This is why fog mechanics in bf1 are bad

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  • MarxistDictator
    5234 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Right except you guys double back to 'but it does improve the variety' while actually trying to argue against the definition of the word. More is more, less is not more. Less of anything is less variety. Less play styles being supported at once is less game to be played at a given time. You actually have to change the parameters of the word to arrive at 'variety'.

    You have also repeatedly decided to misconstrue the argument that all maps play basically the same in fog by saying one map literally does not turn into another when fog is up. Ok? No one ever said Giants turns into St. Quentin Scar when fog rolls in, only that the 'fog gameplay' on Giants hardly differs from St. Quentin. Or any map for that matter.

    So yes I guess if you are that backwards you can possibly bend to believe those points sure. But after playing BF1 heavily for 3 years I know for certain variety is the first thing that goes out the window when fog rolls in (and it still rolls in way too much for anyone's liking). You can disagree and be wrong here just like with the heavy bomber, I care. Good game mechanics defend themselves.
  • disposalist
    8944 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Nope, I argue that *change* adds variety and that fog *changes* the way a map plays.  You keep calling it 'less' because it reduces your particular favoured playstyle, maybe?  *shrug* I don't know.  It's clear you can't be persuaded to see it the way I do.

    Weird isn't it that I've also played BF1 for 3 years and find that variety does *not* go out of the window when fog rolls in, but I often find I can change tactics to something I couldn't be successful with without the fog.  Almost as if it *adds* to the tactics I might of used in that map.  Kinda like adding to the tactical variety of the match.

    I do often hear snipers and pilots complaining when fog rolls in though.
  • RRedux
    743 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Hey, OP here, I don't mind the concept of fog in battlefield in itself, I am just not happy that sniper scopes removes the fog. Like, as you can see in the video, the sniper scopes literally removes the fog effect.

    Normally, one would think that fog would be a disadvantage for snipers, since it provides cover for moving infantry. But in bf1, it is opposite, snipers with scopes can see enemies just fine from far away as long as they are zoomed in, but the infantry running in the fog has no chance of spotting the sniper because of the fog.

    It has literally the opposite effect of what it should have.
  • Titan_Awaken
    1231 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Ok obviously one map does not literally change into another but the fog gameplay of one map differs little from the next. No where near the variety of the actual maps between themselves.

    Doubly so when fog seems to be biased towards the already limited air maps. And 1/10 would not even be worth discussing but it's not anywhere near that uncommon. It's like 2 times more likely than that at least.

    And really we haven't seen any excuses for what it does besides 'mix up' the gameplay in ways that are totally possible to play normally without issue and that it nerfs vehicles which you already profess to not like. Pretty obvious you would enjoy things that nerf vehicles even if they don't really add to the gameplay variety. Since by all qualifies nerfing the vehicle play doesn't really make the game more varied.
    You didn't quote me so I'm just gonna assume that this was directed towards me based on the first sentence of your reply. If it wasn't directed to me, just ignore everything written below.

    ---

    I refuse to discuss the statistical probability of fog per match because there is insufficient evidence to make any factual claims. There certainly isn't enough evidence to prove or disprove any potential bias on maps with planes. Until this info is either datamined or released by DICE, the probability of fog remains conjecture.

    However, you have made a claim that air maps are disproportionately affected by fog so the onus is on you to definitively prove it using irrefutable evidence. Can't prove it? Don't make the claim.

    Next, your claim that fog has less variety than the actual maps themselves is an example of a false equivalence. You're comparing fog, a game mechanic to one or more maps. These are two independent entities differing from each other in more ways than one. That would be like trying to compare a gun to a tank; they're incompatible with each other.

    Also when you generalise by saying "fog gameplay" differs little between matches is an empty statement that doesn't mean anything. You're effectively lumping every possible aspect and variable tied to the fog mechanic as a whole under a single term, "fog gameplay". If I said, "gun/vehicle gameplay differs little from one map to another" you would take me for an idiot and rightfully so because not only is this untrue but it is also a vast generalisation/oversimplification on my end. 

    Now for the vehicle part. At no point did I EVER profess that I dislike vehicles in any way, shape or form. Perhaps you are confusing me for Wetfish? Mr. Wetfish said he/she/they don't like planes, not me. And once again your presumption that I would, "enjoy things that would nerf vehicles" is yet another example of a baseless assumption, with the first one saying that I'm a Heavy Bomber player. The ONE and ONLY vehicle I will openly say that I dislike is the Mortar Truck not because it's OP or broken but solely because it is cheap as hell. 

    As for the "excuses" part, you don't seem to understand that fog is essentially a white layer over the map. Fog can appear on every map but if the players don't want to change how they play, the fault is more on the players than the fog. The choice is still there: You can choose to ignore the fog and play like you usually do or take advantage of the reduced view distance and run a different loadout. Fog doesn't mandate certain playstyles while rendering other ones useless. The furthest I'm willing to go is to say that it encourages CQC and deters mid to long range engagements which is OK since it does not appear during every match. 

    Ground vehicles such as tanks can actually cover more ground before being spotted and peppered by an AT rocket gun Assault so if anything, tanks and ground vehicles actually benefit from the reduced view distance.

    Air vehicles are another story. Planes are admittedly not as effective when fog is present but that's definitely not to say that planes are completely unviable in fog; it just means that pilots will have to work harder and/or meticulously to achieve the same level of performance. This isn't a bad thing at all. Planes are arguably the most effective vehicles in the entire game in the hands of a smart pilot. A reduction in view distance should provide an extra layer of challenge to their flying capabilities; a testament to their skill one might say.

    Boom! That's variation in gameplay due to fog, for infantry and for vehicles. Debunked. 
  • Titan_Awaken
    1231 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2019
    Oh and by the way, if we assume there was a flat percentage chance for fog to occur on any given map, the statistical probability of fog occurring in 10 matches consecutively is absurdly low.

    Let's vastly overestimate and say this flat percentage was 50%, basically a coin toss if the next map will be fogged over or not. For the next 10 maps to be fogged over CONSECUTIVELY there is a 0.0009765625% chance of this occurring or 0.5 to the 10th power % chance of this occurring. If we take MarxistDictator's 20% flat chance, the probability of 10 consecutive fogged over matches becomes 0.0000001024% or 0.2 to the 10th power % chance. 

    So you know if you've really experienced fog 10 matches in a row, PLEASE, PLEASE consider buying a lottery ticket because I have no doubts that you'll win the 1st prize money on your first try. And also when there's a thunderstorm outside, please take shelter for your own safety because you'll be struck by lightning. In the same spot. Twice.
  • MarxistDictator
    5234 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2019
    Right and I played 4 ops yesterday and of those 12 rounds 4 had fog. It is definitely not uncommon at all, and any claims that it is not biased towards air maps is a joke. Whenever I got to Suez or Achi Baba the fog disappeared, on Sinai it reappeared and the rest of the time it was fairly regular on Fao and Cape Helles.

    Also fog does not encourage CQB if it lets snipers hide in plain sight and become invisible to players without scopes. Try again, just like the rest of your not arguments. Here you are framing points like *this* suddenly means you actually said something and didn't just repeat something that was already proven to be nonsense (like variety being more and not less).

    Also I do more than just fly planes or drive tanks, which is exactly why I hate fog. I can play infantry for rounds in a row but the second I hop in a plane the game summons fog. How is that variety at all? No substance arguments and *I think this is what the word actually means* is just nonsense dude. Just like the heavy bomber you are completely wrong but incapable of appreciating why. Dunning Krueger effect ladies and gentlemen.

    Next up: more players who hate vehicles in battlefield tell us how fog does something apart nerfing them and buffing snipers
  • MarxistDictator
    5234 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2019
    Post eater forum.

    Anyways I played 4 Ops yesterday, around 12 rounds in total with the battalions. Of those 4 had fog, and all 4 times it was on the maps with planes. Of the remaining 8 rounds 4 were played on maps that didn't even have planes anyway (Suez/Achi Baba). So 1/2 of the time there were planes they were useless since Fao and Cape Helles feature that pea soup fog where planes are worthless unless hurling explosives randomly at the ground you can't even tell if you're facing or not is considered 'helping'.

    Not sure how that made the gameplay more varied on a map that already limits non vehicle gameplay greatly. The snipers were not discouraged at all courtesy of their scopes, at one point I counted 19 Scouts on the Ottoman side. Yes, it definitely made the gameplay more CQB..except for all the snipers hiding in plain sight since only other scopes lifts the veil so they can be seen.

    I hate fog because it hurts variety. I play all classes and vehicles so if I play infantry like 5 maps in a row and then decide to hop in a plane and see fog instantly roll in the end result was not me having a varied game play experience. Do you even understand that.

    And if you are literally going to keep repeating that this is *variety* (cute of you to frame your opinions instead of developing good ones) then we have literally nothing to discuss. This is just a repeat of the heavy bomber topic now - Dunning Krueger effect to the maximum. I can't appreciate why something is an issue so it is not an issue to me.
  • WetFishDB
    2326 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2019
    Post eater forum.

    Anyways I played 4 Ops yesterday, around 12 rounds in total with the battalions. Of those 4 had fog, and all 4 times it was on the maps with planes. Of the remaining 8 rounds 4 were played on maps that didn't even have planes anyway (Suez/Achi Baba). So 1/2 of the time there were planes they were useless since Fao and Cape Helles feature that pea soup fog where planes are worthless unless hurling explosives randomly at the ground you can't even tell if you're facing or not is considered 'helping'.

    Not sure how that made the gameplay more varied on a map that already limits non vehicle gameplay greatly. The snipers were not discouraged at all courtesy of their scopes, at one point I counted 19 Scouts on the Ottoman side. Yes, it definitely made the gameplay more CQB..except for all the snipers hiding in plain sight since only other scopes lifts the veil so they can be seen.

    I hate fog because it hurts variety. I play all classes and vehicles so if I play infantry like 5 maps in a row and then decide to hop in a plane and see fog instantly roll in the end result was not me having a varied game play experience. Do you even understand that.

    And if you are literally going to keep repeating that this is *variety* (cute of you to frame your opinions instead of developing good ones) then we have literally nothing to discuss. This is just a repeat of the heavy bomber topic now - Dunning Krueger effect to the maximum. I can't appreciate why something is an issue so it is not an issue to me.

    I really don’t think it’s an example of Dunning Kreuger effect - not between you and I for example. I suspect both of us are pretty reasonable players (good win rates, SPM, KPM, and KDR etc... reflective of the different game modes). Both spent way too many hours in this game than we’d like to admit too... all of which means this doesn’t really sound like an example of people being unaware of their inability. I suspect it’s more observer bias.

    Interesting that fog seems, anecdotally, way more prevalent on Xbox/Ops than it is on PS4/Conquest. As I said before, if Fog was way more frequent than it was (for me) then I would probably find it limiting and repetitive too. It just isn’t anywhere near that frequent for me, which is why the change to the regular routine is more welcome.

    Ops also doesn’t have as much variety in the way any given maps play (mostly just two flags active at any one time resulting in less variable player flows) so I can see why you find fog more limiting as you already don’t get as many differences on map dynamics compared to someone who mainly plays Conquest.

    I also don’t enjoy spending time in vehicles at all really, so the impact on enjoyment to me is negligible and probably positive, and therefore it wouldn’t draw my attention as much as someone who finds it a big negative. Just like I definitely notice when a server has a Murometes scrub constantly respawning. I remember those much more pertinently than other games where they simply didn’t.
  • ashar_saleem121
    1371 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I dont know about you guys, but I like being able to see the game I'm playing. That's just me though. The fog only helps people who stay still. Movement makes you much more visible in the fog versus the people camping. It makes snipers with scopes even deadlier because their scopes can peer right through the fog.

    If it was once every 10 maps or so for 5 minutes or so I would tolerate it. But Ive had entire games go by in the fog only to have it on the next map as well.

    I just want to be able to see. I know, what a noob and unreasonable thing to want.

    TL,DR: I hate fog.
  • bfloo11111111111
    220 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    I liked how it changed the game up a bit since it hit randomly.

    As annoying as it could be, especially during sniper challenges, it mixed it up a bit.
  • opsis_1
    251 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    It's a nice change..been playing fog since tribes 98' 
  • ssjsnoop
    313 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    it's a little stupid.
  • Titan_Awaken
    1231 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    ssjsnoop said:
    it's a little stupid.
    Half a year just to come up with that? Really? 

    /necro
  • MarxistDictator
    5234 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    There’s been deader bumped threads, not like the fog went anywhere. Still the only ‘weather’ in that touted on ‘weather system’ we only got on like 3 other maps. Besides fog, the only inclement weather that existed in those days.
  • Tunza42
    35 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Hello!! Welcome to the internet!!


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