Weapon balance?

Comments

  • iron_site_sniper
    24 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    The amount of newbies running around with those easy to use semiauto rifle is unbearable.  nerf them a little, maybe 20%.
  • cashm0n3y08
    265 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    The amount of newbies running around with those easy to use semiauto rifle is unbearable.  nerf them a little, maybe 20%.
    I don't use semi-autos, more of an SMG guy myself, but what makes you think semi's are newbie rifles as compared to other guns? Just doesn't make sense to me, I know a lot of players who play in leagues that absolutely wreck with semi-autos, and those guys are definitely not noobs. If it were indeed a newbie gun, then it would imply that everyone can be good with them, which is not true. And what does nerfing 20% actually mean? Damage output? Range? Muzzle Velocity? You're all over the place bud. 
  • InS_Hypno
    599 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 12
    InS_Hypno wrote: »
    (Quote)
    Try fighting a BAR with an 1907 from further then 15m

    Spoiler you can't

    Don't try to pretend you know when you have literally 35 seconds of playtime with the m1907

    You can.
    You are forgetting that you can switch modes the M1907 is a laser in that mode.
    I've never seen people use the 1907 is any other mode than full auto, good enough players will be able to handle the recoil, same goes for the BAR ( although I've seen people use the burst with it )

    Hawxxeye said:
    InS_Hypno said:

    Do you aware people can control recoil?

    Sorry to butt in like that but if people can control the recoil of a gun whose high recoil is supposed to be what balances its other qualities like damage and/or RoF then there is not enough recoil on that gun.



    The only way to stop people from being able to control recoil is to make it random
    CS:GO has insane amount of recoil compared to everything there is in this game but people are still very accurate while spraying, what makes people tap/burst is weapon inaccuracy which is random

    mf_shro0m said:

                   "I like the BAR and the M1907 and I’m not gonna choose between them but having 1 good gun doesn’t change the fact that the support weapons need an overhaul"

    That was never my point, from the very beginning my point was that the support class is overall an easier but worse alternative to assault 
  • talhaONE
    972 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 12
    InS_Hypno wrote: »

    That was never my point, from the very beginning my point was that the support class is overall an easier but worse alternative to assault 

    Assault is easier to use then Support. Assault gets easier to use guns with not so much skill required gadgets.

    So no your point is WRONG. Support worse then Assault and it isnt any easier to use.

    Fun fact: The classes with ARs are pretty much overpowered and easiest to use in every BF title. Altough Support in Bf5 is the worst Support compared to other titles.
  • InS_Hypno
    599 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 12
    It's funny how you always have to bring gadgets into a weapon discussion 

    support weapons are easier to pick up but are worse in general, it's not hard to understand
  • talhaONE
    972 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    InS_Hypno wrote: »
    It's funny how you always have to bring gadget into a weapon discussion 

    Because Gadgets affects gun balancing. There is a reason why medic guns are weaker at range. Because their gadgets are very strong with the attirition mechanics.

    But the Assault? Good guns and good gadgets. Is this balanced to you? Or support has mediocre guns with mediocre gadgets?
  • InS_Hypno
    599 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    talhaONE said:
    InS_Hypno wrote: »
    It's funny how you always have to bring gadget into a weapon discussion 

    Because Gadgets affects gun balancing. There is a reason why medic guns are weaker at range. Because their gadgets are very strong with the attirition mechanics.

    But the Assault? Good guns and good gadgets. Is this balanced to you? Or support has mediocre guns with mediocre gadgets?
    na you're just grabbing at straws
    Literally you said in your own post that it wasn't the case
    Also Carbines break that argument of "medic guns being weaker at range"
  • talhaONE
    972 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 12
    InS_Hypno wrote: »
    (Quote)
    na you're just grabbing at straws
    Literally you said in your own post that it wasn't the case
    Also Carbines break that argument of "medic guns being weaker at range"
    When did I said that wasnt the case? Gadgets always affect the gun balancing. Thats like this since the begining of Bf5.

    Carbines are weaker then SLRs you know that right? Yes you can snipe with them but you can snipe more effectively with a SLR or Bolt action rifles at range.
  • InS_Hypno
    599 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 12
    talhaONE said:
    InS_Hypno wrote: »
    (Quote)
    na you're just grabbing at straws
    Literally you said in your own post that it wasn't the case
    Also Carbines break that argument of "medic guns being weaker at range"
    When did I said that wasnt the case? Gadgets always affect the gun balancing. Thats like this since the begining of Bf5.

    Carbines are weaker then SLRs you know that right? Yes you can snipe with them but you can snipe more effectively with a SLR or Bolt action rifles at range.
    According to you both support and assault gun balancing doesn't take gadgets into account
    2/4 classes 
    I'll argue the medic class doesn't either
    SLR are only better if you can't land head shots with carbines, if you're good enough with the carbines you will be able to take fights where you are always in OS range so you're basically running with a sniper rifle ( being the 9th person with the most kill with the jungle carbine on PC I kinda know that for a fact)
    So that would make 3/4 class that doesn't take gadget into account when it comes to gun balancing
    Pretty flimsy argument if it doesn't apply to the majority of the classes
  • talhaONE
    972 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    InS_Hypno wrote: »
    (Quote)
    According to you both support and assault gun balancing doesn't take gadgets into account
    2/4 classes 
    I'll argue the medic class doesn't either
    SLR are only better if you can't land head shots with carbines, if you're good enough with the carbines you will be able to take fights where you are always in OS range so you're basically running with a sniper rifle ( being the 9th person with the most kill with the jungle carbine on PC I kinda know that for a fact)
    So that would make 3/4 class that doesn't take gadget into account when it comes to gun balancing
    Pretty flimsy argument if it doesn't apply to the majority of the classes
    Support has worse guns and worse gadgets. And no I didnt said anything like gadgets dont take into account. Gadgets always take into account when compare between classes.

    What the hell do you understand from range? Jungle carbine has one shot kill potential only at 75 meters and after that SLRs always have the advantage. From a sniping perspective 75 meters is pretty short. Carbines better at closer ranges only if you can land headshots consistenly. SLRs are still better at closer distances if you miss headshots.

    The point is Assault has good guns and good gadgets while support has mediocre guns with mediocre gadgets. This has nothing to do with the amount of skill required because support guns are just worse copy paste assault rifles. All support guns (Yes including shotguns) needs their range increased to on par with ARs.
  • InS_Hypno
    599 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 13
    talhaONE said:
    InS_Hypno wrote: »
    (Quote)
    According to you both support and assault gun balancing doesn't take gadgets into account
    2/4 classes 
    I'll argue the medic class doesn't either
    SLR are only better if you can't land head shots with carbines, if you're good enough with the carbines you will be able to take fights where you are always in OS range so you're basically running with a sniper rifle ( being the 9th person with the most kill with the jungle carbine on PC I kinda know that for a fact)
    So that would make 3/4 class that doesn't take gadget into account when it comes to gun balancing
    Pretty flimsy argument if it doesn't apply to the majority of the classes
    Support has worse guns and worse gadgets. And no I didnt said anything like gadgets dont take into account. Gadgets always take into account when compare between classes.

    What the hell do you understand from range? Jungle carbine has one shot kill potential only at 75 meters and after that SLRs always have the advantage. From a sniping perspective 75 meters is pretty short. Carbines better at closer ranges only if you can land headshots consistenly. SLRs are still better at closer distances if you miss headshots.

    The point is Assault has good guns and good gadgets while support has mediocre guns with mediocre gadgets. This has nothing to do with the amount of skill required because support guns are just worse copy paste assault rifles. All support guns (Yes including shotguns) needs their range increased to on par with ARs.
    Jungle is lethal at 100m btw
    People are bad at the game, you can take anyone at basically any reasonable range with it by simply strafing back and forward 
    Also Idk why you're so focused on comparing it to SRLs and Snipers when the argument is just that medic gun were bad at range
    Bolt Actions carbine aren't bad at range, are they the best ranged weapons? No ( although they can compete with SLRs and Snipers when you're good ). Do they still rekt 99% of the rest of weapons at range? Yeah. 
    No you indeed didn't say that directly but maybe if you connect the dots of you stating assault has good weapons and good gadget and support has bad guns and bad gadgets, you'll suddenly realize that according to you 50% of the classes aren't balanced with gadgets in mind
    "This has nothing to do with the amount of skill required because support guns are just worse copy paste assault rifles."
    This doesn't negate what I'm saying, support guns are easier to pick up and worse in general
    To put in terms you supposedly understand 
    They have a higher skill floor and lower skill ceiling ( low skill, low reward )
    They are designed in a way so players with lower mechanical skill can pick up but not in a way that would make them broken for a good players ( Except the BAR which follows the skill cannon design idea which is the same for the M1907 and the 20 Round Tommy, high skill requirement, high reward )
    And no shotguns don't need a buff, they scale with the skill of the player, there is no good player who thinks they need any kind of buffs
  • InS_Hypno
    599 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 13
    buffered 
    Post edited by InS_Hypno on
  • DingoKillr
    4343 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    InS_Hypno wrote: »
    (Quote)
    Jungle is lethal at 100m btw
    People are bad at the game, you can take anyone at basically any reasonable range with it by simply strafing back and forward 
    Also Idk why you're so focused on comparing it to SRLs and Snipers when the argument is just that medic gun were bad at range
    Bolt Actions carbine aren't bad at range, are they the best ranged weapons? No ( although they can compete with SLRs and Snipers when you're good ). Do they still rekt 99% of the rest of weapons at range? Yeah. 
    No you indeed didn't say that directly but maybe if you connect the dots of you stating assault has good weapons and good gadget and support has bad guns and bad gadgets, you'll suddenly realize that according to you 50% of the classes aren't balanced with gadgets in mind
    "This has nothing to do with the amount of skill required because support guns are just worse copy paste assault rifles."
    This doesn't negate what I'm saying, support guns are easier to pick up and worse in general
    To put in terms you supposedly understand 
    They have a higher skill floor and lower skill ceiling ( low skill, low reward )
    They are designed in a way so players with lower mechanical skill can pick up but not in a way that would make them broken for good players ( Except the BAR which follows the skill cannon design idea which is the same for the M1907 and the 20 Round Tommy, high skill requirement, high reward )
    And no shotguns don't need a buff, they scale with the skill of the player, there is no good player who thinks they need any kind of buffs
    Might aswell ask for a 2A buff while we're at it

    You keep talking about good players.

    You don't see good players use the 1907 like that. You mean yourself. As I very rarely see the 1907 used at all. The 1907 and BAR would be classified as extinct in the wild and only seen in captivity. Going on what kills me all LMG are not far behind expect the Lewis with it 1HS kill ability.

    How do good place scale shotguns?
    Sure I can see it with BA, PC, BAC, SAR, AR, SMG, MMG, LMG or even pistols as they can reduce the number bullets to kill.
    Not shotguns. You keep talking hiding behind these good players when you mean yourself.

    You have a very liberal use of lethal you say jungle is up 100m with 2 shots guess that 1907 still lethal at 100m too.
  • bran1986
    5913 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Simply put, weapon balance sucks. Go semi auto and forget any automatic that isn't over 600 rpm, if it is under 600 rpm it is garbage.
  • DerDoktorMabuse
    377 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    People want a ton of weapons and all of them should be useful and unique... how many weapons do we have now? 40? 45? 50? What do people expect how this could be achieved? We have high ROF / short distance SMG and low ROF / long distance SMG... what the hell people want? A SMG with low ROF / short distance? Useless! or high ROF / long distance SMG? OP! I think i would hate to be a game developer as most customers seem to be of younger age with an attention span shorter than the life of a mayfly crying for more, more and more...
  • talhaONE
    972 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    InS_Hypno wrote: »
    (Quote)
    Jungle is lethal at 100m btw

    No it isnt. Jungle 1 hs kill only at 75 meters. Bolt action carbines have 1.8x headshot multipler not 2.0x.

    Seriously you are clueless about weapon stats.

  • DingoKillr
    4343 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    We have high ROF / short distance SMG and low ROF / long distance SMG... what the hell people want? 
    Some want a favorite weapon even if it look the same go figure.  While those 2 type should be the bases, you can add variants from that like Recoil left/right, silenced, difference in distance between extreme and difference in ROF.  You could also add things like bipod, bayonet or both. You could also added things like slow reload to more ammo mag.
  • Hawxxeye
    7730 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 13
    talhaONE said:
    InS_Hypno wrote: »
    (Quote)
    na you're just grabbing at straws
    Literally you said in your own post that it wasn't the case
    Also Carbines break that argument of "medic guns being weaker at range"
    When did I said that wasnt the case? Gadgets always affect the gun balancing. Thats like this since the begining of Bf5.

    Carbines are weaker then SLRs you know that right? Yes you can snipe with them but you can snipe more effectively with a SLR or Bolt action rifles at range.
    The Jungle carbine however has  OHK headshots at a reasonable distance + no scope glint (double standards DICE).
    I consider being able to kill an unaware enemy with 1 shot before he can take cover from a second shot to be very powerful
    The only reason I am not using it more often is that someone needs to use flares cause the other nincompoops don't do it.
    .
    Since we are comparing the carbines to the SLRs I will let the straight pull bolt slide
  • BeastofBourbon84
    728 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    First round of the day.
    LMGs so bad omg can't win a single firefight.
    https://battlefieldtracker.com/bfv/gamereport/origin/1271742406062077888?handle=BeastofBourbon84
  • Hawxxeye
    7730 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 13
    First round of the day.
    LMGs so bad omg can't win a single firefight.
    https://battlefieldtracker.com/bfv/gamereport/origin/1271742406062077888?handle=BeastofBourbon84

    I would had liked to see a recording of that round, for science.
    Something tells me that a lot of the enemy team were several leagues bellow you. You would had still come out on top with just sidearms (other than the liberator ofc). Only that DouYuTV who is maining Action Man was anywhere close to your average k/d.
    When a level 100 colonel is taking out a chopper witha  knife it is not an issue of the chopper not being stronger than the knife
    .
    Mountaineering boots are also not ideal for playing football but if the enemy team from the elementary school then you can still win.
    Post edited by Hawxxeye on
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