Weekly Debrief

Kill Trading?

Comments

  • GalaxyCoyote405
    83 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    sykarian30 wrote: »
    "There is nothing positive about beating an opponent 1 v 1 but he gets a shot off after death to get a cheap kill he didn't deserve."

    Justice? Anyway he/she deserves it cause you've got outplayed aswell.
    Agreed it's stupid that they get outplayed but still get rewarded with a free kill
  • Ram1c
    4167 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited April 2017
    Offensive language to other users
    
    Post edited by StarscreamUK on
  • jdbelcher1998
    587 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited April 2017
    Forget it. Deleted.
  • GRIZZ11283
    4839 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited April 2017
    *removed*
    Post edited by LOLGotYerTags on
  • Tansho
    176 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Didn't realize fired rounds disappeared at death. Ridiculous mechanic and glad it's going away.
  • xXWTFXxTHATGUY
    1171 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    DICE PLEASE! Who said they needed kill trading in the game? Seriously? This is right up there with ammo 2.0. Great Job listening to the community. Please tell me they are trolling us. I

    Kill trading needs to be in this game its a lot better than my bullets magically dissapearing because the guy shoots me at the same time.
  • LOLGotYerTags
    13021 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    edited April 2017
    @GRIZZ11283
    Do not use that word.

    It is inappropriate and really quite offensive.

    There are far better words you can use, That is just.. well, It is demeaning for starters.
    
    
  • GRIZZ11283
    4839 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    @GRIZZ11283
    Do not use that word.

    It is inappropriate and really quite offensive.

    There are far better words you can use, That is just.. well, It is demeaning for starters.
    
    

    I do apologise
  • Sir-Praise-a-lot
    455 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Ram1c wrote: »
    Net Code has nothing to do with it.

    This absolutely has to do with the netcode because players experiencing the lack of kill trades or not winning a firefight they should have due to packet loss.

    Lack of kill trades due to packet loss? There is a difference between deviating hit registration due to connection issues and no hit registration because a flying bullet gets deleted.
    I would distinguish a design decision from netcode / connectivity issues. One affects all players at all times, the other only a few at certain times.
  • Rev0verDrive
    6725 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Ram1c wrote: »
    Net Code has nothing to do with it.

    This absolutely has to do with the netcode because players experiencing the lack of kill trades or not winning a firefight they should have due to packet loss.

    Lack of kill trades due to packet loss? There is a difference between deviating hit registration due to connection issues and no hit registration because a flying bullet gets deleted.
    I would distinguish a design decision from netcode / connectivity issues. One affects all players at all times, the other only a few at certain times.

    Because of the broad spectrum of "acceptable" latencies persistent bullets was coded out. You kill a high latency player (300-400ms) and nearly a second later die from his bullets seems a tad bit unfair. Deaths need to always happen as fast as possible in an FPS.

    Fair kill trades are coming with the upcoming netcode patch. They're pretty much exclusive to 99ms or less latencies. Same applies to nades etc.
  • Rev0verDrive
    6725 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    mischkag wrote: »
    Killtrades got associated with poor netcode when BF4 came out with its 10Hz update frequency and damage arbitration setup. This allowed for killtrades to happen quite easy and was almost entirely based on what you perceived on your client. When we implemented higher update rates, this became less of a problem and they were eliminated entirely. However, this happened based on a very unfair model: whoevers damage was processed first, wins. So lets say you are sniping at someone and he at you. The bullet will fly some time before it hits. Say both would land a fatal shot, but depending on whos damage was signed off first on the server wins and the other players damage completely ignored. That is not just unrealistic, it is also very much unfair. There is a 100+ page forum about hit detection where i explicitly asked about this and suggested certain models. Lots of players complained about vaporizing bullets and flawed hit detection (you shoot but got killed by a player with 100 health etc). There was an overwhelming agreement about what you will have live soon. If your bullet is fired while you were still alive on the server, its damage will count (unless you are a high ping player). This is actually an example of us listening to the community and not the other way around. At first we had a too coarse approach on CTE with regards to killtrades. This was subsequently changed to the more realistic and fair model as described above.

    Thanks @mischkag
    A lot of us really do appreciate your communication and dedication.

    Hit Detection thread mischkag mentioned: https://forums.battlefield.com/en-us/discussion/58255/hit-detection/p1
  • crabman169
    12841 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    mischkag wrote: »
    Killtrades got associated with poor netcode when BF4 came out with its 10Hz update frequency and damage arbitration setup. This allowed for killtrades to happen quite easy and was almost entirely based on what you perceived on your client. When we implemented higher update rates, this became less of a problem and they were eliminated entirely. However, this happened based on a very unfair model: whoevers damage was processed first, wins. So lets say you are sniping at someone and he at you. The bullet will fly some time before it hits. Say both would land a fatal shot, but depending on whos damage was signed off first on the server wins and the other players damage completely ignored. That is not just unrealistic, it is also very much unfair. There is a 100+ page forum about hit detection where i explicitly asked about this and suggested certain models. Lots of players complained about vaporizing bullets and flawed hit detection (you shoot but got killed by a player with 100 health etc). There was an overwhelming agreement about what you will have live soon. If your bullet is fired while you were still alive on the server, its damage will count (unless you are a high ping player). This is actually an example of us listening to the community and not the other way around. At first we had a too coarse approach on CTE with regards to killtrades. This was subsequently changed to the more realistic and fair model as described above.

    Thank you
  • PottyScottie
    251 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Update: 0-3 with trade kills in two games. I killed all three players first, then they killed me. Not once did i die first and then see them drop. Terrible mechanic for players who lost a 1v1. Im sticking buy my earlier posts.
  • Private_UMPalot
    4234 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Bullets disappear because you die. Who the heck would stick up for that?
  • PottyScottie
    251 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Bullets disappear because you die. Who the heck would stick up for that?

    Me. It was never a problem in any other bf but in bf4, but i guess that was a netcode issue. Now it just helps the player who lost the engagement. Also, no other games but that disaster destiny have trade kills. Theres a reason for that. Its a horrible mechanic.
  • olavafar
    1959 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Update: 0-3 with trade kills in two games. I killed all three players first, then they killed me. Not once did i die first and then see them drop. Terrible mechanic for players who lost a 1v1. Im sticking buy my earlier posts.

    Exactly how do you determine this? Because you see them drop on your client does not mean they do not see you drop on their client. You have to either see both sides simultaneously or record them to know this. Did you?
  • Private_UMPalot
    4234 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    If i get off all my bullets on target for a kill before i die, why should i not get that kill?
  • PottyScottie
    251 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Update: 0-3 with trade kills in two games. I killed all three players first, then they killed me. Not once did i die first and then see them drop. Terrible mechanic for players who lost a 1v1. Im sticking buy my earlier posts.

    Exactly how do you determine this? Because you see them drop on your client does not mean they do not see you drop on their client. You have to either see both sides simultaneously or record them to know this. Did you?

    No time was simultanesouly. These were medium range engagements where the "enemy killed" msg appeared, then i died. It was confirmed by the kill feed.
  • olavafar
    1959 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    No I do not say it is simulatneously (that is unlikely). I say you cannot know who kills who first by looking at one client. Only server 'knows' this. Kill feed may also be ordered on the client and in any case the order may not be strict and probably is not due to threading. I bet the guys you traded with are just as sure they killed you first.
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