Hit Detection

Comments

  • lizzard
    985 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Im not argueing. I giving my opinion just like everybody else. Maybe some peolple english isnt their native language so therefore it could sound more brutal then intended. Cte is just so easy accepted. Game runs like crap. No worries. Just sell iy and we will test it months later. Maybe finish and test a game better before selling

    Its like buying a new car. The car runs lije crap and i can come back 6 months later and pay a fee and then my car will get tested. Nice logic. Guess im too old to understand. Ive been hearing since about codimg and fixes since bfcbc2. The first bf game on the frostbite engine which is tje problem of this game. In bf2 bf1943 bf1942 we didnt have these probens. Remember those games. Most do not. Since the frostbite it all began. Beem almost 10 years so yes IM SCEPTICAL. Its just too bad because BF is the best shooter in its genre this is why in si upset about it. Its becoming worse every new title.

    All again not angry at all or conftontotional to someone. Dont like my opinion. No problem. I wont lose sleep over it. :smile:

    But then again.. We know why that person just had to reply to you, with that kind of statement..

    Out of 20 guys on my friends list, that have played bf titles since bad company. I think 2 have considered to buy premium..

    No sane person would ever invest in premium in a game delivered by dice, not after bf4!
  • Immortal_0neShot
    384 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    lizzard wrote: »
    Im not argueing. I giving my opinion just like everybody else. Maybe some peolple english isnt their native language so therefore it could sound more brutal then intended. Cte is just so easy accepted. Game runs like crap. No worries. Just sell iy and we will test it months later. Maybe finish and test a game better before selling

    Its like buying a new car. The car runs lije crap and i can come back 6 months later and pay a fee and then my car will get tested. Nice logic. Guess im too old to understand. Ive been hearing since about codimg and fixes since bfcbc2. The first bf game on the frostbite engine which is tje problem of this game. In bf2 bf1943 bf1942 we didnt have these probens. Remember those games. Most do not. Since the frostbite it all began. Beem almost 10 years so yes IM SCEPTICAL. Its just too bad because BF is the best shooter in its genre this is why in si upset about it. Its becoming worse every new title.

    All again not angry at all or conftontotional to someone. Dont like my opinion. No problem. I wont lose sleep over it. :smile:

    But then again.. We know why that person just had to reply to you, with that kind of statement..

    Out of 20 guys on my friends list, that have played bf titles since bad company. I think 2 have considered to buy premium..

    No sane person would ever invest in premium in a game delivered by dice, not after bf4!

    Yes my friends thoughts also and mine too. Guess lots op people think this way this is why they are giving deluxe edition if you buy premium.

    And yes i know what you mean with the reply. Its so obvious. We know why.
  • mmarkweII
    2919 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    It comes down to 2 different types of people IMO. Either you want to just cry about the game and not help fix it (for whatever reason) or you are the type to understand the issues and help to fix them ( because gaming is a hobby and you don't mind taking the time to help out) because there are lots of other things in this world you can throw your time and energy to. Just my .02. :)
  • oJU5T1No
    901 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Unfortunately I brought premium before christmas when the latency issues weren't too bad and I could still find playable matches, hopefully most the connection issues will be fixed for the first dlc so I haven't wasted my money.
  • lizzard
    985 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    mmarkweII wrote: »
    It comes down to 2 different types of people IMO. Either you want to just cry about the game and not help fix it (for whatever reason) or you are the type to understand the issues and help to fix them ( because gaming is a hobby and you don't mind taking the time to help out) because there are lots of other things in this world you can throw your time and energy to. Just my .02. :)

    Or they could only give cte access, to veterans.. Like the veteran dogtag system.. In that way they would target the appropriate audience!

    Testing future dlc isnt what cte should be used for.. Cte should focus on testing future patches to the core game!

    It should not give anyone early access to dlc..
    Only early access to patches and tweaks to the core game and gameplay.
    Gamemodes.
    Weapons. Etc.


    @mischkag
    Good news! Really like the sound of this.

    Sad that it will take some time before its active.

    Teambalance would need some love to...
    Have to many games /evening, where me and my friends try to cap / hold flags. And that flag is the only flag our team have..

    Cap first flag alone.

    Move up with team. Cap flag.

    Move up alone. Cap flag.

    Look at map. First flag being lost! No teammates there.

    Run back. Kill enemies. Cap flag.

    See that second flag being lost! Entire team is outside cap zone..

    Run to second flag. Kill enemies and cap flag, while friendly team stands around and knifing eatchother while they t bag the ground...

    Add lag. Por hittdetektion. To this, and it becomes a nightmare!
  • oJU5T1No
    901 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    I think the broken team balance is more a latency related problem, no 1 can play to there skill stat level when your up against a bunch of teleporting bullet sponges lagging you out the game most players in that situation just think F it and rage quit or just give up with the objectives and hide up somewhere and wait it out, the game is connection>skill the team balancer assumes skill>everything it won't matter how much they tweak the skill based team balancing because skill is meaning less in this game its connection>everything.

    @mischkag if you really have made it harder for 100ms+ ping players then great for us low pingers, but prepare for the hate and rage thats gonna come from them high latency players as they lose there advantage and there precious k/ds start to fall as they realise there not as good at the game when they don't have a connection advantage. I doubt MS and Sony would let you kick high jitter players on consoles but long as by lagging around there only ruining there own experience of the game and not everyone elses on that server then it doesn't really matter leave them to it.
  • Immortal_0neShot
    384 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited February 2017
    mischkag wrote: »
    CTE is not just a platform for testing existing maps and the base game, but also provide access to new expansions early to get feedback and such. I do agree that you should be able to participate on CTE, but you also have to understand that there the reasoning that it is only open to players who want to invest in the longer term aka purchasing premium. I get your hate/rants etc. I also believe that on the CTE anything netcode related wont be a real hardcore test as you need players with poor connections to see what has improved. Those do rather not participate in the CTE. It proved extremely valuable in the past. I finished the implementation of a server side hit detection for players over 100ms ping. It is so much harder now for them. If it all works out, this will be part of the spring patch. As mentioned before, i cannot agree more with ping caps and stuff, but it is a time consuming process.
    As far as suggestions go with disconnecting players with poor pings etc. Imagine your machine has a stall (PC). This is to some degree to the server the same as poor networking connection. Would you like to get disconnected? I have to see how the internal development for ping caps go. If it does not look like it is gonna happen, i have to explore to what degree we can kick players if their ping jitters too much. A high ping per se just results in delayed applied damage, but they are still easy enough to kill (just like anybody else really). But a highly jittery ping stresses any type of lag compensation to the degree that low pingers have a harder time to kill this very player. This will be much more damped soon, but still. At least for rented servers, something will be available.
    I wish i would have participated much earlier and more in the forums for the past BF games.

    Ive been with the BF franchise since day one. longer before the majority here heard about the game Battlefield.(not meant to be rude) and not with this account alone obvious.

    In my book you can also see this as long term investment, just because I didnt buy premium this game has all to do with BF4 and its struggle.

    This is not at you at all but maybe DICE can be a little more understanding and forgiving to the "old" community, not every investment has to be money related:):) Loyality is just as important IMO.

    I see CoD users new to the franchise and BF1 is their first game streaming BF1 and seeing them in the BF1 main nenu with vids like tips etcetc. those people wil have access to CTE, hell 1 year ago they were mocking BF on the same YT channel. Just becauss they have subs their accepted. I just dont understand that.

    The older community has been let down over and over with comments like the pc community cant mod BF because the engine is to complex and then people started modding and it rained excuses. Devs like Zpinto mocking the community saying no input lag excisted in BF3 and 365 days later he was so sorry and a patch finally came for HDMI televisions and many other examples pre BF3. Same with BF4, first 7 months we as a community heard that the servers were fine and it was all on our end.

    I sound angry but im not, its just the way I type. I love BF but I hate what is has become.

    Most of the problems are the Frostbite engine. all thse problems we are having werent in BF titles without the Frostbite engine. Even a DEV on the BFBC2 forums mentioned that the engine suffered from memory leaks and when people started commenting on that thread, it was deleted. not closed but deleted by a community manager who left that day too:P

    The post above my i agree with him, I doubt Sony/ MS can let you kick high jitter players too, especially when they dont have their own servers. you are basicly forcing them to play OOR and when they do you are punishing them.


    Post edited by Immortal_0neShot on
  • denjoga
    607 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    @mischkag - Out of curiosity, can you explain why I sometimes "lost connection to server"?
    It has only happened to me a handful of times since the game launched, so very rare.
    Do I lose connection because of a problem on my end or on the server end or maybe it can be either?

    I ask because, as someone w/ a fast and stable connection (Net performance graph averages <30ms ping and 0 packet loss) who still occasionally (rarely) loses connection to the server, if I had a lower quality, less reliable connection, I would expect to lose connection more often.

    Point is, people with poor quality connections (however that is defined) should not be surprised if they are regularly disconnected from servers.
    Sure, there'll be lots of angry people blaming the game - just ask them to show their network performance graph and then show them that the problem is theirs, not the game's.
  • KingTolapsium
    5491 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    To those who belive they are entitled to cte, as mischkag has said, cte is not going to be the best place to test for these issues. We need really bad connections to truly test the netcode.

    CTE is not just the dustpan fixing problems left over from development.

    Seeing as Dice is managing to release a test environment without upsetting EA or the marketing/financial office, I think it's a bit obvious why certain concessions were made.

    Being a full series veteran is cool, but it doesn't entitle you to anything. I'm not trying to offend you, as you aren't trying to offend me, but realistically this is an entertainment product, not a men's league.
  • Immortal_0neShot
    384 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    No offense taken. I was just trying to say there are different ways of investment. Not just money wise but also time and patience and loyalty to a Brand or franchise.

    And people who invest in that way determine if a brand or franchise will be succesfull. I say again im not trying to insult anybody. Sometimes i come here after a few games and im still a bit angry about the WTF moments and i will vent too much haha.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    It makes perfect sense to only allow premium players to be in CTE. They have a vested interest to go in and provide feedback through the proper channels. Not just go on for the joy.

    Also given that there will only be a limited number of servers, this provides crowd control and limit frustration since there won't be a queue of 30 on the server.

    So a newbiw for example who got bf1 with premium for xmas has more interest to put feedback in then players who are with the franchise sincse day 1 so people without premium just go in for the joy. LoL.

    Make cte ps4 pro only theyhave invested more in hardware so the loading times will be faster and better hardware can lead to more strain for testing. Same logic.

    Most people didnt but premium because of bf4 and think that they game shoukd be premium worthy first before buying it.

    All my opinion. To be honest this whole cte wont change anytihng ping wise.

    As long ad dice and ea lack server support and there fore forces people out of their region bringing highrr ping sony and ms will say put more servers online before beginning with ping limits i think.

    We will see what cte will bring. Hope what we want but im scepticwl because its been 5 year or so and ive heard all excuses from devs in the book.

    It's no different then people paying and joining a Band's fan club....or a frequent flyer credit card. You pay to get exclusive access and things. And your newbie example is not a best example...in fact it is pretty irrelevant.

    But I can use you as an example. You stated you won't pay, and time and time again you have stated clearly that you are not going to use Dice's preferred way to address issues (reddit). Why allow someone like you on it when you have no interest in helping the cause?
  • KingTolapsium
    5491 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    No offense taken. I was just trying to say there are different ways of investment. Not just money wise but also time and patience and loyalty to a Brand or franchise.

    And people who invest in that way determine if a brand or franchise will be succesfull. I say again im not trying to insult anybody. Sometimes i come here after a few games and im still a bit angry about the WTF moments and i will vent too much haha.

    I understand the frustration, and i appreciate that you understood what I'm saying.

    You might not have free CTE access for your commitment, but look at it this way, you have a devs ear, and he is trying to fix all of the complaints from one loud minority.

    That's huge. :)
  • Immortal_0neShot
    384 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited February 2017
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    It makes perfect sense to only allow premium players to be in CTE. They have a vested interest to go in and provide feedback through the proper channels. Not just go on for the joy.

    Also given that there will only be a limited number of servers, this provides crowd control and limit frustration since there won't be a queue of 30 on the server.

    So a newbiw for example who got bf1 with premium for xmas has more interest to put feedback in then players who are with the franchise sincse day 1 so people without premium just go in for the joy. LoL.

    Make cte ps4 pro only theyhave invested more in hardware so the loading times will be faster and better hardware can lead to more strain for testing. Same logic.

    Most people didnt but premium because of bf4 and think that they game shoukd be premium worthy first before buying it.

    All my opinion. To be honest this whole cte wont change anytihng ping wise.

    As long ad dice and ea lack server support and there fore forces people out of their region bringing highrr ping sony and ms will say put more servers online before beginning with ping limits i think.

    We will see what cte will bring. Hope what we want but im scepticwl because its been 5 year or so and ive heard all excuses from devs in the book.

    It's no different then people paying and joining a Band's fan club....or a frequent flyer credit card. You pay to get exclusive access and things. And your newbie example is not a best example...in fact it is pretty irrelevant.

    But I can use you as an example. You stated you won't pay, and time and time again you have stated clearly that you are not going to use Dice's preferred way to address issues (reddit). Why allow someone like you on it when you have no interest in helping the cause?

    Im not going in to an arguement and i will say only this. The reason i didnt use reddit was of the star wars battlefront debacle. Period. If you tell o ne thing please tell the whole story. And i wont pay because of BF4. If BF1 was in a bettet state than it was now i would gladly pay but now i wont. By the time everything is working as it should the dlc's are free.

    Every example which I or others make you find irrelevant. I wouldnt have expected anything else. Lets leave it at that. We will never see eye to eye and thats ok. Dont want this thread to become toxic.

    @KingTolapsium. Yes im very happy and my frustration isnt pointed at him personally. Im very happy the dev joined tje discussion. I respect that a lot.
  • VBALL_MVP
    6177 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited February 2017
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    It makes perfect sense to only allow premium players to be in CTE. They have a vested interest to go in and provide feedback through the proper channels. Not just go on for the joy.

    Also given that there will only be a limited number of servers, this provides crowd control and limit frustration since there won't be a queue of 30 on the server.

    So a newbiw for example who got bf1 with premium for xmas has more interest to put feedback in then players who are with the franchise sincse day 1 so people without premium just go in for the joy. LoL.

    Make cte ps4 pro only theyhave invested more in hardware so the loading times will be faster and better hardware can lead to more strain for testing. Same logic.

    Most people didnt but premium because of bf4 and think that they game shoukd be premium worthy first before buying it.

    All my opinion. To be honest this whole cte wont change anytihng ping wise.

    As long ad dice and ea lack server support and there fore forces people out of their region bringing highrr ping sony and ms will say put more servers online before beginning with ping limits i think.

    We will see what cte will bring. Hope what we want but im scepticwl because its been 5 year or so and ive heard all excuses from devs in the book.

    It's no different then people paying and joining a Band's fan club....or a frequent flyer credit card. You pay to get exclusive access and things. And your newbie example is not a best example...in fact it is pretty irrelevant.

    But I can use you as an example. You stated you won't pay, and time and time again you have stated clearly that you are not going to use Dice's preferred way to address issues (reddit). Why allow someone like you on it when you have no interest in helping the cause?

    Im not going in to an arguement and i will say only this. The reason i didnt use reddit was of the star wars battlefront debacle. Period. If you tell o ne thing please tell the whole story. Every example which you dont like is irrelevant. I wouldnt have expected anything else. Lets leavr it at that. We will never see eye to eye and thats ok.

    @KingTolapsium. Yes im very happy and my frustration isnt pointed at him personally. Im very happy the dev joined tje discussion. I respect that a lot.

    Well you can see then why CTE shouldn't be for everyone. People who have a vested interest get priorities, this is true in any game. You pay, your deemed that you will be playing much longer than the average gamer. Not to mention you are providing the capital to make the stuff happen.

    I rather it be this way than Dice going to microtransactions.
  • Immortal_0neShot
    384 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited February 2017
    I know people who have premium and already sold the game because they expected more so that theory isnt solid either. I get your point but investment comes in many forms. And tbh i dont think dice and ea need the extra money. I think their bank account can suffer a CTE.

    And yes I agree with the microtransavtions

    Hey we agree on something haha :wink:
  • KingTolapsium
    5491 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    The StarWars debacle is hardly a reason to avoid reddit at all. It was very obvious the devs still harvested feedback from the reddit even if they no longer commented.

    Can we stop comparing the state of BF1 to BF4? It's absolutely ridiculous. Better framerate, next to no crashing, decent server stability (with obvious exceptions), better graphics, better resolution and much better controller and console settings support, BF1 is one of the better games on ps4, I can't say that about bf4 now and at launch it was one of the worst regarding performance.

    The first CTE was NECESSARY for the survival of BF4, and perhaps the franchise, maybe go back and play BF4 right now before pretending like we haven't moved forward.

    CTE should have been free in BF4, and available on all platforms, the game was launched in a disgraceful state. I wouldn't use such harsh words against BF1, we have some hurdles like the aim assist and netcode preventing a smooth, fun, and consistent experience for everyone, but that doesn't equate to anything being broken or unplayable.

    I'll agree we have a few years of netcode frustration to address, but at least the conversation is happening.
  • KingTolapsium
    5491 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited February 2017
    @mischkag

    I think you need to have a look at client-side player movement and collision. I'm noticing what feels almost like rubberbanding, but instead of "snapping" you back to a previous location, you just kinda get stuck. (Ping ~60ms, Variance ~1ms)

    There are times where it feels like my feet are "held" or "caught", sometimes around chairs/objects or stairs, sometimes just bumpy ground. Im not sure it's entirely a network issue, but it makes locomotion frustrating, and it feels like it would be the result of lag (which I'm not suffering from). These issues don't appear obviously without also seeing input, an input HUD overlay would help with this.

    I notice this when getting shot as well (I've attributed this to high ping in the past, not really sure that's the case), seems like your player movement is staggered by taking damage, making it jittery moving forward or strafing while trying to adjust for your next shot. (This is when the 30hz becomes a noticeable inconvenience, close quarters sometimes looks like it's impossible, lending to a feeling that you were ripped off, or not fairly killed).

    The effect of this seems to be compounded be the flinching mechanic (not sure how this affects mouse on pc), which works very weirdly on an analog stick (it seems to ignore any input during the jerk of the flinch only to give control back), this translates to jittery inconsistent control. Not your department, but the issue seems to bleed over.

    I don't like to feel helpless when dying, this contributes heavily to what I constantly refer to as binary combat (get shot>die/Shoot first>victory), having this movement/analog interruption with one aim assist that increases player accuracy and another reducing the target acquisition time makes it feel like there are horrible netcode issues.

    I'm pretty sure there are other problems interacting with the netcode issues making inconsistencies a larger issue than they should be.
    Post edited by KingTolapsium on
  • BOOG1EJUICE66
    57 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Im curious why you can be bipodded and hit a guy 7-10 times with no kill yet you get killed in 2 shots by the same gun from halfway across the map
  • xBigOrangeHeadx
    395 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    @mischkag

    There are times where it feels like my feet are "held" or "caught", sometimes around chairs/objects or stairs, sometimes just bumpy ground. Im not sure it's entirely a network issue, but it makes locomotion frustrating, and it feels like it would be the result of lag (which I'm not suffering from). These issues don't appear obviously without also seeing input, an input HUD overlay would help with this.

    I notice this when getting shot as well (I've attributed this to high ping in the past, not really sure that's the case), seems like your player movement is staggered by taking damage, making it jittery moving forward or strafing while trying to adjust for your next shot. (This is when the 30hz becomes a noticeable inconvenience, close quarters sometimes looks like it's impossible, lending to a feeling that you were ripped off, or not fairly killed).

    It should not be underestimated just how frustrating both these issues are. It constantly feels like I'm fighting the scenery and terrain just to try and move a around. It's either sticky, jittery movement around terrain, Argonne Forest for example, or my avatar feels like he's on roller skates. The latter I get when I exit a building and want to return through the doorway in a hasty 180. The doorway seems to not be where it was and I'm sliding side to side against the wall.

    I have noticed since the beta that getting shot seems to impede soldier movement. It's as if with each bullet hit you become more rooted to the spot till eventually you just can't evade the incoming fire at all. This is enormously frustrating because you feel like you're doing what you need to retreat from the engagement to cover but the game feels like like it is physically stopping your movement. This happens so much I assumed it was by design.

    When it feels like you have to fight the game to get it to obey your input it is awful to play.
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