Hit Detection

Comments

  • lizzard
    953 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    lizzard wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    mischkag wrote: »
    @em1LL77: Maybe its me having a bad day, but what is wrong in the video and what do u exactly mean by 'hits are miscalculated'?

    @BaronVonGoon: Bullet hit detection is performed at full framerate, but that does not mean they fly faster, just the hit is potentially registered earlier. So as the firing rate determines how quick a new bullet is spawned, the hit detection is based on the bullets velocity and not firing rate of the weapon. There is much more to a weapon than just rpm (spead, velocity, damage, falloff...).

    @lizzard: I dont see how that is the games fault? The weapons are setup in a way mimicing the real weapon. What should change in your opinion to make it feel better for you?

    How? Ööömmmhh..

    Automatico = hig rate of fire, close quarters wepon. Designed to be affective in close quarters combat, effective and accurate while hipfighering!
    How would I enjoy being killed by a slow lumping guy, with a heavy lmg with low rate of fire and horrible hipfigher accuracy!?

    He's not the weapon designer. Why don't you ask Kertz that question?

    Because if the game worked as intended, the Automatico would destroy the Lewis gun user in close quarters.. I sertenly cant run around and kill automatico users if I use the Levis gun..

    Aim is a factor. A Selbstlader user can kill a shotgun user in CQB.

    CQB:
    automatico needs 5 bullets to kill at 269 ms.
    I bet you miss ATLEAST 1. So now you need 6 bullets, or 20% more time to kill = 1.2 * 5 = 323 ms

    Lewis needs 5 bullets to kill at 501 ms
    Suppose he gets one head shot in there and doesn’t miss any bullets because its CQB and the Lewis is a laser (Unlike your automatico) so now it’s a 4 bullet kill instead of 5, or 20% less time to kill = .8 x 501 = 401 ms

    Unless my math is off, you can see how easily variables change time to kill. What if he gets 2 headshots? What if you miss more than 1 bullet? Many possibilities.
    Simply having the Automatico doesn’t guarantee a kill in CQB.

    Yes I understand what you're saying.
    Going in against a prone player that's using a bipoded Levis gun, is bound to result in disaster! I wouldn't complain about that..

    Im thinking of the times you met someone inside a room. Running in to someone around a corner.
    Or a Levis gun user that simply comes running in to a room.

    I know if I try to use the Levis gun as a run and gun wepon, I won't be able to hit anything!

    @mischkag
    A gamemode without suppression effects would be really nice, then we could eliminate one thing that makes the game a random kill generator!
    And get a better feel for what's going on in the game.

    Could be under custom games.
    And also Maybe a server option in rental?
  • mischkag
    214 postsMember, Developer
    @lizard: Well suppression is a game element that makes sense and has a tactical purpose. If you feel strongly about this, plz create a new forum thread. I am not a designer :(
    @BaronVonGoon: I have it in my TODO list to provide a minimal option...just havent gotten to it. yet
  • BaronVonGoon
    2904 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    lizzard wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    mischkag wrote: »
    @em1LL77: Maybe its me having a bad day, but what is wrong in the video and what do u exactly mean by 'hits are miscalculated'?

    @BaronVonGoon: Bullet hit detection is performed at full framerate, but that does not mean they fly faster, just the hit is potentially registered earlier. So as the firing rate determines how quick a new bullet is spawned, the hit detection is based on the bullets velocity and not firing rate of the weapon. There is much more to a weapon than just rpm (spead, velocity, damage, falloff...).

    @lizzard: I dont see how that is the games fault? The weapons are setup in a way mimicing the real weapon. What should change in your opinion to make it feel better for you?

    How? Ööömmmhh..

    Automatico = hig rate of fire, close quarters wepon. Designed to be affective in close quarters combat, effective and accurate while hipfighering!
    How would I enjoy being killed by a slow lumping guy, with a heavy lmg with low rate of fire and horrible hipfigher accuracy!?

    He's not the weapon designer. Why don't you ask Kertz that question?

    Because if the game worked as intended, the Automatico would destroy the Lewis gun user in close quarters.. I sertenly cant run around and kill automatico users if I use the Levis gun..

    Aim is a factor. A Selbstlader user can kill a shotgun user in CQB.

    CQB:
    automatico needs 5 bullets to kill at 269 ms.
    I bet you miss ATLEAST 1. So now you need 6 bullets, or 20% more time to kill = 1.2 * 5 = 323 ms

    Lewis needs 5 bullets to kill at 501 ms
    Suppose he gets one head shot in there and doesn’t miss any bullets because its CQB and the Lewis is a laser (Unlike your automatico) so now it’s a 4 bullet kill instead of 5, or 20% less time to kill = .8 x 501 = 401 ms

    Unless my math is off, you can see how easily variables change time to kill. What if he gets 2 headshots? What if you miss more than 1 bullet? Many possibilities.
    Simply having the Automatico doesn’t guarantee a kill in CQB.

    Yes I understand what you're saying.
    Going in against a prone player that's using a bipoded Levis gun, is bound to result in disaster! I wouldn't complain about that..

    Im thinking of the times you met someone inside a room. Running in to someone around a corner.
    Or a Levis gun user that simply comes running in to a room.

    I know if I try to use the Levis gun as a run and gun wepon, I won't be able to hit anything!

    honestly that's what I thought too when this game released. Im not as effective with anything other than LMGs now. They're definitely not as good in CQB but the probability of getting multikills is higher than other guns due to the large mags and that --to me-- is addictive. My worst fear is running into a room with 7 enemies and having to reload after I kill 2. Lol

  • xBigOrangeHeadx
    299 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited March 30
    mischkag wrote: »
    Just talked to one of my weapon designers about the spawn protection. Would it make sense and seem useful to you to provide a slightly different color for the hitmarker if you hit a guy while he is still under spawn protection? If so, what color do u suggest?

    @mischkag It's a great idea. I suggest a completely different shape hit marker (square?) so that it is unambiguous and cannot be mistaken for a user's own setting for regular hit markers.
  • lizzard
    953 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    mischkag wrote: »
    @lizard: Well suppression is a game element that makes sense and has a tactical purpose. If you feel strongly about this, plz create a new forum thread. I am not a designer :(
    @BaronVonGoon: I have it in my TODO list to provide a minimal option...just havent gotten to it. yet

    I know its not your section. I'm simply mentioning it because it effects how we perceive the game and the netcode!

    And to be honest, can you really say that having your bullets fly everywere exept at the thing your aiming at. Is a realistic feature?
    Blurred wision, is maybe Okey.
    But increased spread? Higer recoil?

    Those things really doesn't make your work any easier.
    And it doesn't make the gameplay experience any better.

    Sure someone can create a new thread regarding suppression mechanics..
    Then that thread can be neglected among the other 100 suppression thread's.

    Anyhow, its going to be fun to see how the game plays after the next patch. Im assuming your netcode changes will be implemented then.
    Thanks again for your efforts in making the game better.
  • Robenter
    4 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    mischkag wrote: »
    Just talked to one of my weapon designers about the spawn protection. Would it make sense and seem useful to you to provide a slightly different color for the hitmarker if you hit a guy while he is still under spawn protection? If so, what color do u suggest?

    Too many different colors for hit markers will begin to get confusing and counter-intuitive. Why not change the shape or visual properties of the hit-markers instead. You could make it almost transparent or make it a 'O' instead of and 'X' or whatever. At the very least I would say it is a better idea to have no hit-marker at all instead of a different color hit-marker. Hit markers in BF games always imply damage is being dealt, no matter how small.
  • em1LL77
    62 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    mischkag wrote: »
    Just talked to one of my weapon designers about the spawn protection. Would it make sense and seem useful to you to provide a slightly different color for the hitmarker if you hit a guy while he is still under spawn protection? If so, what color do u suggest?

    that's a good idea. maybe yellow or pink. not many use pink for kill markers or head shots
  • BFBulletin
    46 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    @mischkag I've made a poll to vote about this idea and suggest a default color (if they agree) https://strawpoll.com/b9df64a

    I've also provided a direct link to this thread on twitter, so people can provide feedback.
  • VBALL_MVP
    4089 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    BFBulletin wrote: »
    @mischkag I've made a poll to vote about this idea and suggest a default color (if they agree) https://strawpoll.com/b9df64a

    I've also provided a direct link to this thread on twitter, so people can provide feedback.

    You should include an icon in the poll as well.
  • oof14346
    890 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Robenter wrote: »
    mischkag wrote: »
    Just talked to one of my weapon designers about the spawn protection. Would it make sense and seem useful to you to provide a slightly different color for the hitmarker if you hit a guy while he is still under spawn protection? If so, what color do u suggest?

    Too many different colors for hit markers will begin to get confusing and counter-intuitive. Why not change the shape or visual properties of the hit-markers instead. You could make it almost transparent or make it a 'O' instead of and 'X' or whatever. At the very least I would say it is a better idea to have no hit-marker at all instead of a different color hit-marker. Hit markers in BF games always imply damage is being dealt, no matter how small.

    I can get behind this. I'm sure people already use every color of the rainbow when customizing their hit markers. If possible, a different shape would suffice.
  • stuwooster
    277 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    BanyanTree wrote: »
    mischkag wrote: »
    Just talked to one of my weapon designers about the spawn protection. Would it make sense and seem useful to you to provide a slightly different color for the hitmarker if you hit a guy while he is still under spawn protection? If so, what color do u suggest?

    @mischkag It's a great idea. I suggest a completely different shape hit marker (square?) so that it is unambiguous and cannot be mistaken for a user's own setting for regular hit markers.

    This was going to be my suggestion. I was going to say 4 curved elements to create a small circle.
  • JohnConnorT_1000
    15 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    mischkag wrote: »
    @lizard: Well suppression is a game element that makes sense and has a tactical purpose. If you feel strongly about this, plz create a new forum thread. I am not a designer :(
    @BaronVonGoon: I have it in my TODO list to provide a minimal option...just havent gotten to it. yet

    @mischkag Hello, will there be a server in Russia? Or because of the sanction this is not possible?
    Another interesting question is, will the server with the capture of 32 and 48 slots? thanks in advance
  • xBigOrangeHeadx
    299 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    stuwooster wrote: »
    BanyanTree wrote: »
    mischkag wrote: »
    Just talked to one of my weapon designers about the spawn protection. Would it make sense and seem useful to you to provide a slightly different color for the hitmarker if you hit a guy while he is still under spawn protection? If so, what color do u suggest?

    @mischkag It's a great idea. I suggest a completely different shape hit marker (square?) so that it is unambiguous and cannot be mistaken for a user's own setting for regular hit markers.

    This was going to be my suggestion. I was going to say 4 curved elements to create a small circle.

    I'd also be tempted to use the different shape for hits on calvary class that are off horseback. I can never tell the difference by their avatar. It's the same principle, the person is taking reduced damage because of armour, be it class armour or spawn protection armour. The shape would still inherit the users colour preferences for hit markers.
  • misisipiRivrRat
    451 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    lizzard wrote: »
    mischkag wrote: »
    @lizard: Well suppression is a game element that makes sense and has a tactical purpose. If you feel strongly about this, plz create a new forum thread. I am not a designer :(
    @BaronVonGoon: I have it in my TODO list to provide a minimal option...just havent gotten to it. yet

    I know its not your section. I'm simply mentioning it because it effects how we perceive the game and the netcode!

    And to be honest, can you really say that having your bullets fly everywere exept at the thing your aiming at. Is a realistic feature?
    Blurred wision, is maybe Okey.
    But increased spread? Higer recoil?

    Those things really doesn't make your work any easier.
    And it doesn't make the gameplay experience any better.

    Sure someone can create a new thread regarding suppression mechanics..
    Then that thread can be neglected among the other 100 suppression thread's.

    Anyhow, its going to be fun to see how the game plays after the next patch. Im assuming your netcode changes will be implemented then.
    Thanks again for your efforts in making the game better.

    The thing with suppression is it doesn't seem to work against enemies sometimes. The way it's explained in this thread is if you shoot at somebody it causes bullet deviation on their part when they fire back, is that right? But I can be firing away at a sniper with a lmg and he calmly stands there and kills me on most engagements
    I know if he fires at me it also causes suppression. Is it who fires first that causes the suppression?
    And I have a couple of gameplay clips from last night showing certain killed after getting behind cover. Is a better fix for that coming in a patch?
  • lizzard
    953 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    lizzard wrote: »
    mischkag wrote: »
    @lizard: Well suppression is a game element that makes sense and has a tactical purpose. If you feel strongly about this, plz create a new forum thread. I am not a designer :(
    @BaronVonGoon: I have it in my TODO list to provide a minimal option...just havent gotten to it. yet

    I know its not your section. I'm simply mentioning it because it effects how we perceive the game and the netcode!

    And to be honest, can you really say that having your bullets fly everywere exept at the thing your aiming at. Is a realistic feature?
    Blurred wision, is maybe Okey.
    But increased spread? Higer recoil?

    Those things really doesn't make your work any easier.
    And it doesn't make the gameplay experience any better.

    Sure someone can create a new thread regarding suppression mechanics..
    Then that thread can be neglected among the other 100 suppression thread's.

    Anyhow, its going to be fun to see how the game plays after the next patch. Im assuming your netcode changes will be implemented then.
    Thanks again for your efforts in making the game better.

    The thing with suppression is it doesn't seem to work against enemies sometimes. The way it's explained in this thread is if you shoot at somebody it causes bullet deviation on their part when they fire back, is that right? But I can be firing away at a sniper with a lmg and he calmly stands there and kills me on most engagements
    I know if he fires at me it also causes suppression. Is it who fires first that causes the suppression?
    And I have a couple of gameplay clips from last night showing certain killed after getting behind cover. Is a better fix for that coming in a patch?

    Yeah.. I cant grasp how it works, and none of the guys I play with either!
    Tryed some of the new maps yesterday cuss of the battlefest premium thing.
    Lasted three games, then everyone was bored and ragequited.
    Did capture some nice sniper kills.. Headshots while missing the player with several meters! Glorious.. Absolutely glorious.. :(
  • BaronVonGoon
    2904 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited March 31
    mischkag wrote: »
    @lizard: Well suppression is a game element that makes sense and has a tactical purpose. If you feel strongly about this, plz create a new forum thread. I am not a designer :(
    @BaronVonGoon: I have it in my TODO list to provide a minimal option...just havent gotten to it. yet

    @mischkag Hello, will there be a server in Russia? Or because of the sanction this is not possible?
    Another interesting question is, will the server with the capture of 32 and 48 slots? thanks in advance
    mischkag wrote: »
    @lizard: Well suppression is a game element that makes sense and has a tactical purpose. If you feel strongly about this, plz create a new forum thread. I am not a designer :(
    @BaronVonGoon: I have it in my TODO list to provide a minimal option...just havent gotten to it. yet

    @mischkag Hello, will there be a server in Russia? Or because of the sanction this is not possible?
    Another interesting question is, will the server with the capture of 32 and 48 slots? thanks in advance

    This is not his department and I'm pretty sure sanctions on Russia aren't the reason for lack of servers. Lol they can put the servers in Lithuania, Belarus, Poland, or Ukraine right near the borders.

    lizzard wrote: »
    mischkag wrote: »
    @lizard: Well suppression is a game element that makes sense and has a tactical purpose. If you feel strongly about this, plz create a new forum thread. I am not a designer :(
    @BaronVonGoon: I have it in my TODO list to provide a minimal option...just havent gotten to it. yet

    I know its not your section. I'm simply mentioning it because it effects how we perceive the game and the netcode!

    And to be honest, can you really say that having your bullets fly everywere exept at the thing your aiming at. Is a realistic feature?
    Blurred wision, is maybe Okey.
    But increased spread? Higer recoil?

    Those things really doesn't make your work any easier.
    And it doesn't make the gameplay experience any better.

    Sure someone can create a new thread regarding suppression mechanics..
    Then that thread can be neglected among the other 100 suppression thread's.

    Anyhow, its going to be fun to see how the game plays after the next patch. Im assuming your netcode changes will be implemented then.
    Thanks again for your efforts in making the game better.

    The thing with suppression is it doesn't seem to work against enemies sometimes. The way it's explained in this thread is if you shoot at somebody it causes bullet deviation on their part when they fire back, is that right? But I can be firing away at a sniper with a lmg and he calmly stands there and kills me on most engagements
    I know if he fires at me it also causes suppression. Is it who fires first that causes the suppression?

    This thread is about netcode not about supression.
  • xBigOrangeHeadx
    299 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited March 31
    Suppression varies with distance from target. Lookup the xfactor video where he explains it. The balance that is hard to achieve is to avoid rewarding a shooter with suppression against his target when basically he has crap aim and is just missing all his shots.

    Anyway, let's not derail the thread with it.
  • VBALL_MVP
    4089 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    lizzard wrote: »
    mischkag wrote: »
    @lizard: Well suppression is a game element that makes sense and has a tactical purpose. If you feel strongly about this, plz create a new forum thread. I am not a designer :(
    @BaronVonGoon: I have it in my TODO list to provide a minimal option...just havent gotten to it. yet

    I know its not your section. I'm simply mentioning it because it effects how we perceive the game and the netcode!

    And to be honest, can you really say that having your bullets fly everywere exept at the thing your aiming at. Is a realistic feature?
    Blurred wision, is maybe Okey.
    But increased spread? Higer recoil?

    Those things really doesn't make your work any easier.
    And it doesn't make the gameplay experience any better.

    Sure someone can create a new thread regarding suppression mechanics..
    Then that thread can be neglected among the other 100 suppression thread's.

    Anyhow, its going to be fun to see how the game plays after the next patch. Im assuming your netcode changes will be implemented then.
    Thanks again for your efforts in making the game better.

    The thing with suppression is it doesn't seem to work against enemies sometimes. The way it's explained in this thread is if you shoot at somebody it causes bullet deviation on their part when they fire back, is that right? But I can be firing away at a sniper with a lmg and he calmly stands there and kills me on most engagements
    I know if he fires at me it also causes suppression. Is it who fires first that causes the suppression?
    And I have a couple of gameplay clips from last night showing certain killed after getting behind cover. Is a better fix for that coming in a patch?

    It also depends on their position. A person laying prone with a bipod is more accurate than a person on the move. So suppression is just a multiplier, from my understanding, so it does effect them....just not as much.
  • lizzard
    953 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    BanyanTree wrote: »
    Suppression varies with distance from target. Lookup the xfactor video where he explains it. The balance that is hard to achieve is to avoid rewarding a shooter with suppression against his target when basically he has crap aim and is just missing all his shots.

    Anyway, let's not derail the thread with it.

    If suppression isnt a part of the netcode, then hitdetection isn't either!

    Player make a action. The game handles that action, and present it. and its consequences to the other players.

    In my opinion. This can be a player that open or close a door.
    Brakes a window.
    Brakes a fence.
    Blows a hole in a wall.
    Suppresses you.
    Makes a tree or a building fall on you.
    Drops an airplane in your head.

    also missing sounds is a thing, And over enhanced sounds.

    (I like to hear when someone smashing through a door behind me. Or the awful horse that approaches in full speed)

    So if a players action doesn't gets represented on the other players screen. Or your actions doesn't effect the other players as intended.
    That could be a netcode issue!

  • VBALL_MVP
    4089 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    lizzard wrote: »
    BanyanTree wrote: »
    Suppression varies with distance from target. Lookup the xfactor video where he explains it. The balance that is hard to achieve is to avoid rewarding a shooter with suppression against his target when basically he has crap aim and is just missing all his shots.

    Anyway, let's not derail the thread with it.

    If suppression isnt a part of the netcode, then hitdetection isn't either!

    Player make a action. The game handles that action, and present it. and its consequences to the other players.

    In my opinion. This can be a player that open or close a door.
    Brakes a window.
    Brakes a fence.
    Blows a hole in a wall.
    Suppresses you.
    Makes a tree or a building fall on you.
    Drops an airplane in your head.

    also missing sounds is a thing, And over enhanced sounds.

    (I like to hear when someone smashing through a door behind me. Or the awful horse that approaches in full speed)

    So if a players action doesn't gets represented on the other players screen. Or your actions doesn't effect the other players as intended.
    That could be a netcode issue!

    The thread is on hit detection not netcode or supression. @BanyanTree is right, let's stay on topic.
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