Responding to your concerns - Update 5.2

Comments

  • DrunkOnRedWine
    1641 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    VincentNZ said:
    trip1ex wrote: »
    (Quote)
    all part of the plan.   >:)

    Are you referring to the New Coke plan? Where DICE changes the TTK then returns it back to it's original form, then calls it "Coca-Cola Classic".

    It sure feels like there's push back from the gameplay designers to keep BFV's hardcore insta deathy gameplay. :worried:
    Then they are doing an awful job, because the "new" 5.2 is worse in all aspects, since it would kill TTK even more at range, and keep "instant deaths" up close <10m. It is beyond stupid, I have no idea what they are thinking. Unless of course their design premise is to make everyone equally unhappy.
    One has to question their motives at this point. I'm coming back with answers that do not please me
  • VincentNZ
    3499 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    (Quote)

    I do not think that holds up, through Premium in BF4 we got 20 weapons, five for each DLC excluding Final Stand. We also got the Bow. Map specific we got the X-1 Accipiter, the RAWR and the Rorsch. Maybe I missed something.
    .On the gadget front we got 6 (7 If you count the Airburst UCAV) and a mod with the target detector.
    .In BF5 I calculated 25 weapons and 1 gadget so far, wit 4 and 1 coming up. Also two map specific gadgets. So it will overtake BF4 in a couple of weeks, but we are still quite some ways away from the weapon and gadget count we had in total.

    I think he means BF4 had a lot of weapons and some were very very similar ex. the AR160, AUG, CZ805, and AK5C...

    We already have a lot of semi autos that are very similar in BFV. I haven't even bothered unlocking the MAS and AGM. Same with MMGs.

    Yeah I know, I wasn't directly aiming at him, just adding my thoughts to it. I personally have no issues with similar weapons. Quite the contrary, if you have the SAR-21 on one end an the FAMAS on the other, you can pick just the one that you feel most comfortable with. Low to High ROF? Small or large Calibre? Bullpup or Standard Stock?
    Way better then just adding more weapons with different damage models and tight niches, as they are planning now. So in BF4 in the end it was like 87 weapons or something plus gadgets that were all pretty viable.
    What we will get with 5.2 is very specific weaponry with the only optimal and even then, nerfed, gadget choices. That is bothering me the most at the moment. Whenever you choose the PF you are doing it wrong, when you choose the spotting scope you are doing it wrong, Running mines is wrong. Apparently playing the support class to DICE, is wrong, and even then there is a good chance to be more wrong than every other class when you equip the ammo pouch.
  • Loqtrall
    12091 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    (Quote)
    First off,I have no problem with "statistically" identical weapons. And even more so in BF5's case,where not everyone is going to run the exact same attachments on every gun. With the spec trees they can (If they're not feeling casually lazy) make weapons that function identically at start,behave differently with upgrades. An example would have been the Panzerbuchse being converted into the Granatbuchse and make it a completely different thing than the Boys AT, or the more recent M1 Garand actually being something to change the pace of past SAR's
    There are a lot of reasons for "statistically" identical guns. Some people want guns that fit their factions (Lanchester/MP28. The Lanchester is actually in the game's code) or just wanting something new to play with, ontop of the fact there were a -lot- of weird weapons designed during WW2 that were terrible in combat,could be dropped here without their faults and add something unique (Breda Modello 30 and the upcoming Type 11LMG to name two. Hell even the Trombocino was considered a failure)
    -Second,vehicles. There are a lot of neglected vehicle archetype that aren't used. Supply vehicles,command vehicles, variants (Like the -hound family M8 Greyhound is the first that come to mind. But the T18 Boar, T17 Deer, M38 Wolf. Either as cosmetic overhauls for vehicles or outright seperate ones) I mean,look at the SPA that were hinted at way early on and still nothing,let alone more vehicles for Japan and USA. Larger planes like the Lancaster,and so on...
    -And ontop of that,it doesn't have to be anything -new-. The amount of things left inside the game,for one reason or another is baffling. The Fliger has been in since launch,and advertised before that. The Chauchat and magnet mines. The countless sidearms ect....
    -Then finally if you consider gadgets. The 5v5 gadgets which,thankfully some were found again in the most recent patch's directories. Gadgets,which the game has been sorely lacking,which will really help change up the pace..
    Either two things will happen1. The new gadgets are good,and more people will shift off of the few pre-exsisting options to use them,difersifying the soldier pool (like what happened when the fliger was released,gave tanks a chance to do anything)2. They will be weak or niche,which will give the option there for people who want to use them,and not effect the overall meta.
    .Either way will be adding something,and boost morale considerably just for the fact of -something- being added to the game that wasn't cosmetics-And finally,don't get me wrong. The game has things it needs,badly. Anti-cheat being my most requested thing. But modeling/texturing is a completely seperate job from the coders and such. The ToW weekly rewards are not tied to getting working team-balance and so on.This forum post alone proves that point,dispite everything they're messing with the game's statisics above all else,while guns and gadgets pile up internally,cheating is out of control,and the matches that aren't ruined by cheating are ruined by uneven teams,plus this whole "hush hush" mentality they have now.There's two more maps,salvaged from the 5v5 mode,in the game/coming soon,but are being tightliped about it

    See the problem with all of this is that you're basing content that should be added on things random third parties data mined that, for all we know, DICE never planned to add to full 64p multi-player modes - for instance, like the gadgets designed specifically for the 5v5 mode that was scrapped.

    See this is where people sharing data mined stuff is a double edged sword. Sure, it shows you things you MIGHT be getting, but it also shows you unfinished random crap that the data miner dug DEEP into the file directory to find, and that are only hinted at through one or two files merely by the mention of a name.

    That's not guaranteed content nor is it announced or planned content. Could you imagine how many things data miners would have found during Bf4 or bf1 that we didn't end up getting?

    But I digress - my point was there is already "something" other than cosmetics in this game. BF5 in 12 months already has more weapons and vehicles than Premium provided in past games throughout their entire life cycle. That's on top of maps, combined arms, Firestorm, the last tiger, various melee weapons, etc, etc. Cosmetics aren't even remotely the only type of content that has been added, and again cosmetics are what essentially every AAA free live service game bases it's service around.

    Come this time next year if year one was anything to go by, BF5 has the potential to end up with the most overall dlc content out of any BF game in the history of the franchise, and it'll be free.

    There is absolutely no reason for them to add a new weapon or gadget to the game nearly every single week. In terms of live services in the AAA gaming industry, that amount and type of content in such a time frame is completely unprecedented.
  • stringy82
    28 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    GRAW2ROBZ wrote: »
    Just when the numbers of players rising.  Now they could kill it off. 
    Yeah your probably right about that as I’ve had the game since launch, have about 300 hours in bfv and I lost interest in the game as soon as I heard about these changes. I stopped playing and I won’t be back unless they revert to the ttk we like. The ttk was the best thing about bfv. Rof may increase but it’s still lame to have to shoot someone many times to put them down. The last thing they should change is the best thing that the game has going for it. The ttk change actually got me to jump ship and buy cod 😂 which I haven’t bought since the Xbox 360 era
  • Foxassassin
    167 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited December 2
    Loqtrall said:
    (Quote)
    First off,I have no problem with "statistically" identical weapons. And even more so in BF5's case,where not everyone is going to run the exact same attachments on every gun. With the spec trees they can (If they're not feeling casually lazy) make weapons that function identically at start,behave differently with upgrades. An example would have been the Panzerbuchse being converted into the Granatbuchse and make it a completely different thing than the Boys AT, or the more recent M1 Garand actually being something to change the pace of past SAR's
    There are a lot of reasons for "statistically" identical guns. Some people want guns that fit their factions (Lanchester/MP28. The Lanchester is actually in the game's code) or just wanting something new to play with, ontop of the fact there were a -lot- of weird weapons designed during WW2 that were terrible in combat,could be dropped here without their faults and add something unique (Breda Modello 30 and the upcoming Type 11LMG to name two. Hell even the Trombocino was considered a failure)
    -Second,vehicles. There are a lot of neglected vehicle archetype that aren't used. Supply vehicles,command vehicles, variants (Like the -hound family M8 Greyhound is the first that come to mind. But the T18 Boar, T17 Deer, M38 Wolf. Either as cosmetic overhauls for vehicles or outright seperate ones) I mean,look at the SPA that were hinted at way early on and still nothing,let alone more vehicles for Japan and USA. Larger planes like the Lancaster,and so on...
    -And ontop of that,it doesn't have to be anything -new-. The amount of things left inside the game,for one reason or another is baffling. The Fliger has been in since launch,and advertised before that. The Chauchat and magnet mines. The countless sidearms ect....
    -Then finally if you consider gadgets. The 5v5 gadgets which,thankfully some were found again in the most recent patch's directories. Gadgets,which the game has been sorely lacking,which will really help change up the pace..
    Either two things will happen1. The new gadgets are good,and more people will shift off of the few pre-exsisting options to use them,difersifying the soldier pool (like what happened when the fliger was released,gave tanks a chance to do anything)2. They will be weak or niche,which will give the option there for people who want to use them,and not effect the overall meta.
    .Either way will be adding something,and boost morale considerably just for the fact of -something- being added to the game that wasn't cosmetics-And finally,don't get me wrong. The game has things it needs,badly. Anti-cheat being my most requested thing. But modeling/texturing is a completely seperate job from the coders and such. The ToW weekly rewards are not tied to getting working team-balance and so on.This forum post alone proves that point,dispite everything they're messing with the game's statisics above all else,while guns and gadgets pile up internally,cheating is out of control,and the matches that aren't ruined by cheating are ruined by uneven teams,plus this whole "hush hush" mentality they have now.There's two more maps,salvaged from the 5v5 mode,in the game/coming soon,but are being tightliped about it

    See the problem with all of this is that you're basing content that should be added on things random third parties data mined that, for all we know, DICE never planned to add to full 64p multi-player modes - for instance, like the gadgets designed specifically for the 5v5 mode that was scrapped.

    See this is where people sharing data mined stuff is a double edged sword. Sure, it shows you things you MIGHT be getting, but it also shows you unfinished random crap that the data miner dug DEEP into the file directory to find, and that are only hinted at through one or two files merely by the mention of a name.

    That's not guaranteed content nor is it announced or planned content. Could you imagine how many things data miners would have found during Bf4 or bf1 that we didn't end up getting?

    But I digress - my point was there is already "something" other than cosmetics in this game. BF5 in 12 months already has more weapons and vehicles than Premium provided in past games throughout their entire life cycle. That's on top of maps, combined arms, Firestorm, the last tiger, various melee weapons, etc, etc. Cosmetics aren't even remotely the only type of content that has been added, and again cosmetics are what essentially every AAA free live service game bases it's service around.

    Come this time next year if year one was anything to go by, BF5 has the potential to end up with the most overall dlc content out of any BF game in the history of the franchise, and it'll be free.

    There is absolutely no reason for them to add a new weapon or gadget to the game nearly every single week. In terms of live services in the AAA gaming industry, that amount and type of content in such a time frame is completely unprecedented.
    But it's not just "third party data". Look back through the numerous chapter updates. Things that were used to promote an update,and we still don't have. Weapons and gadgets that have masteries and dog-tags,or things like the PPK and such that had promo-art publicly available. I didn't include things that have a single line referencing them,like the Colt Monitor (Which is just a BAR with a pistol grip and a short barrel).
    Things that are either IN the game,in a functional state,being held back for some undisclosed time in the future,or openly announced
    Panzershrek
    M1A1 Bazooka
    Chauchat
    PPK
    Silenced 1911
    M2 Carbine
    1903 Springfield
    1917 Enfield
    M1 Thompson/M1A1 variant
    Welrod
    Welgun
    Patchet
    Lanchester
    Limpet mines
    Magnet mines
    Sjogren
    .
    The British Bishop tank,is show on several maps in a wrecked state,which,just like the Archer did before it,uses the same wrecked models for prop peices on maps,and a fully rigged and working variant of it is just....sitting there now.
    Then if we look at things like the Welbike,BMW R12,Hummel,Marder 3
    .
    That's just stuff prior to chapter 5
    We are in an entirely different part of the war,and we have next to nothing for the ****/American side of things. Weapons which where show in the 5 trailer,we have to wait two,nearly three months to get? And does that mean we should just not get anything else on the eastern side?
    -
    And yes,it's not hard to find cut content for Battlefield 3 and 4. They had plenty of stuff that was removed or otherwise,the problem is,those games didn't leave FULLY FINISHED guns waiting in limbo for the company to just "turn them on"
    The only example I can think of is the G17 from BF4. It's there,functional,but just not available
    -
    And of course you'd try to use a presumptuous "Want it every week" No. I don't. I understand worker's limitations. But I also don't want to wait two months for a single peice of content to be added when the game is just sitting on a pile of them,waiting to be dripfed to us at their leisure. This game was being touted as being massively bigger than any previous Battlefield game,so why do we just have to "stop" just because we've (debatablly) gotten the same amount of content? That's the entire premise of live serivce games,a constant stream of new things,that just adds and adds untill the game's lifecyle is up,content that's given when it's done.
    -
    It's always absolutes with you people. One side of the spectrum or the other,never an intermediate ground....

  • Christo04002283
    68 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited December 2
    PartWelsh wrote: »
    quote removed

    I hate the visibility in this game because it creates campers.
    Post edited by LOLGotYerTags on
  • CrashCA
    1092 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    What was the point of the massive quote ??
  • LOLGotYerTags
    13466 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    CrashCA said:
    What was the point of the massive quote ??
    Fixed
  • IDazzlerazzle
    469 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I'm wondering what they gonna do once all the Christmas people gonna leave...
  • Snake126
    23 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Yeah, these changes will not be good....at all.

    If you want to really balance the weapons, inflict damage by bullet type, every .303 does the same damage, the differences between the guns would be reload rate, overheat, accuracy and stability.  That's how the game should be balanced.  A Bren gun and a Lee Enfield should do the same damage per bullet.
  • MintySSD
    75 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    So when is this update out ?

  • scienceteacher74
    119 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Snake126 said:
    Yeah, these changes will not be good....at all.

    If you want to really balance the weapons, inflict damage by bullet type, every .303 does the same damage, the differences between the guns would be reload rate, overheat, accuracy and stability.  That's how the game should be balanced.  A Bren gun and a Lee Enfield should do the same damage per bullet.
    Wait, what? you think that a bullet from a bolt action should do the same damage as a tommy gun?! lmao, I am glad you don't design fps games, holy cow
  • scienceteacher74
    119 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited December 3
    DICE, 

    I literally never log in to any game specific forum. With your proposed TTK update, you changed that. 

    No one in the community asked for this. One of the main reasons I didn't enjoy BF1 as I do BFV is the ridiculous amoutn of ammo i have to pump into a player. You literally are moving back in this direction with no HC option for me to opt out of this. As a competitive game, i shouldn't be punished for getting the drop on someone by turning guns into nothing more than potatoes. 

    For the record, I'm against this and frustrated that you even are contemplating it. I don't enjoy cod, but if im going to have to go somewhere else to get my non bullet sponge FPS fix, i guess it will do. 



    the people who make complaints about this stuff are usually the low skilled players who rely on being fast as opposed to accurate or well placed. I think this ttk is a move n the right direction, it offers a higher skill ceiling for good players with good aim and good positioning as opposed to being twitchy and lucky, enjoy cod :smiley:
  • Kurywusaki
    12 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited December 3
    And yet again Dice caters to the children.


    Fine Dice, ruin the game even more, make everyone have that bloody annoying 3D spotted tag over their heads again so the absolute blind noobs that play this game have half a chance...
    (profanity removed by moderator)
    Post edited by Carbonic on
  • BeastofBourbon84
    372 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    (Quote)
    Wait, what? you think that a bullet from a bolt action should do the same damage as a tommy gun?! lmao, I am glad you don't design fps games, holy cow

    The commando carbine is the only bar that shoots the same bullet as the Tommy.

    The bren and the smle both shoot 303.

    If you want to be a smart **** (especially in your second comment) you should at least get your facts straight.

    Oh and for the record I don't agree with snakes idea just putting it out there.
  • VincentNZ
    3499 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    DICE, 

    I literally never log in to any game specific forum. With your proposed TTK update, you changed that. 

    No one in the community asked for this. One of the main reasons I didn't enjoy BF1 as I do BFV is the ridiculous amoutn of ammo i have to pump into a player. You literally are moving back in this direction with no HC option for me to opt out of this. As a competitive game, i shouldn't be punished for getting the drop on someone by turning guns into nothing more than potatoes. 

    For the record, I'm against this and frustrated that you even are contemplating it. I don't enjoy cod, but if im going to have to go somewhere else to get my non bullet sponge FPS fix, i guess it will do. 



    the people who make complaints about this stuff are usually the low skilled players who rely on being fast as opposed to accurate or well placed. I think this ttk is a move n the right direction, it offers a higher skill ceiling for good players with good aim and good positioning as opposed to being twitchy and lucky, enjoy cod :smiley:
    @scienceteacher74 Mate you will be the one the most affected negatively by this change. Your accuracy is below average, which means you will need even more bullets to secure a kill, than a guy with average or higher accuracy. Plus, if you compensate with a faster reaction time or rely on the enemy's reaction time since you flank a lot and are in a better spot, you will be screwed twice. This patch solely focuses on the mouse skills, no soft skills like movement, flanking, engagement control or any form of cognitive thinking.
  • tullyscurry
    6 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    DICE, 

    I literally never log in to any game specific forum. With your proposed TTK update, you changed that. 

    No one in the community asked for this. One of the main reasons I didn't enjoy BF1 as I do BFV is the ridiculous amoutn of ammo i have to pump into a player. You literally are moving back in this direction with no HC option for me to opt out of this. As a competitive game, i shouldn't be punished for getting the drop on someone by turning guns into nothing more than potatoes. 

    For the record, I'm against this and frustrated that you even are contemplating it. I don't enjoy cod, but if im going to have to go somewhere else to get my non bullet sponge FPS fix, i guess it will do. 



    the people who make complaints about this stuff are usually the low skilled players who rely on being fast as opposed to accurate or well placed. I think this ttk is a move n the right direction, it offers a higher skill ceiling for good players with good aim and good positioning as opposed to being twitchy and lucky, enjoy cod :smiley:
    Deriding someones comment based on skill solely because you disagree with them is passive- my K/D ratio and teamwork doesn't lie so i'll ignore it. Luckily you can have good reaction times as well as placing rounds down range on target. 
  • One_Called_Kane
    194 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Snake126 said:
    Yeah, these changes will not be good....at all.

    If you want to really balance the weapons, inflict damage by bullet type, every .303 does the same damage, the differences between the guns would be reload rate, overheat, accuracy and stability.  That's how the game should be balanced.  A Bren gun and a Lee Enfield should do the same damage per bullet.
    Wait, what? you think that a bullet from a bolt action should do the same damage as a tommy gun?! lmao, I am glad you don't design fps games, holy cow
    I mean, you're right, but please feel free to run .303 British through your Thompson and let us know how that goes for you.

    Obligatory "video game balance trumps realism" aside, even in real life not all rifle rounds are created equal.  The .303 rounds a sniper puts through his No.4 are not the same as the .303 rounds that you put through your Bren.
  • spartanx169x
    764 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    First  THANKS to OP for the incredibly detailed post.  I have not played in months and I'm very excited to jump in and see how it plays.

    Secondly, I remain quite amazed  that people remain opposed to making the game more accessible to ALL players. and continue to ignore the fact that this game has been an utter disaster from a sales point of view.   This means there are things that are fundamentally wrong with the game. It also means that something must be done.  It is clear by the post that they have spent an excessive amount of time  and effort to make this a better game FOR EVERYBODY which includes past, present  AND future players.  Also, "All players" means possibly and likely thousands that do not come here. Furthermore, after implementing this change it is indeed likely they will do another free weekend or two to draw players in if for no other reason than to get more data and do another assessment. 
Sign In or Register to comment.