might as well just get rid of planes

Comments

  • SirBobdk
    5294 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 25
    Loqtrall said:

    At that point its criticism aimed at the FF being irregularly effective at literally the one thing it's capable of doing.

    That's like saying "I can't OHK headshot someone with a Thompson, so why can people do it with a rifle" while ignoring you can run around with the Thompson and a 50 round drum mag absolutely bullet hosing people from the hip in CQB with literally the second fastest full auto ttk in the game.
    What I'm trying to say is that the buff against fighters have made it so easy to farm infantry.
    I understand the buff of AA against bombers and attack planes, but the game needs fighters to deal with planes. Now it's all up to ground.
    I can easily go +25 to 1 in every game because dogfights have been taken out of the game.
    I just stay on my side of the map and farm infantry. Rocket SAA and MAA. I dont think it's any good for the game.
    If a fighter tries to counter me I just fly low over own team and he gets FF ohk or get killed by Saa/Maa.
    Personaly I dont have a problem with AA/MAA/FF, but I think the game have.

  • Man_ILoveFishing
    383 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 25


    Here you go, i played yesterday only assault. Tbh i can't really tell how many OHK would been cause some planes were damaged a bit, rare for sure it's not. These all are from yesterday.

    I can go today also with ~100 kills and pretty sure my aim is much better compared yesterdays. Also, i tried many odd and long long distance shots, this part is hard and rare to kill. At the end you can see some shots. And last clip, idk wth happened there. PS. Soundtracks are mine.


  • iamwiener
    280 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Just finished 1 game of Fjell. 2 Fighters...72-2 and 60-0 with Fliegerfaust all over the place
  • Man_ILoveFishing
    383 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 25
    iamwiener said:
    Just finished 1 game of Fjell. 2 Fighters...72-2 and 60-0 with Fliegerfaust all over the place
    Fjell should not have planes in first place. Narrow map for infantry, no place to take cover and planes can take fast cover behind mountains. No wonder bombers and fighters enjoy it.
  • Celsi_GER
    791 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Hm, Fjell is my favorite map when it comes to takes down planes. With SAA, not so much with Fliegerfaust. Many SAA, in good locations (compared to other maps), many enemy planes to shoot at and airspace is rather small. I am not good at SAA, but a few weeks ago I went 21:0, "camping" in the SAA below A flag the whole round.
    Tbh, I strongly disliked Fjell before the FF/SAA range buff, but now I like it again because planes do not rule the map anymote, they now have a hard time when all SAAs are manned.
  • Frindly-Fire-4
    314 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
  • Man_ILoveFishing
    383 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Hey, to me someome said, rare. First part of vids all are 100 damage. Doesn't matter how many games, how many shots, i did all this in one day. And i played as assault normal game. You wouldn't learn flying in one day. Also i proved that, you don't need it to be OHK. Gee, compare with skill and experience. I haven't seen yet someone dogdging every ff shot yet, specially from loudest voices. I offered one gaming day on class abdnd weapon that i practically never use to show, how hard it is. And on field there can be a lot ffs same time. You should put urself in my shoes cause i was in ''no flier' aka grounds shoes.
  • Celsi_GER
    791 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    3,6 kills per match already is rare, especially when this person is a very skilled player (you are, in my eyes) who sacrifices "normal" gameplay for getting as much FF kills as possible. 1,5 of them being OHKs is even more rare.
    Now imagine an average player instead of a skilled player: OHK get's even more rare for him. Imagine this average player playing the objective instead of staring manically into the skies all the time, how many FF OHKs will this person have per match, if you try to estimate in a fair way: 0,75, 0,5? 0,3? 0,1?
    Any of this values matches the term "rare". And this is what our "fight" is all about (from my side) : Statistics say that, in a normal, average game it is impossible that you even get OHKed half as often as you claim. You (pilots) drastically exaggerate, hoping to drive DICE to remove OHK possibility from FF.

    As mentioned several times before, I do not even have a problem with removing OHK possibility from FF, I support this request.
    I have a problem with the dishonest way you do it: describing the FF als monstrously overpowered weapon. Knowing Dice, this might encourage them to do more than just remove OHK from FF: They might nerf it to death again.
    This is what I want to avoid at all cost, this is why I am so much dedicated to exposing all desinformation about the FF.
    If have no problem with planes. I have no problem with pilots. I have a problem with deliberate desinformation which might encourage Dice to release one of their typically overdone nerfs.
  • Celsi_GER
    791 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 26
    Oh, and there is another thing which makes me insist that OHKs are rare: personal experience. I consider myself
    an average player in all classes except planes (tried it, didn't like the joystick mechanics, refuse to use keyboard, disregarded planes in BFV).

    I have 107 FF kills, approx. 60 to 70 of them after patch 6.6.
    Only 3 of those 60 - 70 FF kills are OHKs, and I needed to start playing Pacific maps again to get them. On Vanilla maps I still got not a single OHK after 6.6.
    I consider those 3 OHKs out of 60 to 70 kills as rare, not taking into account all the partial hits and complete misses - if they are also considered (and they should be), OHKs easily move into the ultra-rare zone. Base amount for OHK ratio should not be the sum of all kills, but of all shots

    Of course I don't expect you to believe my description of my personal experience any more than I believe yours (which I don't), but I wanted to mention it anyway.

    Note: "you" in my above text is not a single person. It is the small group of "pro" pilots in this thread claiming that OHKs are not rare.
  • AngrySquid270
    134 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Doesn't matter how many games, how many shots, i did all this in one day.  And i played as assault normal game.

    You put in 8-10hr of BFV yesterday.  You weren't trying to win games.  You were trying to prove a point.  In most (if not all) of those games you had the FF equipped over 50% of the time.  You seem to be trying to pass this off as 'normal games' on a 'normal day'.  8-10hr of BFV in a day is not normal.  Having a gadget equipped more than your primary weapon is not normal.

    You claimed you did 100 FF kills yesterday.  You've claimed that you could also do 100 FF kills today.  You present 100 FF kill/day as reasonable. If you kept that pace for a week you'd be #88 in the world. Keep that pace for three weeks and you'd be #7 in the world. That's pretty remarkable considering the rest of the community has had a 9 month headstart on you.  Also it's worth pointing out that you didn't get 100 FF kills as claimed yesterday - you got 65.

    You wouldn't learn flying in one day....  I offered one gaming day on class and weapon that i practically never use to show, how hard it is....You should put urself in my shoes cause i was in ''no flier' aka grounds shoes.

    I don't think it's really fair to equate the learning curve of the FF to planes.  Planes are infinately more complex, but you're right I wouldn't learn to fly in one day. However you have 2200 shots with the FF - which you claim you 'practically never use' - probably puts you fairly near the top of the FF learning curve.

    I don't fly and don't plan on trying.  My desire to win games out weighs my desire to fly.  For me to learn to fly at this stage in the game would put an unnessary burden on my team.

    Even if I did learn to fly I'm not sure it'd really change my position on things.  Even as a non pilot I think the SAA and MAA should be removed from the game.  Even as a non-pilot I don't think the FF should be able to OHK.  I'm already on 'team pilot' for several of the biggest points.  My only dispute is with the pilots making exagerated claims about the FF's abilities.  The FF doesn't need to be nerfed back to the way it was.  The FF needs to be tweaked in a way which removes the OHK ability, but retains its current effectiveness which is about ~1-3 unassisted kills a game and ~1-3 assisted kills a game. 
  • trip1ex
    5220 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 26


    Here you go, i played yesterday only assault. Tbh i can't really tell how many OHK would been cause some planes were damaged a bit, rare for sure it's not. These all are from yesterday.

    I can go today also with ~100 kills and pretty sure my aim is much better compared yesterdays. Also, i tried many odd and long long distance shots, this part is hard and rare to kill. At the end you can see some shots. And last clip, idk wth happened there. PS. Soundtracks are mine.


    You can tell when you get a 'OHK' by watching the 'Vehicle Hit' numbers.  A 'OHK' will either show up as "Vehicle Hit +54" followed by "Vehicle Hit +46".  Or the game will combine the damage into a single 'Vehicle Hit +100".  

    From the 65kills you got in the video 42% were unassisted  kills.  

    From your BattleReports you played 20rounds of conquest yesterday with 62 FF kills.

    I'll be conservative and say 2 of those rounds were only partial matches.  I'll also assume that the stat website didn't credit you for 3 of the kills.

    So at the end of the day we're looking at 65 FF kills over 18 matches.  Or 3.6 FF kills per match.  If we factor in the 42% 'OHK' rate you demonstrated in the video that means you're getting about 1.5 'OHK' FF kills per match.

    I think it's also fair to mention that from your Battle Reports that getting FF kills was your #1 priority yesterday - you weren't really playing the objective.

    For someone that's primarly focused in getting kills with the FF does 3.6kills per match (1.5 unassisted "OHK") feel overpowered to you?  If you think those numbers are evidence that the FF is OP then what is a fair number?  Consider further that if you had been playing the objective those kills per match would likely be less. 



    I agree with the pilots that 'OHK's from unseen threats is an awful and frustrating gameplay mechanic.  I support the removal of the 'OHK' ability as long as the FF gets buffed in some other way (or planes get their self repair nerfed).  

    What I don't agree with is that the FF is overpowered and too effective in its current state.   3-4 plane kills/game for a dedicated FF user seems pretty reasonable to me.  If pilots get their way and have the FF nerfed back to the way it was a dedicated FF user could only expect about ~2 assisted kills per match or if you're playing the objective the FF user would likely only be seeing ~1 assisted FF kill per match.




    being a dedicated FF soldier is playing the objective.  someone needs to take out the planes.  

    also only getting 3-4 plane kills a game doesn't speak for how many chances the player had to kill the planes.  YOu  can't chase a plane across the map on foot so you are never going to rack up lots of plane kills from the ground.   The plane has to come somewhat near you and you have to be looking.   Nevermind there are only a couple planes on almost every map.   if you kill a plane it doesn't come back for a minute or two at best.  Nevermind you're also competing with friendly FF, AA, MAA and planes to take out enemy pilots.  

    I mean it's the same difference with tank kills.  Go tank hunting on foot.  You are never going to go 20-x hunting tanks as a foot soldier.  You aren't going to go 10-x either.  

    But i agree it's definitely a dumb mechanic when some random in the bushes can just take you out in 1 shot with little effort. 

    but for me that spoke of much of the game play in BFV. 

  • Trokey66
    9033 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 26
    Panzerfuast is OP!



    Big up @fisknyllet17 by the way!
    Post edited by Trokey66 on
  • Man_ILoveFishing
    383 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 26
    But it's obvious that people don't even think in logical perspective, bashing numbers around of not even considering how long plane spawns, where planes are going. 3-4 kills per round "per person" with a FF is fine, cause you are not alone ff user, planes get attacked by other planes, planes get attacked by AA. What do you expect from numbers? There even might not be any planes cause of f-up air gameplay.


    But hey, i provided video and people still provides me words. I'd like now someone of non fliers convince me that i am wrong, wrong about not getting OHK by ff often when sitting in cockpit, and make sure to go 60:0 like you say. :)

    EDIT: Now i'm done for good anyway. Bye
    Post edited by Man_ILoveFishing on
  • Celsi_GER
    791 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    You mention plane spawn times very often in your argumentations. That's not the fault of the Fliegerfaust or AA in general.
    Maybe you should consider to demand request shorter spawn time instead of nerfing a weapon which is vital to infantry and which currently is balanced quite good (except OHK).


  • fragnstein
    810 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 26
    . You wouldn't learn flying in one day..

    I taught my 8 year old son how to fly in 10 minutes in the practice range, it's not as hard as you make it out to be (on key board and mouse) He's no Heinrich Ehrler, but he can fly around without crashing

    celsi, you "refusing" to learn kb&m is silly, it really is super easy. Using a joystick to fly is like using a controller as infantry, much less accurate
  • xKusagamix
    1161 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    It's not like Infantry could always know where the heck will some rockets at hundreds of meters away could kill them anyway. And and even if you know, what could you do if you're not playing as an Assault anyway? Throw some rock at them?

    I don't see how it's even an issue if some random bush could take you out anyway. It's kinda fair.
  • Celsi_GER
    791 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 26
    fragnstein wrote: »
    . You wouldn't learn flying in one day..
    celsi, you "refusing" to learn kb&m is silly, it really is super easy. Using a joystick to fly is like using a controller as infantry, much less accurate

    Yes, I know. Even in BF4 times, when I still was a decent pilot, the people flying with bk&m often outmanoeuvred me because it was more accurate.
    In English language there is a proverb about old dogs and new tricks, I think it applies to me quite accurately.
    I prefer(red) to give up flying instead of learning to fly with kb&m. From the 8 people I frequently play with, only 1 still takes a plane every now and then, and he is not doing it very well (hope hed doesn't read this here :D)

    Post edited by Celsi_GER on
  • Tip_the_Cap
    416 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Pilots crying. 😅🤣😅🤣
  • AngrySquid270
    134 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 27
    trip1ex said:
     being a dedicated FF soldier is playing the objective.  someone needs to take out the planes.  
    Do you consider the guys sitting around in the MAA/SAA all match to be playing the objective?   

    Engaging planes with the FF and actively trying to capture/defend specific objectives aren't mutually exclusive.
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