Has 40min Frontlines lost its edge?

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herberthedgehog
235 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
edited May 2017
Since Frontlines has been reduced to a 40 minute limit of game time I've noticed some changes in the gameplay, with myself and with other players. Generally the romance has gone and it's got a lot more casual.


More games are getting completed with no contest, within 5-10 minutes, especially on Fort De Vaux. On Fort De Vaux I've noticed the losing team around their telegraph stations and A flag rather than attempt to take the objective play the game as it were domination, only interested in flanking with their Heilreigels and LMGs, not actually taking the flag. If you are on the French team you will repeatedly take A flag because the other team are too interested in exploiting the map layout for the flanking kills.


On Soissons, which has 5 flags, the game usually lasts longer but more games are dominated by one side and the losing side never comes back. If your team fails to defend B or D they 'give up' trying to defend A and E and there is then an attempt to 'alamo' the telegraph stations, usually with many players hanging back to get easy kills from a position where they can't be flanked.


On games that do last longer the time limit works against objective play after about 20 minutes. I believe players think by half-way if they've been defending their own telegraph stations all match they're definitely going to lose the game. They don't believe that even if they took some flags and progressed up field that they would accrue for the team enough points to win the game so don't bother trying, and wait to lose. There are no more heroics. There is nothing to sacrifice your KD for because you don't believe that 20 minutes is enough time to get back into the game.


Countering this lack of team play on the losing team, on the winning side it is arguably even worse at the final telegraphs because many players - myself included - don't like games ending too quickly e.g. before 20 minutes. If you are on the better team in Frontlines, rather than submit yourself too quickly to another game and the mercy of the RNG team balancer - why not string it out a bit?


So I'm getting the impression Frontline games since the 40 minute time limit was imposed are ending either really quickly and when they don't the last 20 minutes of it involves one completely dominant side struggling to take the final telegraphs because most of their team are more interested in getting kills.


Anyone else agree with my observations or have their own different ones?


To increase teamplay on Frontlines I would increase the time limit to the maximum length of an Operations game, so beyond 60 minutes. I also would give the losing team more to fight for - allow them to get a draw more easily than at present.


I would also display the current points scored (bombs defused, flags captured) somewhere so that players in the game and new players who join know what they have to achieve to win or draw the game.

Comments

  • chaotic_xXx_kiwi
    365 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Must agree I did enjoy the no time limit most matches I played were roughly 60minutes
  • Cr4zyR3dFr0g
    238 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I think it was perfect as it was with no time limit and was happy to see a mode that would play until completed by one team or the other. Made for some awesome battles when battling between a b and c flags trying to get the upper hand for that extra push to make it to the telegraphs, but now it seems too casual. May as well play conquest instead. Hope that makes sense, been awake too many hours
  • angel99pr
    9 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    I have to agree with you on everything you said about frontline but you forgot to mention the tankers that camp at the end of the maps
  • herberthedgehog
    235 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited May 2017
    angel99pr wrote: »
    I have to agree with you on everything you said about frontline but you forgot to mention the tankers that camp at the end of the maps

    For this reason we don't need more vehicles on Frontlines. The worse change Dice could make would be to keep the 40 minute limit but give the losing team more vehicles to help them fight back. That's too cheap and casual and not the gameplay I want.

    For camping vehicles, a few scouts with K-bullets and an assault with a rocket gun can take out a single tank. If the tank remains any length of time the problem is your teammates not working together.

    On Soissons Frontlines I actually like the role vehicles play even though I almost never use them. They are great strategic assets that can help with a push and an important part of the teamwork is taking them down. B and D Flags are tank graveyards.

    In my opinion Soissons is the best Frontlines map and the model for the rest that needs no changes other than, like the others, the extension of the game timer and a team score board. I wouldn't change Fort De Vaux much either. Verdun is good until you take C Flag and attack the telegraphs, when it becomes a bit of a medium-range spam fest. Rupture needs 5 flags like Soissons.
  • herag666
    107 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    I like the timelimit, but thats because i mostly dont have the time for long frontlines games, life happens and i hate leaving in the middle of a game, so 40min suits me better.
  • herberthedgehog
    235 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    herag666 wrote: »
    I like the timelimit, but thats because i mostly dont have the time for long frontlines games, life happens and i hate leaving in the middle of a game, so 40min suits me better.

    Frontlines may be popular enough to support two versions, a short 40 minute limit and an extended limit (80 minute?) version.

  • herag666
    107 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    :) That would be great, one for us working dads and one for all youngsters out there .
  • herberthedgehog
    235 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited May 2017
    Played an absolute classic of the post-40 minute limit Frontlines gameplay on Fort De Vaux tonight.

    Our team destroyed one telegraph (French A telegraph) between 15 and 20 minutes into the match. It took that long because the French team nearly always get the center B Flag from the start, and we had to get that first. After A telegraph popped quickly, the next 20-25 minutes was spent between C Flag and B telegraph.

    When we were 'attacking the B telegraph' (meant to be, most of us weren't - I am partly to blame) all most of us did was take shots at the enemy in a mid-long distance stand off. All the enemy team did was cycle around through B Flag to flank behind us and shoot us in the back before getting shot.

    That was the gameplay for about 20 minutes.

    No we didn't like getting shot in the back by the enemy team's best players (I ended 4-7 against the losing team's MVP who went 104-34 with a Huot by taking the flanking route) but it was fairly tolerable because it was good being on the winning team and there were lots of targets to shoot at.

    Neither team really cared about the objective - destroying the final telegraph or capturing C flag. This really shouldn't be how Frontlines is played. It's not how I played Frontlines before the 40 minute time limit.

    The passion must return.







  • herberthedgehog
    235 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited May 2017
    Here is my Frontlines experience on Fort De Vaux'd up this evening

    13m 57s
    8m 48s
    6m 26s
    12m 37s
    6m 43s
    37m 17s (I joined for last 5m 33s)
    12m 52s

    These games were not very good. The 37m 17s game might have been good but I rather suspect that 20-30 minutes of it involved one side half-heartedly attacking one remaining telegraph.

    Rarely had such noncompetitive rubbish before the 40 minute limit was imposed.

    I'm evening considering leaving the game mode.

    Soissons, because it has 5 flags, is holding up the best post 40 minute limit but even this map I'm experiencing more walkovers than there were before.


  • skoopsro
    308 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Hate hate hate the time limit. Sometimes fixing whats broken isnt the best solution.
  • herberthedgehog
    235 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    skoopsro wrote: »
    Hate hate hate the time limit. Sometimes fixing whats broken isnt the best solution.

    I think some time limit is inevitable and necessary for health and safety reasons. They might be worried that too many 2-3 hour games, though I played a couple and they were pretty amazing, would leave some players drooling and in epileptic spasm on the floor.

    Perhaps EA dice could remove the time limit if, after 60 minutes, and every 30 minutes after that, they flash up a warning to the player that they should take a break.

    I would say Frontlines is designed to go on longer than 40 minutes because the Tug of War is about the pushes forwards and retreats backwards of battle. With a short time limit there is push and that's it. The losing side cracks, decides it's going to lose, and each player looks after himself.

    Previously players would quit the game and new better players would come in who might help turn the game around. I'm sure that's an important reason for some of the epic comebacks I've played in.

    I would give 80 minutes a try. That's 1 hour and 20 minutes. 60 minutes would still be too short.

    The extended time gives potential for a comeback and more motivation for new joiners to make an effort.

  • misisipiRivrRat
    1004 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    About done with Frontlines. Like someone above , played some very short rounds today. 3 rounds total of around 20-25 minutes. Yeah some of the rounds before could get long but I preferred those over these short rounds which seem like a waste of time.
  • MrJayPee71
    209 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    skoopsro wrote: »
    Hate hate hate the time limit. Sometimes fixing whats broken isnt the best solution.

    I think some time limit is inevitable and necessary for health and safety reasons. They might be worried that too many 2-3 hour games, though I played a couple and they were pretty amazing, would leave some players drooling and in epileptic spasm on the floor.

    Perhaps EA dice could remove the time limit if, after 60 minutes, and every 30 minutes after that, they flash up a warning to the player that they should take a break.

    I would say Frontlines is designed to go on longer than 40 minutes because the Tug of War is about the pushes forwards and retreats backwards of battle. With a short time limit there is push and that's it. The losing side cracks, decides it's going to lose, and each player looks after himself.

    Previously players would quit the game and new better players would come in who might help turn the game around. I'm sure that's an important reason for some of the epic comebacks I've played in.

    I would give 80 minutes a try. That's 1 hour and 20 minutes. 60 minutes would still be too short.

    The extended time gives potential for a comeback and more motivation for new joiners to make an effort.

    I remember hearing that FL was actually designed to be time boxed and that the reason it wasn't was a bug, dice couldn't get data on such long games. Might have been Westie?
    Turns out that this bug has uncovered a gem in my opinion, a good mistake. FL-Epic mode and FL-Lite options would be great.

    Wife and kids gone out? You can 'settle down'.
    Just got an hour? Easy.

    If the epic mode was brought back, I suspect it could be more popular.
  • McBaffel
    678 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    skoopsro wrote: »
    Hate hate hate the time limit. Sometimes fixing whats broken isnt the best solution.

    I think some time limit is inevitable and necessary for health and safety reasons. They might be worried that too many 2-3 hour games, though I played a couple and they were pretty amazing, would leave some players drooling and in epileptic spasm on the floor.

    Perhaps EA dice could remove the time limit if, after 60 minutes, and every 30 minutes after that, they flash up a warning to the player that they should take a break.

    I would say Frontlines is designed to go on longer than 40 minutes because the Tug of War is about the pushes forwards and retreats backwards of battle. With a short time limit there is push and that's it. The losing side cracks, decides it's going to lose, and each player looks after himself.

    Previously players would quit the game and new better players would come in who might help turn the game around. I'm sure that's an important reason for some of the epic comebacks I've played in.

    I would give 80 minutes a try. That's 1 hour and 20 minutes. 60 minutes would still be too short.

    The extended time gives potential for a comeback and more motivation for new joiners to make an effort.

    Yes I do like a mechanic that makes the game less forgiving when time goes by. (More creeps in a creepwave in moba's)
    I dislile a hard timer. It's unnatural and stupid. Yesterday we won a match where we where on the defznsive the e'tire time to then only push past 1 objective and win due to timer. Feels cheap. It really didn't feel like a comeback.

    Or just like it was without a timer but have a surrendervote button available after 40minutes of gameplay.
  • herberthedgehog
    235 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    JayPeee71 wrote: »
    I remember hearing that FL was actually designed to be time boxed and that the reason it wasn't was a bug, dice couldn't get data on such long games. Might have been Westie?
    Turns out that this bug has uncovered a gem in my opinion, a good mistake. FL-Epic mode and FL-Lite options would be great.

    Wife and kids gone out? You can 'settle down'.
    Just got an hour? Easy.

    If the epic mode was brought back, I suspect it could be more popular.

    They can get data on games that last as long as Operations that exceed 60 minutes. Perhaps they can set the timer to 80 minutes, which might be around the time of the longest Operations match.




  • herberthedgehog
    235 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    McBaffel wrote: »
    I dislile a hard timer. It's unnatural and stupid. Yesterday we won a match where we where on the defznsive the e'tire time to then only push past 1 objective and win due to timer. Feels cheap. It really didn't feel like a comeback.

    Or just like it was without a timer but have a surrendervote button available after 40minutes of gameplay.

    I agree. Winning the game on points is stupid when there is no points scoreboard to let the players know what the current score is.

    Not sure about the surrender vote button. It is an interesting idea. It would have to be available only after some time, e.g. 40 minutes, if it's available before then it will be abused by players on the losing team. The matches may never go to the epic climax, when the final telegraph gets destroyed. That would be really annoying for the winning team, especially if the number of votes required to surrender was reached by new players joining the game pressing the button.

    I agree they need to tinker with the victory conditions.

    If no telegraphs get destroyed the game should be drawn, no matter how many flags are captured or defended. That will provide more motivation for both sides to defend and attack.

    Then if the final telegraph is not destroyed then similar to Operations the winning team should only get a 'tactical victory' rather than a 'complete victory'.

  • Judson-Emc2
    406 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Love the time limit. I'm not interested in playing a game that no one wants to win so they can pad stats.

    Time limit is the best thing to happen to front lines. If players want to pad stats go play hardcore.
  • McBaffel
    678 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Love the time limit. I'm not interested in playing a game that no one wants to win so they can pad stats.

    Time limit is the best thing to happen to front lines. If players want to pad stats go play hardcore.

    Not everyone who liked the long games are stats padders.
    I liked them because I dislike the 'artificial' win/loss due to a hard timer.

    What's your opinion on soft 'enrage' timers?
  • herberthedgehog
    235 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Love the time limit. I'm not interested in playing a game that no one wants to win so they can pad stats.

    Time limit is the best thing to happen to front lines. If players want to pad stats go play hardcore.

    In what way did the long game or Frontlines game mode at any length 'pad stats'?

    Anyone who's played it can tell you the KDs can get horrendous. It can get very intense with lots of grenade spam.

    If any stat padding occurs it is due to the short game where non-contest situations means bored players simply decide to do their own thing.


  • Pedersen2k3k
    147 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Stopped playing Frontlines because of tanks.
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