Weekly Debrief

Has anyone ever solved this? (netcode)

Comments

  • TrueEmissary
    28 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Interesseting. I'm using a X-Fi Titanium too, driven by Daniel-K drivers.
    Allthoug i'm not rly a professional regarding PC-stuff, but how can a seperate soundcard causing conflicts with the NIC? I can understand, if cheap implemented, onboard sound causes conflicts with the onboard NIC, but a seperate card should go entirely different ways (IRQ, etc...).

    Anyway, i hope you find something, because we both suffer from quite similar problems.
  • Sk1lld
    554 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    As mentioned above, this appears to be on your end "Not a stick at you, really!" if the problem was prevelant I would have expected a large response.

    It's just a mater of process of elimination. Remove the NIC drivers and reboot. Let windows install it's own then test, same with sound drivers and retest, try selective start up and play "Is the problem gone?" then it is a process running in the back round. Etc.

    Good luck, these kinds of issues can be a real pain to sort.
  • Rroff24
    140 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    ^^ I know its not a problem that effects most people - but I've seen the odd complaint of identical behaviour there are 2-3 on the EA forums if I can find them again and to quote someone else from another forum:
    titaniumx3 wrote:
    The netcode in this game is completely ******** (intentionally or not). I've been having some weird lag issues ever since I first started playing the game. It's not normal lag, but more like everything is out of sync, as if I was seeing everything a good 500ms or so later than every one else.

    The main symptom of this was that other players would seem to have rediculously good reactions, killing me pretty much on sight and with rediculous efficiency. This wasn't just the odd player here and there (which is perfectly normal), but the vast majority of players, even crappy players with rubbish KD ratios were getting the upper hand on me. I'm not the best player in the world, but I've been playing BF since the golden days of BF2 and I generally hover in the 2 to 3 K/D ratio, but in BF4 I was just getting decimated. I couldn't figure out why as my internet connection was quite good (Sky 40mb/10mb) and I got 5 to 10 ms pings on most British servers. I did read up on the netcode issues in BF3/4 and problems other people were having, but apart from that I genuinely thought I was just not that good anymore and had lost my edge. :(

    Anyway, recently I decided to change my ISP from Sky Fibre to BT Infinity 2 for other reasons. Had not played BF4 in a fair bit so decided to fire it up the other night and was absolutely shocked at what I was experiencing. Everything was the same apart from the fact every player I came across was way easier to kill. Its like I had a second of buffer or something before they started shooting. I genuinely felt like I was using hacks. This was on the same servers I've always played on and the only thing I changed was my ISP and probably the latest patch. Funny thing was my ping had now increased by at least 10ms.

    Has anyone experienced anything similar or is this just a massive coincidence? Either way, I feel somewhat vindicated and the game is a lot more fun now. :p

    Only swapping between different ISPs makes no difference for me - there seems to be some little gremlin somewhere that is affecting only a small number of players but finding it is another matter :|
  • Rroff24
    140 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    Interesseting. I'm using a X-Fi Titanium too, driven by Daniel-K drivers.
    Allthoug i'm not rly a professional regarding PC-stuff, but how can a seperate soundcard causing conflicts with the NIC? I can understand, if cheap implemented, onboard sound causes conflicts with the onboard NIC, but a seperate card should go entirely different ways (IRQ, etc...).

    Anyway, i hope you find something, because we both suffer from quite similar problems.

    I don't think it is a conflict between the soundcard and NIC or otherwise it would likely manifest as high DPC latency in ndis.sys.

    If there is still remnants of the old Creative sound rendering path (for X-RAM, etc.) in the engine its possible something is glitchy there which is causing some kind of synchronisation issue but its a long shot and I'm not even certain the old sound routines are there except for the fact that when the game was released with all the sound bugs the X-Fi cards were exhibiting different behaviour to all other sound devices.
  • Rroff24
    140 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    edited February 2017
    Thanks to those who took the time to reply - its quite frustrating.

    Had a few replies elsewhere that the only thing that fixed it for them was upgrading from Windows 7 to 8 or 10 and the person I quoted above based on their posting history appears to have upgraded to 8 around the time they switched internet connection so possibly what resolved it in their case. Unfortunately I have reasons to stay with Windows 7 for now so not something I can test until I get around to setting up a dual boot with 10.
  • Sk1lld
    554 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited February 2017
    msrp24 wrote: »
    Thanks to those who took the time to reply - its quite frustrating.

    Had a few replies elsewhere that the only thing that fixed it for them was upgrading from Windows 7 to 8 or 10.

    Hmmm, intresting.

    Windows 8, 8.1 and 10 handle the processor differently. Core parking is no longer and issue with these Operating systems. But is an issue with Win 7

    Also Win 7 handles CMSS in sound differently than win 10, which has been the bane of many creative users. Win 10 also doesn't reserve as much bandwidth to the audio process.

    Hope you find an answer.

    P.S. Thought I should add, I had stability issues with Creative drivers in the past and stopped using their drivers.

    I switched to DanialK drivers and never looked back. I don't know If he is still doing Creative drivers, but it's worth a look.

  • Rroff24
    140 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    edited February 2017
    I haven't completely written off it being related to core parking - on both my i7 desktop and i7 laptop I get significant stuttering when BF4 gets busy if I don't disable core parking - you might have inadvertently hit the nail on the head but I'm not really in a position to test that without buying a load of different hardware.

    I don't think it is down to Creative stuff actually - as I'd forgotten that I get the same thing on my laptop as well which doesn't have a Creative card - though my 2 desktop systems do have X-Fis.
  • C4u-bomber
    20 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    I've been struggling with these issues as well. Tried all kinds of tweaks, drivers and hardware. I got an Asus Xonar sound card though. I upgraded Win7 to Win10 earlier today, and I'm in the process to see if it helps. But I just had two crappy rounds...felt like being 250ms behind.

    At this point I'm pretty sure my problems are triggered by network issues, as some servers seems a lot worse, even though ping and country is the same (usually 15-50ms). Which is why I stay away from BF1, as I have had nothing but bad experiences with EA servers (CTE, betas).

  • Rroff24
    140 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    While its obvious some of the dedicated server boxes are overloaded I don't think that is the issue for me as its no better or worse on any server - some servers are laggier than others but this isn't like that.
  • C4u-bomber
    20 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited February 2017
    msrp24 wrote: »
    With less than 20-30 players and all players below ~70-75ms latency its like the game is running me half a second ahead of every one - I do really well, as soon as someone with a higher ping joins or the player load creeps over around 30 it suddenly switches as if I'm half a second behind anyone else...

    Maybe I wasn't clear, but this is my problem on some servers too. The game feels out of sync. Walk into a room with three enemy players, no one seems to notice you for half a second. Do it again later in the game, you won't even get to the door. If I had to guess, it sounds like something to do with lag compensation going nuts. To try to even the odds, maybe the game adds a delay for low ping players. If it adds too little, you're ahead, too much you're behind. I'm sure it's more complicated than this. But if this is the case, I have two questions. What makes it go nuts? And why even try to compensate for half a second? I would prefer to be kicked from the server...

    EDIT: btw...there used to be a few threads discussing this issue on the old battlelog forums. No solution though...
    Post edited by C4u-bomber on
  • Rroff24
    140 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    edited February 2017
    It isn't adding lag for low pingers as such but I can tell you what is happening there - and its very bad and wrong - the game tries to contrive a balanced (like 50/50 even when it isn't) compromise outcome in backwards reconciliation between 2 clients even with a massive latency difference - it might sound fair on paper but in reality its an idiotic idea and hence 90% of game engines out there specifically do not do it that way. All it does is reduce the impact of skill in the game, make an insignificant difference for someone with a higher ping who is going to realise they are at a disadvantage any way and noticeably impact negatively on players who do have a low latency connection.

    Given that the game shipped with "10Hz" "netcode" though its not really surprising.

    Battlenonsense touches on it in one of his videos where he asks why they do it that way when it just makes the game a worse experience for say 40 out of the 45 players in a game and has tiny benefit for the other 5.

    Regarding the "netcode" going nuts - it almost feels like is threading different bits and not always syncing them up at 30Hz or whatever but sometimes trying to roll it all in together every second or so instead contriving things to fit some kind of outcome when it can't do it by "dead reckoning" or whatever.
  • NOVA-GOA
    281 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited February 2017
    Ever run the net graph? If not please do and post pics. Ask what GSP you were playing in. Post different servers.

    Also please post pics of your cpu gpu graph chart from same servers in tandem with net graph. If you can do video that would be great too.
  • Rroff24
    140 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    edited February 2017
    While I've mostly played on the same server since coming back to the game (I quit playing for about a year because it was so frustrating) I've played on a lot of different EU and UK servers so its not in any way related to a specific GSP.

    I'll get some video later but there is nothing unusual on the netgraph AFAIK - I've not exhaustively looked at the more advanced numbers (partly because its a bit misleading as many BF4 servers seem to struggle a bit these days anyway) but the basic network quality numbers show reasonable latency/latency variation, no packetloss, etc. it also doesn't really highlight the issue very well either as its something you have to feel as much as see - aside from instances of like losing constantly to a low skill player who is using a weapon with like half the DPS, etc. while I'm near the top of the scoreboard.
  • Rroff24
    140 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    Quick video
  • Sk1lld
    554 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    msrp24 wrote: »
    Quick video

    Still don't have an answer, just wanted to say.

    That video was great. That was some good/smart playing. The flanking in that video was superb.

    Wish I was that good.
  • NOVA-GOA
    281 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited February 2017
    msrp24 wrote: »
    Quick video

    your CPU and GPU lines are fine.

    according to your network graph the colored lines are pretty wide meaning high from the bottom. one thing of concern is the server tickrate. it's above the 30 hz line and its the main indicator of lag between you and the players. the higher the number the more you will feel like they see you first or the i shot him first but he killed me feeling.

    also the server offset is what you see on your screen that differs from the server which is pretty high and above the tickrate of 30hz. so this in combination with the server tick is what is giving you the experience you are getting. i play mostly TDM/DOM and i see servers with those lines really high from the bottom or spread out and have similar issues of WTF playing it. you want a server so that those lines are close to the bottom besides the grey line and you will a better playing experience. anything spiking above that line also is not good.

    its server issue as most GSP jam many games on one server or that their servers are taxed out like gameserver servers have these issues a lot. i usually rent from fragnet as they have great hardware and not many performance issues as other GSP companies. again 60hz server will play better. thanks for the video.
  • Rroff24
    140 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    edited February 2017
    It isn't just a GSP/Server issue - I don't just play on that server (though I've mostly played on it recently since coming back to the game) - I've been having the issue since release (though strangely it wasn't really an issue in the BF4 beta) and on all Frostbite 3 engine games since like Battlefront and hardline and BF1 betas.

    60Hz doesn't make any difference infact tends to highlight the issue more because other players seem to have even more insane reactions because its probably working better for them - the video doesn't really highlight that as mostly I had the upper hand on people - always seems to be the way when I try to get a bit of video possibly because I'm subconsciously thinking about what I'm doing more when recording.

    The only thing that makes a difference is if the player load is under 20-30 and every player has <70-75ms latency and then suddenly its like I'm ahead of the game and everyone is moaning about me cheating because the situation is reversed and I'm killing them on their screen almost before I've come around a corner, etc. if a single player joins with like a 230ms ping its back to other people seeming to have a massive head start on me.
  • NOVA-GOA
    281 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    msrp24 wrote: »
    It isn't just a GSP/Server issue - I don't just play on that server (though I've mostly played on it recently since coming back to the game) - I've been having the issue since release (though strangely it wasn't really an issue in the BF4 beta) and on all Frostbite 3 engine games since like Battlefront and hardline and BF1 betas.

    60Hz doesn't make any difference infact tends to highlight the issue more because other players seem to have even more insane reactions because its probably working better for them - the video doesn't really highlight that as mostly I had the upper hand on people - always seems to be the way when I try to get a bit of video possibly because I'm subconsciously thinking about what I'm doing more when recording.

    The only thing that makes a difference is if the player load is under 20-30 and every player has <70-75ms latency and then suddenly its like I'm ahead of the game and everyone is moaning about me cheating because the situation is reversed and I'm killing them on their screen almost before I've come around a corner, etc. if a single player joins with like a 230ms ping its back to other people seeming to have a massive head start on me.

    i would assume it to be the load on the server. like i said before find a server with the lines on the netgraph that are lower. test it out and see. we have a server up that no one plays in but if you know anyone direct them to it and test it. its based in chicago feel free to join anytime.

    http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/servers/show/pc/fc19b9b4-4569-42e6-97b5-d1c78b094ccb/XE-HARDCORE/
  • TheRealFreakshow
    4 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    edited February 2017
    Make sure you have the network optimization turned off within the in-game settings.

    Now, pick up your telephone, press a button so the dial tone goes away... and just listen. Do you hear ANY static or cracking noises? If so, call your telephone provider and tell them, and they will fix it... at least, here in America, they will. This used to make night and day differences when I had dial up.
  • Ggballday414
    625 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    I have lag issues on PS4 as well, and T1 internet. I have to constantly test the lobby for lead / delay before placing accurate shots. Sometimes, when just getting into a different lobby finding the sweet spot is difficult.
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