Hit Detection

Comments

  • mischkag
    214 postsMember, Developer DICE
    What is good netcode worth for a game nobody likes or cares about? The game has to be fun, challenging and drawing players in. Netcode should just work on not be in anybodies way. So you want us to invite players and ask them to watch netflix movies while playing? Right now CTE is a good mixture of players from US and Europe. Why dont you just try it out? If you ask so much about netcode fixes and i tell you that most of them are fixed on CTE right now (besides some server hickups currently), plz go test it first before you claim we dont do anything about it or the wrong things. THX
  • jdbelcher1998
    587 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited February 2017
    FlopTrain wrote: »
    mischkag wrote: »
    As much as Hit detection may annoy a certain amount of players, there are lots of players out there who's main concern is map/team balance, interesting maps and game mechanics and so forth. CTE DOES feature most of the netcode improvements now. Of course I made sure it gets included there. But if it is for you just about low latency environments, the CTE is NOT a perfect test vehicle due to the inherent low volume of players on it and the low amount of servers and server centers which come with it. The first expansion pack will fix most of the netcode issues, but wont enforce low pings yet as mentioned many times.

    You shouldn't need a CTE to test gameplay mechanics, map balance,..etc(things not really affected by netcode). That is stuff Dice/EA should be doing in house BEFORE they release the game!

    The main issues with this franchise, that should always be addressed first..is NETCODE!!! Look back at the forum posts for every Battlefield game since BF3 and tell me what the most posted about issue player's have is? I will save you the time, it is...NETCODE!!!

    Again,..why is Dice not testing in environments with players and connections that are representative of the actual state of the servers, we are playing in?

    Sorry, if I sound demanding but I don't think that this kind of CTE testing is going to contribute to anything getting fixed...Thanks, for your responses!

    One of the biggest problems here is that pretty much everyone in this thread is on console and so we can't test the netcode changes live in CTE—and I've not seen anyone talking about the netcode changes (or even that they're in any way aware of them) when talking about CTE. Why? Because even Battlefield's official communications channels are advertising the CTE as basically a way to play the DLC maps early, and that is extremely frustrating to me. Way too many people are posting videos of the new maps and weapons—Level Cap actually already posted a "guide" for the new behemoth!!—and not enough people are engaging in "gameplay features" or even map balance and layout, let alone other changes such as netcode. This is the one and only reason I was so frustrated to see Premium would be required for access to CTE—even though I always thought Sony would deny access to CTE for PS4 users so it wouldn't matter for me anyway.

    So, @mischkag I realize you have been working hard, basically all on your own, and you are able to see great improvements to the netcode, but months in pretty much everyone you've been engaging in this thread won't be able to see any of these changes until the first XP patch and we won't have access to the CTE until, what did you say, April? And so I can understand @FlopTrain 's frustration because we're still waiting after waiting for years for these kinds of changes to be implemented. Thanks once again for your hard work and continued engagement here.
  • mischkag
    214 postsMember, Developer DICE
    Thank you for your feedback. Indeed console players are having much more of a disadvantage here inspite of being the much bigger player base. On top of running with 'only' 30Hz servers, you also have not yet access to CTE which hopefully comes in March. I made sure my changes are included on CTE and as much as I wanted to put it all into the previous patch, the changes were enormous to the code base and a bit too late for the patch. I will let you know once CTE is live for consoles. It should include everything by then including the server side hit detection for pings over 100ms.
    Thx for your patience.
  • jdbelcher1998
    587 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Thanks! I think some of the bigger YouTubers aren't helping matters by hyping the DLC via the CTE, unfortunately, but that's another story. I look forward to jumping into CTE and participating as best I can when it's up for console. Regardless, I think you've gone above and beyond in this thread with your engagement and I for one am just kind of blown away by it, given how sparse communication has been in the past. So, again (sorry I keep saying it so often): Thanks!
  • KingTolapsium
    5491 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member


    What I originally thought was my soldiers running being slowed down by a netcode spike looks like it was a frame pacing issue, so I did not include it.

    Crouch/prone "cancelling" is very annoying, and sometimes unintentionally standing back up gets you killed.

    Hope the movement "holding" can be addressed, it's hard to show at 30fps, and even harder without corresponding inputs, but feeling like you are held in place to die is awful.

    Thanks for the hardwork, can't wait for a reason to buy premium (console cte ;) ).
  • Immortal_0neShot
    384 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited February 2017
    mischkag wrote: »
    What is good netcode worth for a game nobody likes or cares about? The game has to be fun, challenging and drawing players in. Netcode should just work on not be in anybodies way. So you want us to invite players and ask them to watch netflix movies while playing? Right now CTE is a good mixture of players from US and Europe. Why dont you just try it out? If you ask so much about netcode fixes and i tell you that most of them are fixed on CTE right now (besides some server hickups currently), plz go test it first before you claim we dont do anything about it or the wrong things. THX

    A game is more fun if you actually kill what you hit. Maybe if people hear from other players how great it is it will automaticly draw more people in. Now players get ripped of by selling a game in a region were it isnt even supported by servers. how is that fun for them and for me because they bring higher latency to the table, higher traveltime equals higher latency.

    They will play a few days/ weeks and will think, what a game in a negative way and will never come back.

    BTW I recorded a few clips from the enemy hit 99 with a sniper rifle on the head which couldnt happen, how can I sent them to you because i dont have a Youtube or FB account?
  • Immortal_0neShot
    384 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited February 2017
    ^ This.

    As long as the game engine is the frostbite engine netcode will always be an issue. It all started with BFBC2. The first BF game that ran on the FB1 engine.
  • Antal120
    82 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited February 2017
    @mischkag When you claim that the CTE might be available on console in March, hopefully, do you mean on #XB1, #PS4 or both consoles?

    I ask this because, afaik, the CTE has never hit #PS4 before: Battlefield 4 (PC / Xbox One) and Hardline (PC only).

    Have you guys reached an agreement with Sony?
  • mischkag
    214 postsMember, Developer DICE
    Yes we plan to run it on BOTH consoles.
  • mischkag
    214 postsMember, Developer DICE
    I would really like to see these clips. Any chance you do create a youtube account? May come handy in the future as you seem to be a very passionate gamer and I would appreciate your (visual) feedback once the future patches with all the fixes are out?!
  • KingTolapsium
    5491 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    mischkag wrote: »
    Yes we plan to run it on BOTH consoles.

    Woop woop.
  • Antal120
    82 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited February 2017
    mischkag wrote: »
    Yes we plan to run it on BOTH consoles.

    Thanks Mischkag :smile:
  • KingTolapsium
    5491 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    mischkag wrote: »
    @KingTolapsium: Thanks a lot for your compilation of issues.
    Let me go thru this step by step.

    1. Couldn't move Once Hit at 0:08
    Hard to judge from looking at the video. Is this a rare occasion? Does it happen frequently?
    2. Couldn't shoot once shot
    Same as above. I don't quite see it.
    3. Didn't register Hit at 0:21
    The melee failed to register on the server. Hard to tell if this was due to attacking a high ping player.
    I added the Latency for all players in the Scoreboard for consoles. I will look into this inder what circumstances that fails and see if I can improve it.
    4. Weird hits at 0:30
    You get hit by the guy from the right also. What exactly did u perceive as weird? Sorry i just try to understand better in order to check for possible improvements.
    5. Repeated Damage Flinch at 0:38
    That happens from bullets from other players on your client which are off from what the server has. I addressed that for the first expansion pack patch.
    6. Shaking at 0:46
    I passed that to our QA department as this seems to me like a map setup issue.
    7. Cancelled crouch/prone at 0:58 / 1:05
    The server has a different idea of what your state is and corrects you. That happens when you have significant consecutive input drops. But your connection loks stable. Do you have any more insights when this happens?
    8. Extrapolation thru the ground at 1:12
    I also passed that to our QA department as this seems to me like a map setup issue.
    9. Snagging on Laggy Friendly at 1:17
    You own latency is quite high (136ms). So your simulation is way behind what the server knows about you and the soldier next to you. It then corrects you. A running soldier moves almost 1m in your latency window and if you get too close, the collision mismatch. Not sure what i can do about it other than restricting the ping for servers :)
    10. Snagging on a Log at 1:26
    I also passed that to our QA department as this seems to me like a map setup issue.
    11. Falling thru the map at 1:34
    I also passed that to our QA department as this seems to me like a map setup issue.
    12. Magical Decoy soldier at 1:49
    The soldiers player connection is still alive but failed to send UDP packets to the server for some time so that you can see it keeps looping the running animation but has reached a location which is way off the server. If this happens in the first expansion pack patch, you should be able to kill the soldier and enjoy your kill.

    Thanks again for supporting me with visual evidence.

    1. It seems to be linked to certain players, it's very hard to see, I know. An input overlay is the only thing I can think of to convey this issue properly.

    2. I pulled the trigger right as I first took damage in the back, almost like it cancelled out my shot.

    4. The timing and incoming bullet effects are what is weird, the medic seemed to hit multiple times per bullet. The flinch is also very difficult to counteract when the bullets all hit so close together, seems some rationalization issues cause incoming damage to hit out of time. (It really bothered me in bf4 when bullets became mistimed on delivery, drove me up the wall).

    7. No known trigger, it seems to happen shortly after taking damage, but I've also had it happen at random.

    9. Looks like I missed that.... but this highlights another recent bug.... getting sorted out of region with quickmatch. This was recorded before I tweeted to you about region sorting issues.

    Can't wait to test out some newer code! Also if you need further recordings of any of these I have no problem trying to reproduce.
  • jdbelcher1998
    587 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Just to add to these first two from my own experience (trying to capture these on video and will get those up as soon as I get good footage):

    1. This is a frequent, not occasional (let alone rare), occurrence for me.
    2. This is exactly the same problem I tried to describe above when I mentioned bullets disappearing as soon as I fire my weapon—it seem to be the same effect, server side, that causes the two different effects. In one case movement is hindered (including switching weapons or throwing grenades) before you die because it appears the server has calculated that you have died before your client has and so client input is either restricted or cancelled. The other case is similar: you fire your weapon or throw a grenade at the moment or just a millisecond after you die and the server removes the projectile from existence on the server...which makes no sense to me.
  • mischkag
    214 postsMember, Developer DICE
    I see. Thx a lot for your elaboration. I put it into my long tasklist to check it out. Should not happen indeed.
  • mischkag
    214 postsMember, Developer DICE
    @KingTolapsium: Some quickmatch issues have been addressed. As i hope that most issues will be fixed or at least significantly improved, i would need a new video once the next patch is out. In the meantime i will look at the remaining issues.
  • KingTolapsium
    5491 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    mischkag wrote: »
    @KingTolapsium: Some quickmatch issues have been addressed. As i hope that most issues will be fixed or at least significantly improved, i would need a new video once the next patch is out. In the meantime i will look at the remaining issues.

    Gotcha, I'll just keep my eyes peeled for anything abnormal that I haven't seen yet. Looking forward to the patch/cte, whichever comes first.
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