5.2 TTK change [Megathread]

Comments

  • DingoKillr
    3741 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    (Quote)
    It is about good player vs bad player. DICE has alluded to this twice now, once last December, and now a year later.

    Who is a good Player? The guy that needs 5 bullets to kill at 100m or the guy that uses 7(or less) instead of 11 bullets @ 100m.

    The latter is what DICE is talking about making skill the difference not the weapon.
    Neither? The good player is the one that knows how to navigate the map, understands the flow of the enemy team, and prevents themselves from getting killed at a distance.

    Skill is the difference. Always will be regardless of what happens to the TTK.

    Also, that definitely isn't what they're talking about. They have clearly stated they want this game to be more accessible. They don't do that making the game more skillful. That's a worn out argument which makes zero sense.
    Your definition has nothing to do with changes DICE are talking about. Players can learn those with any way weapons work.
  • talhaONE
    224 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    (Quote)

    It is certainly not a twitch shooter. The TTK is higher all the way when compared to most classic shooters out there. With their "100m SMG" statements DICE pretty much disqualified themselves, as it is simply not possible to reliably hit with an SMG at 90ish meters and beyond, unless you choose barrel bedding, at which point your weapon loses it's niche, while still performing worse than anything else at that range.Also if you think that the STG is the meta weapon you are in error. The while the STG 1-5 is a decent weapon the STG 44 is the most outclassed weapon in the whole assault and support kit. It suffers from high recoil, an awful pattern with a medium damage output, and is pretty much forced into the right spec tree, which makes it awful up close, while shoehorning it into a ranged role it can not satisfyingly.There are a ton of skill cannons already in this game: Every weapon with a lower mag capacity requires pristine accuracy in a game with 64 people. Every weapon that relies on a certain playstyle to work (and that includes hipfire SMGs, PCs and using MMGs to advantage) are skillcannons.
    Within these classes there are weapons that work better in certain regards, yet it is all compromise. The Tommy and Suomi's hipfire is crap beyond 12ish meters, when compared to all other SMGs, since they are lacking Polished Action, so there is a whole range of them being outclassed by slower firing weapons.
    DICE correctly identified that certain weapons are "overused", yet they are seeing this as a problem of TTK, which it isn't, instead of them being unable to communicate to the player correctly the use of each gun. So they decide to shoehorn everything into a tight niche and claim that will solve the issue of everyone using the crazily OP Sten gun, while the real reasons players pick certain weapons instead of others are not touched.
    What a nice try to defend meta guns.
  • CHAMMOND1992
    1255 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    (Quote)
    It is about good player vs bad player. DICE has alluded to this twice now, once last December, and now a year later.

    Who is a good Player? The guy that needs 5 bullets to kill at 100m or the guy that uses 7(or less) instead of 11 bullets @ 100m.

    The latter is what DICE is talking about making skill the difference not the weapon.
    Neither? The good player is the one that knows how to navigate the map, understands the flow of the enemy team, and prevents themselves from getting killed at a distance.

    Skill is the difference. Always will be regardless of what happens to the TTK.

    Also, that definitely isn't what they're talking about. They have clearly stated they want this game to be more accessible. They don't do that making the game more skillful. That's a worn out argument which makes zero sense.
    Your definition has nothing to do with changes DICE are talking about. Players can learn those with any way weapons work.
    It has everything to do with what DICE is talking about. Hence why they are adjusting the TTK at range for all weapons but sniper rifles and bolt actions. People have no idea how to play the maps, thus DICE is accommodating them by making it more forgiving being shot at down range.
  • BeastofBourbon84
    372 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    talhaONE said:
    What a nice try to defend meta guns.
    He's completely right though.

    I think a big problem in the community is that most people play 1 or 2 classes exclusively so they want other guns nerfed and "their guns" buffed.
    We've seen it in the past:
    Fliegerfaust.
    Alot of players that never fly rejoiced because they finally got something that was (in my book) totaly op yet they loved it because it allowed them to shoot down the planes they hate so much.
    So bombers just strafed higher.

    AP mines.
    Some people complained so instead of tweaking them a little or giving them to fewer classes dice made it practically impossible to score a kill with them.
    So players just ditched that gadget completely.

    Rifle grenade.
    Guess i'll just switch to dynamite.

    MMGs
    TTK5.2 will satisfy "prone meta" haters by making them completely obsolete.
    Will AT guns be next? We'll have to wait and see.

    The list goes on and i fear that some will only be satisfied once everything is bad and feels weak.
    "Hey i can't kill anything anymore but at least i never die either :| "
  • VincentNZ
    3499 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    talhaONE said:
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    (Quote)

    It is certainly not a twitch shooter. The TTK is higher all the way when compared to most classic shooters out there. With their "100m SMG" statements DICE pretty much disqualified themselves, as it is simply not possible to reliably hit with an SMG at 90ish meters and beyond, unless you choose barrel bedding, at which point your weapon loses it's niche, while still performing worse than anything else at that range.Also if you think that the STG is the meta weapon you are in error. The while the STG 1-5 is a decent weapon the STG 44 is the most outclassed weapon in the whole assault and support kit. It suffers from high recoil, an awful pattern with a medium damage output, and is pretty much forced into the right spec tree, which makes it awful up close, while shoehorning it into a ranged role it can not satisfyingly.There are a ton of skill cannons already in this game: Every weapon with a lower mag capacity requires pristine accuracy in a game with 64 people. Every weapon that relies on a certain playstyle to work (and that includes hipfire SMGs, PCs and using MMGs to advantage) are skillcannons.
    Within these classes there are weapons that work better in certain regards, yet it is all compromise. The Tommy and Suomi's hipfire is crap beyond 12ish meters, when compared to all other SMGs, since they are lacking Polished Action, so there is a whole range of them being outclassed by slower firing weapons.
    DICE correctly identified that certain weapons are "overused", yet they are seeing this as a problem of TTK, which it isn't, instead of them being unable to communicate to the player correctly the use of each gun. So they decide to shoehorn everything into a tight niche and claim that will solve the issue of everyone using the crazily OP Sten gun, while the real reasons players pick certain weapons instead of others are not touched.
    What a nice try to defend meta guns.
    The STG44 is the WORST weapon in the whole Assault kit. Is it overused? Yes. The Turner is the BEST weapon in the Assault Kit. Is it used at all? Barely. Why is that? Because the STG44 is iconic.
    The only relevant weapons in the recon kit are the SLRs and the P08. Not used. What is used? Literally the worst weapon class there is in this game. The BAs, even though the Medic's BACs outclass them in all regards in their own niche. Why is that? Because the sniper playstyle is simply so attractive.
    The Tommy is another overused iconic weapon, yet is equal in estimated FTK in hipfire at 15m and loses against the others at 25m in ADS engagements, when compared to the MP40/Sten. And that is even with 100% recoil control. Against real SMG contenders, like the MAB or MP28 it is much worse. The Tommy/Suomi are nice for point blank engagements and lose relevance soon after.
    For the support class I do not even know, as beyond the MG42 the class is barely played.
    Players chose iconicness over relevance, choose looks and feel over stats, and the rest choose weapons to fulfill an arbitrary goal. The real meta guns are not used at all for various reasons.
  • BaronVonGoon
    6975 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    (Quote)
    The STG44 is the WORST weapon in the whole Assault kit. Is it overused? Yes. The Turner is the BEST weapon in the Assault Kit. Is it used at all? Barely. Why is that? Because the STG44 is iconic.The only relevant weapons in the recon kit are the SLRs and the P08. Not used. What is used?

    Hmm maybe. STG is my most used because it's a classic assault rifle and I always gravitate towards assault rifles. I disagree on the worst assault weapon part, what do you have that on? It's super versatile and easy to use.

    Turner is my least used because while it has very similar stats to a Gewehr 1-5 but I find it harder to control, not sure why because according to Symthic they have similar stats. Also, the reload time is worse. I think most would go for ease of use rather than 1 less bullet at range that the Turner offers.
  • VincentNZ
    3499 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    (Quote)
    The STG44 is the WORST weapon in the whole Assault kit. Is it overused? Yes. The Turner is the BEST weapon in the Assault Kit. Is it used at all? Barely. Why is that? Because the STG44 is iconic.The only relevant weapons in the recon kit are the SLRs and the P08. Not used. What is used?

    Hmm maybe. STG is my most used because it's a classic assault rifle and I always gravitate towards assault rifles. I disagree on the worst assault weapon part, what do you have that on? It's super versatile and easy to use.

    Turner is my least used because while it has very similar stats to a Gewehr 1-5 but I find it harder to control, not sure why because according to Symthic they have similar stats. Also, the reload time is worse. I think most would go for ease of use rather than 1 less bullet at range that the Turner offers.
    First of all there is nothing wrong with sub-par choices or choices that simply feel good. It is all very individual and subjective on a personal level. The reason the STG44 is the worst is the following: Recoil is too high for a weapon with that kind of firerate, which makes you go for the right tree to accomodate. However the real issue is the recoil pattern in conjunction with high Hrec and spread to recoil conversion.
    The right spec tree shoehorns the 44 into a ranged role, that it can not really fill, since patterns and spread to recoil are still a thing, while also missing out on the real AR niche, which is close to medium range combat as you are then missing lightened stock, slings and swivels as well as enhanced grips.
    The Ribeyrolles however gets them all, and does not need barrel bedding, as it has a bipod, which makes it better at hipfire ranges, much better at medium to long and is only marginally worse in close to medium ranges.
    The 1-5, the other direct competitor outclasses it with 2-3 close range specs, lightened stock or reduced recoil, making it much, much better in ranges of 0-25m and only marginally worse beyond that. At the ranges where the STG gets better the encounters get less frequent.
    The 1907 is a better 1-5, with a lower mag capacity to balance, and the Breda is a poor man's M1A1 with a medium to long range advantage, that also comes with a unique burst fire mode and a 4HK to 50m.
    The SARs are either real skillcannons, like the AG42 (2 headshot kill at all ranges) and M1 (One headshot, one bodyshot kill at all ranges), or great ease-of-use weapons with different niches. Like the 1-5 having 31 rounds and a clear hipfire niche, while not losing much range. Or the MAS that requires higher accuracy, through low mag cap, yet also offers less recoil, or the M1A1 requiring a good trigger finger.
    The Turner sticks out, since it has enhanced grips, 20 rounds with interruptable reload (enough to kill three guys up close), good damage over all ranges (3-5) and a ROF that is high, yet clickable for most players. The Turner offers simply the best overall package, for the average user, with no sizeable downsides apart from being semi-auto.

  • 19Romulus84
    27 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    How to play on maps, how now is a medic with his paper weapon and 8 bullets to kill to kill a support soldier or a stormtrooper from afar? After all, it will end up that the better ones with better eyesight will take a stronger weapon and play at a greater distance or that's what DICE was about. This game is spoiled by fraudsters and a total lack of balance and only this and not any BTK or TTK that are very well balanced now. I can't kill SOUMI at 50 meters now or DICE, so that nobody plays medical weapons. These changes are just ridiculous and those people have no idea how they will break the game with it.
  • YourLocalPlumber
    3121 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    (Quote)
    The STG44 is the WORST weapon in the whole Assault kit. Is it overused? Yes. The Turner is the BEST weapon in the Assault Kit. Is it used at all? Barely. Why is that? Because the STG44 is iconic.The only relevant weapons in the recon kit are the SLRs and the P08. Not used. What is used?

    Hmm maybe. STG is my most used because it's a classic assault rifle and I always gravitate towards assault rifles. I disagree on the worst assault weapon part, what do you have that on? It's super versatile and easy to use.

    Turner is my least used because while it has very similar stats to a Gewehr 1-5 but I find it harder to control, not sure why because according to Symthic they have similar stats. Also, the reload time is worse. I think most would go for ease of use rather than 1 less bullet at range that the Turner offers.
    StG is definitely overused and somewhat below average. Its overused because every skilled player will gravitate to either most extreme or most versatile weapons in the game. 

    In BF5 StG-44 is the most versatile weapon. Its viable in all ranges, but doesn't excel in any of them. Close range 1907SF or StG 1-5 will outperform you, at long range SLRs or Ribeyrolles will outperform you. The only way you can make it work at all ranges is by being smarter than others.

    If you take weapons from extreme end of weapon spectrum e.g Ribeyrolles or G43, you by default will murder most players only by staying at longe range. Same goes for Shotguns, fast ROF SMGs for close range. With SMG on Devastation you will automatically have an advantage over most Assault players simply because you have better weapon for that map.

    What Dice doesn't understand is that by forcing guns into certain ranges even more won't fix anything. Players will always find weapons that are viable at most ranges, master them and dominate every game.
  • GrizzGolf
    1075 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    How to play on maps, how now is a medic with his paper weapon and 8 bullets to kill to kill a support soldier or a stormtrooper from afar? After all, it will end up that the better ones with better eyesight will take a stronger weapon and play at a greater distance or that's what DICE was about. This game is spoiled by fraudsters and a total lack of balance and only this and not any BTK or TTK that are very well balanced now. I can't kill SOUMI at 50 meters now or DICE, so that nobody plays medical weapons. These changes are just ridiculous and those people have no idea how they will break the game with it.
    Medics need to be able to kill faster than that
  • Kurywusaki
    12 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Dice is catering to the children that play this game.  
      
    Making characters more visible with that horrible out of context shading is just disgusting.  
    The red diamond boxes that appear over enemies when they have a bead on you is disgusting.  
      
    And now you people want THEM EVEN MORE VISIBLE?

    Why don't we just remove all of the grass and foliage along with all the little rocks people can hide behind?  
      
    Or even better, mount an effing floodlight on each player's head so everyone knows where he is all of the time. 
      
    All this thread does is solidify Battlefield's main issue: the community.
  • spartanx169x
    764 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    (Quote)
    The STG44 is the WORST weapon in the whole Assault kit. Is it overused? Yes. The Turner is the BEST weapon in the Assault Kit. Is it used at all? Barely. Why is that? Because the STG44 is iconic.The only relevant weapons in the recon kit are the SLRs and the P08. Not used. What is used?

    Hmm maybe. STG is my most used because it's a classic assault rifle and I always gravitate towards assault rifles. I disagree on the worst assault weapon part, what do you have that on? It's super versatile and easy to use.

    Turner is my least used because while it has very similar stats to a Gewehr 1-5 but I find it harder to control, not sure why because according to Symthic they have similar stats. Also, the reload time is worse. I think most would go for ease of use rather than 1 less bullet at range that the Turner offers.
    StG is definitely overused and somewhat below average. Its overused because every skilled player will gravitate to either most extreme or most versatile weapons in the game. 

    In BF5 StG-44 is the most versatile weapon. Its viable in all ranges, but doesn't excel in any of them. Close range 1907SF or StG 1-5 will outperform you, at long range SLRs or Ribeyrolles will outperform you. The only way you can make it work at all ranges is by being smarter than others.

    If you take weapons from extreme end of weapon spectrum e.g Ribeyrolles or G43, you by default will murder most players only by staying at longe range. Same goes for Shotguns, fast ROF SMGs for close range. With SMG on Devastation you will automatically have an advantage over most Assault players simply because you have better weapon for that map.

    What Dice doesn't understand is that by forcing guns into certain ranges even more won't fix anything. Players will always find weapons that are viable at most ranges, master them and dominate every game.
    I respectfully disagree about your second to last line. Forcing/limiting guns  to certain ranges works great in BF1. there are guns that shred at point blank but are useless at mid range. same for mid range guns and long range guns.  In my experience in 400 plus hrs of playing there is no single gun  that dominates the game.  Further more the maps largely dictate which guns are best.  It appears to me this new update is a step in that direction. It also remains to be seen what type of  actual impact its going to have.

    I have been in these forums enough to know people are drama queens over the slightest changes in  when it impacts their play style totally exaggerating  what the true impact the change has done.  90% of people on this forum constantly lobby for things for their own benefit with total disregard for the entire playerbase, this is also true for literally all the youtubers and streamers, hence why they should be ignored.  DICE has the data. They know how the game is being played and how many are playing and how many have quit after X hrs of play.  The data is objective. Reddit and this forum are mostly not. 

    Sidenote. Feedback should be done by in game polls  done monthly so the ENTIRE playerbase can have a voice, not just a few thousand (or less) on the forum and Reddit. 
  • YourLocalPlumber
    3121 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    (Quote)
    The STG44 is the WORST weapon in the whole Assault kit. Is it overused? Yes. The Turner is the BEST weapon in the Assault Kit. Is it used at all? Barely. Why is that? Because the STG44 is iconic.The only relevant weapons in the recon kit are the SLRs and the P08. Not used. What is used?

    Hmm maybe. STG is my most used because it's a classic assault rifle and I always gravitate towards assault rifles. I disagree on the worst assault weapon part, what do you have that on? It's super versatile and easy to use.

    Turner is my least used because while it has very similar stats to a Gewehr 1-5 but I find it harder to control, not sure why because according to Symthic they have similar stats. Also, the reload time is worse. I think most would go for ease of use rather than 1 less bullet at range that the Turner offers.
    StG is definitely overused and somewhat below average. Its overused because every skilled player will gravitate to either most extreme or most versatile weapons in the game. 

    In BF5 StG-44 is the most versatile weapon. Its viable in all ranges, but doesn't excel in any of them. Close range 1907SF or StG 1-5 will outperform you, at long range SLRs or Ribeyrolles will outperform you. The only way you can make it work at all ranges is by being smarter than others.

    If you take weapons from extreme end of weapon spectrum e.g Ribeyrolles or G43, you by default will murder most players only by staying at longe range. Same goes for Shotguns, fast ROF SMGs for close range. With SMG on Devastation you will automatically have an advantage over most Assault players simply because you have better weapon for that map.

    What Dice doesn't understand is that by forcing guns into certain ranges even more won't fix anything. Players will always find weapons that are viable at most ranges, master them and dominate every game.
    I respectfully disagree about your second to last line. Forcing/limiting guns  to certain ranges works great in BF1. there are guns that shred at point blank but are useless at mid range. same for mid range guns and long range guns.  In my experience in 400 plus hrs of playing there is no single gun  that dominates the game.  Further more the maps largely dictate which guns are best.  It appears to me this new update is a step in that direction. It also remains to be seen what type of  actual impact its going to have.

    I have been in these forums enough to know people are drama queens over the slightest changes in  when it impacts their play style totally exaggerating  what the true impact the change has done.  90% of people on this forum constantly lobby for things for their own benefit with total disregard for the entire playerbase, this is also true for literally all the youtubers and streamers, hence why they should be ignored.  DICE has the data. They know how the game is being played and how many are playing and how many have quit after X hrs of play.  The data is objective. Reddit and this forum are mostly not. 

    Sidenote. Feedback should be done by in game polls  done monthly so the ENTIRE playerbase can have a voice, not just a few thousand (or less) on the forum and Reddit. 
    There are plenty of weapons in BF5 that are viable at most ranges. Ribeyrolles,Hellriegel, BAR, Fedorov, Madsen and even ChauChat if you've got the aim. Hellriegel was bane of everyone's existence in BF1 for a long while until Dice finally managed to nerf it.

    The only thing that stopped most SMGs and fast ROF SLRs being too good at long ranges is random bullet deviation. A mechanic that got A LOT of fire from the community because spread on some of the weapons was hilariously stupid. This is why in BF5 people are not crying about laser weapons. Its because Dice made weapons accurate, but forgot to add recoil.
  • 19Romulus84
    27 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I'm writing for the last time. Hopeless, absurd changes. I know that I will turn on the game just to check and I will be so pissed off, I will swear so badly and I will be so devastated that I am afraid of this before Christmas we will get this "gift" as a spite ... Then I will start playing CoDa seriously and leave this ruined game forever. In my humble opinion, I know that they probably protect themselves in this way in a hundred ways, but they should not be able to change the characteristics of the product so dramatically because it will no longer be the same game for which I paid and bought. They change the heart, the salt of this game. It is as if you bought a Ferrari with a five-liter engine with five hundred horsepower and after a year you distributor / dealer / seller comes home and tells you that now you will be a nice three and a half liter engine and four hundred horsepower. These are such changes would you agree to such a thing or chase him where the pepper grows? Exactly?
  • VincentNZ
    3499 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    (Quote)
    The STG44 is the WORST weapon in the whole Assault kit. Is it overused? Yes. The Turner is the BEST weapon in the Assault Kit. Is it used at all? Barely. Why is that? Because the STG44 is iconic.The only relevant weapons in the recon kit are the SLRs and the P08. Not used. What is used?

    Hmm maybe. STG is my most used because it's a classic assault rifle and I always gravitate towards assault rifles. I disagree on the worst assault weapon part, what do you have that on? It's super versatile and easy to use.

    Turner is my least used because while it has very similar stats to a Gewehr 1-5 but I find it harder to control, not sure why because according to Symthic they have similar stats. Also, the reload time is worse. I think most would go for ease of use rather than 1 less bullet at range that the Turner offers.
    StG is definitely overused and somewhat below average. Its overused because every skilled player will gravitate to either most extreme or most versatile weapons in the game. 

    In BF5 StG-44 is the most versatile weapon. Its viable in all ranges, but doesn't excel in any of them. Close range 1907SF or StG 1-5 will outperform you, at long range SLRs or Ribeyrolles will outperform you. The only way you can make it work at all ranges is by being smarter than others.

    If you take weapons from extreme end of weapon spectrum e.g Ribeyrolles or G43, you by default will murder most players only by staying at longe range. Same goes for Shotguns, fast ROF SMGs for close range. With SMG on Devastation you will automatically have an advantage over most Assault players simply because you have better weapon for that map.

    What Dice doesn't understand is that by forcing guns into certain ranges even more won't fix anything. Players will always find weapons that are viable at most ranges, master them and dominate every game.
    I respectfully disagree about your second to last line. Forcing/limiting guns  to certain ranges works great in BF1. there are guns that shred at point blank but are useless at mid range. same for mid range guns and long range guns.  In my experience in 400 plus hrs of playing there is no single gun  that dominates the game.  Further more the maps largely dictate which guns are best.  It appears to me this new update is a step in that direction. It also remains to be seen what type of  actual impact its going to have.

    I have been in these forums enough to know people are drama queens over the slightest changes in  when it impacts their play style totally exaggerating  what the true impact the change has done.  90% of people on this forum constantly lobby for things for their own benefit with total disregard for the entire playerbase, this is also true for literally all the youtubers and streamers, hence why they should be ignored.  DICE has the data. They know how the game is being played and how many are playing and how many have quit after X hrs of play.  The data is objective. Reddit and this forum are mostly not. 

    Sidenote. Feedback should be done by in game polls  done monthly so the ENTIRE playerbase can have a voice, not just a few thousand (or less) on the forum and Reddit. 
    Just from a vacuum POV the balance and gunplay of BF1 works great. However it all goes to crap, as reality kicks in. If you make whole weapon classes that are tied to a certain niche, yet implement map design that does not allow to make use of that niche all the time, than you will constantly run into unwinnable engagements or confine players of said type to a single area. Also DICE seems to assume that each player is and should think carefully with every spawn what kind of encounter he will have and will want to have, yet they totally forget about the sandbox and chaotic game this franchise is and that the game is played with 64 players with a huge array of skillsets, motivations, goals and favourites.
    Ask yourself, do you always chose the class and weapon that is best for you and your team? Or do you always analyze the flow of the game before your spawn and adjust your game accordingly? No, of course not, just like everyone else you follow your own path of enjoyment.
    Apart from the fact that switching loadouts, specs, weapons etc. on a regular basis is a horribly time-wasting activity with this game's UI/UX, nobody can even make an educated guess of what is really needed where at any given time. Say you spawn on the contested C flag of Twisted Steel. This is CQ territory, so you choose medic, just to find a tank there. Obviously an awful choice. Say you meet two enemies, now you have a slight advantage as health attrition does not apply to you. You clear the flag. The next flag is F 200m away with engagement distances not suited for your SMG. What do you do? Stay at C? Redeploy with a better loadout? Or move on with a poor weapon choice. What about players that play weapons for Roleplay or immersion reasons? Or that follow a certain goal (mastery dogtags like myself, or want to shoot the new DLC weapons). And these issues are all way more pronounced with 5.2 than they are now.
    By the way: The designed range for the STG44 is, according to DICE 5.2, 10-30m. For perspective, 30m is about the length of the barn on Arras A. According to this, an SMG range likely is 0-20 (point blank is not a range though), so basically only hipfire range, or length of the balcony in C destruction. Since you have no spread to recoil on LMGs and they often do not have hipfire specs, we can deducte that the intended range is 20-40m, which is the whole length of the barn just to the bridge, by the way, we still have not left the average diameter of a flag, which usually lies between 50-100m even on most maps.
  • JamieCurnock
    634 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    (Quote) 

    Sidenote. Feedback should be done by in game polls  done monthly so the ENTIRE playerbase can have a voice, not just a few thousand (or less) on the forum and Reddit. 

    100% this is what should be happening. Running polls on Reddit only nets the opinions of those who use Reddit. Why not put this in the game itself so everyone gets a fair say.

    At least you potentially get results from all players not just those kicking off on Reddit, this forum, Twitter etc.
  • spartanx169x
    764 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    VincentNZ said:
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    (Quote)
    The STG44 is the WORST weapon in the whole Assault kit. Is it overused? Yes. The Turner is the BEST weapon in the Assault Kit. Is it used at all? Barely. Why is that? Because the STG44 is iconic.The only relevant weapons in the recon kit are the SLRs and the P08. Not used. What is used?

    Hmm maybe. STG is my most used because it's a classic assault rifle and I always gravitate towards assault rifles. I disagree on the worst assault weapon part, what do you have that on? It's super versatile and easy to use.

    Turner is my least used because while it has very similar stats to a Gewehr 1-5 but I find it harder to control, not sure why because according to Symthic they have similar stats. Also, the reload time is worse. I think most would go for ease of use rather than 1 less bullet at range that the Turner offers.
    StG is definitely overused and somewhat below average. Its overused because every skilled player will gravitate to either most extreme or most versatile weapons in the game. 

    In BF5 StG-44 is the most versatile weapon. Its viable in all ranges, but doesn't excel in any of them. Close range 1907SF or StG 1-5 will outperform you, at long range SLRs or Ribeyrolles will outperform you. The only way you can make it work at all ranges is by being smarter than others.

    If you take weapons from extreme end of weapon spectrum e.g Ribeyrolles or G43, you by default will murder most players only by staying at longe range. Same goes for Shotguns, fast ROF SMGs for close range. With SMG on Devastation you will automatically have an advantage over most Assault players simply because you have better weapon for that map.

    What Dice doesn't understand is that by forcing guns into certain ranges even more won't fix anything. Players will always find weapons that are viable at most ranges, master them and dominate every game.
    I respectfully disagree about your second to last line. Forcing/limiting guns  to certain ranges works great in BF1. there are guns that shred at point blank but are useless at mid range. same for mid range guns and long range guns.  In my experience in 400 plus hrs of playing there is no single gun  that dominates the game.  Further more the maps largely dictate which guns are best.  It appears to me this new update is a step in that direction. It also remains to be seen what type of  actual impact its going to have.

    I have been in these forums enough to know people are drama queens over the slightest changes in  when it impacts their play style totally exaggerating  what the true impact the change has done.  90% of people on this forum constantly lobby for things for their own benefit with total disregard for the entire playerbase, this is also true for literally all the youtubers and streamers, hence why they should be ignored.  DICE has the data. They know how the game is being played and how many are playing and how many have quit after X hrs of play.  The data is objective. Reddit and this forum are mostly not. 

    Sidenote. Feedback should be done by in game polls  done monthly so the ENTIRE playerbase can have a voice, not just a few thousand (or less) on the forum and Reddit. 
    Just from a vacuum POV the balance and gunplay of BF1 works great. However it all goes to crap, as reality kicks in. If you make whole weapon classes that are tied to a certain niche, yet implement map design that does not allow to make use of that niche all the time, than you will constantly run into unwinnable engagements or confine players of said type to a single area. Also DICE seems to assume that each player is and should think carefully with every spawn what kind of encounter he will have and will want to have, yet they totally forget about the sandbox and chaotic game this franchise is and that the game is played with 64 players with a huge array of skillsets, motivations, goals and favourites.
    Ask yourself, do you always chose the class and weapon that is best for you and your team? Or do you always analyze the flow of the game before your spawn and adjust your game accordingly? No, of course not, just like everyone else you follow your own path of enjoyment.
    Apart from the fact that switching loadouts, specs, weapons etc. on a regular basis is a horribly time-wasting activity with this game's UI/UX, nobody can even make an educated guess of what is really needed where at any given time. Say you spawn on the contested C flag of Twisted Steel. This is CQ territory, so you choose medic, just to find a tank there. Obviously an awful choice. Say you meet two enemies, now you have a slight advantage as health attrition does not apply to you. You clear the flag. The next flag is F 200m away with engagement distances not suited for your SMG. What do you do? Stay at C? Redeploy with a better loadout? Or move on with a poor weapon choice. What about players that play weapons for Roleplay or immersion reasons? Or that follow a certain goal (mastery dogtags like myself, or want to shoot the new DLC weapons). And these issues are all way more pronounced with 5.2 than they are now.
    By the way: The designed range for the STG44 is, according to DICE 5.2, 10-30m. For perspective, 30m is about the length of the barn on Arras A. According to this, an SMG range likely is 0-20 (point blank is not a range though), so basically only hipfire range, or length of the balcony in C destruction. Since you have no spread to recoil on LMGs and they often do not have hipfire specs, we can deducte that the intended range is 20-40m, which is the whole length of the barn just to the bridge, by the way, we still have not left the average diameter of a flag, which usually lies between 50-100m even on most maps.
    Actually this is exactly what I do- ", do you always chose the class and weapon that is best for you and your team? Or do you always analyze the flow of the game before your spawn and adjust your game accordingly?"  95% of the time  I consider both the skills of my squad, the map and what flow I expect. After each death I re-evaluate  and change as needed. Does the average player do that? Admittedly I highly doubt it. 

    YourLocalPlumber  As for Bf1 weapons, I can't speak to the madisen, I think I tried it a couple of times and could not use it at all. The   Ribeyrolles I find while its a good weapon for general use. It loses to the shotgun, the automatico, and the hellriegel at  point blank out the maybe 15 to 20 meters.  the fedorov is garbage at close range and will lose every time to the same shotguns, automaticos and heilriegels. The Bar wasa great weapon until TTK 2.0, Then at least for me I found it unusable when other guns are simply better.   The hellriegel also loses  pointblank to short range 10 meters maybe? to the automatico and shotgun with a competent player, both of the latter being terrible beyond 15 meters.  I will say this is my experience on both PS4 and XB1. PC may be totally different. 
  • BeastofBourbon84
    372 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited December 3
    100**** bestorov optical reporting in.
    Gimme dat for medic and we're back in business.

    Edit service stars abbriviation not allowed on bf forums lol
  • VVaxDaddy
    135 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    (Quote)
    Just from a vacuum POV the balance and gunplay of BF1 works great. However it all goes to crap, as reality kicks in. If you make whole weapon classes that are tied to a certain niche, yet implement map design that does not allow to make use of that niche all the time, than you will constantly run into unwinnable engagements or confine players of said type to a single area.

    I don't think there's a single map in bf1 where I feel I can't play a class. Conversely this happens quite frequently in bfv where I have to stop playing smgs or be combat ineffective.

    Balance in bf1 is quite good, and if they'd implement a system closer to that only with the better headshot reward in this game I think the maps would be far less stagnant.
  • ashar_saleem121
    1243 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    (Quote)
    If you think BFV is a "Twitch shooter" then you have not played the latest COD Modern Warfare, clearly, you have no idea what you are talking about. Typical newbie player.

    When you claim players just use the STG and win, is a nonsense and absurd statement. Please go play BF1 as clearly you are not cut out to play BFV. 

    Funny your stats don't appear under your name so we have no idea if you are a good player or not, just your word. LOL, not found on Origin either.  Being a good player is subjective. I find players that support their squad with revives and proper orders and supply ammo and stick together as a squad  "good players" Not necessarily KDR 

    https://battlefieldtracker.com/bfv/profile/origin/PvtJohnTowle/overview

    Lol. Newbie. Try over 1300 hours in BF1. Only a modest 150 or so in BFV but thats because I stopped playing in January.

    https://battlefieldtracker.com/bfv/profile/psn/Ashar121/overview

    And here are my BF1 stats for comparison

    https://battlefieldtracker.com/bf1/profile/psn/Ashar121

    As you can see (maybe) that my stats on BFV are actually better than what they were on BF1 so your point is moot.

    I clearly state that my PSN ID is Ashar121. What can I tell you if either you don't know how websites work or can't read.

    I didn't realize BFV was part of the CoD franchise? My mistake, I thought we were comparing battlefields with each other.

    Do you even know what a skill cannon is? As currently constituted the Commando Carbine is a skill cannon. Playing aggressive on console with a bolt action rifle would be a skill cannon. Right now neither of those are a viable option because everything else kills you too quickly from too far away. There are no tradeoffs to using automatic weapons when you have no RBD.

    While you're looking at my stats on BF1, why don't you go ahead and check out my most used weapons list. You'll see the 8.35 Marksman as my most used with over 75 stars. You'll see the Selbstlader 1906 Sniper variant (Not the 26 tound 1916) as number 4. When I play, I actually want to handicap myself to make it interesting. I use the RSC SMG Optical when other people are using the SMG08. How is that for a newbie champ?

    You'll see that I have 10 stars or more with over 35 primary guns. You'll see a win percentage of 70%

    How is that for Newbie? Next time you try and insult someone, how about you do your research first?

    I'm not even going to mention your stats because that would be against forum rules.

    With all that being said. BFV boils down to whoever shoots first wins or whoever has the fastest firerate wins. There is no room for outmaneuvering someone. Once that first shot hits you, youre dead before you can even react.

    If someone says "flank", well going around the edges of the map and shooting people in the back, is not skillful. Win a 1v1 gun fight and then tell me how many skill cannons there are in BFV and how viable they are.
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