How do you guys feel about there not being anymore all kit weapons?

Comments

  • B3ANTOWN__B3A5T
    4364 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Wouldn't all-kit weaponry be something that dumbs the game down?

    I want to use this and that gadget but I don't like the weapons that kit has so I can just switch out to a carbine.

    I don't know I'm not really on either side here. I wouldn't really care if BAs were all kit and I'm perfectly fine with there being no more all kit weapons.

    No- because ALL KIT enables you to use X type of weapon, with A, B, C, or D type of class, then you can. That includes benefiting from all gadgets that A/B/C/D have.

    But If you eliminate ALL KIT weapons, then you can only access weapon X by using Kit A.

    See how it eliminates variation ?

    I think I'll like having more rigid classes. BAs being the one exception just because of how widespread they were in the war.
  • Loqtrall
    12020 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 2016

    No- because ALL KIT enables you to use X type of weapon, with A, B, C, or D type of class. It also then allows you to benefit from all the gadgets that A/B/C/D have.

    But If you eliminate ALL KIT weapons, then you can only access weapon X by using Class A, and you can only use the gadgets tied to Class A.

    See how it eliminates variation? It absolutely destroys variation.

    ^ Proof that the guy is just shoving "variation" in to everyone's arguments.

    Beantown asks "Wouldn't all-kit weapons dumb down the game?" - and his response is explaining how getting rid of all-kit weapons "eliminates variation".

    The guy's entire argument hinges on his opinion that increased variation = good.
  • Rotank
    981 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Rotank wrote: »
    Rotank wrote: »
    Dude...under no circumstances, does the act of removing ALL KIT ever INCREASE variation.

    All it does is DECREASE variation, and make for a dumbed down version of battlefield.

    Dedicated classes = less variation

    What's so hard to understand about that?

    Why do you want to play a dumbed down game? you've backed yourself into a corner.

    You say you support dedicated classes, but that you're not talking about variation. The very NOTION of a dedicated class, explicitly means that variation has been sacrificed.

    Then you say you like it like this, because it eliminates the unknown, as you don't have to worry about other classes so much, because you know their strengths and weaknesses, just by seeing their uniforms/class.


    This is dumbing the game down. It eliminates variation. Removes thought. It's just dumb...


    You like dumbed down games. Just say that next time. It's less wasted time for both of us.

    All kit weapons does the opposite of creating variety as it waters down the class system and provides every player a jack-of-all-trades skill set. Case in point: 52 out of 64 players on op locker running shotguns is lacking variety. All support and recon players running c4 is lacking variety.

    Because all kits have access to the same weaponry, it allows all kits to adjust to every situation in a similar manner. Which is why you get support and engineer kits contributing to the hill humpers with dmrs on Golmud.

    In BF1, because each specialized class also specializes in a unique weapon class with no overlap between the classes, BF1 will have more variety on the battlefield than BF4 does on the vast majority of its maps.

    False. You're making broad generalizations that are patently false.

    Theres plenty of Recon's that run with Close Quarter load outs, mid range, as well as long range. You're just making stuff up.

    There's nothing to make up. The fact that there is so much overlap between classes in BF4, means that there is more potential for duplication and redundancy than in a game like BF2, where there are clearly defined boundaries between class weaponry.

    False.

    The ability to use ALL KIT increases class variation.

    It's the only way to achieve certain load outs.

    Duh...

    Unless you see a lot of Assault Clases using the TUGs. Do you?

    Oh you don't. Cuz they cant.

    But a recon can run recon gadgets plus assault-like weapons.

    Under no circumstances, does removing variation, increase variation. Did you guys all fail math/stats or what?

    You touting the word "variety" over and over again is meaningless and does not make you sound intelligent. You are seeking customization for the sake of doing whatever you want in the game without limitations. But that in and of itself does not add variety to the gameplay.

    To your point, a recon with tugs and a carbine and support with ammo and a carbine creates less GAMEPLAY variety and is more "dumbed down" (to use your own words) than a recon with a BA and a support with an LMG.

    Restricting classes by weapon types, then creating variation between those weapon types (which is what we will have in BF1), will create far more variety in practical application within individual matches than what we have currently in BF4.
  • Rev0verDrive
    6722 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited June 2016
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I recall this is a military based shooter.?.?

    But you have to admit that when any specific class/role can play like just about any other class/role without being limited to its gadget restraints is kind cool. /sarcasm

    At the end of the day DICE made a change. You either nut up or shut up.
  • H-Hour_Absolute
    462 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited June 2016
    Rotank wrote: »
    Rotank wrote: »
    Rotank wrote: »
    Dude...under no circumstances, does the act of removing ALL KIT ever INCREASE variation.

    All it does is DECREASE variation, and make for a dumbed down version of battlefield.

    Dedicated classes = less variation

    What's so hard to understand about that?

    Why do you want to play a dumbed down game? you've backed yourself into a corner.

    You say you support dedicated classes, but that you're not talking about variation. The very NOTION of a dedicated class, explicitly means that variation has been sacrificed.

    Then you say you like it like this, because it eliminates the unknown, as you don't have to worry about other classes so much, because you know their strengths and weaknesses, just by seeing their uniforms/class.


    This is dumbing the game down. It eliminates variation. Removes thought. It's just dumb...


    You like dumbed down games. Just say that next time. It's less wasted time for both of us.

    All kit weapons does the opposite of creating variety as it waters down the class system and provides every player a jack-of-all-trades skill set. Case in point: 52 out of 64 players on op locker running shotguns is lacking variety. All support and recon players running c4 is lacking variety.

    Because all kits have access to the same weaponry, it allows all kits to adjust to every situation in a similar manner. Which is why you get support and engineer kits contributing to the hill humpers with dmrs on Golmud.

    In BF1, because each specialized class also specializes in a unique weapon class with no overlap between the classes, BF1 will have more variety on the battlefield than BF4 does on the vast majority of its maps.

    False. You're making broad generalizations that are patently false.

    Theres plenty of Recon's that run with Close Quarter load outs, mid range, as well as long range. You're just making stuff up.

    There's nothing to make up. The fact that there is so much overlap between classes in BF4, means that there is more potential for duplication and redundancy than in a game like BF2, where there are clearly defined boundaries between class weaponry.

    False.

    The ability to use ALL KIT increases class variation.

    It's the only way to achieve certain load outs.

    Duh...

    Unless you see a lot of Assault Clases using the TUGs. Do you?

    Oh you don't. Cuz they cant.

    But a recon can run recon gadgets plus assault-like weapons.

    Under no circumstances, does removing variation, increase variation. Did you guys all fail math/stats or what?

    You touting the word "variety" over and over again is meaningless and does not make you sound intelligent. You are seeking customization for the sake of doing whatever you want in the game without limitations. But that in and of itself does not add variety to the gameplay.

    this has nothing to do with intelligence; it has to do with facts. The removal of a variable, is by definition, forcing a convergence of "a constant state" which is, by definition, not variable.
    To your point, a recon with tugs and a carbine and support with ammo and a carbine creates less GAMEPLAY variety and is more "dumbed down" (to use your own words) than a recon with a BA and a support with an LMG.

    thats patently false. Its not even close to being true.
    Restricting classes by weapon types, then creating variation between those weapon types (which is what we will have in BF1), will create far more variety in practical application within individual matches than what we have currently in BF4.

    Haha, right.

    Because when only one class has SMG weapons, you have 'SO MUCH' variation...lol

    If you want to use a SMG, not only will you be restricted to one single class, but you'll also be restricted to that class's gadgets. Furthermore, because you sacrifice the gadget's of another class (say, C4), then you are no longer a threat to certain opponents (say...most vehicles in the game).

    It's a full elimination of variation.


    This is the dumbest argument I've ever been in.


  • H-Hour_Absolute
    462 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited June 2016
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I recall this is a military based shooter.?.?

    But you have to admit that when any specific class/role can play like just about any other class/role without being limited to its gadget restraints is kind cool. /sarcasm


    At the end of the day DICE made a change. You either nut up or shut up.

    If there's ANYTHING that Dice has taught us, it's that they value our input, and frequently make changes.

    CTE is a great example.

    Dice games are VERY evolutionary, by design.
  • Rotank
    981 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member


    This is the dumbest argument I've ever been in.


    I agree, you are incredibly obtuse and respond to every point with "nu uh".
  • H-Hour_Absolute
    462 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited June 2016
    Rotank wrote: »


    This is the dumbest argument I've ever been in.


    I agree, you are incredibly obtuse and respond to every point with "nu uh".

    How else can I respond, when a group of people think that a constant = a variable?

    I can't wait for all the variation in BF1 lol!!
    Want an SMG? Your ONLY option is assault.

    SO MUCH VARIATION!!!

    Lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Post edited by H-Hour_Absolute on
  • Rev0verDrive
    6722 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    You don't want the cons of a "specialized role" to have an effect on your play style. You want dominance in all situations.

    Variation: a change or difference in condition, amount, or level, typically with certain limits.

    Variant Classes : meaning distinct differences between the others. Having a difference in role.
  • H-Hour_Absolute
    462 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited June 2016
    You don't want the cons of a "specialized role" to have an effect on your play style. You want dominance in all situations.

    Variation: a change or difference in condition, amount, or level, typically with certain limits.

    Variant Classes : meaning distinct differences between the others. Having a difference in role.

    When everyone is running Assault, because it's the only way to use a SMG, you will have no variation.
      --You sacrifice weapon variation; --You sacrifice gadget variation; --And you sacrifice class variation.

    Everyone will be running distinctly separate classes, but as a result, variation itself will be sacrificed.

  • Rev0verDrive
    6722 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    I highly doubt everyone will be running assault. We aren't talking about AR's with medbags here. PDW's and tank nades !!!! SMG's so far have crazy spread outside its effective range. LMG's/semi and auto rifles are going to be wrecking assaults at medium range. You know flag to flag distances where AR's in BF4 crush. SMG's and shotguns are only effective in CQC range.
  • H-Hour_Absolute
    462 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    I mean, make no mistake- I'm pumped!!

    I'm gonna run either Assault or Medic, just about 24/7

    Even if the spread is crazy now, we know they'll probably balance it, IF it really is a pain.
  • DarkFlame588
    290 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    I'm all for more specialized class roles, and having the need to adapt new play styles when wanting to use X weapon type or Y class.
  • B3ANTOWN__B3A5T
    4364 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    I hope support will get to keep c4.
  • Rev0verDrive
    6722 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    I hope support will get to keep c4.

    tnt satchels are in the game. For what class I cannot remember.
  • DarkFlame588
    290 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Assault probably, as it is taking on the anti-vehicle role.
  • B3ANTOWN__B3A5T
    4364 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Assault probably, as it is taking on the anti-vehicle role.

    I'd be sad if I lost my TnT. Been heavily playing support since BF3. Love the class.
  • DarkFlame588
    290 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Oh, I feel you, I'm losing Engi...
  • B3ANTOWN__B3A5T
    4364 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Oh, I feel you, I'm losing Engi...

    Not really it's just renamed assault. They still have good CQ weapons and most of the anti-tank stuff.
  • VenomRTX
    114 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Assault probably, as it is taking on the anti-vehicle role.

    I'd be sad if I lost my TnT. Been heavily playing support since BF3. Love the class.

    I can't say I'd be sad if they remove explosive satchels from the infinite ammo class :P
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