Hit Detection

Comments

  • lionking7001
    219 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I don't know if this applies to this thread but this seems very strange to me.

    https://1drv.ms/v/s!AuJbbl6pkIS2iUmEj7p9JcbK-63v
  • lizzard
    985 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member

    I don't know if this applies to this thread but this seems very strange to me.

    https://1drv.ms/v/s!AuJbbl6pkIS2iUmEj7p9JcbK-63v

    Looks both strange and enoying!

    If I would believe my eyes, it looks like you where killed through the wall.
    But when killcam tries to follow your killer, he suddenly appears from thin air?

    Hard to see on my phone.. But im sure some one will explain for you how it al happen.
  • jdbelcher1998
    587 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    I don't know if this applies to this thread but this seems very strange to me.

    https://1drv.ms/v/s!AuJbbl6pkIS2iUmEj7p9JcbK-63v

    mischkag said above they believe they have discovered what's causing the invisible player bug and have fixed it for next patch.

    @stuwooster try turning off slowdown assist as well. It will continue to track player movement and pull your aim off target. I always played with slowdown on on BF4, but have turned it off on BF1 and I don't notice this anymore. So when I went back to BF4 this weekend I noticed my aim getting jerked around, which I hadn't in quite a while—so I turned it off there too.
  • MikeyTT
    58 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    denjoga wrote: »
    I have "issues" on BF servers, but according to DICE's in-game Network Performance Graph, those issues are not being caused by my connection.
    DICE's own means of analysis proves that my connection is technically sound, why should I put any effort into providing further evidence?
    Really?!

    So you expect DICE to fix the issues you have (I'm assuming you're in the forum to complain about something), without any additional information or insight to help them do this. They provide some basic tools, which provide an indication at a point in time, when playing with others that can drop in and out of sessions all the time. You can provide a very detailed view of how you connect, and in some instances, will find issues that are actually not DICE's fault.

    Why would you not help, if it meant that you get a better experience and a better game as a result. It's not like you'll have to change a lot of things, or spend hours digging through log files looking for needles. Confirming your internet connection and route to the BF servers is "good" takes no time at all and provides a sound start point when looking for issues.
    BanyanTree wrote: »
    Plusnet is owned by BT. And they supply over BT kit and infrastructure anyway. You might find your experience not really any different. I was with Plusnet for over ten years. Anything went wrong it was BT engineer coming out.
    Indeed they do, but the kit they use is theirs, or rather their infrastructure. OpenReach are the engineers who come out, who at present are still under the BT umbrella.

    I was switched over on Thu and ran a PingPlotter test. Unfortunately I still had an issue, but they have moved me onto their new network, which is the same as my other line. I now get a very clean PingPlotter view of the connection, which is good. I only managed to get an hour or so in on Sat, so not enough to hail the change as game changing, but I did get a few less WTF moments. I was top in TDM and Domination (for a couple of rounds with the clan guys), which I very rarely do, so I'm pleased and optimstic ;)

    pingplot3.png
  • stuwooster
    279 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member

    @stuwooster try turning off slowdown assist as well. It will continue to track player movement and pull your aim off target. I always played with slowdown on on BF4, but have turned it off on BF1 and I don't notice this anymore. So when I went back to BF4 this weekend I noticed my aim getting jerked around, which I hadn't in quite a while—so I turned it off there too.

    I will give that a go. I was just wondering why if data is lost / delayed the game still knows where a player is moving to or if this is not a netcode issue.

  • jdbelcher1998
    587 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    stuwooster wrote: »

    @stuwooster try turning off slowdown assist as well. It will continue to track player movement and pull your aim off target. I always played with slowdown on on BF4, but have turned it off on BF1 and I don't notice this anymore. So when I went back to BF4 this weekend I noticed my aim getting jerked around, which I hadn't in quite a while—so I turned it off there too.

    I will give that a go. I was just wondering why if data is lost / delayed the game still knows where a player is moving to or if this is not a netcode issue.

    Yeah, I've never had that happen in this game. Happens in both BF4 and SWBF from time to time, though. Usually when it happens there I'm locked in place and can't move my aim, so you're experiencing something else. Maybe post a short clip? (Or I could be completely understanding what you're describing. In which case, sorry.)
  • xBigOrangeHeadx
    395 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    @MikeyTT

    Plusnet used to offer a gamer package with no traffic shaping and low latency. That might be worth a look if you're not already on it. I know the game doesn't use much bandwidth but Plusnet used to be quite heavy handed with the traffic shaping at peak times.
  • mischkag
    214 postsMember, Developer DICE
    @em1LL77: When you have a good connection, you are barely behind the gameworld, unlike you mentioned.Hits should almost never not count. There is a difference between not hitting on your client and hits being rejected by the server (you see blood splatter but never get the hit marker). The latter should not happen anymore, or very rarely. You made quite a broad statement and i cannot take any action from this. What do u mean by behind the game with gunfire etc?! What makes you feel this way?
    Yes there are occurences where u get hit and the shooter is not quite at the point where he actually shot from, that should be improved by now. The 60Hz tickrate for consoles for smaller gamemodes should help too. You should get on CTE if you run on PC. It is all live there already.
    The reason why the extrapolation offset will go down when you cap your framerate is that there is a quite sophisticated way of estimating the next packet arrival. If you run at high framerate, you have a high chance of running a frame where you just received a packet and there u need at least 1/tickrate time for extrapolation offset to ensure we do not run into extrapoaltion. The display value is sampled at the very frame you just have received a packet. It is not averaged over all the frames where u have not received one. Thats why it is just a different value in the display, it does not change anything in game.
    Even the yellow server icon is huge reason for concern. Once that happens, the whole experience will suffer. What helps is to tell us the server name where it occured so that we can make sure it has sufficient resources and does not get overloaded.
    As far as frame history goes, any tweaking does not affect you with a low latency internet connection whatsoever. I am afraid you mix a few things up here and it seems a lot is up to perception. The framehistory tweaking had very little effect, otherwise high pingers would barely ever hit you...

    @stuwooster: Can you please separate out the aim assist issues to a separate thread? I know it affects hit registration, but it really is a spearate mechanic and we have @jjju to work and respond to it.
    The players will be rendered at the positions the aim assist uses too.
  • jjju
    115 postsMember, Developer DICE, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V
    stuwooster wrote: »
    I have a question. @mischkag Sometimes the game will lag out and some players will just lock in place, part of the rubberband / teleport thing.However when this happens i still sometimes get the aim assist pulling my crosshairs around like the game knows where the player is but has not animated him moving. Any idea what the deal is there? Also i have turned off Aim rotation, why does it still pull the aim around?

    The rotation aim assist option is just for the snap on zoom-in assist. The pulling crosshair part you're explaining is part of the slowdown aim assist, thus you should turn that one off if you don't want it. Some day I may move things around and make it part of the other option
  • stuwooster
    279 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    mischkag wrote: »

    @stuwooster: Can you please separate out the aim assist issues to a separate thread? I know it affects hit registration, but it really is a spearate mechanic and we have @jjju to work and respond to it.
    The players will be rendered at the positions the aim assist uses too.

    I have definitely seen instances where a player is stuck on the spot mid run animation but the aim assist drags your crosshairs sideways as if it is still tracking them, then they teleport to the new position, I had turned game dvr off, but will turn it back on and see if i can capture an example.
    It is by no means something that happens all the time but it does happen every now and then.

  • stuwooster
    279 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    jjju wrote: »
    stuwooster wrote: »
    I have a question. @mischkag Sometimes the game will lag out and some players will just lock in place, part of the rubberband / teleport thing.However when this happens i still sometimes get the aim assist pulling my crosshairs around like the game knows where the player is but has not animated him moving. Any idea what the deal is there? Also i have turned off Aim rotation, why does it still pull the aim around?

    The rotation aim assist option is just for the snap on zoom-in assist. The pulling crosshair part you're explaining is part of the slowdown aim assist, thus you should turn that one off if you don't want it. Some day I may move things around and make it part of the other option

    Thanks jjju, i will give it a try.
  • stuwooster
    279 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    @mischkag I realise from a technical standpoint this is not the best example as the server is probably dumping data, but it is a pretty good representation of what i see from time to time mid game.



    Right at the end of the clip, as the game ends, you see the player freeze in place mid run, but my crosshair keeps moving as if its tracking him, i realise it's hard to tell without having a controller in hand but i can feel it doing it.
  • mischkag
    214 postsMember, Developer DICE
    Looking at the video...if u refer to right at the end before the Scoreboard,the player did extrapolate which the aiming tracked.Then it snaps back.So the player you tried to hit failed to deliver its inputs and the extrapolation kept him walking forward.Then he snapped back and shot at you.Unfortunate, but if i would to not extrapolate, it would jitter quite a lot with non constant ping players. Perhaps it would be better to slow the soldier extrapolation down to not diverge too far off?!
  • stuwooster
    279 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    mischkag wrote: »
    Looking at the video...if u refer to right at the end before the Scoreboard,the player did extrapolate which the aiming tracked.Then it snaps back.So the player you tried to hit failed to deliver its inputs and the extrapolation kept him walking forward.Then he snapped back and shot at you.Unfortunate, but if i would to not extrapolate, it would jitter quite a lot with non constant ping players. Perhaps it would be better to slow the soldier extrapolation down to not diverge too far off?!

    Ahh ok, that makes sense, thanks for the explanation. I guess if you did slow the extrapolation down you could end up with the opposite problem where it would snap forward in his direction of motion because he could have moved further than the server had extrapolated?
    I personally don't know if one way has advantages over the other, if it has to happen to keep things flowing i guess it does not really matter which direction it happens in.
    In that instance, had he shot at and hit me, would his shot count once his inputs catch up on the server or would it be rejected? i guess as i am not moving it would be counted?
  • mischkag
    214 postsMember, Developer DICE
    The server does not extrapolate, so when his inputs arrive, it will be in sync with his firing input unless he had severe subsequent upstream drops (about 4 lost packets in a row). Previously (before XP1), there was a chance that when u shoot at an extrapolated player, that your hit would be rejected. That aint happening any longer.
  • stuwooster
    279 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    mischkag wrote: »
    The server does not extrapolate, so when his inputs arrive, it will be in sync with his firing input unless he had severe subsequent upstream drops (about 4 lost packets in a row). Previously (before XP1), there was a chance that when u shoot at an extrapolated player, that your hit would be rejected. That aint happening any longer.

    Cool, Thanks.
  • em1LL77
    77 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    @mischkag

    here's a small video of what i call serever issues



    you can notice that the server icon appears and hits are miscalculated. this happens to me on a daily basis ,like 4 from 5 servers i play on. mostly conquest on the ones located in Netherlands. sry the net graph isn't on but this is just a random gameplay recording and it was not intended for this purpose. the ping was 41 on the server with no pocket loss. also my netgraph stats are stable and mostly all the time as i described in the previous comment.
    also noticed when i trace route with ping plotter ,some of the last hops just before the one on witch the game is hosted has pocket loss or big ping variations. they are also i3d.net hosted.

    https://ibb.co/nRigTv

  • BaronVonGoon
    6639 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    @mischkag


    What are the implications for rate of fire, time to kill, and damage per second when you take into account the tickrate and server tick?

    How much of an effect does tick rate have on this hypothetical 1v1:

    -I am using the Auto Revolver 163 RPM.
    -the enemy is using the Lewis gun 480 RPM.
    -Distance is 5 metres.
    -Server tick is 10 and Tickrate is 30.

    In this scenario, I have the better time to kill and damage per second. But his gun has better rate of fire and, therefore, his shots will require less frames to register so his lethal damage may get to me faster than my auto revolver. Does this mean I'm better off using a sidearm with a faster RPM, like the Frommer Stop? If so, it kind of defeats the purpose of using a high damage sidearm like the revolvers if their damage is not going to register in time.

    I can provide video clips showing low RPM weapons on occasion losing to high RPM weapons even though at these ranges the low RPM weapons should win. I mean ofcourse sometimes aim can be off but aim is not the issue, sometimes you are right on target but I feel the tick rate and server tick do have an effect on hit registration in high RPM vs low RPM fights.

     

  • oof14346
    954 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    @mischkag


    What are the implications for rate of fire, time to kill, and damage per second when you take into account the tickrate and server tick?

    How much of an effect does tick rate have on this hypothetical 1v1:

    -I am using the Auto Revolver 163 RPM.
    -the enemy is using the Lewis gun 480 RPM.
    -Distance is 5 metres.
    -Server tick is 10 and Tickrate is 30.

    In this scenario, I have the better time to kill and damage per second. But his gun has better rate of fire and, therefore, his shots will require less frames to register so his lethal damage may get to me faster than my auto revolver. Does this mean I'm better off using a sidearm with a faster RPM, like the Frommer Stop? If so, it kind of defeats the purpose of using a high damage sidearm like the revolvers if their damage is not going to register in time.

    I can provide video clips showing low RPM weapons on occasion losing to high RPM weapons even though at these ranges the low RPM weapons should win. I mean ofcourse sometimes aim can be off but aim is not the issue, sometimes you are right on target but I feel the tick rate and server tick do have an effect on hit registration in high RPM vs low RPM fights.

     

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that high RPM weapons suffered because some bullets would hit between tick rates (or something like that). It's why you would empty half your clip to down a single enemy sometimes.

    As for the low vs high RPM fight, I don't think it's as simple as you state. If we take the assault weapons, the Automatico is designed to win close quarter fights, but suffer as the range increases.
  • Rev0verDrive
    6722 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    RPM and Muzzle velocity ... plus drag coeff.
    I see an issue with HROF and low FPS send rates....bundled damage.
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