[Megathread] BFV and Cheating Discussion

Comments

  • Rattoner
    330 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    MODS. I have a reply in this thread that is within the community guidelines, but for some reason just about every post I make has to be "authorized". Why is my voice less important than others who speak here?!??!
  • TyroneLoyd_TV
    1724 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Rattoner wrote: »
    MODS. I have a reply in this thread that is within the community guidelines, but for some reason just about every post I make has to be "authorized". Why is my voice less important than others who speak here?!??!

    Its a spam filter. It happens to everyone periodically even myself. It does it randomly but most of the time it throws it in there if you edited a comment too many times.
  • Rattoner
    330 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 20
    Rattoner said:
    Rattoner wrote: »
    (Quote)


    As far as my videos. You would be incorrect, you simply do not know what to look for. Heck your own stats are very....lets say up for debate. 

    Interesting hot take hopefully those 10 -15 tick spectate videos help track micro adjustments, client smoke and labored twitching. Oh wait lets not mention the sheer amount of garbage interpolation from server to client.

    Oh and you dont want to go there on stats. I stream every single game I play on bf. If you want to see how completely inaccurate spectator mode is you could use me or any other streamer like daz /stodeh as an example. All past broadcast are available.

    Just find the server name and spectate
    Streaming means ZERO...let me say that again. ZERO. The hacks are built in to ensure that they are not captured while streaming. Everyone knows this, so that argument is tired and old...its almost as if you are standing up for the cheaters.

    As far as "how inaccurate spectator mode is" is yet ANOTHER argument from cheaters. I watched Taveraco the other night on stream for an hour, I also recorded him for an hour. Twitch and Spectator were synced within .25 of a second. They were indistinguishable. Spectator is a LOT more accurate than you think it is. When it syncs perfectly with twitch you have to change your argument. 
    I don't think you're understanding what i'm telling you. That's fine i wont go any further as i can see its out of your scope.
    If i were really defending cheating i highly doubt i would be complaining in this thread about spin botting in the several responses i made early and late in this thread. Side tracking the cheating conversation with tin foil "theories" isn't helping (not that DICE/EA will elaborate on there process) I've seen plenty of companies take the silent route. This is nothing new in my 23 years of fps experience. If companies were really making cheats for there games that would be gaming news of the decade. Extremely unlikely. 
    I have spelled everything out in white and black so its quite conclusive that my comprehension of your opinion is fully understood. The fact that you have no rebuttal except to tell me that "its out of my scope" is indicative that you have no argument, and you don't. 

    In regards to spectator and twitch looking the same, its a simple fact. Spectator is an excellent tool to determine if someone is cheating. It's not all inclusive but its a pretty good start. Cheats have their overlays disabled when people stream so just because someone is streaming does not mean they are not cheating. HUGE fallacy by the community thinking that all streamers are legit some are not and many have been caught cheating live. I have reported some and Twitch found them cheating and banned those accounts. 

    No one is side tracking the cheating conversation, people simply want answers. We paid good money for this game in good faith that DICE would deliver a product up to the standards set by the industry. So far DICE  has not delivered and a HUGE part of that is cheating. Its quite more prevalent then you comprehend. I understand its not your area of expertise and that is why I inform you.

    back to my question that no one has answered yet. Why is DICE silent on the matter of anti-cheats? Why over the course of a year have they not been pursuing an anti-cheat system that works? Other games do it, DICE used to do it. It's not like its new to them. So, why do you think DICE has gone silent and done nothing about cheaters?
  • Rattoner
    330 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Rattoner said:
    Rattoner wrote: »
    (Quote)


    As far as my videos. You would be incorrect, you simply do not know what to look for. Heck your own stats are very....lets say up for debate. 

    Interesting hot take hopefully those 10 -15 tick spectate videos help track micro adjustments, client smoke and labored twitching. Oh wait lets not mention the sheer amount of garbage interpolation from server to client.

    Oh and you dont want to go there on stats. I stream every single game I play on bf. If you want to see how completely inaccurate spectator mode is you could use me or any other streamer like daz /stodeh as an example. All past broadcast are available.

    Just find the server name and spectate
    Streaming means ZERO...let me say that again. ZERO. The hacks are built in to ensure that they are not captured while streaming. Everyone knows this, so that argument is tired and old...its almost as if you are standing up for the cheaters.

    As far as "how inaccurate spectator mode is" is yet ANOTHER argument from cheaters. I watched Taveraco the other night on stream for an hour, I also recorded him for an hour. Twitch and Spectator were synced within .25 of a second. They were indistinguishable. Spectator is a LOT more accurate than you think it is. When it syncs perfectly with twitch you have to change your argument. 

    You can't use that as an argument.

    You can enable a stream delay and if you set the delay just right,  you can make the spectator delay and twitch be in sync as if it was almost realtime.

    So nope,  he isn't standing up for cheaters.
    You missed the point. The point being what you see in a stream is exactly what you see in spectator (sans the spectator overlay/UI). They argue that spectator is not effective at observing cheaters, I assert that it is if you know what to look for (and I do). 
  • Rattoner
    330 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 20
    delete please
  • TyroneLoyd_TV
    1724 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    @Rattoner

    You missed the point entirely in that response.
    You cannot see micro adjustment in aim in spectator mode. The server sided tick rate (10) in spectator mode cannot handle fast movements which is why you see an unnaturally slow jerking motion during aim. This is interpolation. During spectator you only see what the server sees which means any dropped packets or slow/ delayed packets will be interpolated by your client(if i remember correctly)
    Looking at a stream and spectate in real time (ive done this too many times already) you can see stark differences in fluidity and oddities within aiming and movement.


    Secondly during spectator mode you will have instances where the server (spec) will clearly show smoke is fully on your screen but on the players client there may not be anything there or have already dissipated. You have to keep an eye on things such as that when you call someone out for shooting you through smoke which is why I stated someone streaming is good evidence of there1 to 1 view. I never stated anything about overlays so I'm not sure what your getting at there as I'm specifically speaking towards the client itself.

    -unfortunately I dont have the clip available that shows this from one of these threads- if anyone can find it let me know.

    Thirdly the experience note is strictly a online multiplayer reference. Ive been though countless free to play , AAA , etc fps games and have seen companies completely drop support for games. This was no where near a brag only a reference to what I have experienced which some can be very responsive and others giving the silent treatment. None never stopped banning cheaters but you could tell from an industry standpoint it can wear on a community and its devs.


    So yes I do feel like you completely misunderstood what I stated.

  • Rattoner
    330 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    And yet another wait (no edits) for my post to be approved....SMFH
  • MachoFantast1c0
    2067 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    @TyroneLoyd_TV just let it be, you can't reach him as he has already made up his mind and doesn't want to be educated. His level of play is so low he can't possibly fathom how others can be orders of magnitude better.
  • CarnifeXRadikal
    32 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I was surfin on some of these Sites the last days,
    to have something like an Insight whats possible for them and whats not..
    well, and its way more possible with these cheats, what i couldnt imagine before

    fairfight seems to not working because they advise their so called "customers" to flight under the radar
    plus they seem to block fairfights screenshot service
    so at this point its the rage-cheaters and their "long cheater life"
    which seems not bannable just because of the fairfight block

    so if we assume a lil bit, the advise of the cheats-sellers not to rage-cheat is because
    it could be that fairfight is once updated and the block couldnt work
    means they would get a ban - and this doesnt seem to happen for now. (maybe because dice doesnt know how the block is working, but dunno)
    -
    sidenote: one site even claim this:
    "Our coder worked on Battlefield games for a while and has an extreme amount of knowledge of the security that needs to be implemented to get our Battlefield 5 Cheat working, not only functional but also safer."

    all cheat sites i was visiting currently offer these cheats as undetected, only one site's aimbot was currently deactivated!
  • Rattoner
    330 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    @TyroneLoyd_TV just let it be, you can't reach him as he has already made up his mind and doesn't want to be educated. His level of play is so low he can't possibly fathom how others can be orders of magnitude better.
    Actually I gave him my long, detailed position....The forum mods just refuse to post my on topic/forum compliant post. 
  • ElliotLH
    9354 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Rattoner wrote: »
    (Quote)
    Actually I gave him my long, detailed position....The forum mods just refuse to post my on topic/forum compliant post. 

    It's a bug with the forum where your post incorrectly ends up in the spam filter (it can happen to anyone). If you @ one of the mods they can retrieve it for you.
  • Rattoner
    330 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Rattoner wrote: »
    (Quote)


    As far as my videos. You would be incorrect, you simply do not know what to look for. Heck your own stats are very....lets say up for debate. 

    Interesting hot take hopefully those 10 -15 tick spectate videos help track micro adjustments, client smoke and labored twitching. Oh wait lets not mention the sheer amount of garbage interpolation from server to client.

    Oh and you dont want to go there on stats. I stream every single game I play on bf. If you want to see how completely inaccurate spectator mode is you could use me or any other streamer like daz /stodeh as an example. All past broadcast are available.

    Just find the server name and spectate

    Spectator mode is a complete waste of time. It will only reveal the most obvious of cheats, which ironically, are obvious without spectating. Whatever you see going on with a players crosshairs while spectating, is not what is happening in real time. Once you start recording your own game play it becomes clear.
    Actually its very good for determining wall hacks. You can enable player outlines in spectator mode. When you see a player constantly and consistently "hunt" the enemy players, and always flank them...its because they are using wall hacks. When you can almost predict or accurately predict their movement, its because they see the player on the other side of the wall/mountain/obstacle as well. I see it all too often.

    Spectator is an amazing tool for weeding out cheaters, if you know how to use it. 
  • Rattoner
    330 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Rattoner wrote: »
    (Quote)
    Streaming means ZERO...let me say that again. ZERO. The hacks are built in to ensure that they are not captured while streaming. Everyone knows this, so that argument is tired and old...its almost as if you are standing up for the cheaters.

    As far as "how inaccurate spectator mode is" is yet ANOTHER argument from cheaters. I watched Taveraco the other night on stream for an hour, I also recorded him for an hour. Twitch and Spectator were synced within .25 of a second. They were indistinguishable. Spectator is a LOT more accurate than you think it is. When it syncs perfectly with twitch you have to change your argument. 

    No it's not lmao
    You have to be blind. Theres no way you're this dense
    Dude. I watched his stream on one 27" monitor and the spectator on the other 27" monitor. They were synced perfectly. Just because you have not gone to the depths that I have to weed out cheaters does not mean that I have not. 

    FACT the stream and spectator were exact. If I can find a way to record both at the same time,  I will make an overlay video proving this. 
  • Rattoner
    330 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    @Rattoner

    You missed the point entirely in that response.
    You cannot see micro adjustment in aim in spectator mode. The server sided tick rate (10) in spectator mode cannot handle fast movements which is why you see an unnaturally slow jerking motion during aim. This is interpolation. During spectator you only see what the server sees which means any dropped packets or slow/ delayed packets will be interpolated by your client(if i remember correctly)
    Looking at a stream and spectate in real time (ive done this too many times already) you can see stark differences in fluidity and oddities within aiming and movement.


    Secondly during spectator mode you will have instances where the server (spec) will clearly show smoke is fully on your screen but on the players client there may not be anything there or have already dissipated. You have to keep an eye on things such as that when you call someone out for shooting you through smoke which is why I stated someone streaming is good evidence of there1 to 1 view. I never stated anything about overlays so I'm not sure what your getting at there as I'm specifically speaking towards the client itself.

    -unfortunately I dont have the clip available that shows this from one of these threads- if anyone can find it let me know.

    Thirdly the experience note is strictly a online multiplayer reference. Ive been though countless free to play , AAA , etc fps games and have seen companies completely drop support for games. This was no where near a brag only a reference to what I have experienced which some can be very responsive and others giving the silent treatment. None never stopped banning cheaters but you could tell from an industry standpoint it can wear on a community and its devs.


    So yes I do feel like you completely misunderstood what I stated.

    I did not miss anything. The thing is what YOU look for in a cheater and what I look for are different. I am not looking for how fast they kill (unless its an obvious head shot aim bot spree). I am not looking for recoil, heck I am not even looking for macros that they use. I am looking for patterns of engagement with the enemy player that always affords them the advantage. This is a clear indication of wall hacking, seeing the enemies position on the playfield. This is the most abused hack. 

    I have even baited cheaters and it works. You see I play the game to have fun, I dont care about stats, althoguh I do care about helping my squad unless they are all potatoes so for me to throw a match or lose or get killed means nothing to me. I can not tell you how many times I have gone off the beaten path, on the outskirts away from traffic, away from flares, away from objectives with my only goal seeing who comes around the corner with their gun aimed at my head with a head shot. My GF also does the same. We bait cheaters in matches and see who is doing it. When we see the same pattern enough times, I go into spectator and watch them for a few games. YES the amount of time I have spent doing this I should be getting paid for, because no one at dice is doing it. 

    I strip away anything that could be issues with net, or net code, or packet loss etc, I just look at players patterns. I have recorded and spectated many people who I determined were good players and not cheating, although that has never been the case when I am baiting them. I also watch twitch streams to see who is running with who and watch how they are acting as a squad, if they are calling anything out etc. I do a hell of a lot more than you know, so please afford me the respect that I am actually trying to help the game and DICE. I am sick of being treated like I AM THE PROBLEM by apologists like you and others on these forums when what I try to do only benefits all of us. 

    You can turn on player outlines in spectator, essentially a built in hack (remember when I said rogue game devs make hacks...they are built into the game) and you can see every player on the playfield. When you see someone always flanking the enemy, even though hte enemy is not spotted and the enemy is behind cover, sometimes even 300 yards away, you know that person is using a wall hack. 

    I understand how cheating wears on a community and the devs, but I also understand how businesses run (I own my own) and I can tell you as an absolute that the people in charge of the budget for BFV care more about hitting marks in excel then they do for the health of the game or the player base. If this means layoffs, smaller teams, lost features, change in direction all to make money, this is what thye will do. 

    The video game industry is the only legal industry in the world where the customer is not taken care of. The past 5 years of AAA failed titles should be proof enough of that. 
  • Rattoner
    330 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Udonsushi1 said:
    Dice and EA instead of adding more maps and others things they should join all their staff to create some stuff to avoid cheaters or to kick out cheaters or to dont allow any player with any kind of cheating software or hardware to join a server or a game, it is just impossible to find 1 server just 1 server without any of this cheaters that make game become boring, everyday more ppl stop playing this game that its awesome but cant be played coz all the hackers, cheaters with aimbots, with instant kill, with spotters , they know everytime where are you, they kill through the walls , they kill with 1 shot even with side arms  from far away, they know where you are, apart from the airplanes that they are all the time bombing and killing ridiculous amount of players , the  antiaircraft are impossible to use, you need to shoot the airplane with a lot of ammunition but the airplane drop 1 bomb only 1 time and you are done thats the reason why airplanes pilot laugh about ppl trying to kill them. i have been loyal since Battlefield 1, 2,3,4 all in play station and now 5 in Pc but this is impossible to play , sad thing is that some ppl like me save hard earn money to buy the right to play the game and after spending the money realized that is full of cheaters and hackers and the developers of the game  doesnt take the time to really do something  effective to avoid this problem. Vanning accounts of cheaters  is not the solution, coz they make a new account in seconds with different name and start cheating again , 
    Agreed. 

    The thing is, Outpost (as far as my collected data shows) had less cheaters in it than your average conquest map. The defensive nature of outpost (defending an tier 3 tower gave most points) does little for most people who cheat. People cheat for an advantage and "big number" score to express their e-peen (usually due to low self esteem irl). Outpost denied much of that to cheaters by its design. 

    The issue is that the run and gun COD style game play that has not been a hallmark of previous Battlefield games (but is in BFV) welcomes the cheating mindset/play style. 

    DICE could help to slow cheating or make it less desirable by returning to the roots of Battlefield. This of course will not get rid of all the cheaters, but it will make the game less appealing to many of them. 

    Coupled with a working anti-cheat, those would be the first steps into creating a really fun and fair game.
  • TyroneLoyd_TV
    1724 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 20
    Rattoner said:
    @Rattoner

    You missed the point entirely in that response.
    You cannot see micro adjustment in aim in spectator mode. The server sided tick rate (10) in spectator mode cannot handle fast movements which is why you see an unnaturally slow jerking motion during aim. This is interpolation. During spectator you only see what the server sees which means any dropped packets or slow/ delayed packets will be interpolated by your client(if i remember correctly)
    Looking at a stream and spectate in real time (ive done this too many times already) you can see stark differences in fluidity and oddities within aiming and movement.


    Secondly during spectator mode you will have instances where the server (spec) will clearly show smoke is fully on your screen but on the players client there may not be anything there or have already dissipated. You have to keep an eye on things such as that when you call someone out for shooting you through smoke which is why I stated someone streaming is good evidence of there1 to 1 view. I never stated anything about overlays so I'm not sure what your getting at there as I'm specifically speaking towards the client itself.

    -unfortunately I dont have the clip available that shows this from one of these threads- if anyone can find it let me know.

    Thirdly the experience note is strictly a online multiplayer reference. Ive been though countless free to play , AAA , etc fps games and have seen companies completely drop support for games. This was no where near a brag only a reference to what I have experienced which some can be very responsive and others giving the silent treatment. None never stopped banning cheaters but you could tell from an industry standpoint it can wear on a community and its devs.


    So yes I do feel like you completely misunderstood what I stated.

    "I did not miss anything. The thing is what YOU look for in a cheater and what I look for are different. I am not looking for how fast they kill (unless its an obvious head shot aim bot spree). I am not looking for recoil, heck I am not even looking for macros that they use. I am looking for patterns of engagement with the enemy player that always affords them the advantage. This is a clear indication of wall hacking, seeing the enemies position on the playfield. This is the most abused hack"


    You "assume" i only look for that which wouldn't make any sense whatsoever since you cant look for that in the current version of spectator. Also your videos are a contradiction of what you state. You are looking for both aimbotting and wall hacks its even in the titles of your video.

    I didn't read the rest because of the contradiction. If you're not willing to look at it as a whole(both sides) then that's your problem.
    There are a few videos that i see are inconclusive. You can figure out yourself oh great one.



    -edit read the rest. didn't help
  • DancesWthMice
    121 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 21
    Rattoner said:
    Rattoner wrote: »
    (Quote)


    As far as my videos. You would be incorrect, you simply do not know what to look for. Heck your own stats are very....lets say up for debate. 

    Interesting hot take hopefully those 10 -15 tick spectate videos help track micro adjustments, client smoke and labored twitching. Oh wait lets not mention the sheer amount of garbage interpolation from server to client.

    Oh and you dont want to go there on stats. I stream every single game I play on bf. If you want to see how completely inaccurate spectator mode is you could use me or any other streamer like daz /stodeh as an example. All past broadcast are available.

    Just find the server name and spectate

    Spectator mode is a complete waste of time. It will only reveal the most obvious of cheats, which ironically, are obvious without spectating. Whatever you see going on with a players crosshairs while spectating, is not what is happening in real time. Once you start recording your own game play it becomes clear.
    Actually its very good for determining wall hacks. You can enable player outlines in spectator mode. When you see a player constantly and consistently "hunt" the enemy players, and always flank them...its because they are using wall hacks. When you can almost predict or accurately predict their movement, its because they see the player on the other side of the wall/mountain/obstacle as well. I see it all too often.

    Spectator is an amazing tool for weeding out cheaters, if you know how to use it. 

    Rattoner said:
    Rattoner wrote: »
    (Quote)


    As far as my videos. You would be incorrect, you simply do not know what to look for. Heck your own stats are very....lets say up for debate. 

    Interesting hot take hopefully those 10 -15 tick spectate videos help track micro adjustments, client smoke and labored twitching. Oh wait lets not mention the sheer amount of garbage interpolation from server to client.

    Oh and you dont want to go there on stats. I stream every single game I play on bf. If you want to see how completely inaccurate spectator mode is you could use me or any other streamer like daz /stodeh as an example. All past broadcast are available.

    Just find the server name and spectate

    Spectator mode is a complete waste of time. It will only reveal the most obvious of cheats, which ironically, are obvious without spectating. Whatever you see going on with a players crosshairs while spectating, is not what is happening in real time. Once you start recording your own game play it becomes clear.
    Actually its very good for determining wall hacks. You can enable player outlines in spectator mode. When you see a player constantly and consistently "hunt" the enemy players, and always flank them...its because they are using wall hacks. When you can almost predict or accurately predict their movement, its because they see the player on the other side of the wall/mountain/obstacle as well. I see it all too often.

    Spectator is an amazing tool for weeding out cheaters, if you know how to use it. 
    I know all about the player outlines, however few use that mode. I'm referring to the complete inaccuracy in what is displayed with the cross hairs while spectating, and where the shots are actually landing in real time. Ever notice while spectating how so many of the shots are flying above the targets head, yet hit markers are going off? You have seen this, everyone has.

    The big problem with player outline mode is that it is very difficult to know when the enemy is naturally visible due to the fact that the player outlines are way too bright. I record while I'm spectating, but I absolutely hate how spectator mode has been implemented by Dice, and how it is used by the community. I have been called out by people spectating me), while I am simultaneously recording in high res at 60fps. I'll post a youtube hi-res video of this entire game, while the person accusing me claims in the chat window, to watch me blatantly cheat, while they are in spectate mode. He also claimed I was killing enemies I couldn't see, yet the ACTUAL hi-res footage I recorded of the entire game is crystal clear. My footage is clear as day, yet his view in spectator mode is wildly inaccurate.
    Post edited by ragnarok013 on
  • zerweast
    29 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Question. Why is cheating not a priority issue for Dice?
  • SirBobdk
    5232 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 21
    zerweast said:
    Question. Why is cheating not a priority issue for Dice?
    PC is only a small part of the player base and a working AC will make it significantly smaller.
    I don't remember cheating ever been as bad as it is now. I want to play BFV, but not like this.
This discussion has been closed.