It's time to NERF Planes!!!

Comments

  • Trokey66
    9038 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited April 2017
    @Trokey66 wrote
    If you think 1000% increase between my BF4 attempt and BF1 doesn't indicate an issue, it demonstrates the you are completely biased and don't want your crutches nerf'd.
    Who would have guessed I would be top 7% in anything flying related!?
    First you can't compare BF1 with BF4. If not for the MAA and active noob rader in BF4 it would have been just as easy to fly in BF4 as in BF1.
    Very few are flying or even know how to fly. Top 7% is only a matter of time spending in a plane. And you being in Top 7% just shows how few are flying and how few kills it takes.
    All players can get the same SPM and KDR in a tank. Why should it be so different in a plane and why should it be harder to fly than using a tank.
    People think its easier to counter a tank VS a plane and still tanks are on top 5 of the scoreboard on every map with high spm and kdr. Planes are not.
    StalHamarr wrote: »
    Again with the BF4 ****.

    We had this little thing called helicopters on bf4.
    You can't compare BF1 planes with BF4 planes. You have to compare BF1 air with BF4 air.

    Yes, you didn't get farmed as much by planes on BF4, but you were farmed HARD by littlebirds, while jets were more focused on vehicles. At the same time, scout helicopters also had strong anti-air capabilities.

    Planes didn't kill infantry as much, but threats from the air were the same, if not higher on BF4.
    StalHamarr wrote: »
    Again with the BF4 ****.

    We had this little thing called helicopters on bf4.
    You can't compare BF1 planes with BF4 planes. You have to compare BF1 air with BF4 air.

    Yes, you didn't get farmed as much by planes on BF4, but you were farmed HARD by littlebirds, while jets were more focused on vehicles. At the same time, scout helicopters also had strong anti-air capabilities.

    Planes didn't kill infantry as much, but threats from the air were the same, if not higher on BF4.

    plus the skill cap were there, you needed to do some practice with little bird to do extremely well.
    bf1 everything is just noobfriendly as possible and that means the skilled ones do extremely well more easily.

    Champion, confirmation that flying is a lot easier in BF1 because of a lack of effective ground based AA.

    @StalHamarr, I am not comparing the games mechanics, I am comparing my ability to USE the game mechanics between the 2 titles.

    THAT is our point and you fine Gentlemen have just confirmed it.

    Sad thing is, wouldn't you want it changed? Wouldn't you want it more about 'skill' and not who can farm best?

    Nah, can't have that can we, you like it to much.
  • Lailonn
    8 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Bla bla bla just went for plane farming and even with 20:3 for me (i dont use planes a lot) and destroying all their planes not even one guy went to AA to get me down so i farmed more. Simple as that.

    If i were any good it would be disaster for enemy
  • Trokey66
    9038 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Lailonn wrote: »
    Bla bla bla just went for plane farming and even with 20:3 for me (i dont use planes a lot) and destroying all their planes not even one guy went to AA to get me down so i farmed more. Simple as that.

    If i were any good it would be disaster for enemy

    Your of course, assuming that they didn't get shot off the AA.
  • SirBobdk
    5296 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited April 2017
    @Trokey66 wrote;
    THAT is our point and you fine Gentlemen have just confirmed it.
    Sad thing is, wouldn't you want it changed? Wouldn't you want it more about 'skill' and not who can farm best?
    Nah, can't have that can we, you like it to much.

    I totally agree that the trench fighter has a total wrong role in BF1.
    Right now the fighter is as ridiculous as the monkey chopper (little bird) in BF4.
    I have 170 stars with the fighter and i have said that trench is op months ago.
    I think you have to be careful with anything other than just changing the reload time.

    My point is that you have to balance the trench fighter, but beware of other changes that create imbalance. And remember that it is a casual arcade game. It should be just as easy to fly as using tank or playing infantry. Otherwise a class will only be for the good players and other will complain because they can't.
    And just because something is over used it is not necessarily OP.
  • Trokey66
    9038 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    @Trokey66 wrote;
    THAT is our point and you fine Gentlemen have just confirmed it.
    Sad thing is, wouldn't you want it changed? Wouldn't you want it more about 'skill' and not who can farm best?
    Nah, can't have that can we, you like it to much.

    I totally agree that the trench fighter has a total wrong role in BF1.
    Right now the fighter is as ridiculous as the monkey chopper (little bird) in BF4.
    I have 170 stars with the fighter and i have said that trench is op months ago.
    I think you have to be careful with anything other than just changing the reload time.

    My point is that you have to balance the trench fighter, but beware of other changes that create imbalance. And remember that it is a casual arcade game. It should be just as easy to fly as using tank or playing infantry. Otherwise a class will only be for the good players and other will complain because they can't.
    And just because something is over used it is not necessarily OP.

    I have said on countless occasions that balancing is like throwing a pebble in a pond.

    The splash is the immediate fix but the ripples can be unforseen affects.

    The TF is borderline OP because of it's ease of use and is relatively difficult to counter because of it's speed and agility.

    Nerfing the TF, hell even removing it would cause that much of an issue because there are better air to air fighters to chose and THAT is what they are supposed to do, not farm infantry.

    No doubt additional tweaks may be needed as result but hey, that is balancing a complex video game.
  • SirBobdk
    5296 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    @Trokey66
    No doubt additional tweaks may be needed as result but hey, that is balancing a complex video game.
    Yes it is, Without a fighter (no one want to use), attack plane will be just as annoying, and then they will recerive a Nerf or AA a Buff, and it could wery well continues until air is destroyed.
    I hope not CTE is in control. We have seen this before and it's mostly people asking for nerf.
    I Hope DICE knows what they are doing and will get the balance right.
  • sealisland-ea
    70 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Bear in mind that someone going on a 70 kill streak in a plane has done so because your team has failed to counter them. Did you get in a fighter to dogfight? Did you lose because they were better than you? Did you then try again with two fighters or AA support? Sometimes there's someone in a game that's really good... just as there were little bird pilots and JDAM snipers in BF4.
    However, even a good trench fighter pilot is relatively easy to nullify by bringing in an AA truck to deny access to half the map. If you're not prepared to spend your resources to counter an air vehicle then what do you expect?
    The problem is that driving the AA truck or sitting on an AA emplacement is rather dull and unrewarding, so you're really trading your gameplay experience... and that's probably why air vehicles are left to dominate.
    I like flying the fighter but still agree it needs a nerf - a multi kill should require several passes, should require me to do the work spotting on my first pass. It should punish targets that don't react to the threat but be avoidable by those that do. Limit trench fighters to a max damage per pass and people might get a chance to turn their guns to the sky before it returns. After all, part of the frustration with fighters is the (literal) out-of-the-blue death.
  • SirBobdk
    5296 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    @sealisland-ea wroye.
    Bear in mind that someone going on a 70 kill streak in a plane has done so because your team has failed to counter them
    It's very rare in CQ any going 70 kills in planes. I would guess average is below 20.
    A game is not better than those who play, and it will not be better than now. So it is better to adapt the game to the players level and way of playing.
    Teamplay is almost not existing. All play for themselves and what/how they think is fun.
    Theory is fine, but if it does not work in practice, it does not matter.
  • r0nin_Ts
    1412 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited April 2017
    *Deleted*
    Post edited by r0nin_Ts on
  • Trokey66
    9038 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    @Trokey66
    No doubt additional tweaks may be needed as result but hey, that is balancing a complex video game.
    Yes it is, Without a fighter (no one want to use), attack plane will be just as annoying, and then they will recerive a Nerf or AA a Buff, and it could wery well continues until air is destroyed.
    I hope not CTE is in control. We have seen this before and it's mostly people asking for nerf.
    I Hope DICE knows what they are doing and will get the balance right.

    You are assuming that no one will fly Dogfight or Bomber Killer. If that happens, surely that is on the winged fraternity.

    Why do you also assume the Attack Plane should be nerf'd or AA buffed? If your scenario were to occur, why not buff Fighter air to air capabilities?

    Again, if your scenario does occur, it would also compound the theory that our flying brethren do care about the team and only care about their own performance and KD by farming infantry.

    This in turn would further invalidate the 'use teamwork' excuse used by many wanna be Mavericks.

    Despite what you say, Air has never been 'destroyed' by balance tweaks, not as good perhaps but very healthy scores have always been achievable. There is no reason to suggest this will happen in BF1.
  • r0nin_Ts
    1412 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited April 2017
    *Deleted*
    Post edited by r0nin_Ts on
  • SirBobdk
    5296 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited April 2017
    @Trokey66
    Despite what you say, Air has never been 'destroyed' by balance tweak

    After all the threads in BF3 DICE destroyd Air in BF4 (Planes, not choppers) and the tweaks didn't improve anything, only more nerf.
    Only realy skilled pilots could fly, rest used them as transport.
    We have a balance issue right now. Mostly due to players (Not using MAA), but also the TF.
    So we nerf planes and buff AA and infantry weapons.
    Then next day players begin to use the MAA. Then we have a new imballance.
    Then what, Nerf. MAA or buff planes.
    Every action has an equal and opposite reaction, and we can't anticipate what.
  • Trokey66
    9038 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    @Trokey66
    Despite what you say, Air has never been 'destroyed' by balance tweak

    After all the threads in BF3 DICE destroyd Air in BF4 (Planes, not choppers) and the tweaks didn't improve anything, only more nerf.
    Only realy skilled pilots could fly, rest used them as transport.
    We have a balance issue right now. Mostly due to players (Not using MAA), but also the TF.
    So we nerf planes and buff AA and infantry weapons.
    Then next day players begin to use the MAA. Then we have a new imballance.
    Then what, Nerf. MAA or buff planes.
    Every action has an equal and opposite reaction, and we can't anticipate what.

    There are plenty on here that would argue that BF4 jets were fine......

    The reactions are not always equal, opposite or intended and that is why balancing is far from being black and white.

    People aren't using the MAA now because tanks are a better choice (tank balance is for another thread!). There is no reason to expect MAA use to increase if the TF gets neutered.

    Game dynamics will undoubtedly change, and we will have to see how the player base reacts.

    I say this now, assuming the TF does get properly neutered against infantry, a small increase in LMG damage would make balance between Air and Ground almost spot on in my opinion.

    But then this is DICE, I am sure they will break something!
  • SirBobdk
    5296 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited April 2017
    @Trokey66
    The reactions are not always equal, opposite or intended and that is why balancing is far from being black and white.
    I know :smile:, but every change make people play different and you cant anticipate that.
    When DICE nerf the attack plane, the AA and buff the fighter they didn't anticipate the balance situation as it is now.
    They belived they fixed the problem.
    There is no reason to expect MAA use to increase if the TF gets neutered.
    We dont know, it could happend. People get tired of tanks and want to try somthing else???. Who knows.
    Post edited by SirBobdk on
  • RRedux
    743 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Battlefield 1, war of vehicles.

    In operations at least, it feels like correct use of vehicles is the only thing that matters anymore. Infantry doesn't really matter, win/lose is decided by vehicle vs vehicle.
  • Captain_DarIing
    1425 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited April 2017
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    @Trokey66 wrote;
    THAT is our point and you fine Gentlemen have just confirmed it.
    Sad thing is, wouldn't you want it changed? Wouldn't you want it more about 'skill' and not who can farm best?
    Nah, can't have that can we, you like it to much.

    I totally agree that the trench fighter has a total wrong role in BF1.
    Right now the fighter is as ridiculous as the monkey chopper (little bird) in BF4.
    I have 170 stars with the fighter and i have said that trench is op months ago.
    I think you have to be careful with anything other than just changing the reload time.

    My point is that you have to balance the trench fighter, but beware of other changes that create imbalance. And remember that it is a casual arcade game. It should be just as easy to fly as using tank or playing infantry. Otherwise a class will only be for the good players and other will complain because they can't.
    And just because something is over used it is not necessarily OP.

    I have said on countless occasions that balancing is like throwing a pebble in a pond.

    The splash is the immediate fix but the ripples can be unforseen affects.

    The TF is borderline OP because of it's ease of use and is relatively difficult to counter because of it's speed and agility.

    Nerfing the TF, hell even removing it would cause that much of an issue because there are better air to air fighters to chose and THAT is what they are supposed to do, not farm infantry.

    No doubt additional tweaks may be needed as result but hey, that is balancing a complex video game.

    As a sidenote, I think DICE is balancing the vehicles in this game WAY too late. The damage is already done. Competition is stiff in the FPS market, and the playerbase drop is steeper than BF4's at the same passed time. DICE has different priorities than the common annoyances the bulk of the playerbase is facing on the most played gamemode: conquest with vehicles.
  • Trokey66
    9038 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    @Trokey66
    The reactions are not always equal, opposite or intended and that is why balancing is far from being black and white.
    I know :smile:, but every change make people play different and you cant anticipate that.
    When DICE nerf the attack plane, the AA and buff the fighter they didn't anticipate the balance situation as it is now.
    They belived they fixed the problem.
    There is no reason to expect MAA use to increase if the TF gets neutered.
    We dont know, it could happend. People get tired of tanks and want to try somthing else???. Who knows.

    I sometimes wonder about the decisions DICE make but hopefully there is method in there madness.
    RRedux wrote: »
    Battlefield 1, war of vehicles.

    In operations at least, it feels like correct use of vehicles is the only thing that matters anymore. Infantry doesn't really matter, win/lose is decided by vehicle vs vehicle.

    A bit to simplistic there as vehicles shiuld have an influence on the game but that said, whilst some vehicles don't rely on teamwork to do well, it is a must for infantry. In some areas, a disproportionate amount of effort is required to dispatch the solo player in a team vehicle.
  • StalHamarr
    251 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    @StalHamarr, I am not comparing the games mechanics, I am comparing my ability to USE the game mechanics between the 2 titles.

    THAT is our point and you fine Gentlemen have just confirmed it.

    Sad thing is, wouldn't you want it changed? Wouldn't you want it more about 'skill' and not who can farm best?

    Nah, can't have that can we, you like it to much.

    As I already said multiple times some 40 pages ago, I'm perfectly fine with some tweaks on the darts. And I also think the trench fighter is currently over-represented, so more variety would be welcome from my part.
    I also said already that 11% of my kills are from planes, so I'm not committed to any "side" of this parade.

    You started with reasonable contributions to this thread, but now you are just pretending everyone is a fighter fanboy hellbent on preserving the status quo, wich clearly isn't the case. You can delete the trench fighter, for all I care. I'll simply pick up an attack plane if I feel like farming infantry.

    One of your main points is that planes are killing way more infantry on BF1 than they did on BF4. My reply was directed at the stupidity of this comparison, if helicopters are left out from the picture.
    The littlebird was my most used vehicle on BF4 and the killstreaks I see here with the trench fighter are in the same ballpark.



  • StalHamarr
    251 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    And because you, oh so unique snowflake, are having a different experience, then vehicle balance is broken.
    Because DICE is not allowed to change their vision of their game over the course of the years.
    Cool, got it.

  • Trokey66
    9038 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    The reason I am comparing BF1 to BF4 is not because of what you or anyone else could achieve.

    I am not even comparing the specific properties or mechanics of them nevermind whether they were fixed or rotary wing.

    I am comparing MY ability to use them and I couldn't use BF4 Air.

    Nothing more, nothing less.
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