The New Patch Destroyed Air Game play

Comments

  • Matty101yttam
    1353 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    My issue with planes/vehicles in the last 2 games was the splash damage. 
    Bf4 planes needed accuracy, direct bombs to tanks and fairly direct mg/cannon damage to infantry.
    Infantry rarely got bothered by planes because they just weren't worth the hassle, tanks and other air assets were better targets.

    With the splash damage that put infantry as the main target for everyone which leads to infantry feeling like they're being farmed by the whole server.
  • Scipi_Vincere
    17 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Celsi_GER said:
    SirBobdk wrote: »
    (Quote)
    I would guess that less than 1% of the player base on PC could go 60-2 before patch.
    The rest had no idea what they were doing.
    So this game is now balanced around that 1% leaving the rest without any chance of learing how to fly.

    If this were true, I was, for a period of 1,5 years, experiencing the strange statistical irregularity of having these 1%guys in 75% of the plane-supporting maps I have played.

    You and me, we met in several threads in this forums. Maybe you remember me writing that me and may clan mates actively avoided maps with planes in the past. Let me assure you, we did not give up on those maps because in 1 of 100 games there was one "invincible" pilot with xx:x score. No, we did this because on the large majority of those maps there were 1 or more of those invincible pilots.
    This does not compute with your 1% claim. We must be playing different games ;)
    I think the 1% is over exaggeration, any pilot within the top 5% can rain mayhem, hell the top 8% can do it. Considering this is a 64 player game, with 5% statistics, you are always bound to meet one.
  • AngrySquid270
    49 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Celsi_GER wrote: »
    SirBobdk wrote: »
    (Quote)
    I would guess that less than 1% of the player base on PC could go 60-2 before patch.
    The rest had no idea what they were doing.
    So this game is now balanced around that 1% leaving the rest without any chance of learing how to fly.

    If this were true, I was, for a period of 1,5 years, experiencing the strange statistical irregularity of having these 1%guys in 75% of the plane-supporting maps I have played.

    You and me, we met in several threads in this forums. Maybe you remember me writing that me and may clan mates actively avoided maps with planes in the past. Let me assure you, we did not give up on those maps because in 1 of 100 games there was one "invincible" pilot with xx:x score. No, we did this because on the large majority of those maps there were 1 or more of those invincible pilots.
    This does not compute with your 1% claim. We must be playing different games ;)

    With 64 potential pilots in each round I'd expect the probability of coming across a 1% pilot to happen every couple rounds or so.

    Though you're probably defining your pilot pool by the full time pilots, rather than just potential pilots.

  • SirBobdk
    5089 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited May 21
    Celsi_GER said:
    SirBobdk wrote: »
    (Quote)
    I would guess that less than 1% of the player base on PC could go 60-2 before patch.
    The rest had no idea what they were doing.
    So this game is now balanced around that 1% leaving the rest without any chance of learing how to fly.

    If this were true, I was, for a period of 1,5 years, experiencing the strange statistical irregularity of having these 1%guys in 75% of the plane-supporting maps I have played.

    You and me, we met in several threads in this forums. Maybe you remember me writing that me and may clan mates actively avoided maps with planes in the past. Let me assure you, we did not give up on those maps because in 1 of 100 games there was one "invincible" pilot with xx:x score. No, we did this because on the large majority of those maps there were 1 or more of those invincible pilots.
    This does not compute with your 1% claim. We must be playing different games ;)
    I think the 1% is over exaggeration, any pilot within the top 5% can rain mayhem, hell the top 8% can do it. Considering this is a 64 player game, with 5% statistics, you are always bound to meet one.
    I'm top 4% kpm with 0,97. In average I do 29 kills with planes in a 30 min game. 96% do worse. 
    On PC its the same 5-10 pro pilots going on high killstreaks and with the low player base you meet them often.
    You dont just meet some unknown comming out of no where player doing the same.
    I said 1% of the playerbase. 5%-8% of the pilot playerbase might be a good guess. But even if you look at the top pilots they dont do 50+  kills every game, far from and only on a very few maps like Iwo (BT) and fjell (CQ)
    Take all the maps in BFV and it comes down to 2-4 maps were pilots can to good. The rest dont have planes or you dont even notice the planes. 
    Maps where pilots are doing well is mainly due to poor map design
  • DavTan
    822 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    (Quote)
    The fact that you did not read my second paragraph is a testament that you are basing your reasons of emotion. Please re-read the second paragraph. I found the balance on the pacific theater is quite OK. In fact I found it enjoyable! I am not spreading false information, probably it is best for me to record my run and post them as proof. 

    To be clear I quickly scanned the rest of your post but lost interest because it was about your overall view of plane balance experience and I wasn't interested ... Nothing to do with my emotions.
    I merely contested your statements in your first paragraph as I have experience there.
    As for the other poster who said he has no problem with the fligal obstructing the view from the right . I never said I have a problem with it but it is a fact that it makes the shot slightly more difficult.... It cannot be otherwise if your target is behind the fligal.

    Anyway I've expressed my opinion, I'm off to play some bf and shoot some planes down. Take care.
  • SirBobdk
    5089 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Celsi_GER said:
    SirBobdk wrote: »
    (Quote)
    I would guess that less than 1% of the player base on PC could go 60-2 before patch.
    The rest had no idea what they were doing.
    So this game is now balanced around that 1% leaving the rest without any chance of learing how to fly.

     We must be playing different games ;)
    We don't play different games, but I think we play it differently. I've learned to play all classes and if I have a problem with a plane I'll take a plane.
    I don't have a problem of being bombed, its part of the game. As a pilot, I know where I should not be and always keep an eye on plans.
    But I also avoid Fjell (CQ), Iwo (BT) and some times storm (BT) if playing infantry. There's has always been farming maps for planes.
  • Terminator000001
    825 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    DavTan wrote: »
    (Quote)
    Because there was no other source of damage hitting me, at all. I was just dead without the ability to do anything. And that guy was the only one at the flag. 

    That's my point, you don't know that it was the only source of damage from information presented to you. It doesn't matter whether he was the only one on the flag although I also don't see how you could know that for sure either as the killcam doesn't pan around the whole area. The other damage could have come from anywhere and would only have needed to hit you at the same time with a tiny amount for the fligal to get the kill.
    The same goes for that bomber clip posted above as it goes out of sight before the kill is given. ( Edit did you confirm with the pilot he was full health.. if not then that's just an assumption)
    As I said in my previous post if it is a real issue then it must be either a very rare glitch or a hidden angle/ speed multiplier dice have not told us about.
    If you fly on Xbox look out for me 😉 ... see you on the bf.



    *Just don't listen to the guy who actually knows what he's talking about. He could be right.*


    And now for real:
    I think this should prove enough. I especially met up with a couple friends on a Community Game server (the only good use for those things) to show that I was right. That I was flying relatevely close to the Fliegerfaust is irrelevant at this point. I just wanted to be sure that the full barrage was hitting me and the Fliegerfaust player wasn't that good with aiming that.

    As you can see, Spitfire and Mosquito are dead meat when they got fully hit, bombers don't, which surprised me a bit. I recorded 3 attemps to be 100% sure.

    But considering those 20% extra damage from the sAA against fighter planes, which also effects the Fliegerfaust currently, I shouldn't. Because this is the amount of damage that the Fliegerfaust was able to do on any plane before 6.6.
    What's really interesting is, that the Mosquito was a OHK, too. That means after game logic, the Mosquito is considered a fighter plane. I didn't test that, but it wouldn't surprise me if the same results would be found on the Stuka.
  • AngrySquid270
    49 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    DavTan wrote: »
    (Quote)
    Because there was no other source of damage hitting me, at all. I was just dead without the ability to do anything. And that guy was the only one at the flag. 

    That's my point, you don't know that it was the only source of damage from information presented to you. It doesn't matter whether he was the only one on the flag although I also don't see how you could know that for sure either as the killcam doesn't pan around the whole area. The other damage could have come from anywhere and would only have needed to hit you at the same time with a tiny amount for the fligal to get the kill.
    The same goes for that bomber clip posted above as it goes out of sight before the kill is given. ( Edit did you confirm with the pilot he was full health.. if not then that's just an assumption)
    As I said in my previous post if it is a real issue then it must be either a very rare glitch or a hidden angle/ speed multiplier dice have not told us about.
    If you fly on Xbox look out for me 😉 ... see you on the bf.



    *Just don't listen to the guy who actually knows what he's talking about. He could be right.*


    And now for real:
    I think this should prove enough. I especially met up with a couple friends on a Community Game server (the only good use for those things) to show that I was right. That I was flying relatevely close to the Fliegerfaust is irrelevant at this point. I just wanted to be sure that the full barrage was hitting me and the Fliegerfaust player wasn't that good with aiming that.

    As you can see, Spitfire and Mosquito are dead meat when they got fully hit, bombers don't, which surprised me a bit. I recorded 3 attemps to be 100% sure.

    But considering those 20% extra damage from the sAA against fighter planes, which also effects the Fliegerfaust currently, I shouldn't. Because this is the amount of damage that the Fliegerfaust was able to do on any plane before 6.6.
    What's really interesting is, that the Mosquito was a OHK, too. That means after game logic, the Mosquito is considered a fighter plane. I didn't test that, but it wouldn't surprise me if the same results would be found on the Stuka.

    Good post, thanks for putting that together.

    That answers why my OHK's have felt so inconsistent with the 'bombers'.
  • DerDoktorMabuse
    177 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    What are the complaints about the range about? Did they again buffed the range with the current patch? I mean, the ninja buff to AA range is like 2 or 3 month old... havent read none (98%) complaints about that in that time...
  • Terminator000001
    825 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited May 21
    What are the complaints about the range about? Did they again buffed the range with the current patch? I mean, the ninja buff to AA range is like 2 or 3 month old... havent read none (98%) complaints about that in that time...


    In 6.6, the sAA has a 20% range increase compared to 6.2. That covers the already small maps even more up.
  • DerDoktorMabuse
    177 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    But at least we have a proper flak38 now. This Gadget is DoktorMabuse approved, what means its currently "useful" in what it should do, when it gets the chance to do it. No more german supply tears when a "captured" Bofors is destroyed. Now the german supply player can proudly destroy the Bofors to replace it with much superior wehrmacht technology. And iam sure that there was a ROF ninja buff to the flak38 prior to the current patch (increased the amount of shots before it overheats from 18 to 21 and better ROF for the first 18 shots). Now its much better then the Flak43 improvement in the german MAA and overall better than all variants of the german MAA. The flak38 "feels" better now... havent tried the vierling variant yet but i cant imagine it became that much better... as i always found it "too" visible and not rewarding enough... but it is always cool to unleash some anger with a vierling barrage...
  • Terminator000001
    825 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited May 21
    But at least we have a proper flak38 now. This Gadget is DoktorMabuse approved, what means its currently "useful" in what it should do, when it gets the chance to do it. No more german supply tears when a "captured" Bofors is destroyed. Now the german supply player can proudly destroy the Bofors to replace it with much superior wehrmacht technology. And iam sure that there was a ROF ninja buff to the flak38 prior to the current patch (increased the amount of shots before it overheats from 18 to 21 and better ROF for the first 18 shots). Now its much better then the Flak43 improvement in the german MAA and overall better than all variants of the german MAA. The flak38 "feels" better now... havent tried the vierling variant yet but i cant imagine it became that much better... as i always found it "too" visible and not rewarding enough... but it is always cool to unleash some anger with a vierling barrage...



    Could've shown you that way earlier. 🦆



    And I'm not the guy who has good aim.
  • Hawxxeye
    7087 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited May 22
    DavTan said:

    FF is not as easy as you suggest , anything coming from your right side is obscured by the fligal itself.

    Have no problem with it, and the last one tought he could get revenge after i shot him down with the AA



    That was quite a great choice of music, well done. Why are the comments off though?
    SirBobdk said:
    Celsi_GER said:
    SirBobdk wrote: »
    (Quote)
    I would guess that less than 1% of the player base on PC could go 60-2 before patch.
    The rest had no idea what they were doing.
    So this game is now balanced around that 1% leaving the rest without any chance of learing how to fly.

     We must be playing different games ;)
    We don't play different games, but I think we play it differently. I've learned to play all classes and if I have a problem with a plane I'll take a plane.
    I don't have a problem of being bombed, its part of the game. As a pilot, I know where I should not be and always keep an eye on plans.
    But I also avoid Fjell (CQ), Iwo (BT) and some times storm (BT) if playing infantry. There's has always been farming maps for planes.
    It used to be the case that my reaction to Fjell CQ was to try to get to a plane.
    Since the one of the last 2 patches I find it more fun in Fjell to be using the British AA and waiting for an enemy flyer  to try to resupply on our side or to chase one of our planes back to our spawn.
  • DingoKillr
    4124 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited May 22
    What are the complaints about the range about? Did they again buffed the range with the current patch? I mean, the ninja buff to AA range is like 2 or 3 month old... havent read none (98%) complaints about that in that time...


    In 6.6, the sAA has a 20% range increase compared to 6.2. That covers the already small maps even more up.

    That is you opinion on range. 20% quoted as a damage increase.

    I just point out that velocity was increased this can give the appearance that it is longer range as the shell drop curve is flatten.

    I just add if a fighters has a health of 100 the bombers has an equivalent of 150. Fighter-bomber have always had the same health levels of fighters.
  • Hawxxeye
    7087 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    What are the complaints about the range about? Did they again buffed the range with the current patch? I mean, the ninja buff to AA range is like 2 or 3 month old... havent read none (98%) complaints about that in that time...


    In 6.6, the sAA has a 20% range increase compared to 6.2. That covers the already small maps even more up.

    That is you opinion on range. 20% quoted as a damage increase.

    I just point out that velocity was increased this can give the appearance that it is longer range as the shell drop curve is flatten.

    I just add if a fighters has a health of 100 the bombers has an equivalent of 150. Fighter-bomber have always had the same health levels of fighters.
    Basically anything that has a bomber role, has some sort of armor that reduces the damage of the smaller caliber shots
  • Terminator000001
    825 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    What are the complaints about the range about? Did they again buffed the range with the current patch? I mean, the ninja buff to AA range is like 2 or 3 month old... havent read none (98%) complaints about that in that time...


    In 6.6, the sAA has a 20% range increase compared to 6.2. That covers the already small maps even more up.

    That is you opinion on range. 20% quoted as a damage increase.

    I just point out that velocity was increased this can give the appearance that it is longer range as the shell drop curve is flatten.

    I just add if a fighters has a health of 100 the bombers has an equivalent of 150. Fighter-bomber have always had the same health levels of fighters.

    On Arras the Bofors could already shoot across the map up to the german spawn and still hit just fine and could hit at the altitude limit of Iwo Jima and Wake Island. This is even worse right now.


    The actual problem here is, that the sAA's have a fix value of their range, but the maps are very different in their size. And the maps in general are way too small to have planes in there at all.
    At the very least every kind bomber has no place in those, because of too many chokepoints in the map or just everything is so close to each other. A bomber basically nukes half of the map after already two fly-by's with it's load.

    But even maps like Panzerstorm still aren't big enough or don't offer enough space for planes, when the sAA is able to shoot half across the map.
  • NLBartmaN
    4484 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited May 22
    So conclusion: poor map design, poor balance, only very poor playerbase left (that does NOT shoot at Planes/Tanks/does NO class specific supporting tasks and walks in zergs) ...

    Add to that, devs that do not play with vehicles themselves and added powerful OP anti plane/anti ground weapons to the smallest and fastest planes that are now easymode noob planes ...

    And finally realised that and made AA stronger against those planes.
  • DutchFightert
    65 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye said:

    Why are the comments off though?

    Vid is uploaded with content is made for kids, now i see that the then disable comments.

  • DavTan
    822 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    DavTan wrote: »
    (Quote)
    Because there was no other source of damage hitting me, at all. I was just dead without the ability to do anything. And that guy was the only one at the flag. 

    That's my point, you don't know that it was the only source of damage from information presented to you. It doesn't matter whether he was the only one on the flag although I also don't see how you could know that for sure either as the killcam doesn't pan around the whole area. The other damage could have come from anywhere and would only have needed to hit you at the same time with a tiny amount for the fligal to get the kill.
    The same goes for that bomber clip posted above as it goes out of sight before the kill is given. ( Edit did you confirm with the pilot he was full health.. if not then that's just an assumption)
    As I said in my previous post if it is a real issue then it must be either a very rare glitch or a hidden angle/ speed multiplier dice have not told us about.
    If you fly on Xbox look out for me 😉 ... see you on the bf.



    *Just don't listen to the guy who actually knows what he's talking about. He could be right.*


    And now for real:
    I think this should prove enough. I especially met up with a couple friends on a Community Game server (the only good use for those things) to show that I was right. That I was flying relatevely close to the Fliegerfaust is irrelevant at this point. I just wanted to be sure that the full barrage was hitting me and the Fliegerfaust player wasn't that good with aiming that.

    As you can see, Spitfire and Mosquito are dead meat when they got fully hit, bombers don't, which surprised me a bit. I recorded 3 attemps to be 100% sure.

    But considering those 20% extra damage from the sAA against fighter planes, which also effects the Fliegerfaust currently, I shouldn't. Because this is the amount of damage that the Fliegerfaust was able to do on any plane before 6.6.
    What's really interesting is, that the Mosquito was a OHK, too. That means after game logic, the Mosquito is considered a fighter plane. I didn't test that, but it wouldn't surprise me if the same results would be found on the Stuka.

    I apologize, seems I was wrong , combined with some more testing today I agree.
    Looks like you'll have to fly high and be careful with any low straffing especially on the first flags being taken.
  • cashm0n3y08
    159 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Celsi_GER wrote: »
    SirBobdk wrote: »
    (Quote)
    I would guess that less than 1% of the player base on PC could go 60-2 before patch.
    The rest had no idea what they were doing.
    So this game is now balanced around that 1% leaving the rest without any chance of learing how to fly.

    If this were true, I was, for a period of 1,5 years, experiencing the strange statistical irregularity of having these 1%guys in 75% of the plane-supporting maps I have played.

    You and me, we met in several threads in this forums. Maybe you remember me writing that me and may clan mates actively avoided maps with planes in the past. Let me assure you, we did not give up on those maps because in 1 of 100 games there was one "invincible" pilot with xx:x score. No, we did this because on the large majority of those maps there were 1 or more of those invincible pilots.
    This does not compute with your 1% claim. We must be playing different games ;)

    Did it ever occur to you in those games that maybe you should get into a fighter yourself and shoot that plane down? Or is flying just something you refuse to do? Maybe after hours and hours of practice, which it requires (probably the reason why you don't try it) you would find out yourself that the best counter to a plane is another plane. No one on the other team goes 60-2 in a plane if I'm in the lobby, not once, and I have 29 days on this game. If I'm on the ground and get killed by a pilot on any sort of killstreak I'll wait for a fighter in the spawn and deal with him. If he's a good pilot and can dogfight we usually cancel each other out and finish the game with lame scores. If he's in a bomber...lol....he's for sure dead.

    I learned to fly in BF4 when I got tired of dying from the little bird over and over. Took the matter into my own hands instead of expecting some Devine god weapon to take out good pilots.
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