army type of tool.

    That shouldn't be the case unless I, an infantryman that just spawned in, can blow any and every tank up from 100 health with the Assault arsenal I spawn in with. That isn't the case either.

    It shouldn't require teamwork to take down a good tanker when that tanker is dominating by himself because the tanks in question are easy as hell to utilize solo.

    Secondly, teamwork in tanks absolutely DOES work in this game and I have a first-hand testimony to it working even if it's completely random people playing.

    So I'm playing a match of Twisted Steel, by myself, in a random squad. One of my random squad mates has been talking this entire time, intermittently making callouts, and pretty much all of us stayed pretty near each other.

    All of a sudden our squad leaders mic cuts on and he says "I'm spawning a Tiger, you guys wanna help?". The other guy whose talking says yeah, spawns in as support. I die, spawn in as support - the fourth guy was assault. We all turn our mics on, we pile in and around this Tiger tank, I spend the rest of the match repairing it and picking off flanking infantry, the assault guy helps the tank with other tanks and vehicles - and we absolutely destroyed the enemy team and our tank lasted the entire match.

    I starkly remember it because it was THE most fun I had in a random squad, ever.

    It isn't a fantasy world I'm painting. It's a fact. Entire squads running tanks in this game can be atrocious, just absolutely diabolical toward the enemy team.

    You run solo, you get your butt kicked. Is your entire squad full of scrubs that can't kill anything or support jack? You get your butt kicked.

    Lmao, and teamwork in BF4? You realize we're talking about essentially the same fanbase, right?

    That isn't teamwork you spouted off about in BF4, that is EVEN MORE evidence of how crazy powerful tanks were in BF4. You even mentioned the gunner seat that didn't expose the gunner, could be switched to instantly, had infinite ammo, and had THERMAL OPTICS.

    Sorry but if you can't realize how immensely easy tanks were to use in that game in comparison to all other BF titles, that's on you.

    Tanks should not be one man killing machines that are easily uncontested by everything else but tanks. You should not be able to roll around with that sort of power merely because you went to the deploy screen and pressed a button.

    If it requires teamwork to take you down, it should require teamwork for you to use the vehicle that requires teamwork to take down. If the method of killing a tank takes actual effort, it should not be effortless to use a tank.

    Sorry, but your personal experience means squat. This game is built around teamwork and teamwork does happen despite what you claim. I see it all the time and experience it all the time. It may not apply to most of the scrubs out there but that's because they're scrubs. That's aside the fact that your profile doesn't communicate 600 hours of experience, more like half that. (unless you're using a different profile now but still played on this profile 2 days ago)

    If you're having trouble finding teamwork you may actually want to seek out other players who want teamwork as well. Ffs, I've found 2 other people on these forums alone that are fantastic team players and that I still play with to this day, and I've had two different fantastic players add me through Xbox live just because we ran a random squad together.

    Insisting teamwork flat out doesn't exist in this game is just as logical as insisting it never happened in any other game in existence. It sounds to me like you're primarily a solo player that doesn't seek out good squad mates at all.

    Lmao your "i haven't seen it, therefore it's never happened" stance is pretty bogus.
  • VincentNZ
    3499 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Yea, team work, but most tanks will just: 

    TendedEmperor said:
    play them like the recon class and sit back to snipe with them.
    And that is BFV in a nutshell for tanks. Can't blame them, dice made it this way. 
    That is not going to change with 5.2. Sure they made it easier for tanks to survive against two Assaults, but on objectives, they can still get swarmed. Tankers are not killed by Assaults, they kill themselves, right now.
    With 5.2 they can roam free between the objectives and sniping from the back is just as profitable as before. You can even be closer, as no Assault can inflict enough damage at medium range to even to make you sweat.
  • ProAssassin2003
    3549 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    You effectively need a whole other squad with you in order to keep yourself safe from infantry that will essentially swarm you if they spot you.

    Which is exactly how it should be.

    The tank is a force multiplier for the team. It's not supposed to be a one-man killing machine, and after the ridiculous tanks we had in BF4, I'm honestly glad DICE went in the direction of requiring tanks to use more teamwork to reach peak effectiveness.

    Do you know why one guy in a tank is most effective sitting on a hill far away and barely helping?

    That's exactly why - because he's one measly player.

    The tank isn't and shouldn't be a tool where one person can hop in it and completely change the tide of battle and put the game in their team's favor.

    It's inherently a teamwork tool meant to be supported by a squad. An entire squad running a tank efficiently can be absolutely terrifying for the opposite team, and they have the potential of staying up and wreaking devastation throughout an entire match if the squad is worth their muster.

    Bad tankers pushing in solo and headstrong are the tankers that get swarmed and killed. And that's how it should be.

    Because you shouldn't be rewarded with a one-man killing machine merely for pressing a button and spawning in a tank.

    BF is no a solo-centric game despite people treating it as such.


    Sorry but this post is so Bias it blows my mind. Let's address the elephant in the room. Lack of Team work. Most people don't use any even Clans. I've been in Clans. Really good Clans. Guess what barely any Teamwork. Players just running around trying to get as much kills as possible usually running a medic class so they can be revived to keep the KDR farm going.

    Not one time in a Clan I was in use Team Work in Tanks. What Team Work is there in Tanks? You can't be a Gunner it's instant death. You can't repair because DICE Magically adds splash damage through Tanks that kill you behind a Tank not to mention the Repair rate is so slow repairing is useless as the damage negates any repair you receive. You can't be a Gunner inside a Tank because the visibility is so terrible everyone just jumps out. Tankers have no option but to be lone wolves and Camp.

    You hate on BF4 and the reason why is because Team Work was most definitely possible in that Battlefield. Repairing was fast. You jumped out instantly. Tanks had proper mobility. And Gunner positions was very useful.

    This fantasy world you are painting doesn't exist in Battlefield 5 for Tanks. Not in my 600 Hours playing the game have I seen any Team Work in Tanks either on my Team or the opposing Team. People camp and Farm Infantry in Tanks in BFV because DICE made them almost completely worthless. I really don't understand why this debate keeps being brought up.

    For one, I don't see how what I said is based on bias. I don't play in a clan nor do I actively play with an entire squad of people - nor do I main vehicles.

    Sorry, but random people not using teamwork is no reason for tanks to be designed around being used by one person. We already experienced that in BF4 and tanks we by far one of the easiest to use things in that game, and in the right hands could be used as a quasi-one-man-army type of tool.

    That shouldn't be the case unless I, an infantryman that just spawned in, can blow any and every tank up from 100 health with the Assault arsenal I spawn in with. That isn't the case either.

    It shouldn't require teamwork to take down a good tanker when that tanker is dominating by himself because the tanks in question are easy as hell to utilize solo.

    Secondly, teamwork in tanks absolutely DOES work in this game and I have a first-hand testimony to it working even if it's completely random people playing.

    So I'm playing a match of Twisted Steel, by myself, in a random squad. One of my random squad mates has been talking this entire time, intermittently making callouts, and pretty much all of us stayed pretty near each other.

    All of a sudden our squad leaders mic cuts on and he says "I'm spawning a Tiger, you guys wanna help?". The other guy whose talking says yeah, spawns in as support. I die, spawn in as support - the fourth guy was assault. We all turn our mics on, we pile in and around this Tiger tank, I spend the rest of the match repairing it and picking off flanking infantry, the assault guy helps the tank with other tanks and vehicles - and we absolutely destroyed the enemy team and our tank lasted the entire match.

    I starkly remember it because it was THE most fun I had in a random squad, ever.

    It isn't a fantasy world I'm painting. It's a fact. Entire squads running tanks in this game can be atrocious, just absolutely diabolical toward the enemy team.

    You run solo, you get your butt kicked. Is your entire squad full of scrubs that can't kill anything or support jack? You get your butt kicked.

    Lmao, and teamwork in BF4? You realize we're talking about essentially the same fanbase, right?

    That isn't teamwork you spouted off about in BF4, that is EVEN MORE evidence of how crazy powerful tanks were in BF4. You even mentioned the gunner seat that didn't expose the gunner, could be switched to instantly, had infinite ammo, and had THERMAL OPTICS.

    Sorry but if you can't realize how immensely easy tanks were to use in that game in comparison to all other BF titles, that's on you.

    Tanks should not be one man killing machines that are easily uncontested by everything else but tanks. You should not be able to roll around with that sort of power merely because you went to the deploy screen and pressed a button.

    If it requires teamwork to take you down, it should require teamwork for you to use the vehicle that requires teamwork to take down. If the method of killing a tank takes actual effort, it should not be effortless to use a tank.

    Sorry, but your personal experience means squat. This game is built around teamwork and teamwork does happen despite what you claim. I see it all the time and experience it all the time. It may not apply to most of the scrubs out there but that's because they're scrubs. That's aside the fact that your profile doesn't communicate 600 hours of experience, more like half that. (unless you're using a different profile now but still played on this profile 2 days ago)

    If you're having trouble finding teamwork you may actually want to seek out other players who want teamwork as well. Ffs, I've found 2 other people on these forums alone that are fantastic team players and that I still play with to this day, and I've had two different fantastic players add me through Xbox live just because we ran a random squad together.

    Insisting teamwork flat out doesn't exist in this game is just as logical as insisting it never happened in any other game in existence. It sounds to me like you're primarily a solo player that doesn't seek out good squad mates at all.

    Lmao your "i haven't seen it, therefore it's never happened" stance is pretty bogus.


    And you having one round of Team Work against Bots doesn't make it exist in BFV. I would say my Corrected 360 Hours of experience playing with many different players with zero Team Work in Tanks is a clearer indicater on how bad Tanks are and the Team Work surrounding them.

    Funny how when DICE have a Repair Friendly Vehicle TOW everyone magically starts using Team Work. People don't use Team Work in Tanks because there is none. Gunner positions suck, repairing sucks. Your option running around a friendly Tank was the only option. You basically proved my point. Why wasn't you inside the Tank? The only option for Team Work in Tanks in BFV is your option or Zerging with Infantry and Tanks.

    BF4 everything for a Tank was useful even for Randoms that wanted to help and I always had a Gunner or a Repair guy. Tanks in BF4 actually would be useful for a Team and Capture Objectives with way more counters against them.

    BF4 was more modern so that helped but there is many things DICE could do to improve Tanks in BFV to make them push and not camp and farm. 5.2 won't help it's going to make Tanks even more of an issue.

    Tanks should be feared in Battlefield and that's not the case in Battlefield 5. People see a Tank it's basically free points to destroy it it's so easy. In BF4 you see a Tank you run or used Team Work to take one out.
  • ChickenTheTank
    518 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    You effectively need a whole other squad with you in order to keep yourself safe from infantry that will essentially swarm you if they spot you.

    Which is exactly how it should be.

    The tank is a force multiplier for the team. It's not supposed to be a one-man killing machine, and after the ridiculous tanks we had in BF4, I'm honestly glad DICE went in the direction of requiring tanks to use more teamwork to reach peak effectiveness.

    Do you know why one guy in a tank is most effective sitting on a hill far away and barely helping?

    That's exactly why - because he's one measly player.

    The tank isn't and shouldn't be a tool where one person can hop in it and completely change the tide of battle and put the game in their team's favor.

    It's inherently a teamwork tool meant to be supported by a squad. An entire squad running a tank efficiently can be absolutely terrifying for the opposite team, and they have the potential of staying up and wreaking devastation throughout an entire match if the squad is worth their muster.

    Bad tankers pushing in solo and headstrong are the tankers that get swarmed and killed. And that's how it should be.

    Because you shouldn't be rewarded with a one-man killing machine merely for pressing a button and spawning in a tank.

    BF is no a solo-centric game despite people treating it as such.


    Sorry but this post is so Bias it blows my mind. Let's address the elephant in the room. Lack of Team work. Most people don't use any even Clans. I've been in Clans. Really good Clans. Guess what barely any Teamwork. Players just running around trying to get as much kills as possible usually running a medic class so they can be revived to keep the KDR farm going.

    Not one time in a Clan I was in use Team Work in Tanks. What Team Work is there in Tanks? You can't be a Gunner it's instant death. You can't repair because DICE Magically adds splash damage through Tanks that kill you behind a Tank not to mention the Repair rate is so slow repairing is useless as the damage negates any repair you receive. You can't be a Gunner inside a Tank because the visibility is so terrible everyone just jumps out. Tankers have no option but to be lone wolves and Camp.

    You hate on BF4 and the reason why is because Team Work was most definitely possible in that Battlefield. Repairing was fast. You jumped out instantly. Tanks had proper mobility. And Gunner positions was very useful.

    This fantasy world you are painting doesn't exist in Battlefield 5 for Tanks. Not in my 600 Hours playing the game have I seen any Team Work in Tanks either on my Team or the opposing Team. People camp and Farm Infantry in Tanks in BFV because DICE made them almost completely worthless. I really don't understand why this debate keeps being brought up.

    Have you ever witnessed two tanks moving towards the same objective? Have you ever seen a team mate using the repair torch on a tank? Have you ever seen infantry firing at enemies a friendly tank is also firing at?

    Great, you've witnessed team work in a tank. Now stop exaggerating. There are plenty of tankers who use team work misch more effectively than the half way examples I just gave.
  • CSO7777
    1374 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    If tanks get much stronger than now, we get the same problems as in BF1 and BF4, where tanks totally dominated some maps. Tankers were often going 100-2 on the scoreboard.

    Why should tankers easily get a 25:1 K/D and infantry get 5:1 (if they are really really good), that is not balanced gameplay in any way.

    Ideally, players of equal skill should get the same K/D (more or less), no matter what weapon/vehicle they are skilled at using (a good tanker gets the same K/D as a good Assault). Any deviation from that and we have unbalanced gameplay (and people whining about overpowered this and that). Not that it will ever happen, but still, this gives the best experience for all players in the game.
  • Austacker
    444 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    If I'm on a side that's getting smashed by aircraft I'll jump on the AA to try and stem the flow a bit, but I find the AA tends to be a little vulnerable to direct attack from Air.

    There's a reason why good pilots won't deviate from AA positions and directly attack them, they know they can take it out in a single strafe run without too much issue.

    I have no problems with the AA range and the slowness / lead time on your shots.  Even the damage to planes is pretty fair too (you generally cannot take a plane out with 100% hits before your weapon goes into cooldown).

    But I think the damage from Plane to AA is a fair bit lop sided atm in favour of air.

    Only thing I think needs to be buffed is the health on the AA positions to address this particular one.  Probably a 20%-50% increase in health would do the trick.
  • Loqtrall
    12091 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    You effectively need a whole other squad with you in order to keep yourself safe from infantry that will essentially swarm you if they spot you.

    Which is exactly how it should be.

    The tank is a force multiplier for the team. It's not supposed to be a one-man killing machine, and after the ridiculous tanks we had in BF4, I'm honestly glad DICE went in the direction of requiring tanks to use more teamwork to reach peak effectiveness.

    Do you know why one guy in a tank is most effective sitting on a hill far away and barely helping?

    That's exactly why - because he's one measly player.

    The tank isn't and shouldn't be a tool where one person can hop in it and completely change the tide of battle and put the game in their team's favor.

    It's inherently a teamwork tool meant to be supported by a squad. An entire squad running a tank efficiently can be absolutely terrifying for the opposite team, and they have the potential of staying up and wreaking devastation throughout an entire match if the squad is worth their muster.

    Bad tankers pushing in solo and headstrong are the tankers that get swarmed and killed. And that's how it should be.

    Because you shouldn't be rewarded with a one-man killing machine merely for pressing a button and spawning in a tank.

    BF is no a solo-centric game despite people treating it as such.


    Sorry but this post is so Bias it blows my mind. Let's address the elephant in the room. Lack of Team work. Most people don't use any even Clans. I've been in Clans. Really good Clans. Guess what barely any Teamwork. Players just running around trying to get as much kills as possible usually running a medic class so they can be revived to keep the KDR farm going.

    Not one time in a Clan I was in use Team Work in Tanks. What Team Work is there in Tanks? You can't be a Gunner it's instant death. You can't repair because DICE Magically adds splash damage through Tanks that kill you behind a Tank not to mention the Repair rate is so slow repairing is useless as the damage negates any repair you receive. You can't be a Gunner inside a Tank because the visibility is so terrible everyone just jumps out. Tankers have no option but to be lone wolves and Camp.

    You hate on BF4 and the reason why is because Team Work was most definitely possible in that Battlefield. Repairing was fast. You jumped out instantly. Tanks had proper mobility. And Gunner positions was very useful.

    This fantasy world you are painting doesn't exist in Battlefield 5 for Tanks. Not in my 600 Hours playing the game have I seen any Team Work in Tanks either on my Team or the opposing Team. People camp and Farm Infantry in Tanks in BFV because DICE made them almost completely worthless. I really don't understand why this debate keeps being brought up.

    For one, I don't see how what I said is based on bias. I don't play in a clan nor do I actively play with an entire squad of people - nor do I main vehicles.

    Sorry, but random people not using teamwork is no reason for tanks to be designed around being used by one person. We already experienced that in BF4 and tanks we by far one of the easiest to use things in that game, and in the right hands could be used as a quasi-one-man-army type of tool.

    That shouldn't be the case unless I, an infantryman that just spawned in, can blow any and every tank up from 100 health with the Assault arsenal I spawn in with. That isn't the case either.

    It shouldn't require teamwork to take down a good tanker when that tanker is dominating by himself because the tanks in question are easy as hell to utilize solo.

    Secondly, teamwork in tanks absolutely DOES work in this game and I have a first-hand testimony to it working even if it's completely random people playing.

    So I'm playing a match of Twisted Steel, by myself, in a random squad. One of my random squad mates has been talking this entire time, intermittently making callouts, and pretty much all of us stayed pretty near each other.

    All of a sudden our squad leaders mic cuts on and he says "I'm spawning a Tiger, you guys wanna help?". The other guy whose talking says yeah, spawns in as support. I die, spawn in as support - the fourth guy was assault. We all turn our mics on, we pile in and around this Tiger tank, I spend the rest of the match repairing it and picking off flanking infantry, the assault guy helps the tank with other tanks and vehicles - and we absolutely destroyed the enemy team and our tank lasted the entire match.

    I starkly remember it because it was THE most fun I had in a random squad, ever.

    It isn't a fantasy world I'm painting. It's a fact. Entire squads running tanks in this game can be atrocious, just absolutely diabolical toward the enemy team.

    You run solo, you get your butt kicked. Is your entire squad full of scrubs that can't kill anything or support jack? You get your butt kicked.

    Lmao, and teamwork in BF4? You realize we're talking about essentially the same fanbase, right?

    That isn't teamwork you spouted off about in BF4, that is EVEN MORE evidence of how crazy powerful tanks were in BF4. You even mentioned the gunner seat that didn't expose the gunner, could be switched to instantly, had infinite ammo, and had THERMAL OPTICS.

    Sorry but if you can't realize how immensely easy tanks were to use in that game in comparison to all other BF titles, that's on you.

    Tanks should not be one man killing machines that are easily uncontested by everything else but tanks. You should not be able to roll around with that sort of power merely because you went to the deploy screen and pressed a button.

    If it requires teamwork to take you down, it should require teamwork for you to use the vehicle that requires teamwork to take down. If the method of killing a tank takes actual effort, it should not be effortless to use a tank.

    Sorry, but your personal experience means squat. This game is built around teamwork and teamwork does happen despite what you claim. I see it all the time and experience it all the time. It may not apply to most of the scrubs out there but that's because they're scrubs. That's aside the fact that your profile doesn't communicate 600 hours of experience, more like half that. (unless you're using a different profile now but still played on this profile 2 days ago)

    If you're having trouble finding teamwork you may actually want to seek out other players who want teamwork as well. Ffs, I've found 2 other people on these forums alone that are fantastic team players and that I still play with to this day, and I've had two different fantastic players add me through Xbox live just because we ran a random squad together.

    Insisting teamwork flat out doesn't exist in this game is just as logical as insisting it never happened in any other game in existence. It sounds to me like you're primarily a solo player that doesn't seek out good squad mates at all.

    Lmao your "i haven't seen it, therefore it's never happened" stance is pretty bogus.


    And you having one round of Team Work against Bots doesn't make it exist in BFV. I would say my Corrected 360 Hours of experience playing with many different players with zero Team Work in Tanks is a clearer indicater on how bad Tanks are and the Team Work surrounding them.

    Funny how when DICE have a Repair Friendly Vehicle TOW everyone magically starts using Team Work. People don't use Team Work in Tanks because there is none. Gunner positions suck, repairing sucks. Your option running around a friendly Tank was the only option. You basically proved my point. Why wasn't you inside the Tank? The only option for Team Work in Tanks in BFV is your option or Zerging with Infantry and Tanks.

    BF4 everything for a Tank was useful even for Randoms that wanted to help and I always had a Gunner or a Repair guy. Tanks in BF4 actually would be useful for a Team and Capture Objectives with way more counters against them.

    BF4 was more modern so that helped but there is many things DICE could do to improve Tanks in BFV to make them push and not camp and farm. 5.2 won't help it's going to make Tanks even more of an issue.

    Tanks should be feared in Battlefield and that's not the case in Battlefield 5. People see a Tank it's basically free points to destroy it it's so easy. In BF4 you see a Tank you run or used Team Work to take one out.

    Lmao, it isn't some one time thing. I literally just played with a squad and watched them run a tank as I sniped. Sorry, but you're either lying about never seeing tank teamwork happen or you're just willingly not looking at or seeing it. It happens all the time. I just had to revive one of my friends who got killed by a support who was repairing a tank and switched to their KE7.

    Secondly, how were you not under the impression that a squad using teamwork to run a tank would involve infantry directly supporting the tank?

    Newsflash, infantry repairing the tank is faster than self repair and cannot be interrupted by damage. You have 2 squad mates repairing you and you're essentially indestructible unless you get double-teamed by enemy armor or a tank + stationary. You have repairmen that can whip out and be efficient with LMGs in a hot second and you have high potential of wrecking the enemy team.

    People soloing in tanks and having first person tunnel vision are the ones getting rushed and wrecked by infantry. They put themselves in bad positions with no backup, what do you expect? To get out of an intentional and successfully pulled off sneak attack by assault players unscathed?

    Sorry, but one assault player cannot go head to head with a tank unless the tanker in question is absolutely worthless. Neither could they in BF4, even moreso actually. Both games require teamwork to destroy a tank in a head on confrontation. Both have extremely easy methods of killing tanks if you sneak up on them.

    I know that from experience, I have thousands of C4 kills in BF4 on the Recon class and every single one was an armored vehicle kill. Every tank I killed as Recon got destroyed because they sat in dumb spots on OBJs thinking they were invincible and not paying attention, and had no backup. Tanks with gunners absolutely destroyed me. As it should be, teamwork trumped a sneaky solo player.

    It's the same way in BF5. Two Assault players can't sneak up on your tank if your 3 squad mates are on your rear end helping you.

    Ypu're severely overexaggerating how many people just outright kill skilled tankers by themselves. Usually of a tank gets killed by one assault player they're either not paying attention or they're bad. Either way, it isn't a reason to buff tanks to BF4s ridiculously easy levels.
  • MBT_Layzan
    1809 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    CSO7777 said:
    If tanks get much stronger than now, we get the same problems as in BF1 and BF4, where tanks totally dominated some maps. Tankers were often going 100-2 on the scoreboard.

    Why should tankers easily get a 25:1 K/D and infantry get 5:1 (if they are really really good), that is not balanced gameplay in any way.

    Ideally, players of equal skill should get the same K/D (more or less), no matter what weapon/vehicle they are skilled at using (a good tanker gets the same K/D as a good Assault). Any deviation from that and we have unbalanced gameplay (and people whining about overpowered this and that). Not that it will ever happen, but still, this gives the best experience for all players in the game.
    Just so I'm clear, you want one infantry, to be like a tank or plane in BF. 

    If so, are they going to all spawn at the same rate?  
  • DingoKillr
    3741 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Austacker wrote: »
    If I'm on a side that's getting smashed by aircraft I'll jump on the AA to try and stem the flow a bit, but I find the AA tends to be a little vulnerable to direct attack from Air.
    There's a reason why good pilots won't deviate from AA positions and directly attack them, they know they can take it out in a single strafe run without too much issue.
    I have no problems with the AA range and the slowness / lead time on your shots.  Even the damage to planes is pretty fair too (you generally cannot take a plane out with 100% hits before your weapon goes into cooldown).
    But I think the damage from Plane to AA is a fair bit lop sided atm in favour of air.
    Only thing I think needs to be buffed is the health on the AA positions to address this particular one.  Probably a 20%-50% increase in health would do the trick.

    SAA health is not the big issue you are more likely to die before the AA is destroyed.
  • ProAssassin2003
    3549 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    You effectively need a whole other squad with you in order to keep yourself safe from infantry that will essentially swarm you if they spot you.

    Which is exactly how it should be.

    The tank is a force multiplier for the team. It's not supposed to be a one-man killing machine, and after the ridiculous tanks we had in BF4, I'm honestly glad DICE went in the direction of requiring tanks to use more teamwork to reach peak effectiveness.

    Do you know why one guy in a tank is most effective sitting on a hill far away and barely helping?

    That's exactly why - because he's one measly player.

    The tank isn't and shouldn't be a tool where one person can hop in it and completely change the tide of battle and put the game in their team's favor.

    It's inherently a teamwork tool meant to be supported by a squad. An entire squad running a tank efficiently can be absolutely terrifying for the opposite team, and they have the potential of staying up and wreaking devastation throughout an entire match if the squad is worth their muster.

    Bad tankers pushing in solo and headstrong are the tankers that get swarmed and killed. And that's how it should be.

    Because you shouldn't be rewarded with a one-man killing machine merely for pressing a button and spawning in a tank.

    BF is no a solo-centric game despite people treating it as such.


    Sorry but this post is so Bias it blows my mind. Let's address the elephant in the room. Lack of Team work. Most people don't use any even Clans. I've been in Clans. Really good Clans. Guess what barely any Teamwork. Players just running around trying to get as much kills as possible usually running a medic class so they can be revived to keep the KDR farm going.

    Not one time in a Clan I was in use Team Work in Tanks. What Team Work is there in Tanks? You can't be a Gunner it's instant death. You can't repair because DICE Magically adds splash damage through Tanks that kill you behind a Tank not to mention the Repair rate is so slow repairing is useless as the damage negates any repair you receive. You can't be a Gunner inside a Tank because the visibility is so terrible everyone just jumps out. Tankers have no option but to be lone wolves and Camp.

    You hate on BF4 and the reason why is because Team Work was most definitely possible in that Battlefield. Repairing was fast. You jumped out instantly. Tanks had proper mobility. And Gunner positions was very useful.

    This fantasy world you are painting doesn't exist in Battlefield 5 for Tanks. Not in my 600 Hours playing the game have I seen any Team Work in Tanks either on my Team or the opposing Team. People camp and Farm Infantry in Tanks in BFV because DICE made them almost completely worthless. I really don't understand why this debate keeps being brought up.

    For one, I don't see how what I said is based on bias. I don't play in a clan nor do I actively play with an entire squad of people - nor do I main vehicles.

    Sorry, but random people not using teamwork is no reason for tanks to be designed around being used by one person. We already experienced that in BF4 and tanks we by far one of the easiest to use things in that game, and in the right hands could be used as a quasi-one-man-army type of tool.

    That shouldn't be the case unless I, an infantryman that just spawned in, can blow any and every tank up from 100 health with the Assault arsenal I spawn in with. That isn't the case either.

    It shouldn't require teamwork to take down a good tanker when that tanker is dominating by himself because the tanks in question are easy as hell to utilize solo.

    Secondly, teamwork in tanks absolutely DOES work in this game and I have a first-hand testimony to it working even if it's completely random people playing.

    So I'm playing a match of Twisted Steel, by myself, in a random squad. One of my random squad mates has been talking this entire time, intermittently making callouts, and pretty much all of us stayed pretty near each other.

    All of a sudden our squad leaders mic cuts on and he says "I'm spawning a Tiger, you guys wanna help?". The other guy whose talking says yeah, spawns in as support. I die, spawn in as support - the fourth guy was assault. We all turn our mics on, we pile in and around this Tiger tank, I spend the rest of the match repairing it and picking off flanking infantry, the assault guy helps the tank with other tanks and vehicles - and we absolutely destroyed the enemy team and our tank lasted the entire match.

    I starkly remember it because it was THE most fun I had in a random squad, ever.

    It isn't a fantasy world I'm painting. It's a fact. Entire squads running tanks in this game can be atrocious, just absolutely diabolical toward the enemy team.

    You run solo, you get your butt kicked. Is your entire squad full of scrubs that can't kill anything or support jack? You get your butt kicked.

    Lmao, and teamwork in BF4? You realize we're talking about essentially the same fanbase, right?

    That isn't teamwork you spouted off about in BF4, that is EVEN MORE evidence of how crazy powerful tanks were in BF4. You even mentioned the gunner seat that didn't expose the gunner, could be switched to instantly, had infinite ammo, and had THERMAL OPTICS.

    Sorry but if you can't realize how immensely easy tanks were to use in that game in comparison to all other BF titles, that's on you.

    Tanks should not be one man killing machines that are easily uncontested by everything else but tanks. You should not be able to roll around with that sort of power merely because you went to the deploy screen and pressed a button.

    If it requires teamwork to take you down, it should require teamwork for you to use the vehicle that requires teamwork to take down. If the method of killing a tank takes actual effort, it should not be effortless to use a tank.

    Sorry, but your personal experience means squat. This game is built around teamwork and teamwork does happen despite what you claim. I see it all the time and experience it all the time. It may not apply to most of the scrubs out there but that's because they're scrubs. That's aside the fact that your profile doesn't communicate 600 hours of experience, more like half that. (unless you're using a different profile now but still played on this profile 2 days ago)

    If you're having trouble finding teamwork you may actually want to seek out other players who want teamwork as well. Ffs, I've found 2 other people on these forums alone that are fantastic team players and that I still play with to this day, and I've had two different fantastic players add me through Xbox live just because we ran a random squad together.

    Insisting teamwork flat out doesn't exist in this game is just as logical as insisting it never happened in any other game in existence. It sounds to me like you're primarily a solo player that doesn't seek out good squad mates at all.

    Lmao your "i haven't seen it, therefore it's never happened" stance is pretty bogus.


    And you having one round of Team Work against Bots doesn't make it exist in BFV. I would say my Corrected 360 Hours of experience playing with many different players with zero Team Work in Tanks is a clearer indicater on how bad Tanks are and the Team Work surrounding them.

    Funny how when DICE have a Repair Friendly Vehicle TOW everyone magically starts using Team Work. People don't use Team Work in Tanks because there is none. Gunner positions suck, repairing sucks. Your option running around a friendly Tank was the only option. You basically proved my point. Why wasn't you inside the Tank? The only option for Team Work in Tanks in BFV is your option or Zerging with Infantry and Tanks.

    BF4 everything for a Tank was useful even for Randoms that wanted to help and I always had a Gunner or a Repair guy. Tanks in BF4 actually would be useful for a Team and Capture Objectives with way more counters against them.

    BF4 was more modern so that helped but there is many things DICE could do to improve Tanks in BFV to make them push and not camp and farm. 5.2 won't help it's going to make Tanks even more of an issue.

    Tanks should be feared in Battlefield and that's not the case in Battlefield 5. People see a Tank it's basically free points to destroy it it's so easy. In BF4 you see a Tank you run or used Team Work to take one out.

    Lmao, it isn't some one time thing. I literally just played with a squad and watched them run a tank as I sniped. Sorry, but you're either lying about never seeing tank teamwork happen or you're just willingly not looking at or seeing it. It happens all the time. I just had to revive one of my friends who got killed by a support who was repairing a tank and switched to their KE7.

    Secondly, how were you not under the impression that a squad using teamwork to run a tank would involve infantry directly supporting the tank?

    Newsflash, infantry repairing the tank is faster than self repair and cannot be interrupted by damage. You have 2 squad mates repairing you and you're essentially indestructible unless you get double-teamed by enemy armor or a tank + stationary. You have repairmen that can whip out and be efficient with LMGs in a hot second and you have high potential of wrecking the enemy team.

    People soloing in tanks and having first person tunnel vision are the ones getting rushed and wrecked by infantry. They put themselves in bad positions with no backup, what do you expect? To get out of an intentional and successfully pulled off sneak attack by assault players unscathed?

    Sorry, but one assault player cannot go head to head with a tank unless the tanker in question is absolutely worthless. Neither could they in BF4, even moreso actually. Both games require teamwork to destroy a tank in a head on confrontation. Both have extremely easy methods of killing tanks if you sneak up on them.

    I know that from experience, I have thousands of C4 kills in BF4 on the Recon class and every single one was an armored vehicle kill. Every tank I killed as Recon got destroyed because they sat in dumb spots on OBJs thinking they were invincible and not paying attention, and had no backup. Tanks with gunners absolutely destroyed me. As it should be, teamwork trumped a sneaky solo player.

    It's the same way in BF5. Two Assault players can't sneak up on your tank if your 3 squad mates are on your rear end helping you.

    Ypu're severely overexaggerating how many people just outright kill skilled tankers by themselves. Usually of a tank gets killed by one assault player they're either not paying attention or they're bad. Either way, it isn't a reason to buff tanks to BF4s ridiculously easy levels.



    I'm done discussing this as your logic is Tanks is fine because people can run around them and protect them. Then the same people like yourself are wanting to know why Tanks camp and Farm Infantry. They are a Joke in BFV. Anybody who has Tanking experience knows this. Even the best Tankers in Battlefield knows this.

    There hasn't been one Tank in my entire time playing Battlefield 5 that I wanted to kill that I haven't succeeded in killing as an Assualt even as a Support. Even a average player or Casual can take out a Great Tanker in Battlefield 5.

    Bottom line this Team Work that you magically experience just doesn't exist in Battlefield anymore expecially for Tanks. You have to get out of the Tank to support it just makes your logic pointless. What makes it even worse is every support player has a repair tool and they still don't help. Be lucky you have a squad that are willing to baby sit a Tank because for the majority of Battlefield players that doesn't exist so you get Camping Tanks.
  • Loqtrall
    12091 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I'm done discussing this as your logic is Tanks is fine because people can run around them and protect them. Then the same people like yourself are wanting to know why Tanks camp and Farm Infantry. They are a Joke in BFV. Anybody who has Tanking experience knows this. Even the best Tankers in Battlefield knows this.

    There hasn't been one Tank in my entire time playing Battlefield 5 that I wanted to kill that I haven't succeeded in killing as an Assualt even as a Support. Even a average player or Casual can take out a Great Tanker in Battlefield 5.

    Bottom line this Team Work that you magically experience just doesn't exist in Battlefield anymore expecially for Tanks. You have to get out of the Tank to support it just makes your logic pointless. What makes it even worse is every support player has a repair tool and they still don't help. Be lucky you have a squad that are willing to baby sit a Tank because for the majority of Battlefield players that doesn't exist so you get Camping Tanks.

    LOL no, people like me do not wonder why most tanks camp hills. I know why - because they're playing by themselves and they're probably mediocre at it.

    Just like a Recon with a rifle who is playing solo and is mediocre at sniping sits back and camps on hills. Just like the Assault player who is playing solo and is mediocre at FPS games sits in the corner of a building waiting for people to walk in.

    That's what solo mediocre players do regardless of how they're playing.

    They're not farming infantry, they're bad. Most of those camping tankers barely muster 10 kills in a 15 minute match of conquest.

    Tanks are not a joke in this game merely because one mediocre scrub can't push objectives and decimate everyone on them while barely getting a scratch. They're a tool that requires teamwork to reach peak effectiveness, not a one man killing machine like you want them to be.

    Lmao, and I'd bet 5 grand that there have been plenty of tanks you've wanted to destroy but haven't. I've ACTUALLY played for over 500 hours and it's happened to me plenty of times - to insist it hasn't happened to you is laughable imo, just like when you insisted you played for over 600 hours or have never seen tank teamwork once in all that time.

    I mean really, you're insisting I'm not worth arguing with when you're the one who severely exaggerated your experience and time played in this game and insist tank teamwork doesn't count if it's infantrymen supporting a tank. Do you honestly expect anyone to take your stance seriously?


    Maybe get some new friends and play with them, dude. What do you expect, completely random people outside your squad that have NO way of communicating with you to stay on your tank the entire round and repair it? Find a good squad, use your mic, find other people that use mics, post a lfg thread on here and reddit - I'm sure there are COUNTLESS players who want to run a good tank squad.

    Maybe go out of your own way to find people to actually run a tank efficiently and you'll actually see how ridiculous it is that you insisted tanks are weak in this game.

    It sounds to me like you just haven't experienced how friggin powerful tanks have the potential to be in this game. It sounds to me like you want to achieve what a full squad does with a tank, but by yourself, which is nonsense.
  • crabman169
    12846 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    "in breaking news a bf player wildly exaggerates his experience playing the game to further his fallacy; more at 6"

    I'm sorry but y'all must be blind if you miss blantently obvious teamwork especially regarding vehicles.

    Tanks are only as strong as their operators. You push in all Rambo by yourself of course you are gonna get rekt. If you sit out on the edge of the map timidly sniping of course you aren't gonna help anyone. You rock up with support ain't no one gonna touch you; I literally had this happen the other night on Iwo Jima. I stuck with my squad and went on a streak and I got repaired and had gunners both inside and out helping. The second I pushed an objective by myself vs 10 enemies like an idiot of course I got rocked (semi deliberate I had finished the week's final ToW node and wanted to be on foot again). I have @Loqtrall here to back that very fact up; speaking of which I remember him telling me about his rando squad experience a while back and honestly I was a little jealous he had such an experience with an entirely random squad and I can speak to the fact he barely plays support (at least when we squad up) Ask him about how many shots on top gunners he took but they didn't register because of some issues and how Dice fixed that; now why would that be a problem that gets fixed if no one helps tanks?

    The entire basis of Battlefield is teamwork. Those that work together succeed and do well whilst those that run off and do their own thing often suffer for it.
  • MBT_Layzan
    1809 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    You effectively need a whole other squad with you in order to keep yourself safe from infantry that will essentially swarm you if they spot you.

    Which is exactly how it should be.

    The tank is a force multiplier for the team. It's not supposed to be a one-man killing machine, and after the ridiculous tanks we had in BF4, I'm honestly glad DICE went in the direction of requiring tanks to use more teamwork to reach peak effectiveness.

    Do you know why one guy in a tank is most effective sitting on a hill far away and barely helping?

    That's exactly why - because he's one measly player.

    The tank isn't and shouldn't be a tool where one person can hop in it and completely change the tide of battle and put the game in their team's favor.

    It's inherently a teamwork tool meant to be supported by a squad. An entire squad running a tank efficiently can be absolutely terrifying for the opposite team, and they have the potential of staying up and wreaking devastation throughout an entire match if the squad is worth their muster.

    Bad tankers pushing in solo and headstrong are the tankers that get swarmed and killed. And that's how it should be.

    Because you shouldn't be rewarded with a one-man killing machine merely for pressing a button and spawning in a tank.

    BF is no a solo-centric game despite people treating it as such.


    Sorry but this post is so Bias it blows my mind. Let's address the elephant in the room. Lack of Team work. Most people don't use any even Clans. I've been in Clans. Really good Clans. Guess what barely any Teamwork. Players just running around trying to get as much kills as possible usually running a medic class so they can be revived to keep the KDR farm going.

    Not one time in a Clan I was in use Team Work in Tanks. What Team Work is there in Tanks? You can't be a Gunner it's instant death. You can't repair because DICE Magically adds splash damage through Tanks that kill you behind a Tank not to mention the Repair rate is so slow repairing is useless as the damage negates any repair you receive. You can't be a Gunner inside a Tank because the visibility is so terrible everyone just jumps out. Tankers have no option but to be lone wolves and Camp.

    You hate on BF4 and the reason why is because Team Work was most definitely possible in that Battlefield. Repairing was fast. You jumped out instantly. Tanks had proper mobility. And Gunner positions was very useful.

    This fantasy world you are painting doesn't exist in Battlefield 5 for Tanks. Not in my 600 Hours playing the game have I seen any Team Work in Tanks either on my Team or the opposing Team. People camp and Farm Infantry in Tanks in BFV because DICE made them almost completely worthless. I really don't understand why this debate keeps being brought up.

    For one, I don't see how what I said is based on bias. I don't play in a clan nor do I actively play with an entire squad of people - nor do I main vehicles.

    Sorry, but random people not using teamwork is no reason for tanks to be designed around being used by one person. We already experienced that in BF4 and tanks we by far one of the easiest to use things in that game, and in the right hands could be used as a quasi-one-man-army type of tool.

    That shouldn't be the case unless I, an infantryman that just spawned in, can blow any and every tank up from 100 health with the Assault arsenal I spawn in with. That isn't the case either.

    It shouldn't require teamwork to take down a good tanker when that tanker is dominating by himself because the tanks in question are easy as hell to utilize solo.

    Secondly, teamwork in tanks absolutely DOES work in this game and I have a first-hand testimony to it working even if it's completely random people playing.

    So I'm playing a match of Twisted Steel, by myself, in a random squad. One of my random squad mates has been talking this entire time, intermittently making callouts, and pretty much all of us stayed pretty near each other.

    All of a sudden our squad leaders mic cuts on and he says "I'm spawning a Tiger, you guys wanna help?". The other guy whose talking says yeah, spawns in as support. I die, spawn in as support - the fourth guy was assault. We all turn our mics on, we pile in and around this Tiger tank, I spend the rest of the match repairing it and picking off flanking infantry, the assault guy helps the tank with other tanks and vehicles - and we absolutely destroyed the enemy team and our tank lasted the entire match.

    I starkly remember it because it was THE most fun I had in a random squad, ever.

    It isn't a fantasy world I'm painting. It's a fact. Entire squads running tanks in this game can be atrocious, just absolutely diabolical toward the enemy team.

    You run solo, you get your butt kicked. Is your entire squad full of scrubs that can't kill anything or support jack? You get your butt kicked.

    Lmao, and teamwork in BF4? You realize we're talking about essentially the same fanbase, right?

    That isn't teamwork you spouted off about in BF4, that is EVEN MORE evidence of how crazy powerful tanks were in BF4. You even mentioned the gunner seat that didn't expose the gunner, could be switched to instantly, had infinite ammo, and had THERMAL OPTICS.

    Sorry but if you can't realize how immensely easy tanks were to use in that game in comparison to all other BF titles, that's on you.

    Tanks should not be one man killing machines that are easily uncontested by everything else but tanks. You should not be able to roll around with that sort of power merely because you went to the deploy screen and pressed a button.

    If it requires teamwork to take you down, it should require teamwork for you to use the vehicle that requires teamwork to take down. If the method of killing a tank takes actual effort, it should not be effortless to use a tank.

    Sorry, but your personal experience means squat. This game is built around teamwork and teamwork does happen despite what you claim. I see it all the time and experience it all the time. It may not apply to most of the scrubs out there but that's because they're scrubs. That's aside the fact that your profile doesn't communicate 600 hours of experience, more like half that. (unless you're using a different profile now but still played on this profile 2 days ago)

    If you're having trouble finding teamwork you may actually want to seek out other players who want teamwork as well. Ffs, I've found 2 other people on these forums alone that are fantastic team players and that I still play with to this day, and I've had two different fantastic players add me through Xbox live just because we ran a random squad together.

    Insisting teamwork flat out doesn't exist in this game is just as logical as insisting it never happened in any other game in existence. It sounds to me like you're primarily a solo player that doesn't seek out good squad mates at all.

    Lmao your "i haven't seen it, therefore it's never happened" stance is pretty bogus.


    And you having one round of Team Work against Bots doesn't make it exist in BFV. I would say my Corrected 360 Hours of experience playing with many different players with zero Team Work in Tanks is a clearer indicater on how bad Tanks are and the Team Work surrounding them.

    Funny how when DICE have a Repair Friendly Vehicle TOW everyone magically starts using Team Work. People don't use Team Work in Tanks because there is none. Gunner positions suck, repairing sucks. Your option running around a friendly Tank was the only option. You basically proved my point. Why wasn't you inside the Tank? The only option for Team Work in Tanks in BFV is your option or Zerging with Infantry and Tanks.

    BF4 everything for a Tank was useful even for Randoms that wanted to help and I always had a Gunner or a Repair guy. Tanks in BF4 actually would be useful for a Team and Capture Objectives with way more counters against them.

    BF4 was more modern so that helped but there is many things DICE could do to improve Tanks in BFV to make them push and not camp and farm. 5.2 won't help it's going to make Tanks even more of an issue.

    Tanks should be feared in Battlefield and that's not the case in Battlefield 5. People see a Tank it's basically free points to destroy it it's so easy. In BF4 you see a Tank you run or used Team Work to take one out.

    Lmao, it isn't some one time thing. I literally just played with a squad and watched them run a tank as I sniped. Sorry, but you're either lying about never seeing tank teamwork happen or you're just willingly not looking at or seeing it. It happens all the time. I just had to revive one of my friends who got killed by a support who was repairing a tank and switched to their KE7.

    Secondly, how were you not under the impression that a squad using teamwork to run a tank would involve infantry directly supporting the tank?

    Newsflash, infantry repairing the tank is faster than self repair and cannot be interrupted by damage. You have 2 squad mates repairing you and you're essentially indestructible unless you get double-teamed by enemy armor or a tank + stationary. You have repairmen that can whip out and be efficient with LMGs in a hot second and you have high potential of wrecking the enemy team.

    People soloing in tanks and having first person tunnel vision are the ones getting rushed and wrecked by infantry. They put themselves in bad positions with no backup, what do you expect? To get out of an intentional and successfully pulled off sneak attack by assault players unscathed?

    Sorry, but one assault player cannot go head to head with a tank unless the tanker in question is absolutely worthless. Neither could they in BF4, even moreso actually. Both games require teamwork to destroy a tank in a head on confrontation. Both have extremely easy methods of killing tanks if you sneak up on them.

    I know that from experience, I have thousands of C4 kills in BF4 on the Recon class and every single one was an armored vehicle kill. Every tank I killed as Recon got destroyed because they sat in dumb spots on OBJs thinking they were invincible and not paying attention, and had no backup. Tanks with gunners absolutely destroyed me. As it should be, teamwork trumped a sneaky solo player.

    It's the same way in BF5. Two Assault players can't sneak up on your tank if your 3 squad mates are on your rear end helping you.

    Ypu're severely overexaggerating how many people just outright kill skilled tankers by themselves. Usually of a tank gets killed by one assault player they're either not paying attention or they're bad. Either way, it isn't a reason to buff tanks to BF4s ridiculously easy levels.



    I'm done discussing this as your logic is Tanks is fine because people can run around them and protect them. Then the same people like yourself are wanting to know why Tanks camp and Farm Infantry. They are a Joke in BFV. Anybody who has Tanking experience knows this. Even the best Tankers in Battlefield knows this.

    There hasn't been one Tank in my entire time playing Battlefield 5 that I wanted to kill that I haven't succeeded in killing as an Assualt even as a Support. Even a average player or Casual can take out a Great Tanker in Battlefield 5.

    Bottom line this Team Work that you magically experience just doesn't exist in Battlefield anymore expecially for Tanks. You have to get out of the Tank to support it just makes your logic pointless. What makes it even worse is every support player has a repair tool and they still don't help. Be lucky you have a squad that are willing to baby sit a Tank because for the majority of Battlefield players that doesn't exist so you get Camping Tanks.
    I'm inclined to agree. Probably got more tanking experience than everyone in this thread rolled together in BF. 

    I've seen the odd support come to fix me which to be honest most times I have to leave the poor guy because I need to keep moving towards the nearest depot or get out of LOS of whatever. You can't communicate this to them and you often can't afford to stand your ground. Since pacific breakthrough I do see way more players fixing depots which is nice. But ultimately that's where it ends.

    I see way more players blocking vital access to depots with anti tank blockades that the enemy can't even access yet or never will, which messes up the tanks on defence for example on breakthrough because it takes way longer to get ammo etc, you can't use the depot at the contested area, all hell is breaking loose there. They will literally see the tank trying to get to the depot and continue to build that crap stopping you. It really annoys me when they block bridges on pacific storm when I'm in a type 97, because the water near the bridge points though shallow will randomly chuck you out of that tank, never the Sherman. They even build this crap behind your tank while your engaged!

    It seems anytime I leave the tank with someone inside to fix a depot, they roll off in the tank so now I never leave the tank if someones inside or around, unless it's critical to do so. As in I'm on real low health and suffered multiple disables that will simply take too long to self repair. And watch those randoms race for the tank to try and steal it, then you jump in and they change direction.  

    I see friendlies placing dynamite over my tanks, trying the same with mines to troll me. Idiots firing the MG at nothing, or at planes to basically tell everyone where we are. Hey lets shoot the enemy tank with MG and see what happens, better yet, the to top MG, oh your dead and that tank I was about to flank has now been made aware of me, nice..... 

    It would be nice to move with infantry but where they gather in numbers it's often a smoke screen everywhere. Infantry will throw smoke in front of the tank too, I'd understand this if it was to get them to a place they wanted to be, but I turn to see them run off in the opposite direction, thanks mate. They never shoot enemy mines either, never seen this. 

    (Sound), this is a critical reason why I can't roll with my infantry, I can't hear the enemy infantry coming. Too many times I've been blown up despite being surround by my sides troops. One enemy assault lands a disable on you as even bird poo will disable a tank in BFV, then a tank starts working you down or plane, or whatever, or he gets to place all his explosives and your toast while your side runs about like headless chickens. In BFV being able to hear them is one of the most effective way's to save your tank from hidden enemy troops or those flanking you. But with all your randoms around that is no longer the case.

    I've been zerg rushed on the retreat and my men are like prone trying to snipe whatever half way across the map, don't worry about our tank that's on fire being swarmed by several assault, I'm going to try and take out that guy on the attacking team's battleship who's using the fix cannon, or hunt that tiny head that keeps popping up on a hill miles off.   

    Attrition, this wonderful game design means you could be rolling with the A TEAM, it's wonderful, but then you have to break away from your side to a depot miles away.   
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